Tarquinis
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Andrew, Israel is a "democracy" only for the "master race". Perhaps this has escaped your notice. If the the Palestinians in the West Bank and the Gaza ghetto had the vote, just how massively different would the situation be?
Yes, there are many terrible problems in the middle east. But only one has the raw and actual political power to manipulate like puppets on a string, the foreign policy of the USA.
Dump this Lobby before it is too late.
The one and only good thing regarding this chaos and sectarian war in Syria, is that it blocks a far worse new war against Iran, for reasons of nuclear WMD which they do not have and are not developing.
We need no new wars. We have had enough. They did not work out like we thought. Learn the lesson.
As Professor Walt notes, Andrew Roberts' May 1 piece in WSJ was largely rubbish on its merits, but consider how much good it not doubt did for his career. Quite a bit, I imagine. Careerism in theory and practice. Solicit the favor of those with the money and the power.
Israel is a nuclear superpower with hundreds of warheads, and among the most advanced delivery systems in the world for same, including ballistic missile firing submarines. Iran has none. Whether or not they argumentatively approach the point of "capability" to develop one, no rational state in the world will ever launch a state to state attack on a nuclear superpower because such is to invite your own destruction. Not gonna happen unless this is your desire.
Israel in majority, has never wanted peace. Peace and stability only come with justice.
What it has always wanted and pursued was a ruthless and racist supremacy.
It is a democracy only for the Jews. The conquered Palestinians are to be subject to this.
In the long run, this cannot work. It is unsustainable.
Ah, jeez. Have we learned nothing about the limits of our capacity? The same sectarian civil war is rapidly developing in Iraq as is rapidly developing in Syria. And we brought this entire disaster upon us by destroying Saddam. Who held the entire process in temporary check. There is no upside whatsoever for America to militarily inject itself into the Iraqi or Syrian civil wars.
In the case of Syria: Bomb the sites of poison gasses? A non-starter for very obvious reasons.
A no flight mandate? That would necessarily entail taking out the air defenses of the whole country.
Maybe just bombing military headquarters, or political centers? Creates only a deeper chaos.
Boots on the ground? The Powell doctrine comes again into play, You invade it, you own it.
Arm the opposition with greater firepower? How well did that work out for us in Afghanistan?
Especially, since the al-Nusra front being the most militant, will come out on top. Al-Qaeda victorious.
Stay the Hell out of this. We already destabilized the entire region. Much to our disadvantage. Mitigate the chaos from outside as well as may be possible, little though that may be.
And for God's sake, DO NOT commence or permit a new major war against Iran. For reasons of nuclear WMD which they do not have, and are not currently developing.
Ah, jeez. Have we learned nothing about the limits of our capacity? The same sectarian civil war is rapidly developing in Iraq as is rapidly developing in Syria. And we brought this entire disaster upon us by destroying Saddam. Who held the entire process in temporary check. There is no upside whatsoever for America to militarily inject itself into the Iraqi or Syrian civil wars.
In the case of Syria: Bomb the sites of poison gasses? A non-starter for very obvious reasons.
A no flight mandate? That would necessarily entail taking out the air defenses of the whole country.
Maybe just bombing military headquarters, or political centers? Creates only a deeper chaos.
Boots on the ground? The Powell doctrine comes again into play, You invade it, you own it.
Arm the opposition with greater firepower? How well did that work out for us in Afghanistan?
Especially, since the al-Nusra front being the most militant, will come out on top. Al-Qaeda victorious.
Stay the Hell out of this. We already destabilized the entire region. Much to our disadvantage. Mitigate the chaos from outside as well as may be possible, little though that may be. And for God's sake, DO NOT commence or permit a new major war against Iran. For reasons of nuclear WMD which they do not have, and are not currently developing.
At the beginning of the "Return of the King" Gandalf and his comrades arrive at Orthanc to confront Saruman. Gimli says to him, "Why not just take his head and be done with it?" to which Gandalf replies: "No, we want him alive. We want him to talk". Same here. Yes, justice must proceed against the surviving bomber, but perhaps even more important, we want him to talk. We badly need to learn as much as possible about this mess. The whys of the situation. Accomplices? Motivations? One more carcass does us little good. We want him to talk
If endless, specious, and often quite erudite argumentation, as with Mr. Nathan C Langston immediately below could ever have saved Israel from the strategic trap in in now in, well the job would have been well and truly done by now.
