sv hayter
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@happygolucky10 "And, of course, the example of the anti-woman policies and attitudes of the all-male Catholic hierarchy come immediately to mind."
Yeah, just one example, took Vatican decades to deal with pedophiles in the priestly ranks, but just six weeks to excommunicate an Argentine bishop who had the gall to ordain women as priests.
@FundaMentalist If religion is codified into laws you are forcing that religious belief on people. And yes, you did say all those things. Read your own comments. Nice try at backpedaling though. Bye now.
@FundaMentalist Explaining your proof that the Koran is the true word of God would take too long? How convenient. How do you know people in the west have the highest prevalence of emotional problems? Human condition, pal. But you've just self-identified with fundamentalist Bible Belt yokels, which means discussing this further is a waste of time and bandwidth.
@FundaMentalist How many people were shot during the Occupy protests, many of which were not officially sanctioned? Some people were roughed up, but nobody was subjected to a virginity test. Subsequently denounced? A little late.
@FundaMentalist So you believe the Koran is the true word of God because other people (mortal, flawed people) told you so? In a comment, you claimed to know that the vast majority of Muslims follow islam as you perceive it. That's not my experience at all. Interpretation varies from country to country, town to town, house to house, in my experience. The mistreatment of women pre-dates colonialism and post-colonial culture (although colonialism contributed to modern dictatorship). It is worldwide but at its worst in countries underpinned by theocracy. When governments use religion to gain, keep and grow its power, the cheapest and easiest way to do this is by the mistreatment of women. It doesn't matter what the religion is. It is simply wrong to impose religious belief of any kind on people, who derive their rights from the Creator, not from anyone else.
@FundaMentalist I do know about Islamic scientific achievements hundreds of years ago. I already said so. Do you read my replies?
@FundaMentalist Logic and rationale? Seriously? Aren't you the guy who cited scientific achievements under Islamic rule? Science is about proof. Religion is about faith. And hey buddy, all people everywhere have problems. It's the human condition. You solve one, another pops up. That's life. It's laughable to say people in the mideast have fewer problems than people in the west or anywhere.
@FundaMentalist @watchingcable @FahdHassanein Fundie, you still haven't answered my question: How do YOU know the Koran is the word of God? Funny, you sound just like those yokels in the bible belt who insist the Bible is the true word of God.
@FundaMentalist What utter bullshit. Seriously? Police brutality stinks everywhere, but I have protested many times, never been shot at, never subjected to a virginity test.
@FundaMentalist There are over a billion Muslims in the world. You claim to know what the vast majority believes? Religion can be codified by government? You want politicians handling your spiritual affairs do you? Or mullahs? Which mullahs? Are you willing to sign away your right to think for yourself to a bunch of mortal men of varying degrees of enlightenment and spirituality (or lack thereof)? When governments use Islam or any religion as a tool of power you end up with the mistreatment of women, as in Iran, as under the Taliban in Afghanistan, as in Salem, Massachusetts in the 17th century, as under the Inquisition, etc. Reason is for the public sphere. Religion is a personal matter between you and your God. The Islam I've encountered in my travels has been tolerant, open-minded and forward-thinking (granted, as a western women, I attract the liberals), but I've seen too much of the other side too, especially among so-called authorities, political and religious, to do anything but shudder when I hear those theocratic rumblings.
@FahdHassanein You're putting yet more words in my mouth. Find another straw man.eligious laws. In one breath you deny he used religion and in the next you talk about those who gave him what he wanted in the name of religion. Can't talk to you any more.
@FundaMentalist LOL. Not true. I've made up my own mind after decades of travel, living in different countries, reading, talking to people, and experiencing unencumbered by religious authorities. Hip and cool? Thanks for the nickel's worth of psychoanalysis.
@FundaMentalist "It teaches people not to worship their egos and desires but sublimate over them.":I'd say it takes a helluva lot of ego to claim you know what is the true word of God. And too much sublimation makes you a prime candidate to get conned. Think for yourself.
@FundaMentalist I'm not American. And what an easy accusation.. "you misunderstand." Back it up with some facts, buddy, or get out of the way. The Koran and all religious texts I've read contain plenty of nonsense as well as wisdom. We were given brains to think for ourselves. The West needs Islam? The west and the whole world need reason instead of religion based not on fact but on faith. Faith is a personal thing. I'm not inclined to take seriously anyone who claims with such certainty any religious book is the true word of God. The truth is, when it comes to God, we're all just guessing. Anyone who tells you otherwise is a fool or a conman. Which are you?
@FahdHassanein You are putting a lot of words in my mouth that I didn't say. Read my other comments. I was in Egypt under Mubarak, and while ostensibly quasi-secular, he DID use religion as a tool of power, when convenient, to appease the religious, to divide and control people. Assad...well, religious dictators aren't the only assholes in the world. I don't like dictators, religious or otherwise.
@FundaMentalist @manmadethinker Fundie, now you're stereotyping western women as well as Arab women.
@DianeA @LiveFreeorKickButt @watchingcable @FundaMentalist I don't like the objectification of women, and sexualizing children is unconscionable. But these images of women are not delivered by government. We also see doctors, politicians, comedians, journalists, more pundits than I could count, etc. When we protest objectification, or government, we are unlikely to get shot in the streets or molested to determine our virginity.
@Fenrir_Lokison @sasss31 Who said secular countries are perfect? Far from it. But at least we don't have government dictating what we should believe and performing virginity tests on activists.
@FundaMentalist @DianeA @watchingcable Okay, Fundie, I agree with you here. We have laws against people walking naked in the streets. Big difference between that and Saudi Arabia. But yes, looking at it broadly, we do have a dress code in the west.
@SallyCarmen @FundaMentalist @sasss31 It isn't Islam Sally, it's how religion is interpreted and imposed to control people and exploit them. Show me a religious text that doesn't contain just as much wisdom and nonsense as the Koran? It should be said that one of the reasons authorities have been able to do this in the mideast is because of colonialism and post-colonial support of dictators by the west. We are still paying for what the west did to Mossadegh in iran. Iranians have paid a far more bloody price than we have, however.