Abdul Ameer
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@arvay @Alice In Neverland @Fulano de Tal The problem is that people have different rules of evidence. For many people, it is sufficient evidence if someone comes out of a cave and says that he just spoke with the archangel Gabriel who conveyed Allah's literal words. Other people reject such nonsense as evidence.
@arvay I have never run into a "progressive" who wants to wipe Islam out. In my experience, they want to wipe out only Christianity and Judaism.
@Alice In Neverland Apparently, you really detest " fascist , nazist and extremists" and you are willing to discriminate against them on the basis of their beliefs. So, you agree that it is o.k. to discriminate against people on the basis of their beliefs. Well, that is precisely what the argument I was making. You just want to exempt Moslems from that rule. For you, it is not o.k. to discriminate against Moslems because of their beliefs, but it is o.k. to discriminate against fascists and Nazis and "extremists". On what basis do you decide whom it is o.k. to discriminate against???
@Alice In Neverland OMG, indeed, what are you even doing on this site? Of course it is o.k. to discriminate against certain people. It is definitely O.K. to discriminate on the basis of their values. Which planet do you live on if you think we have to be tolerant of values that contradict ours? Are you tolerant of Nazis? Racists? Are you tolerant of people who believe they should fight and kill other people because of the other ones don't believe in Allah and Muhammad?
I never said that all Muslims are evil. You are lying, as usual. What I said was that Islamic sacred doctrines are evil. There are many, many Moslems who do not follow those evil doctrines.
And I never said that Islam is the root of anti-Semitism. You are making that up. What I said is that the sacred doctrines of Islam are inherently anti-semitic because the Koran and Muhammad commanded Moslems to make war against the Jews and either subjugate them or kill them. Moslems are obviously not the only anti-Semites.
And, yes, the word "anti-Semitism" does refer only to Jews and not to Semites. That is the way the word has been used ever since 1879 when it was invented by a German Jew-hater who though that it was just not genteel enough to say that he hated Jews.
Apparently you have a problem reading and understanding English. I did not say that Jews, as individuals, are special. I said that the Jewish people is special, and I gave the objective reasons for that. History confirms it. As individuals, Jews are to be judged by the same standards as everyone else.
@arvay In fact, the global progressive movement strives to eliminate only Christianity and Judaism. They protect Islam.
@Fulano de Tal @Alice In Neverland Surely you are aware of what the Moslem religious establishment did to Taha.
@arvay @HacimObmed @Alice In Neverland Actually, Israel would much prefer NOT to be surrounded by its Moslem enemies. Better you should ask yourself why the Moslem countries hate Israel and want to see it eradicated? You will find the answer in the Hamad Charter.
1) For your information, the word "anti-Semitism" does NOT refer tgo "Semites". It refers only to Jews. Look it up in any dictionary.
2) In fact, only the Moslem apologists like yourself talk about "all Moslems", just like you do here. You folks are the ones who generalie when you say that 1.5 billion Moslems are offended, for example, when someone somewhere makes fun of Muhammad or desecrates the Koran.
3) It is perfectly legitimate to discriminate against people because of their beliefs. Just like it is legitimate to discriminate against white racists and Nazis and communists because of their beliefs, so it is legitimate to discriminate against Moslems because of their beliefs. Beliefs represent values, and if those values are in conflict with our values, we SHOULD discriminate against them.
4) You are lying when try to present Islamic extremism as the fault of "2-3 idiots". There are hundreds of millions of Moslems who believe that Islam should eventually conquer the world and be "victorious over all other religions" just like the Koran and Muhammad command. There are hundreds of millions of Moslems who still support Bin Laden and Al Qaeda. There are hundreds of millions of Moslems who want to criminalize any criticism of Islam or insults to the Koran, Muhammad or Moslems. Certainly, not all 1.5 billion Moslems believe this, but hundreds of millions of them do. That has been proven by reputable surveys of attitudes in the Moslem world.
5) The Jewish people ARE special: they are singled out by the Koran and Muhammad for special hatred and enmity. They are also special because, in terms of their numbers, they have contributed more to the development of human culture than any other people. They make up about one-half of one percent of the world's population, but they have won over 20% of the Nobel Prizes. That sounds special to me. The Jewish people came up with the Torah (Old Testament) which is revered by the entire Christian world. That is special, too. This does not mean that Jews should enjoy special privileges; not at all. But, they should enjoy the same rights that other people enjoy, and the doctrines of Islam prohibit that.