But here is the problem: There are hundreds of thousands of Palestinians in refugee camps to this day, driven upon pain of death from home and homeland. Those remaining in Israel proper are second class citizens, denied by the Zionist state among many other things, government employment, building permits or road improvements in their areas. Those in the West Bank are third class, literally surrounded on all sides by vast concrete walls, locked into an utterly foul and illegal Apartheid, with constant land confiscation, water resources stolen, homes destroyed, and who are even forbidden to drive on the "Jews Only" roads, with arbitrary, immediate and non-recourse confiscation of their vehicle if they do.
Those unfortunates in the Gaza ghetto are in an even worse condition, under a total blockade by land, sea, and air, imprisoned for life, and subject to repeated large scale devastation by the IDF for their refusal to accept an abject slavery to the Zionist entity, and their continued and increasingly militant resistance to it.
Zionism is at impasse. Won't go forward, and can't go back.
The world is a messed up place. We never should have invaded either Iraq or Afghanistan. Both are fiascoes. We know that. But Syria is descending into predictable chaos, which will cause regional instability.
As much as I oppose fruitless and misconceived invasions on the Powell principle (you invade it, you own it) I might have made the case for intervention in Syria, but that is quite impossible now. Its chaos will destabilize the entire region from Lebanon, where the same splits between Sunni and Shiia will infect it, to Jordan now inundated with hundreds of thousands of refugees, to Turkey which is torn in the knowledge that only it could stomp out the fires of chaos, but only by buying into the Powell principle, and they are not willing to do that.
Iraq is similarly caught. Western Iraq (Anbar province, remember it?) has the remains of the Al-Qaeda presence that caused us such distress, and it now forms an announced alliance with the Al-Nusra front in Syria. Great, just great!
Israel has perhaps the most to lose, but its COMPLETE invalidity in the region, one single inch beyond its borders, show once again that Zionism is at impasse. Hated and despised by every faction. It is not an argument but an observation that there is not even a theoretical role for Israel in resolution of the coming chaos. And chaos is a foe that no amount of bombing can subdue, only make worse. Like putting out a fire with gasoline. As bad as it would be, if we were not already exhausted by the Iraq and Afghanistan wars,
I would have made a case that the situation in Syria requires intervention, being that the forthcoming chaos will be far worse if we do not. That is gone with the wind.
About half the current population of Israeli controlled areas (including the Gaza ghetto) know the condition of their lives are 2nd class in Israel proper, 3rd class in the West Bank, and 4th class in Gaza. And this puts it very mildly.
Israel is a democracy only for the “master race”. And a foul Apartheid state for the rest. Which cannot be sustained. Everyone knows this.
If America were a true friend, we should say this cannot last. Israel is a regional super power but the usual and fatal mistakes of such are to eventually go too far. Witness Napoleonic France, or Nazi Germany. Invading Russia, or attacking Iran. Going too far.
There are many Jewish intellectuals that know this better than most, including Stephen Walt, Norman Solomon, Gideon Levy, Noam Chomsky, the J Street Lobby, and others. Peace ultimately is not optional, it is essential.
Peace can only be based upon justice. No justice, no peace.
About half the current population of Israeli controlled area (including the Gaza ghetto) know the condition of their lives are 2nd class in Israel proper, 3rd class in the West Bank, and 4th class in Gaza. And this puts it very mildly. Israel is a democracy only for the Jews. An Apartheid state for the rest. Which cannot be sustained.
If America were a true friend, we should say this cannot last. Israel is a regional super power but the usual and fatal mistakes of such are to eventually go too far. Witness Napoleonic France, or Nazi Germany. Invading Russia, or attacking Iran. Going too far.
There are many Jewish intellectuals that know this better than most, including Stephen Walt, Norman Solomon, Gideon Levy, Noam Chomsky, the J Street Lobby, and others. Peace ultimately is not optional, it is essential. Peace can only be based upon justice.
No justice, no peace.
I hate to take exception with Professor Walt, but I must on this occasion. If you do not fundamentally understand this conflict in terms of ethnicity and nationalism, you do not understand it at all. There in reality is no reality to "Afghanistan". Except as a nominal description, there is no such thing as an Afghan. The only reason this polity was ever stable was because it had a king that was 'trans-national' and that reality ended forever with the Soviet invasion.
Pashtunistan was politically divided for administration in 1893 by Mortimer Durand, following the Durand Line Treaty fixing the limits of the spheres of influence between King Abdur Rahman Khan and British India. This porous line now forms the border between Pakistan and Afghanistan. The Pashtun do not and never will regard this division as anything more than an illegitimate great power act, contrary to their history and will.
