Eastern United States
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I will give a Steve McQueen clap for stating the obvious, but that's about it.
I've already said it before and I'll say it again:
PERMISSION ISN'T COMING.
Black women waiting around and begging for black people to give them permission to seek their own happiness are just kidding themselves. Especially if they think these people will do more than admit what's already hilariously obvious.
And even then, that admission comes with the demand that you continue to wait around for things to "magically" get better.
Ladies, give them a "golf clap" and keep it moving.
6 hours, 50 minutes ago on Deion Sanders Acknowledges the Reality of “Damaged Beyond Repair” (DBR), But…
That is so messed up, but good for her for getting away from him.
15 hours, 33 minutes ago on On Vetting: Dump Toxic People Who Prefer You to Sustain Unhealthy Habits
@Swirlgirl28 @MichelePaynter1 @keimiasmoon Hi, I saw a comment you left an hour ago asking a question. I can't find the thread where you made the comment, but I hope this helps:
1 day, 10 hours ago on Could What Ralph Richard Banks Said in His Book Be True Regarding How Swirling Might Help Black Women Marry Black Men?
@robjk Not knocking your experiences at all, robjk. I promise!
Also congrats on being with the missus for two decades. :)
1 day, 13 hours ago on My Strong Is <em>Not</em> Your Strong, My Swirl Is <em>Not</em> Your Swirl: On White Women Entitlement Issues And Epic Cockblocking
@Tia_25_08 Eh, I think more black women need to cry.
All the time.
For every reason.
I think we all need to flood the world with our tears.
I think we need to cry until other races get used to it.
I think we need to cry until other races realize that we are human.
And I think we need to cry until it dawns on them that we don't give a damn what they think about our tears, because they ARE our tears and we are entitled to shed them openly.
2 days, 1 hour ago on My Strong Is <em>Not</em> Your Strong, My Swirl Is <em>Not</em> Your Swirl: On White Women Entitlement Issues And Epic Cockblocking
I am tired of black women being told not to cry because God forbid someone judge them or laugh at them. Only in this TWISTED racial group would women be laughed at for crying anyway.
Doesn't that strike you as bizarre? Doesn't that strike you as backward?
No other group of people mocks its women for being sensitive.
Black women are given the "stiff upper lip" treatment and it annoys me. I understand your logic, but it still aggravates me.
Chris is a human being with feelings. That she should suppress them for some backward black trolls is laughable at best and deeply disturbing at worst.
Yeah, they laughed, sneered and cheered. But guess what? They would have done so anyway.
Why should Chris or any other hurt black woman lie about her feelings just to make other black women comfortable?
I think her emotional honesty was not only immediately relieving, it hastened the speed at which people came to her aid. She met her goal in a couple of hours. A COUPLE OF HOURS.
That level of feminine vulnerability is powerful. It is something that white women tap into immediately because they know it works.
But in Chris's case, it wasn't manipulative or a way of evading acknowledging she did wrong.
She was sincere, and that made people want to help and protect her all the more.
While many black women lack a support system and people around them to run to their aid, it is unwise to advise ANY black woman that has these things to fail to call on them.
Even less wise to advise black women to fail to develop these things for themselves.
It's one reason so many black women stay losing.
I don't mean to rant, but I am so tired of black women being brow beat over daring to be vulnerable.
@robjk LOL, don't worry. No "read" is coming. But I will touch on the fact that just because things like this aren't happening in your personal life doesn't mean other black women can afford to be caught slipping.
And point out why it's important to not look for the obvious aggression. White women who attack black women RARELY do so openly. If you're looking for white women to come at us the way black men or other black women do, it could explain why this seems "overblown".
Please google that NYT article about Shonda Rhimes that was recently the subject of so much backlash.
Black women have had to endure those kind of microaggressions in print and in life for a LONG time. Just because you were lucky enough not to does not negate the experiences of so many black women.
And they're only going to increase as BW become more visible and openly desired by white men.
You think it's "overblown" now? Wait five years. I don't think anyone will have to point it out to you then; you'll see it for yourself plain as day.
@robjk Thank you for this comment.
You've given me the perfect angle for the follow up to this post...
2 days, 3 hours ago on My Strong Is <em>Not</em> Your Strong, My Swirl Is <em>Not</em> Your Swirl: On White Women Entitlement Issues And Epic Cockblocking
@PrettyBLKgurl @_Toni_ @Statuesque I actually LOVE Peach Girl because it is the only anime I've ever seen touch on colorism.
