Nofretete
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@Dianna Wilson @vasilievich It is not watching porn, because that would be HARAM........it is not having arguments, so it is easier to insult others!
@vasilievich @ummabdulla Ja, dann bin ich halt Uebermensch Du dummer dummer Mensch!
@ummabdulla @freedomlover Ok, I am rude.........fine, I give it up. You all are right, I am wrong. I never complained about your username, you also reply to things I never said. It is not only your username, this is the name you proudly carry in daily life, because it involves the name of your oldest son. I just said, I didn't want to be called by the name of my oldest son.......because I have a name of my own, you also tell us what you do like or don't like, but if YOU (not only you) do it, it is ok!.........I didn't say YOU yourself are so proud of the achievments (which I described as skycrapers).........the nationals of the Gulf countries are, so I am going on being rude..........as some seldom stupid people here (again not you). No better, I keep silent,
@vasilievich I don't, i never did!
@vasilievich You see, was that so hard to do? No rantings, no name callings, just simple facts!
@vasilievich I am not your babe, Dude!
@vasilievich If you don't want to respect me, fine......but don't claim you are such a good moslem, who respects women more than any other.
@ummabdulla @Dianna Wilson i am sorry, if I fell into sterotypes also. Yes, you might be right,but seem we all are not free of them. But nothing else, I tried to say here, that there is no country in this world which is free of wrong doings. And, of course it is your good right to defend your lifestyle, your country, your believes. And if you are able to admitt, that all that awful things happen, I am fine with it. The only thing, which makes me sick here, and I don't say, you did so, is, that constant denying of some facts. I have been to poor countries like Egypt, Sudan, Jordan aso, I worked for constitutions which helped to improve life of the poor girls with no voice. This report was about the ME, so why do we mention America all the time? I don't know about America, and I am sure a lot of awful things happen there also. Ok, stereotypes are awful and shouldn't be made by people, never have been to the countries they talk about, just from hearing. This is of no help for this little ones, who live under conditions, I hardly can bear to talk about. And when ever I complained, I was accused of being just a Islamphobic, which I never was, and never will be. I also love the ME, its culture, some of its people, even here at the Gulf region I hardly get a smile from Nationals. I worked also as a tour guide, I learned about culture, about religion, some of the language, to give a good impression to my fellow people from Europe, and get rid of their stereotypes. But never the less, totally neglecting (again, not you) is driving me crazy and furious. As well, as the so called good moslem, who is calling other by the most awful names, insulting them.........back to steriotypes about muslim men!
@vasilievich @freedomlover According to your behaviour here, you would call here a d...lover, I really would like to go down to your level, but I will not!
@vasilievich Here we go again, I am not an American, and no country belongs to me or you. Behave yourself!!! You, who don't live in the ME, while I do........why you behave like a slumdog? Did I call you names? No, I didn't, because I don't know you, well I got an impression meanwhile. And do you think you do any good to Islam, to muslim men, by insulting a women here, which you claim to respect so much?
@vasilievich @AbdulKeddou Oh, oh you should leave America as soon as possible, why are you still there? You are already very familiar with that bad bad Americans language........