About 40% of the Pashtun population resides east of the Durand Line (Afghanistan) and 60% west of it in Pakistan. In the current (post-Soviet) conflict, Pakistan has suffered around 40,000 dead in civilian and military casualties. Major bombings prior to this phase of the conflict did not occur in Pakistan. Now they are periodic, and they must conduct large scale military campaigns in the Pakistani Pashtun areas.
Yes, Pakistan is largely playing a double game, because they must. Forget the term “Taliban” even though they use it themselves. The “Taliban” are Pashtun militants, largely radicalized by over thirty years of war. They basically want all foreign armies (including the Punjabi Pak army) out of their country. Yes, by our social and political standards, they are primitive, but we cannot by conquest and continuing occupation, support of a puppet regime, change this reality. And of course, we could have avoided this war entirely. Mullah Omar said he would turn over bin-Laden if we first provided reasonable evidence that he was responsible for 9/11. We declined his offer.
The Pashtun are conducting a classic “Protracted War”, whose operational thesis is: “the enemy advances, we retreat; the enemy camps, we harass; the enemy retires, we attack”. As for crystal balls, this is my prediction. Afghanistan will ultimately shake out between a Pashtun east and south, the Northern Alliance areas to the north (Tajik and Hazara) and a traditional west which speaks Dari, and formerly was Persian anyway. Wait and see.
The so-called "peace process" has always been a bogus fraud. It is analogous to a little girl on the ground, with the foot of a 300 lb man on her throat, supposedly negotiating over who gets the lollipop. So it remains. And with the continuing annexations and colonization of the West Bank, negotiations cannot even get started.
New wars with Iran, Egypt, Turkey, or repeatedly devastating Lebanon, killing more and more Palestinians, dispossessing millions from home and homeland, annexations and forced colonization and penning up the remainder like animals in the West Bank and the Gaza ghetto in a foul Apartheid, can never secure Israel. If by those means they could have, we would have seen peace by now.
Zionism therefore is at impasse. Unending war cannot turn out well. Everyone knows this. Though the regular Zionist posters disagree, As they must because we are where they sent us all. For my part, I just want America off this bus before it goes over the cliff and takes us with it.
I for one have always wished for and advocated an enduring peace between Israel and Palestine. But what is reality?
The so-called "peace process" has always been a bogus fraud. And so it remains. It is analogous to a little girl on the ground, with the foot of a 300 lb man on her throat, supposedly negotiating over who gets the lollipop. And with the continuing annexations and colonization of the West Bank, negotiations cannot even get started.
New wars with Iran, Egypt, Turkey, or repeatedly devastating Lebanon, killing more and more Palestinians, dispossessing millions from home and homeland, annexations and forced colonization and penning up the remainder like animals in the West Bank and the Gaza ghetto in a foul Apartheid, can never secure Israel. If by those means they could have, we would have seen peace by now.
OK, so be it. I just want America off this bus before it inevitably goes over the cliff, and takes us with it.
The very best of luck to Senator Hagel. Professor Walt is (as usual) entirely correct in saying that the virtual power of the Zionist lobbies remain in place. Practically speaking, that is a sad thing. For one example:
Senator Rubio: "Peace process not a top priority for Israel right now", nor in fact has it ever been since the foul assassination of PM Rabin. The die is cast. The so-called "peace process" since the murder of Rabin has been a bogus fraud. It is analogous to a little girl on the ground, with the foot of a 300 lb man on her throat, supposedly negotiating over who gets the lollipop. So it remains.
And with the continuing annexations and colonization of the West Bank, negotiations cannot even get started.
New wars with Iran, Egypt, Turkey, or repeatedly devastating Lebanon, killing more and more Palestinians, dispossessing millions from home and homeland, annexations and forced colonization and penning up the remainder like animals in the West Bank and the Gaza ghetto in a foul Apartheid, can never secure Israel. If by those means they could have, we would have seen peace by now.
Zionism therefore is at impasse. Unending war cannot turn out well. Everyone know this.
Rubio: "Peace process not a top priority for Israel right now" Nor in fact has it ever been since the foul assassination of PM Rabin. The die is cast.
The so-called "peace process" has always been a bogus fraud. It is analogous to a little girl on the ground, with the foot of a 300 lb man on her throat, supposedly negotiating over who gets the lollipop. So it remains.