So many "assumptions" were made about the main character because of her size and dark skin that could easily be attributed to black women.
And the way Sae broke down how she used bigotry to get away with her ugly behavior is SO ON POINT, it was scary.
2 days, 9 hours ago on My Strong Is <em>Not</em> Your Strong, My Swirl Is <em>Not</em> Your Swirl: On White Women Entitlement Issues And Epic Cockblocking
@Statuesque I actually thought about this myself when I saw the cartoon. What's interesting is you see the "strong" and "angry" black woman who "tells it like it is".
Even though the white girl and her classmates are wrong, it's the wrongdoer that's supposedly more sympathetic because she cried.
I also noticed the crying character didn't even apologize. Just "WAAAAH YOU MADE ME LOOK BAD!"
2 days, 10 hours ago on My Strong Is <em>Not</em> Your Strong, My Swirl Is <em>Not</em> Your Swirl: On White Women Entitlement Issues And Epic Cockblocking
Nice story, and congrats!
2 days, 13 hours ago on Neil’s Story: The Overseas Wedding that (Almost) Never Happened
@Lala88 As I said, if we manage to avoid trolls and flame wars, I'll be pleased.
I think the most important thing was getting this out there for the reasons I stated near the end.
2 days, 13 hours ago on My Strong Is <em>Not</em> Your Strong, My Swirl Is <em>Not</em> Your Swirl: On White Women Entitlement Issues And Epic Cockblocking
@ladybugg12 Black women are "shocked" by things like this because often times they are duped into believing a persons WORDS over their ACTIONS.
Not only that but focusing on common traits such as gender or skin color. Not to mention being bound to "causes" and "people" by negative emotions, suffering, and pain.
It's like how some women say they can't be with someone other than a black man because black men understand racism. Some black women become feminists because like they and white women both understand concepts like "sexism" and "the Patriarchy".
The problem is that black women have neither male privilege nor white privilege. It doesn't make sense to assume that one group is going to be a better ally than another when they enjoy privileges that allow them to shamelessly prioritize their SPECIFIC concerns over yours as a black woman.
When you live and learn, you realize that it's always better to judge which people you want around you and as part of your life based on what they've shown through their actions. It's at that point no longer enough to be pacified with empty words and promises.
@TeeTee2013 You're most welcome kind lady. :)
Also don't be shy about sharing your finished product. Sounds interesting!
IMPORTANT MODERATOR NOTE:
As promised, I wrote the post about the disconnect involving WW and our issues, including stepping in to question the desire of women here to not have WM call them "strong black women".
That discussion is here: http://www.beyondblackwhite.com/strong-strong-swirl-swirl-white-women-entitlement-issues-epic-cockblocking/
So PLEASE move any OFF-TOPIC discussion about WW and this matter over there.
This post was NEVER about this group and only about how BW feel about the word and what we wish to communicate to non-black men about it.
2 days, 15 hours ago on “Dear White Guys Who Like Black Women, Please Stop Saying This…”
@trinigirl1 If there is only sulking and no major drama, I'd actually be thrilled.
But hopefully it's food for thought and people abandon the behaviors mentioned.
2 days, 15 hours ago on My Strong Is <em>Not</em> Your Strong, My Swirl Is <em>Not</em> Your Swirl: On White Women Entitlement Issues And Epic Cockblocking
@ms22perfect "WHY WOULD YOU TELL MEN, white men in particular, TO STOP TELLING US WE ARE STRONG?"
Please google the "strong black woman stereotype".
2 days, 16 hours ago on “Dear White Guys Who Like Black Women, Please Stop Saying This…”
I confess I've had a crush on Hrithik Roshan for YEARS. Extra thumb and all.
3 days, 2 hours ago on Late Night Man Candy Monday: Welcome to Bollywood!!
@onmywayup @Sfbta Yep. I actually touch on this quite a bit in an upcoming post.
Intersectionality means that the issues that we have with how white women treat us aren't going to be the same as how white men treat us, which isn't going to be to be the same as how black men treat us.
As black women, we experience a whole separate set of issues that white women feminists often choose to ignore because it doesn't affect them. This side argument over the word "strong" is just ONE example.
