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@simplulo @adaptune "Russia was able to invade Ukraine only because in the early 1990s the US persuaded Ukraine to give up its nukes in exchange for security guarantees, formalized in the Budapest Memorandum, signed by the US, UK, Russia, and Ukraine. Russia is now in blatant violation, sending a clear signal to other nuclear powers (e.g. Pakistan, Iran, and North Korea) never to repeat Ukraine's mistake. "
1. The Budapest Memorandum was never formalized as the Urkaine never ratified it
2. Russia did not invade the Ukraine. Under the1997 treaty, they are allowed up to 25,000 troops in Crimea
3. Nukes would not have changed tat fact
4. Crimea has wanted to break way from the Ukraine and join Russia for 23 years.
"Russia is now in blatant violation, sending a clear signal to other nuclear powers (e.g. Pakistan, Iran, and North Korea) never to repeat Ukraine's mistake. "
Oh give us a break. The US did that when it invaded Iraq and not North Korea. It also did that by punishing Iran for NOT having nukes.
"Russia is not behaving like a responsible permanent member of the UN Security Council"
What was responsible about attacking and invading Iraq based on lies? What about bombing Somalia and Yemen with drones? Responsible behaviour?
3 weeks, 6 days ago on Ron Paul Gets It Wrong When He Speaks about Secession and Crimea
Great comment Nik.
It's no surprise that no one in the US media is reporting on the discussion between Ashton and the Estonian foreign minister, just like they are trying desperately to ignore the fact that the Maidan coup was made possible by the Right Sector and Svoboda Neo Nazis.
What they are also refusing to report on is that there is a split developing in the regime between the Maidan and the extremists, with the facists threatening the interior ministry while the regime is taking out the neo Nazis now that they no longer have any use for them.
4 weeks ago on Ron Paul Gets It Wrong When He Speaks about Secession and Crimea
" Hey, Alexander, buddy, in WHAT circumstances would the majority of Crimeans EVER vote to stay with Ukraine? "
Bingo!! They have been voicing their desire to split from the Ukraine for 23 years and join Russia, but neocon ignoramuses like McCobin claim that the referendum was an anomaly due to the presence of Russian forces.
One has to wonder what qualities necons at the SEI and other like minded necon think tanks revere most - stupidity, ignorance or downright dishonesty.
@simplulo @tdebruin73 @Ajsoti @JustinRaimondo @amccobin @sfliberty "Even if 99% of a population "decides" (e.g. checks one of two blocks on the Crimean referendum) to secede, 1% did not, and they have rights as well."
That has nothing to do with individual rights. There is no evidence that the rights of teh tartars and Ukrainians have been violated. In fact, most of the Ukrainian forces in Crimea defected and accepted Russian passports.
"There is a proper process for pursuing secession, and the Crimean referendum wasn't it."
There in only one process - a referendum, not some imaginary process that has never been applied.
4 weeks, 1 day ago on Ron Paul Gets It Wrong When He Speaks about Secession and Crimea
@tdebruin73 @Ajsoti @JustinRaimondo @amccobin @sfliberty
I am not the one making any argument from a libertarian perspective, I am pointing out the hypocrisy of those who are.
"Just look at how the EU would feel if some country decided enough is enough, we're out."
The EU is pretty much a fascist union.
@simplulo @Shingo @Ajsoti @JustinRaimondo @amccobin @sfliberty
This was not a snap referendum - it was one of a number of plebicites Crimea has held which revealed their desire to split from the Ukraine and join Russia. Until now, Russia has rebuffed those requests to maintain good relations with Kiev, but when the neo Nazi regime illegally came to power, Putin was forced to act.
There is nothing illegitimate about the referendum, regardless fo what Obama says.
"There is another principle here, far more important: Russia's signing of the Budapest Memorandum. "
Not really. First fo all, the US already violated it by financing opposition groups and promoting regime change. And in any case, Ukraine never ratified the BP, so it's not legally binding anyway.
And please, spare us the hand wronging over never trusting Russia again. The US is has polled consistently for over a decade as the biggest threat to world peace. This was another manufactured crisis financed by Washington and pretty much everyone outside the US can see that.
And the argument that nukes would have prevented Russia's actions is a canard. Nukes are useless, especially given that Russia has a thousand of them.
"Russia's irresponsible behavior is not fitting of a permanent member of the UN Security Council."
America's is far worse. They destroyed Iraq on a false pretext and killed hundreds of thousands. You're hypocrisy is mind boggling.
@simplulo @Shingo Wrong simplulo,
They were destroying government buildings, thorwing molotov cocktails and their snipers were killing people. It was the neo Nazi fascists who brought violence to the demonstrations and even now, they are already killing one another.
