theAtrium (banned)
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@ArcticWarrior @Txazz @majrod @JackMurphyRGR
" It was my understanding that JackMurphyRGR was double and triple vetting his sources. If he could not do that things were left out. So bear in mind there is probably more but if people couldnt be fact checked more then once it didnt make it. So it may not be weak areas, just areas left to be revisited at another time. "
The quality of Jack's sources is what's at issue here. If they're just a bunch of GRS Jason Bournes, a bunch of Targeters or GS12-13 officers, then that blind spot will be pretty wide.
There's really nothing to 'bring on', Stormy. If Jack's right the CIA's on his side; If Jack's wrong then he's Wikileaks re Brennan ops.
1). Who does executive protection for the DCIA?
2). Are they ex- SOF?
3). Why would they betray Gen. P4?
4) Is P4 really that dumb as to involve his protection detail in the affair?
5) Didn't P4 state, his involvement w/ Paula ended at DoD?
6). What of the Lebanese chic, Kelley and that FBI agent friend of hers (were they just smoke screen)?
Occam's Razor. The CIA's not going to bother with the whole P4 affair, they are not that petty. The Brennan covert ops, however, is another issue: If Jack's right, then the CIA is with him; If Jack's wrong, and Brennan's war is actually a SAD approved op, then Jack will have some legal issues akin to Wikileaks.
@Matt2point0 @ArcticWarrior Don't be a quiter, Matt!
"Look... if we quit now, they win." - SA Dana Scully
@Old PH2 " My question is, was the fire the result of the CS grenades or was it actually intentional? "
As per SB Sheriff's press conference yesterday, looks like they are sticking to "unintentional", but radio traffic begs to differ.
A hot CS gas can can be rigged to burn quite easily, SB Sheriff's should be explaining this differently, ie. within the scope of lethal force, smoking or even burning Dorner out is legal. Two deputies had been injured, you don't want more, only Dorner was in the cabin and confirmed, fire away.
SB Sheriff's is skirting around this like they don't know their own use of deadly force policy. Even after Dorner's death, local LEOs are still playing to his tune--Ironic.
"You better get Trautman out to that cabin.... "
Too late. Now for the damned copy cats a plenty.
@dmalert @ArcticWarrior @JackMurphyRGR
Livefyre must be broke again. I can't see any of my comments, but the latest comments up top are going on. Figures, livefyre sucks!
Marshalls, ATF, Feds go to a neighborhood to do some snooping and pooping, they have to inform the Watch Commander in the area whether Sheriff's or police, that's a given, BUT even this gets over looked so many times it's not even funny.
CT by drone, or by SOF, or by conventional means, or by law enforcement, hell CT by singing "We are the World" songs even. We should have that discussion, I agree, BUT that discussion is separate from blaming someone like Brennan for Benghazi, he was tapped to do a job, kill bad guys, and he did it.
Now you can blame him for conducting a too SECRET war, and not getting CIA's Special Activities Division involved, who are the one's legally authorized to do Covert OPs (Title 10/Title 50 debate, whether this is what's actually going on here, the proof is still in the pudding for me--not belittling Jack's book, his book and Nada Bakos' write up over at FP were the best takes on Benghazi thus far).
Stovepiping (I fucking hate this word by the way, someone come up with a new analogy or metaphor) in the IC is so pervasive that to blame one guy for this just isn't cool. You have to have more.
" Also, those metrics you want...you'll never get them. The real numbers are much, much darker than anyone wants to admit and would absolutely have Brennan out of a job. "
I understand this is some Dwayne Clarridge stuff: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNgCyDsvi84
By "much darker" are you saying the body count is in the thousands? OR does that mean "much darker" in terms of so hidden that there's absolutely zero accountability, hence "out of the job"?
The fact that bad guys are dying, and the only reason Brennan's program got outed was Benghazi (not belittling the deaths here), means it's a pretty tight program, a tight program usually means morale high with everyone involve, SO my next question is
When you say a lot of people are pissed off, you don't mean anyone under Brennan do you?
Bro, the ACLU is wringing their hands as we speak, a bunch of lawyers are going to nit pick the Officer Involved Shooting on Dorner, if he's not already frozen in Big Bear. Again, it's a slippery slope fallacy, man, we have so many lawyers in this country that drone executions inside CONUS is near impossible. We'd have to have that Chaudry fiasco in Pakistan where lawyers in their suits were protesting and throwing rocks ala Anarchists for drone executions to occur.