3 days, 4 hours ago on “Dear White Guys Who Like Black Women, Please Stop Saying This…”
3 days, 5 hours ago on “Dear White Guys Who Like Black Women, Please Stop Saying This…”
@SpadeJohnson @_Toni_ @EthanSchaeffer Hi! :)
3 days, 6 hours ago on “Dear White Guys Who Like Black Women, Please Stop Saying This…”
So what you're saying is that it's more important that we understand that you're offended than you understand why black women do not want to be referred to as "strong black women"?
Because we are talking about a harmful stereotype.
No white man was ever harmed by referred to as "strong".
Strong is a very MASCULINE word, often associated with physical strength.
While some black women don't mind, others understand there is a long and negative history attached to the "strong black woman" stereotype.
I don't want to think you are seeking to be offended rather than listen to our point of view. No one here claiming that ALL white men are guilty of anything. In fact, this post was no doubt writen with the assumption that people who read it would understand and seek to avoid the behavior.
I'd say this is more or less giving individuals the benefit of the doubt.
We're asking that men listen to our concerns about how we are treated and addressed.
Are you willing to do this?
3 days, 9 hours ago on “Dear White Guys Who Like Black Women, Please Stop Saying This…”
@Statuesque We know ALL about strong white pioneer women. How many feminine dainty black women have you seen praised in the American media?
Black women are often placed in a box and not all black women are happy about it. And some black women are perfectly happy with it.
Like you said, to each his or her own.
Some black women have no bones with the word and that's an opinion that's respected.
But it's also good to understand WHY some black women may take issue with non-black men referring to them as strong black women. And some people just flat out don't want to. Including the white women who were CALLED OUT.
It's all about the context...and the context of that phrase has not been universally kind to black women.
White women who hate the "damsel" trope SHOULD understand this. Why they refuse to is an important question.
Not everyone is ignorant...but we've seen a certain segment of folks only show up to talk about or defend themselves and derail our topics. And when we are under attack? Not a single word.
So excuse me if I'm not in the mood to lay out disclaimers. We are still a battle-scarred bunch and I am side-eyeing the nature of the discussions that people decide they suddenly want to be visible for.
Anyway, you saw that screencapped picture. Did you REALLY think that woman understood or cared about why some black women had an issue with that phrase?
Did that look like solidarity to YOU?
3 days, 20 hours ago on “Dear White Guys Who Like Black Women, Please Stop Saying This…”
@simplylois Unless a woman is bi-racial "more black than white" is all in her head as there's simply no way to justify that claim. Not in America.
Let me take my black self to a sundown town and try and claim I feel "more white than black" (which I'd never fix my mouth to say btw).
You'd be lucky to hear from me again.
@Shenai My brain is starting to shut down because I'm very sleepy (I'm brewing Sleepy Time tea right now in preparation for bed...), and I still understood this. :D
Thanks for your comment.
3 days, 21 hours ago on “Dear White Guys Who Like Black Women, Please Stop Saying This…”
@caligirl94117 @_Toni_ Your quote is fine, especially since you bolded the part that makes it relevant to this discussion.
@pope992000 MOD NOTE:
I'm allowing this comment because it perfectly explains what was meant by "White Tears" in existing threads.
I would like to ask everyone to keep their thoughts in EXISTING threads as to keep this discussion from going any further off topic.
Thanks for this; it is a good explanation for the term!
@Maxine @_Toni_ @Christelyn LOL was that you that liked my post before I made it go poof? XD Sorry about that.
@janet28 I actually said white women were competing WITH the "damsel in distress" trope. That means not wanting to be seen as a damsel.
I also again say that some white women are more than HAPPY to fall back on it. Google "White woman's tears".
This is a very real phenomenon. I didn't just make it up.
3 days, 22 hours ago on “Dear White Guys Who Like Black Women, Please Stop Saying This…”
I understand that this is being discussed by non-black women and black men, but we might have be careful about how we direct attention to those other groups.
This is a post about WHITE MEN treating us this way. I don't much care what people who aren't non-black men or black women think about this topic. And we ALL KNOW how easy it is for people to derail topics. So lets all try and stick to Chris's lovely post that she worked so hard on (and I'm half sleep and losing my mind. -.- Please excuse me)
I think we are in danger of losing the plot.
To the gentlemen here, I apologize and also would like to thank you for listening.
I don't know if this is intentional reading comprehension fail or if you are trolling.