6) Moslem extremists are only those Moslems who follow the sacred doctrines of Islam as set forth in the Koran and the Muhammad's Sunna and sharia law which is based on them. You are right the Moslem "extremists" hate women, too. They also hate Christians and homosexuals and other non-Moslems, in addition to hating Jews. Their hatred is based on specific verses from the Koran.
@Alice In Neverland Only an anti-Semite could make a statement like you did. In fact, the Moslem extremists are the ones who never tire of saying that everyone hates the Jews. And, they do this in order to justify their own hatred of Jews.
@Alice In Neverland No, it is not the same thing at all. For an excellent informed comparison of the Torah and the Koran (sharia), see:
http://www.newenglishreview.org/custpage.cfm/frm/48541/sec_id/48541
Halacha, Sharia and the Religious Acceptance of Constitutional Governance by Rabbi Jon Hausman.
There is nothing in the Torah commanding Jews to make war on non-Jews until Judaism reigns supreme in the world. The Koran commands Moslems to make war on non-Moslems until Islam reigns supreme in the world.
– Make war on them until idolatry shall cease and God’s religion shall reign supreme. 8:40
– Fight against them until idolatry is no more and God’s religion reigns supreme. 2:193
There is just nothing like this in the Torah.
Also, the Torah and the rabbis command Jews to obey the law of the land. Sharia law says that Islamic law is higher than the law of the land and that Moslems must strive to overthrow the existing law and replace it with sharia law.
Check out that article above by Rabbi Jon Hausman.
@arvay @novaculus Why pick on Islam? Because Islam alone is dangerous to those who refuse to accept their beliefs and their domination. Of the various religions, including the Catholic Church, only Islam has core doctrines requiring believers to make war on non-believers and either kill them or subjugate them to Islamic law.
"So, should we apologize? Did we get the Brotherhood wrong? Not really."
Yes, really!
There was never any secret about the goals of the Muslim Brotherhood. Their credo, ever since their founding 84 years ago, has been: "Allah is our purpose, Muhammad is our leader, the Koran is our law, jihad is our way, and dying for Allah is our highest hope."
If the Koran is their law, there is no room in their program for democracy and man-made law except as a means to attain power.
The Muslim Brotherhood's program for America, also known many years before the "Arab Spring" is: "The Ikhwan (the Muslim Brotherhood) must understand that their work in America is a kind of grand jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within and 'sabotaging' its miserable house by their hands and the hands of the unbelievers so that it is eliminated and God's (Allah's) religion is made victorious over all other religions."
The still revered founder of the Muslim Brotherhood, teacher and cleric Hasan al-Banna who founded the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt in 1928 said: "It is the nature of Islam to dominate, not to be dominated, to impose its law on all nations and to extend its power to the entire planet."
If Marc Lynch did not know this about the Muslim Brotherhood, he should definitely apologize for his inexcusable ignorance.
@schneibster If you knew anything at all about Islam, you would know that a Muslim is a person who professes that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is His messenger. Race, color, ethnicity have absolutely nothing to do with being Muslim.
@schneibster Muslims are "brown people"??? You are out of your mind.
@amanydahab Are you really saying that what the Koran says "is not the fundamentals of Islam"??? In a Moslem country, you could lose your head for such blasphemy!
@amanydahab So glad you asked the question about slavery! Moslems kidnapped and enslaved far more Africans than the Europeans did, but they brought the slaves to the Arabia lands, not to America. In the Koran, Allah has nothing against slavery, and if Allah allows it, human beings have no right to prohibit it.
@schneibster If the two look the same to you, it is because you are ignorant of both. At night, all cats are black.
@schneibster Who are you to say that the most respected Islamic religious authorities are lying about Islam? Do you really know more about Islam than they do?
@amanydahab If you see no conflict between Islam and our modern thoughts, it is because you haven't bothered to look. The entire Moslem religious establishment sees the conflict. This conflict is perhaps most clearly expressed in the Cairo Declaration of Human Rights in Islam which all Moslem-majority countries have signed on to because they cannot accept our Universal Declaration of Human Rights. You should Google the texts of both Declarations and compare them.
@schneibster Again, please tell us just what race Moslems are?