@ummabdulla @Dianna Wilson Dear Ummabdallah (I wonder what YOUR name is, as I always have been bothered by the idea, just to be called on the name of my eldest son, because I am only worth something if I am 1. a virgin, 2. a mother of a son). So, you live in heaven in Kuwait, you are a educated woman of the ME, I don't doubt it at all. Life is safe there, almost no criminal acts, not like in America, as you don't forget to mention, and I agree with you.......awful things happen everywhere, every day, and nobody, I repeat, nobody has to fingerpoint on others. So you ask Dianna, if she wouldn't like someone to marry her children to make them happy.You apply automatically, that the "islamic" lifestyle makes everybody happy, while the western lifestyle doesn't. Why I mention this? Because just some statements earlier you replied: If a woman behaves like the way it was mentioned (being promiskuous, going out, drinking), you wouldn't allow your sons to marry this girl and raise YOUR grandchildren.........no no, you aren't hypocrat at all, not like the Americans, not like the Europeans. You are as well convinced,YOUR lifestyle is the right one for EVERYONE!!! And don't you blame me, of not having spoken to Arabic women............, I am living day out day in, with them.....and yes, life is sooooooooo perfect here. No drinking, no prostitution, just heaven.......sisterhood, oh yes I forgot to mention. But only, if you belong to the "right"society. Don't you think of that tousands of maids from India or the Philippines, their passports are taken from them, they are not missused in a lot of families. They do the dirty work for the well educated Arabs, or do you want to tell me, that one National is standig out in the sun to build the skycrapers, that you are ooooooh so proud of? The same happens in America with the African Americans or Latinos, as well in Europe to the immigrants from so called "third world",but all of you dare to fingerpoint at each other....I am really a peaceloving person, and I always try to find a middle way, a way of communication, but this fingerpointing here, makes me sick meanwhile. And dear Arabs, you are spoiled by the American way of life, without even knowing it, look at all the fat children, who don't want to move anymore,and they don't have to because of all the maids, bodies built by Mc....,Kentucky, Pizza Hut aso....Stop blaming each other, it is enough now!
you don't have to convince me of anything. you like to believe that women are surpressed in my culture, i assume (maybe I am wrong), in the ME culture. yes i agree with you, having to wear the newest fashion is a kind of being opressed and stress put upon women, who let to do it with themselves, but also only, if i let it happen. and even here women are wearing all black abayas, like a uniform, i see most women wearing pounds of make up, wearing the highest high heels i can imagine, see them going shopping all the time for the newest fashion (some of them i could never afford to buy, even if i would like to), dragging perfume around them, that sometimes i almost am not able to breath and it is a kind of molesting. and yes, there is no national law in sa, which applies abaya and hijjab on them, but do you dare, especially in riad, the mutawwa will beat the shit out of you. and why always women have the feeling they are only seen as sexual objects? shouldn't the young princes be educated, that they are not, no matter what they wear? so it seems to be women there are only feeling safe when covered, so you do tell me, they are respected? and even then, back in egypt, almost every women has been molested, no matter, if she is wearing clothes according to islamic rules, or, of course no wonder, you would say, if she is wearing a short skirt. and also you tell me, you know a lot of women, who are wearing niqab, and pressure is put on them, because of doing so? why? isn't it their own choice? what ever way around, every women should do, behave, live, wear what ever way she wants to, not be seen only as a sexual object (did you consider some like it?, because this is the game, sincel humans excist?), and what ever you say, if i have to put something in front of my face, it is sad. nobody will see, if i am sad or angry, in some cases you can't even see their eyes. but i still think all this is about all this little girls, who got no voice, are misstreated, are not given their basic rights, molested, tortured, where ever it is.
Oh, and what I forgot is, to mention that backwards means, back to the roots. Isn't that what some people want? Back to the "real" Islam?