Half of what you're complaining about was NEVER DIRECTED AT YOU and the other half is a blatant inability to honor the simple request to listen to what other women have to say and understand the difference in our experiences.
YES, white women have benefited from being able to both play damsel in distress AND strong.
I do not care if you have black friends and a black boyfriend. Their blackness has not transferred over to you, and this is still a POV you do not get.
As a matter of fact this entire post was directed at WHITE MEN, and NOT white women.
You are not even the target of this discussion. What does it matter to you how black women wish for white men to see them?
@TheRealHecky420 "Maybe instead of saying that we like a girl because she is strong, we should show it through our actions."
@Christelyn You know what Chris? Depending on how this goes, I would like to do a follow-up to this post and why some white women don't/won't get this.
Because I feel like the air needs to be cleared. I thought I had said everything I had to about the disconnect between mainstream white feminism and black women, but I guess I have not.
3 days, 23 hours ago on “Dear White Guys Who Like Black Women, Please Stop Saying This…”
@Christelyn @ShepherdNation This is why, as much as I would like to go DRAG this individual, I won't.
This "proud to be strong" woman would morph into a damsel in distress being attacked by a "big black dragon".
I've seen this far too many times....
@Christelyn I bet this woman thinks she's progressive. She is a textbook case of white privilege.
And then she has the AUDACITY to tell black women how to feel about a word used to often silence and marginalize them.
I bet if I went to her page and called her a bigot, she's choke to death on her own indignity. ...I'm SORELY tempted.
@BreannaNouveaux "So if you *love* a black woman, respect her decisions to be seen as a woman. And a woman can often be as non-strong as she wants to - otherwise why would we need you men again?? Lol."
YES! SOMETIMES SHE WANTS TO RUN TO SOMEONE IN SLOW-MOTION!
@Christelyn @_Toni_ @simplylois @janet28 Yep. :/
I actually saw that recent Special K commercial and I couldn't help but notice they reserved "strong" for the black woman.
She couldn't be "graceful" or "wise" or "beautiful"?
@simplylois @janet28 I think the problem is that white women have been used to competing with the "damsel in distress" trope aka being seen as weak or delicate.
So when white women get called strong, it's a sign of progress.
Black women have NEVER been viewed as delicate or victims and often, as I said, it's a word that is used in a stereotypical manner at times.
The "strong black woman" trope often walks hand in hand with the "angry black woman" trope.
There are many ways to tell a black woman you admire her that acknowledges her as a woman. Specifically as a feminine woman.
I know this isn't an issue for ALL black women, because some black women are completely divorced from their femininity and even their womanhood.
Even so, the SBW trope gets tiresome.
The solution is rather simple and always has been: break out the thesaurus.
There are so many other ways to comment on a person's emotional or mental strength without using the word "strong", which is still very much a word associated with the physical.
Instead, say that she is....
- plucky (I find this word to be cute. LOL)
I'm sure if you looked around the English language quite a bit, you'd realize that there are sooooo many other words that can describe the ability of black women to thrive in the face of so many obstacles than that one word.
In fact, I CHALLENGE people who love and support black women to remove that one word from their vocabulary. See how many other ways you can describe the black women in your life without having to use the S-word as a descriptive "crutch".
I see we have quite a few eyeballs.
I would appreciate it if anyone who SINCERELY wants to participate in this conversation who is not a regular member of our community to please familiarize themselves with the TOS under the "About" section.
Also visit this link:
Because of recent attacks on this community, understand that the moderators have ZERO TOLERANCE for commentary that is trollish, derailing, gaslighting, or breaks our rules in other ways.
As with many sensitive topics, people wish to discuss and debate. That's fine. No one's saying you have to agree...but you WILL respect this community.
@janet28 "No im not a black female I am white-"
Which is why, no offense, you need to not make this about YOU. There are VERY specific reasons why black women have a problem with this word when it is thrown at us.
It is usually part of a stereotype that dehumanizes us, strips us of our womanhood, and suggests we do not have feelings or vulnerability and can be treated ANY kind of way.
Please allow us to have this conversation and listen...just like we've asked the white guys to do.
4 days ago on “Dear White Guys Who Like Black Women, Please Stop Saying This…”
@MarthaLankford Have no fear! I am here with the handy *. Which will hopefully keep your comment from getting flagged.
Great comment, by the way. :)
1 week ago on Could What Ralph Richard Banks Said in His Book Be True Regarding How Swirling Might Help Black Women Marry Black Men?
