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@simplulo @adaptune "Russia was able to invade Ukraine only because in the early 1990s the US persuaded Ukraine to give up its nukes in exchange for security guarantees, formalized in the Budapest Memorandum, signed by the US, UK, Russia, and Ukraine. Russia is now in blatant violation, sending a clear signal to other nuclear powers (e.g. Pakistan, Iran, and North Korea) never to repeat Ukraine's mistake. "
1. The Budapest Memorandum was never formalized as the Urkaine never ratified it
2. Russia did not invade the Ukraine. Under the1997 treaty, they are allowed up to 25,000 troops in Crimea
3. Nukes would not have changed tat fact
4. Crimea has wanted to break way from the Ukraine and join Russia for 23 years.
"Russia is now in blatant violation, sending a clear signal to other nuclear powers (e.g. Pakistan, Iran, and North Korea) never to repeat Ukraine's mistake. "
Oh give us a break. The US did that when it invaded Iraq and not North Korea. It also did that by punishing Iran for NOT having nukes.
"Russia is not behaving like a responsible permanent member of the UN Security Council"
What was responsible about attacking and invading Iraq based on lies? What about bombing Somalia and Yemen with drones? Responsible behaviour?
5 months, 1 week ago on Ron Paul Gets It Wrong When He Speaks about Secession and Crimea
Great comment Nik.
It's no surprise that no one in the US media is reporting on the discussion between Ashton and the Estonian foreign minister, just like they are trying desperately to ignore the fact that the Maidan coup was made possible by the Right Sector and Svoboda Neo Nazis.
What they are also refusing to report on is that there is a split developing in the regime between the Maidan and the extremists, with the facists threatening the interior ministry while the regime is taking out the neo Nazis now that they no longer have any use for them.
" Hey, Alexander, buddy, in WHAT circumstances would the majority of Crimeans EVER vote to stay with Ukraine? "
Bingo!! They have been voicing their desire to split from the Ukraine for 23 years and join Russia, but neocon ignoramuses like McCobin claim that the referendum was an anomaly due to the presence of Russian forces.
One has to wonder what qualities necons at the SEI and other like minded necon think tanks revere most - stupidity, ignorance or downright dishonesty.
@simplulo @tdebruin73 @Ajsoti @JustinRaimondo @amccobin @sfliberty "Even if 99% of a population "decides" (e.g. checks one of two blocks on the Crimean referendum) to secede, 1% did not, and they have rights as well."
That has nothing to do with individual rights. There is no evidence that the rights of teh tartars and Ukrainians have been violated. In fact, most of the Ukrainian forces in Crimea defected and accepted Russian passports.
"There is a proper process for pursuing secession, and the Crimean referendum wasn't it."
There in only one process - a referendum, not some imaginary process that has never been applied.
@tdebruin73 @Ajsoti @JustinRaimondo @amccobin @sfliberty
I am not the one making any argument from a libertarian perspective, I am pointing out the hypocrisy of those who are.
"Just look at how the EU would feel if some country decided enough is enough, we're out."
The EU is pretty much a fascist union.
@simplulo @Shingo @Ajsoti @JustinRaimondo @amccobin @sfliberty
This was not a snap referendum - it was one of a number of plebicites Crimea has held which revealed their desire to split from the Ukraine and join Russia. Until now, Russia has rebuffed those requests to maintain good relations with Kiev, but when the neo Nazi regime illegally came to power, Putin was forced to act.
There is nothing illegitimate about the referendum, regardless fo what Obama says.
"There is another principle here, far more important: Russia's signing of the Budapest Memorandum. "
Not really. First fo all, the US already violated it by financing opposition groups and promoting regime change. And in any case, Ukraine never ratified the BP, so it's not legally binding anyway.
And please, spare us the hand wronging over never trusting Russia again. The US is has polled consistently for over a decade as the biggest threat to world peace. This was another manufactured crisis financed by Washington and pretty much everyone outside the US can see that.
And the argument that nukes would have prevented Russia's actions is a canard. Nukes are useless, especially given that Russia has a thousand of them.