And yes it was a coup. A democratically elected leader was overthrown by violence and intimidation.
"If Yanukovich really had support, he wouldn't have fled to Russia. "
False. It has been revealed that Neuland and the other neocons at teh State Department had threatened the Oligarchs that they would be personally targeted with sanctions if the government met violent demonstrations with violence of their own. The oligarchs pull the strings in the Ukraine and pressured the police and defence forces to step down.
Those same Oligarchs are still in power BTW.
The reason the new regime is unlikely to reduce corruption is because the same people have remained in power. All they did was remove a figurehead.
@simplulo @AlbertoDietz "Mine was that the Ukrainian people were justified in their revolution against Yanukovich and his cronies."
You keep insisting that the minority of Ukraine's population represented by the demonstrators are the "Ukrainian people".
@simplulo "The Ukrainian people were completely justified in overthrowing Yanukovich in the manner that they did"
Who are you calling "the Ukrainian people"? The polls showed that those demonstrating represented the same block that lost the election. So according to you, it's legitimate to take to carry out a coup if your side loses?
"Although I agree with him being overthrown, I suspect most of Crimea did not."
Why did you agree with him being overthrown as opposed to being voted out of office in elections?
@oppa_fx @PanAmPost "BTW just looked at the comment below the article and you can see EXACTLY what the writers of the article talk about"
Yes, the comments below expose the self professed libertarian as a neocon. He's so obvious it's painful.
@xtropx "Make no mistake about it, Crimea was annexed by Russian military force at gunpoint"
False. There was no annexation at gunpoint. Crimea have been wanting to join Russia for 23 years.
@IlushenkaXrushenka "AND ALL JOURNALISTS THAT TRYING TO COVER REFERENDUM GET BEATEN, THEIR CAMERAS GET BROKEN OR THEY GET KIDNAPED."
That's odd. I was watching the whole thing on CNN and no reporter was beaten or had their cameras broken - nor were they kidnapped.
@bennash "This is a separate debate from Russia annexing with Force."
Russia did nto annex with force. In fact, they didn't annex until after Crimea voted for independence. Russia did not use force. Not a single bullet was fired.
"People coming together to VOTE to secede from Ukraine is unconstitutional and constitutes an international crisis. "
So what? The secession of Kosovo was not in line with Serbia's constitution. The suggestion that breakaway territories need permission to gain independence is absurd.
And the ICJ ruled in 2010 that the right to secede is a legal right, regardless of the local constitution.
"Yanukovich resigned and fled."
That's funny . Yanukovich said he did not resign and the illegitimate putchists say they fired him.
They can't all be true,
@EMHenriksson @Ajsoti @JustinRaimondo @amccobin @sfliberty "OSCE, UN, UNSC, multiple countries have all said RU actions breach law & internat treaties"
The UNSC has said no such thing, and it can't because Russia is there to veto any such resolution.
In fact, neither has the UN. Try again.
@EMHenriksson @Ajsoti @JustinRaimondo @amccobin @sfliberty "Libertarianism is about individual rights freedom and less state and similar"
Then it shouldn't bother you one iota that Crimea has split from the Ukraine.
@EMHenriksson @Ajsoti @JustinRaimondo @amccobin @sfliberty " Working towards elections with international support and observers. "
While the neo Nazi thugs patrol the streets intimidating and persecuting all supporters of the previous regime.
@EMHenriksson @Ajsoti @JustinRaimondo @amccobin @sfliberty "he interim gov & civilians in Kiev are not tyrants, "
Yes they are. They took power illegally by overthrowing a democratically elected leader. They then passes draconian laws banning Russian as a language.
@EMHenriksson @Ajsoti @JustinRaimondo @amccobin @sfliberty "from a regional stability view RU actions was also bad"
On the contrary. The coup was bad from a regional stability view. So is giving powerto neo Nazis.
Russia's actions mean Crimea might come out of this far better than the rest of the Ukraine.
@EMHenriksson @Ajsoti @JustinRaimondo @amccobin @sfliberty " Do you want sources on both international law, relations and election standards and principles? "
Sure. Let's start with the ICJ's ruling in 2010 about the right of territories to declare independence with or without permission from the central authority.
Then let's look at the fact that interfering in the internal politics of another country is also a violation of international law.
@gunflicks Agreed. This guy is a hack who doesn't even know the facts. He completely ignores the fact that Crimea has wanted to join Russia for 23 years and has held plebiscites over the last 2 decades - where there were no Russian troops present - and voted to join Russia.