@kennaGransberg @_Toni_ You know what's MOST annoying about his comments the more I think about it?
He spent all his time and energy talking about how good he and his associates are. About how successful they all are.
Yet...at no point did he demonstrate the simple act of speaking up on behalf of black women. He did not recall any instances of calling out black men for saying negative things about black women. Or praising black women's beauty to other men.
He had everything good to say about HIMSELF and nothing to say about the actions required of men who deserve a second glance.
And it's really typical.
A little bit of flattery and a lot of self-praise with the promise of "someday", but no concrete action; not even a pretended example of being there for black women when needed.
I know some want to give him the benefit of the doubt, but all you have to do is read between the lines to see the truth....this man and his ilk are FULL OF IT!
@kennaGransberg I had to reread it because my eyes glazed over. I mean I kept waiting and waiting and WAITING for him to make a point. :/
It turned into an annoying advertisement for "good black men" and a limp promise to do something about those dastardly DBRs...so long as BW "don't give up on their dreams"!
@dani-BBW She is also far more gracious than I. I would not have been able to respond to any of that with a straight face. :S
@jazzyfae45 "But my question is why is he talking to black women on an interracial dating site instead of black women on black love sites?"
Because these women are harder to get at than the desperate BW crying crocodile tears and writing open letters about how "even though black men treat me like crap, I'll always be here!"
I take it these BM see BW not interested in them as more of a challenge with the "bonus" of stealing them away from non-BM.
It's rather gross to me. :/
@Christelyn @ChocolateDiva IT IS JUST LIKE THAT OTHER POST! Where we were talking about the words men use to keep women hanging on so they can string them along!
That is immediately what I thought of. I swear some of these dudes think all black women are asleep...
I also confess my eyes glazed over so I missed some of the more hilarious bits of gaslighting (which this is, make no mistake...). Let's take a closer look at this politely-dressed nonsense:
I’m a young 36 year old business man, single and without any children right now but plan on having a family one day soon. I love all people and don’t have anything against interracial dating, my mother is a very proud black woman with different ethnic backgrounds but her and my dad raised me to know self and be strong as a man.
What may at first seem like an attempt to shed background on himself as a means of explanation is REALLY this person trying to "advertise" to any desperate black women who may be interested.
This is how these IBM's keep the dream alive.
He tells us he's single and plans to get married someday soon. Someday soon? If this were the truth, why isn't this man out looking for black women DESPERATELY seeking black men? Why is he in the comments section of (1) a black woman married to a white man who (2) heads up an interracial dating community for black women who (3) clearly are not interested in limiting their choices to black men?
Things that make you go, "Hmm."
The reason i’m telling you this is because i don’t want you all to give up on us.
Funny, he started off saying, "you are entitled to have your own mind and feelings."
Was he hoping that change up would slip by the reader? I think a woman who is entitled to her own mind and feelings is ALSO entitled to drop men who string her along, use, and abuse her like a bad habit.
we positive black men are getting ready to step up and speak out on behalf of black women and change our community.
Getting ready to? GETTING READY TO? I'm sorry but "positive" black men have had decades to reverse trends. DECADES. And now that we've moved into "too little, too late" territory, we're supposed to look out for these individuals?
Also this person seems to be operating from the assumption that every black woman who is broadening her options has "given up". Insulting. Some black women never had any intention of limiting themselves. Some black women were simply never checking for black men. Not every black woman is part of a monolith.
Also...not all of us black women operate with a "pain porn" mentality.
I had to do a double-take because I was pretty sure I'd read one of these IBM sob stories on this site AT LEAST once before. Quite similar.
But you are definitely right, Chris: These self-proclaimed "good black men" now know that the jig is up. And that their failure to correct more obviously DBR black men while benefiting from the status quo is getting them left in the dust as well.
It's always interesting reading these notes from such men, because they always read like they're trying to dangle a carrot in front of your face.
You know how some people have those fishing rods with something you want attached to the string and then when you reach for it, they raise it up so you can't get it? That is precisely the tone I read throughout this comment and I wonder if other BBW members caught onto it.
@Christelyn First thought: The fro is fabulous!
Second thought: PREACH!
1 week, 2 days ago on Listen Ladies! If You’re Going to Complain About How “Black Men Hate You” While Scoffing at Expanding Your Options…Then You’re Just Begging.