"Russia's irresponsible behavior is not fitting of a permanent member of the UN Security Council."
America's is far worse. They destroyed Iraq on a false pretext and killed hundreds of thousands. You're hypocrisy is mind boggling.
@simplulo @Shingo Wrong simplulo,
They were destroying government buildings, thorwing molotov cocktails and their snipers were killing people. It was the neo Nazi fascists who brought violence to the demonstrations and even now, they are already killing one another.
And yes it was a coup. A democratically elected leader was overthrown by violence and intimidation.
"If Yanukovich really had support, he wouldn't have fled to Russia. "
False. It has been revealed that Neuland and the other neocons at teh State Department had threatened the Oligarchs that they would be personally targeted with sanctions if the government met violent demonstrations with violence of their own. The oligarchs pull the strings in the Ukraine and pressured the police and defence forces to step down.
Those same Oligarchs are still in power BTW.
The reason the new regime is unlikely to reduce corruption is because the same people have remained in power. All they did was remove a figurehead.
@simplulo @AlbertoDietz "Mine was that the Ukrainian people were justified in their revolution against Yanukovich and his cronies."
You keep insisting that the minority of Ukraine's population represented by the demonstrators are the "Ukrainian people".
@simplulo "The Ukrainian people were completely justified in overthrowing Yanukovich in the manner that they did"
Who are you calling "the Ukrainian people"? The polls showed that those demonstrating represented the same block that lost the election. So according to you, it's legitimate to take to carry out a coup if your side loses?
"Although I agree with him being overthrown, I suspect most of Crimea did not."
Why did you agree with him being overthrown as opposed to being voted out of office in elections?
@oppa_fx @PanAmPost "BTW just looked at the comment below the article and you can see EXACTLY what the writers of the article talk about"
Yes, the comments below expose the self professed libertarian as a neocon. He's so obvious it's painful.
@xtropx "Make no mistake about it, Crimea was annexed by Russian military force at gunpoint"
False. There was no annexation at gunpoint. Crimea have been wanting to join Russia for 23 years.
@IlushenkaXrushenka "AND ALL JOURNALISTS THAT TRYING TO COVER REFERENDUM GET BEATEN, THEIR CAMERAS GET BROKEN OR THEY GET KIDNAPED."
That's odd. I was watching the whole thing on CNN and no reporter was beaten or had their cameras broken - nor were they kidnapped.
@bennash "This is a separate debate from Russia annexing with Force."
Russia did nto annex with force. In fact, they didn't annex until after Crimea voted for independence. Russia did not use force. Not a single bullet was fired.
"People coming together to VOTE to secede from Ukraine is unconstitutional and constitutes an international crisis. "
So what? The secession of Kosovo was not in line with Serbia's constitution. The suggestion that breakaway territories need permission to gain independence is absurd.
And the ICJ ruled in 2010 that the right to secede is a legal right, regardless of the local constitution.
"Yanukovich resigned and fled."
That's funny . Yanukovich said he did not resign and the illegitimate putchists say they fired him.
They can't all be true,
@EMHenriksson @Ajsoti @JustinRaimondo @amccobin @sfliberty "OSCE, UN, UNSC, multiple countries have all said RU actions breach law & internat treaties"
The UNSC has said no such thing, and it can't because Russia is there to veto any such resolution.
In fact, neither has the UN. Try again.
@EMHenriksson @Ajsoti @JustinRaimondo @amccobin @sfliberty "Libertarianism is about individual rights freedom and less state and similar"
Then it shouldn't bother you one iota that Crimea has split from the Ukraine.
@EMHenriksson @Ajsoti @JustinRaimondo @amccobin @sfliberty " Working towards elections with international support and observers. "
While the neo Nazi thugs patrol the streets intimidating and persecuting all supporters of the previous regime.
@EMHenriksson @Ajsoti @JustinRaimondo @amccobin @sfliberty "he interim gov & civilians in Kiev are not tyrants, "
Yes they are. They took power illegally by overthrowing a democratically elected leader. They then passes draconian laws banning Russian as a language.