To successfully prosecute this whole "I don't like Brennan" mantra, you gotta back it up. The guy's Arabic skills is thru the roof, he knows the region like the back of his hand, maybe he's gone too native, but if you really want to know thy know enemy sometimes you gotta go this route, but he's one of the best NE hands out there.
Amb. Stevens was the same, you can't canonize one and piss on the other. You gotta have more. You need one fist of Iron and another fist of Steel here, and those two and the very few like them are needed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2tWwHOXMhI
Which reminds me...
@JackMurphyRGR : "Amb. Stevens did not see eye to eye with the WH CT adviser John Brennan when it came to unilateral military action, which Stevens saw as counterproductive to his mission in Libya."
Was the above analysis from Wikileaks State cables or from a source?
Give me more, man. You probably just started your watch. I'm going to bed, bro, I'm beat, unlike rod I don't read 90 fuckin' pages per hour. 'Nite, man.
" He is a poacher not a hunter. "
Jack didn't lay out a case against Brennan. Are his ops unsuccessful or successful?
Hopefully, he'll cover this in his next book in the region. GWOT 2.0, that's a new concept, man. And demands a book akin to "Counterstrike".
http://podbay.fm/show/498897343/e/1330085040 ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_M._Chesney )
@JackMurphyRGR @ArcticWarrior @dmalert @majrod
Oh, I almost forgot, re the 3 ISA guys in Mali. They could've just been pimping the Moroccan chics to Islamists elements up north. Biker gangs and prison gangs here do it all the time, that's the secondary reason for having hot chics, great way to leverage information. Maybe, they did a reverse car pick-up, chics were driving OR regular pick-up, the intel was just so mind blowing.
That was some damn good reading, man, BZ!!! Looking forward to the follow up book, I'm expecting the next books to be in the same league as "Counterstrike" and the Steve Coll books.
I think you should've left out the whole Gen. Petraeus/Protective detail stuff though, as I'm noticing most of the reviews are focusing on this most titillating part--I'm picturing big bald guys with popcorn in dark suits watching P4/Paula amateur videos.
I'm still going over Appendix II, it's like your Mali series--fucking awesome!
"Conductor working with a master musician", like Duke Ellington w/ Johnny Hodges & Cootie Williams, what a great way to give props to the best, I'm reminded of this scene from "Collateral": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZO3uVu2qNk
And GRS described as "Jason Bournes without the complex spy work", best description of this program I've ever heard.
To continue this ad hoc review, I'm gonna jump back to an ongoing discussion with @ArcticWarrior , @dmalert , and a little bit with @majrod re John Brennan, drones & waterboarding. It's been like a 3-way rumble, me vs. AW/dm and rod switching sides last minute after the drone justifications came out.
I'm still for John Brennan, asshole or not. So here goes:
@JackMurphyRGR : "From Oliver North to John Brennan, this is just the way the system works regardless of the administration. The dead bodies they leave in their wake are, at the end of the day, just collateral damage in a war waged by those with political ambitions."
I don't understand what political ambitions you're implying here, Jack. You stated in the preceding page of said quote, that Brennan's GWOT 2.0 may just well be necessary in the fight against Muslim terrorists. Soldiers die in war all time, how is Brennan's program culpable. I understand the main issue in this debacle was in the lack deconfliction--seems to me CIA was doing its job, State, DoD and Brennan were all doing their jobs, just not bothering to coordinate their efforts in the same region, country. Where's the political ambitions portion in this?
@JackMurphyRGR : "Ambitious bureaucrats like John Brennan need to be reined in or fired if these operations are to be successful, or we will see plenty more Benghazis happen."
Again I fail to see how Brennan's culpable here, you've stated that every WH administration has these special projects. Which operations success are we talking about here? Do we have a metrics on the success of these Brennan/JSOC ops vis-a-vis regular CTC/CIA/SOCOM/DoD type missions?
You wrote that the CIA mission in Benghazi was largely to locate WMD/NBCR-type materials, I can see State being blind, BUT if CIA (about 30 personnel strong, right?) was running agents and chasing leads around that area, wouldn't it be more likely that regardless of what Brennan's boys were doing (or because of what they were doing) that they'd know? Were they so tunnel visioned with just uranium stuff, that they selectively muted talks of Brennan ops from locals?
@JackMurphyRGR : DSS inexperienced, didn't shoot
What's the DoS' DSS ROE in these situations, we've all heard of Marine Security Guards being told by Foreign Service types not to do shit, but DSS not shooting, WTF?
@JackMurphyRGR : Title 10/Title 50
Any chance you can do a quick article on this and your take to accompany the book this week and start a discussion on it, like your quick but heavy take on the Women in combat article? Thanks again, Jack. As always good stuff.