And with the continuing annexations and colonization of the West Bank, negotiations cannot even get started.
New wars with Iran, Egypt, Turkey, or repeatedly devastating Lebanon, killing more and more Palestinians, dispossessing millions from home and homeland, annexations and forced colonization and penning up the remainder like animals in the West Bank and the Gaza ghetto in a foul Apartheid, can never secure Israel. If by those means they could have, we would have seen peace by now.
Zionism therefore is at impasse. Unending war cannot turn out well. Everyone know this.
Same as always, the conflict on the thread is between: those demanding an unending intervention on behalf of Israel (which has refused to make peace) and those either beginning or of long standing, seeing this as greatly contrary to all real American foreign policy interests.
Same old, same old; merely noting that Eisenhower was the last American president with the gravitas to deny the Zionist Jewish or Israeli Lobby (take your pick for political correctness).
Outside of possibly being in the career interests of various writers, I just don't see any realistic purpose in further yip-yap about a two state solution. It is over. As a practical matter, it is foreclosed by forty years of illegal annexations and forced colonization of the West Bank. Look at a map of the "settlements". They are located in such a manner as to make a Palestinian state infeasible. Some 500K super ardent Haredi occupy these "settlements" and it is a fantasy that they ever would leave to make the Palestinian state viable, nor stay in peaceful accommodation with one.
Well then, what of an outright "Apartheid" solution? The servile condition of the Palestinians in the West Bank, surrounded by vast concrete walls, with constant confiscation of water resources and arbitrary destruction of orchards and homes, being forbidden even to drive on the "Jews Only” roads upon pain of immediate and non-recourse confiscation of their vehicle, under total blockade by land sea and air, and the far worse reality of the unfortunates in the Gaza ghetto, subject to periodic devastation by the IDF, imprisoned for life; this is not sustainable especially with a Palestinian numerical majority. Such cannot endure in the modern world. Everyone knows this too.
(See Gideon Levy at Haaretz Dec.5, 2012 “Apartheid without Shame or Guilt”)
http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/aparthei..
Delusional and specious argumentation aside, the only feasible solution now is the "ONE STATE solution", being a state unitary, democratic, and non-sectarian, with equal rights for all and one person, one vote.
Yet this confronts the frankly racist thesis of a state totally dominated by a particular religious or ethnic group, a democracy only for the “master race”. It too is totally unacceptable.
So Zionism is at impasse, unless unending war proves fortuitous. (Good luck with that)
For my part, I just want America off this bus before it goes over the cliff and takes us with it.
The most obvious observation of Hezbollah is that they have no fear of Israel.
Is Israel ready to fight again? They had better think twice. If one can note that Palestine remains indigestible to Zionism, Hezbollah is even more so. A lump in the throat that will choke them.
Unlike our usual throng of Zionist posters, with jgarbuz being the current champion, I would wish for a peaceful resolution of this conflict. Ayatollah Ali Khamenei has a fair point in saying, "You are pointing a gun at Iran saying you want to talk."
If the shoe were on the other foot, what would we say? If "all options are on the table" and preemptive nuclear attack being an option for something they have not done, it is difficult to see how we may proceed with any degree of success. Iran is in basic compliance with the obligations it accepted under the NPT. Yes, it refuses UNSC demands in contradiction with the treaty, but this is comprehensible. Iran want their legal rights respected and observed. The biggest mistake we could make would be to tolerate an attack by Israel.
“Could bombing Iran push it to build the Bomb?” (in part, Reuters, Mar 28, 2012)
“Pre-emptive military strikes aimed at forcing Iran to abandon its nuclear activities may end up having the opposite effect...It is difficult to see a single action more likely to drive Iran into taking the final decision to acquire nuclear weapons than an attack on the country, the foreign ministers of Sweden and Finland said in an opinion piece in the New York Times. And once such a decision was made, it would only be a matter of time before a nuclear-armed Iran became a reality, Carl Bildt and Erkki Tuomioja added.”
“The U.S. administration has concluded that Iranian leaders have not decided whether to actively construct a nuclear weapon, current and former officials have told Reuters. The U.S. intel community says with “high confidence” that Iran has made a capability decision, not a bomb decision, said Jim Walsh, a research associate at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT). "Bombing them will produce a bomb decision, and that will be very difficult to stop." Iran expert Trita Parsi said: "You can't convince a country that it doesn't need a nuclear deterrence by bombing it."
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/28/us-nuclear-iran-debate-idUSBRE82R10920120328