@EMHenriksson @Ajsoti @JustinRaimondo @amccobin @sfliberty "from a regional stability view RU actions was also bad"
On the contrary. The coup was bad from a regional stability view. So is giving powerto neo Nazis.
Russia's actions mean Crimea might come out of this far better than the rest of the Ukraine.
@EMHenriksson @Ajsoti @JustinRaimondo @amccobin @sfliberty " Do you want sources on both international law, relations and election standards and principles? "
Sure. Let's start with the ICJ's ruling in 2010 about the right of territories to declare independence with or without permission from the central authority.
Then let's look at the fact that interfering in the internal politics of another country is also a violation of international law.
@gunflicks Agreed. This guy is a hack who doesn't even know the facts. He completely ignores the fact that Crimea has wanted to join Russia for 23 years and has held plebiscites over the last 2 decades - where there were no Russian troops present - and voted to join Russia.
@AreaMan @SinNombre @ArikElman <<The basics of the Prawer plan is that the Bedouins are being moved away from hazardous polluted areas to permanent apartment with solid roofs, electricity, and running water>>
Rubbish. It's nothing more than an excuse for segregation.
It really entails the planned expulsion of Bedouins from 90 percent of their former territory into a restricted geographical area in the eastern Negev called the Siyag region on the grounds of their ethnicity. It will have to be carried out by force using armored bulldozers. The whole process mirrors the carrot and stick statutes and pogroms employed by Czarist Russia to establish and maintain the Jewish Pale of Settlement.
Let’s be honest. The major Jewish organizations have partnered with their Zionist comrades in Israel in facilitating the perpetration of this crime and many others committed against the indigenous Arab Palestinian population.
8 months, 4 weeks ago on Access denied | Foreign Policy
@Chris Berel @Herb Glatter @Ronald Thomas West Yes it was stolen and it was not in self defense. It was premeditated.
For example, Ben Gurion wrote in his diary, May 24, 1948 :
"We will establish a Christian state in Lebanon, the southern border of which will be the Litani River. We will break Transjordan, bomb Amman and destroy its army, and when Syria falls, and if Egypt will continue to fight, we will bomb port Said, Alexandria and Cairo.
THIS WILL BE IN REVENGE FOR WHAT THEY (THE EGYPTIANS, THE ARAMIS, AND ASSYRIANS) DID TO OUR FOREFATHERS DURING BIBLICAL TIMES. [emphasis added]"
@Chris Berel @wasp2179 @Blacktied01 True, but yours in certainly a rant without the truth.
@Chris Berel @johnboy4546 @shhhoooo << Yes. Go there. Israel has no intent to destroy Lebanon or the Lebanese people.>>
No they simply want to dominate and control it.
@Chris Berel @excogel @johnboy4546 <<No, Israel does not. >.
Yes they do.
"The Israeli army has always struck civilian populations, purposely and consciously. The army has never distinguished civilian from military targets, but has purposely attacked civilian targets."
[Mordecai Gur(Israeli politician and the 10th Chief of Staff of the IDF)]
<<But the palestinians do not do the second best thing.>>
Israel kills ten times as many civilians so they are the ones committing genocide. It's not the Palestinians who are limiting the caloric of Israelis
@Chris Berel @gosgog <<The Zionists made no such vow>>
Of course they did.
"Palestine proper has already its inhabitants. The pashalik of Jerusalem is already twice as thickly populated as the United States, having fifty-two souls to the square mile, and not 25% of them Jews ..... [We] must be prepared either to drive out bythe sword the [Arab] tribes in possession as our forefathers did or to grapple with the problem of a large alien population"
[ ardent Zionists, Israel Zangwill, 1905]
<<The Palestinians are busy dealing with their own corrupt government.>>
So is Israel.
@Chris Berel @wasp2179 After you tell that to Israel who created Hamas,
@Chris Berel @johnboy4546 @Al2sultan @Blacktied01 <<However, there is no moral eqivilancy between the ANC and Hamas/PLO/Hezbullah. >>
Yes there is, but how would you know when your morality is so selective?