Ummabdallah. I didn't say, that being dressed modest ist going backwards. I got nothing against headscarfs, if they are worn free willingly and out of respect for the religion. But only if it is done to please others, I am against it. And, please, don't tell me, it doesn't happen. I never said also, that taking off as many clothes as possible is the thing to do. But, if it is anybodies choice, who am I to judge it? But, what makes me sick to the bones is, sorry, I know, it is not on me to critisice this either, because I am not a decent Muslim woman, is this, what seems to be "up to date" now, wearing niqabs. How in heavens name, can a woman really want this? You be covered from head to toe, I really don't care, but your face is your identity.......and it is not mentioned anywhere to rob womens identity. To make them all look alike. I am living in the Golf region now, and the all look the same, no faces, black, black where I look. Sorry, it is not backwards, it is just sad
@electriclady281 @LyndawithaY @Dianna Wilson @Abdul Ameer To Electriclady, I find it very refreshing to find a voice here, that tries to find a balance. As you, I lived a long time in Egypt and the Golf region, and I saw this things, which have been discribed in that article with my own eyes, but I also faced desent fine people, who got nothing to do with what was reported here. It is like everywhere else, bad and good things occure. But, we also can't deny, that things are drifting backwards somehow. When I came to Cairo, not so many veilled women could be seen, than they started to wear headscarfs in a modern way, and now......abayas and even niqabs.Isn't it also a result of the West calling the ME backwards, wanted them to be, like us? But I could face it here, in that discussion, that everybody, if attacked, tries to defend where he or she came from, is it religon, culture or country. Isn't that human? And even the fine Americans here, defend their country to their last breath, even, if, as a person out of "old Europe", as we have been called by the Americans (whom often forgot, where they came from, and what in their country happened and still happens), we show them some wrong doing in their country, we should shut up. Yes somehow we should, because we have our own problems to solve.Everybody is pointing fingers here, but how the bible says: Who is without failure, should throw the first stone. No, no I don't mean we have to be silent against inhumanity, not at all, we shold name it, but not by fingerpointing at the others. This article was about the ME, next time we should hear from South Asia, Europe, America, because there is not one country in this world, who people are not misstreated. I wish I could make myself more clear here, but English isn't my mothertongue, so I got difficulties here. But, I really wish, this name calling, calling each others liars, stating facts, even some people have never been to the ME, would end. This is the scource, why we all face problems here on Mother Earth, because EVERYBODY thinks, he is superior against others, no you are not! Me neither!
There is hope!
@FreedomToobe I believe you, that wearing a headscarf and maybe a hijab is your own choice. And I fully agree with you, if it is someones own choice, than it is a expression of faith and self-respect. But as well, I should have the freedom, dear sister, to expose my body to a certain extend, if I wish to do so, and not be critisied as well for it. As well, as a lot of Western people (especially women) believe, that all that poor covered women are supressed, a lot of Moslem women think the same about the poor blonde, half naked ones. But most women don't have a real choice. Where is the choice in Saudi Arabia for example? Do you dare to wear a jeans and t shirt in puplic, because it is YOUR own choice....the mutawwa will beat the shit out of you, and even put you to prison. I never heard about a man being beaten, because he wore a jeans there. Or where is the freedom in the West, if as a woman I want to be like Angelina or as thin as Victoria Beckham? If I wear a size 14, people look at me, as if I am from Mars. We got no freedom, wether in private, nore in social life. And the worst of it all, some of this things are done from woman to another woman. I live 20 years now in the Middle East, and yes I have been harrassed by Arab men, but what bothered me as well, was the hatred looks I got from women. They hide behind their niqabs and if they could they would spit into my face. Why? I don't know, because I am less worth than they are, because I am not wearing what they are wearing "free willingly"?
Oh my God (or Allah, as you wish). I followed this chat now for a while and I got the impression it got totally out of hands. Well, on the other hand, it reflects, what is the real problem humankind is facing. Treaths, calling names, calling liars, trying to proove, everybody is wrong, but not me, my religion is the best, your's crap and all a lie. Mohamed said this and Jesus said that.....
It is not the point, well ok, it is somehow, but....does anyone here care about those millions of poor girls suffering everyday, having no voice? Being misstreated.......in some countries more, in some less. And all that hypocrates, the worst of them women, saying, all that, what was mentioned here is just lies invented by the Western media, because they are lucky enough to grew up in a social healthy, well educated family, personally never had to face such inustice. Please, don't deny what is happening. I lived long enough in the ME (20 years now) to see what is done in the name of religion, and also, that Arab women stand up here and there. It doesn't help anybody if we call each other names, so stop it! And excuse my poor English, not that someone wants to complain about that, I expect meanwhile anything here! Oh, and before you accuse me of having no solution either, right, I don't have, but I work for a society doing campaigns against female cirumcision (in Egypt also practiced by the Christian population, btw)!
Applause! True!