@SergeBaruch @johnboy4546 <<. Iran uses proxies all over the region.>>
So does Israel. Your point?
<<And, can you quote any proof that assassination in question is a deed of Israelis?>>
Can you quote any proof that ran uses proxies all over the region?
@SergeBaruch @johnboy4546 @shhhoooo <<Israelis didn't unleash their firepower on civilians - they unleashed it on Hezbollah's launching pads>>
False. They unleashed it on Lebanese civilians because they couldn't even find the launch pads - that is why the IAF failed so miserably.
As Mordecai Gur(Israeli politician and the 10th Chief of Staff of the IDF) told
Ze'ev Shiff (Israeli journalist and military correspondent for Ha'aretz):
<<The valiant Mohammedan warriors habitually hide under their squaw's burqa and use their children as human shields>>
Sorry but that lie was debunked by journalists in Lebanon at the time.
Hasbara fail dude!!
<< Looks like ol' Mo from Mecca had written this in his Koran as a commandment... oups, sorry, I forgot he was illiterate, so someone has written it into the Musselman holy book for him.>
Looks more like the Talmud.
<<That said, the maxim "Peace through overwhelming firepower" is true today as it always has been. >>
And it has always been a lie.
Anyway, Israel got it's butt kicked big time and knows it can't defeat Hezbollah
Too bad Israel. Better stick to killing Palestinians.
@SergeBaruch @gosgog << poor Palis are having to deal on a daily basis with Hammas messianic nut jobs who use to tie their adversaries from Fatah in bunches of five and push them from the high rise rooftops in Gaza.>
Bibbi's own Intel chief shave dismissed him as a Messianic nut
job. As gor Hamas, Israel created them so it's little wonder they're a bit nuts.
The Fatah iditos were stupid enough to try a coup to overthrow Hamas, when they were ordered to do so by Israel, so they got what they deserved.
<<Same FALSElestinians who started to colonize Eretz Israel when Jews returned there stealing the land and property which they never owned>>
Rubbish. They were there long before the Zionists began arriving. And there was no Eretz Israel to colonize anyway.
<<Murder? Murder and theft are their middle names.>>
Of the zionist militias? I agree.
@SergeBaruch @silencist Certainly a lot more sane.
@SergeBaruch @Kareem H <<Yeah, Hezbollah is much more credible source, innit?>
In fact yes. During the 2006 war, Israelis were tuning into Hezbollah's broadcasts because they considered them more credible than Israeli propaganda.
@wasp2179 "I wonder whether there is, or ever will be, a similar book written by an Arab, in which he honestly portrays the atrocities carried out by Arabs against Jews in Palestine (the 1929 Hebron massacre is one example), or in other Arab countries."
Oh I see, so you think that the fact a Jewish historian has documented Israeli atrocities, it absolves Israel of those crimes?
"The 1948 war, in which the Arab countries attacked Israel, resulted in 700,000 Arab refugees from Israel""
That's a bit like saying if a man has sex with a woman against her will, rape will result What a sleazy avoidance fo accountability.
And you are wrong. Before any Arab countries attacked Israel, the Zionist militias had expelled 300,000 Palestinians.
And no, the number of refugees from Arab countries was not 900,000. That was the total number that left Arab states over 30 years.
And no, there was no population exchange.
@ArikElman "a faith which Shavit writes that Israel's settlers shared until the Palestinians first rose up against them in 1936"
That tends to happen when you arrive on boats and declare your intent to conquer the land and drove those Palestinians from their homes once you have the military capacity to do so.
". In 1929, "Palestinians" already butchered every Jew they could find,""
False. Most of the Jews in Hebron were saved by Palestinians.
@ButchBlosc @ArikElman "And now, the American President whom most all American Jews voted for just guaranteed nuclear weapons for the country that hates Israel the most and will end up destroying her, as Obama sits and laughs.""
False. All 16 US and Israeli intelligegce agree Iran is nto makign nukes.
@ArikElman "'Evil people who opposed it were destroyed, and those who remain, hate Israel not because it is a "bad outcome", but because it reminds them of their defeat.""
One could make equally repugnant statement about the Holocaust, but I won't. The people you dismiss as evil are victims fo colonization and ethnic cleansing.
in your sick Zionist mind, those who dod not welcome being driven from their land were evil
@SergeBaruch @Blacktied01 <<Hey lad, why do you think anybody is interest in your personality, racial background, deep (not) thoughts about anything, fears or the lack thereof?>>
What makes you think you are a spokesperson for the rest of us?
@johnboy4546 And too busy ethnically cleansing it.....
@Chris Berel @Ronald Thomas West Not when it's simply an excuse to steal other people's land.
@silencist Spoken like a right wing extremist following the herd of the far right.
@Kareem H <<He was assassinated by Hezbollah agents for being a suspected informer, this was discovered two years ago and it took a year to finally take him out.>>
I wouldn't give any credibility to French intel, especially if it is reported in the media.
@AbelSantaAna <<Israel was perceived to have lost in 2006 because George W. Bush and the US military intervened against the Israeli war plans.>>
Rubbish. Israeli ambassador to the UN, Danny Gillerman, boasted that the Israelis had 2 ambassadors at the UN, he and John Bolton. The US vetoed all calls for a ceasefire until Israel were getting their butts kicked so badly that they agreed to it.
The Israelis were prevented by the Hexbollah from crossing the Litani River. The IAF kept askingfor more time to clear the area for ground forces but couldn't make a dent in Hezbollah becausethey had no idea where to bomb.
Even the IDf admits it has no way to defeat Hezbollah.
@johnboy4546 @BearKlein Very well put John.
As the Winograd Commission report concluded, the war was initiated by Israel.
@BearKlein @johnboy4546 << Of course the 82 War had nothing do with attacks on Israel by the then PLO army from Lebanon.>>
Israeli historian Avi Shlaim shows that in July 1981, US diplomat Philip Habib brokered a ceasefire between the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) and Israel. For the next year, the PLO infuriated Israel by refusing to violate the ceasefire and thereby provide an excuse for Israel's long-planned attack on PLO refugee camps and bases in Lebanon. Then, on 3 June 1982, a member of the Abu Nidal organization shot and wounded Shlomo Argov, the Israeli ambassador in London. AbuNidal, or Sabri Khalil al-Banna, was a Palestinian, but he was anything but a PLO stalwart: "Abu Nidal was supported by Iraq in his struggle against Arafat's 'capitulationist' leadership of the PLO. Abu Nidal customarily referred to Arafat as 'the Jewess's son.' The PLO had passed a death sentence on Abu Nidal for assassinating some of its moderate members who advocated a dialogue with Israel."The next day, Israeli prime minister Menachem Begin called an emergency cabinet meeting. When his advisor Gideon Machanaimi and Avraham Shalom (the head of the General Security Service) began to discuss the nature of the Abu Nidal organization, Begincut them off: "'They are all PLO.' [Army Chief of Staff] Rafael Eitan was equally dismissive. Shortly before entering the conference room, an intelligence aide told him that Abu Nidal's men were evidently responsible for the assassination attempt. 'Abu Nidal, AbuShmidal,' he sneered; 'we have to strike at the PLO!'"Two days later, Israel invaded Lebanon, which would kill over 18,000 people, including the massacres of Palestinian refugees at Sabra and Shatila, and push Lebanon further into a morass of imperial and sectarian violence. Of course, the lying excuse endlessly proffered for the invasion, enshrined in its nickname "Operation Peace for the Galilee," and obligingly circulated by the American media, was that Israel could no longer be expected to tolerate a constant barrage of PLO rockets across its northern border.
@shhhoooo @johnboy4546 << Israel doesn't have 50,000 rockets aimed at Lebanese civilians.>>
No, the have about 6 times that number.
<<It doesn't want to remove the Lebanese from their homes and country and send them back to wherever >>
It tried, but failed when Hezbollah kicked them out.
@excogel @johnboy4546 << They do second best and lob indiscriminant missiles at civilians.>>
Israel does that too.