Give me more, man. You probably just started your watch. I'm going to bed, bro, I'm beat, unlike rod I don't read 90 fuckin' pages per hour. 'Nite, man.
1 year, 6 months ago on Benghazi: The Definitive Report
" He is a poacher not a hunter. "
Jack didn't lay out a case against Brennan. Are his ops unsuccessful or successful?
Hopefully, he'll cover this in his next book in the region. GWOT 2.0, that's a new concept, man. And demands a book akin to "Counterstrike".
http://podbay.fm/show/498897343/e/1330085040 ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_M._Chesney )
@JackMurphyRGR @ArcticWarrior @dmalert @majrod
Oh, I almost forgot, re the 3 ISA guys in Mali. They could've just been pimping the Moroccan chics to Islamists elements up north. Biker gangs and prison gangs here do it all the time, that's the secondary reason for having hot chics, great way to leverage information. Maybe, they did a reverse car pick-up, chics were driving OR regular pick-up, the intel was just so mind blowing.
That was some damn good reading, man, BZ!!! Looking forward to the follow up book, I'm expecting the next books to be in the same league as "Counterstrike" and the Steve Coll books.
I think you should've left out the whole Gen. Petraeus/Protective detail stuff though, as I'm noticing most of the reviews are focusing on this most titillating part--I'm picturing big bald guys with popcorn in dark suits watching P4/Paula amateur videos.
I'm still going over Appendix II, it's like your Mali series--fucking awesome!
"Conductor working with a master musician", like Duke Ellington w/ Johnny Hodges & Cootie Williams, what a great way to give props to the best, I'm reminded of this scene from "Collateral": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZO3uVu2qNk
And GRS described as "Jason Bournes without the complex spy work", best description of this program I've ever heard.
To continue this ad hoc review, I'm gonna jump back to an ongoing discussion with @ArcticWarrior , @dmalert , and a little bit with @majrod re John Brennan, drones & waterboarding. It's been like a 3-way rumble, me vs. AW/dm and rod switching sides last minute after the drone justifications came out.
I'm still for John Brennan, asshole or not. So here goes:
@JackMurphyRGR : "From Oliver North to John Brennan, this is just the way the system works regardless of the administration. The dead bodies they leave in their wake are, at the end of the day, just collateral damage in a war waged by those with political ambitions."
I don't understand what political ambitions you're implying here, Jack. You stated in the preceding page of said quote, that Brennan's GWOT 2.0 may just well be necessary in the fight against Muslim terrorists. Soldiers die in war all time, how is Brennan's program culpable. I understand the main issue in this debacle was in the lack deconfliction--seems to me CIA was doing its job, State, DoD and Brennan were all doing their jobs, just not bothering to coordinate their efforts in the same region, country. Where's the political ambitions portion in this?
@JackMurphyRGR : "Ambitious bureaucrats like John Brennan need to be reined in or fired if these operations are to be successful, or we will see plenty more Benghazis happen."
Again I fail to see how Brennan's culpable here, you've stated that every WH administration has these special projects. Which operations success are we talking about here? Do we have a metrics on the success of these Brennan/JSOC ops vis-a-vis regular CTC/CIA/SOCOM/DoD type missions?
You wrote that the CIA mission in Benghazi was largely to locate WMD/NBCR-type materials, I can see State being blind, BUT if CIA (about 30 personnel strong, right?) was running agents and chasing leads around that area, wouldn't it be more likely that regardless of what Brennan's boys were doing (or because of what they were doing) that they'd know? Were they so tunnel visioned with just uranium stuff, that they selectively muted talks of Brennan ops from locals?
@JackMurphyRGR : DSS inexperienced, didn't shoot
What's the DoS' DSS ROE in these situations, we've all heard of Marine Security Guards being told by Foreign Service types not to do shit, but DSS not shooting, WTF?
@JackMurphyRGR : Title 10/Title 50
Any chance you can do a quick article on this and your take to accompany the book this week and start a discussion on it, like your quick but heavy take on the Women in combat article? Thanks again, Jack. As always good stuff.
OK, I gotta stop fucking around with all y'all and read this thing.
Oh, shit that's funny, man!!! Didn't even think about that.
This ebook is going to be the "Mea Maxima Culpa" film to the Vatican, look what happened today, the question is, who's going to be the WH's pope.
I gotcha he's still responsible, but as Jack stated before legally can you ding him, how would you prosecute it?
I know dm stated below that probably Obama just said, handle it. The more likely scenario was probably the folks running the Benghazi ops saying, it's okay Mr. Prez. we'll handle it.
" Let's not get away from having people on the ground (operatives/not soldiers) and try an do it all from the air. "
This process is heavily invested on people before and after these attacks. That's where the ZDT movie failed (finally, got a pirated copy, saw it, sucked ass), this war isn't run by targeters like Maya, it's prosecuted by people on the ground.
You read fast!!! You and RVN SF VET already talked about the above, can you rehash the process again in the hopes of getting Jack to chime in? Thanks, rod!
Good stuff on the Jesuits, I myself do the Examen twice to three times a day as prescribe. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kEb-GZG2ZM
Exactly my point re Brennan's testimony, he knows his audience and Brennan's just playing the game.
And lastly, as for the "slippery slope" argument on drone executions
(@ArcticWarrior, convinced me on the use of this terminology vs. assassination), I don't think there's a slope at all since we CAN stop this at anytime depending on popular perception, like waterboarding.
So a better analogy would be a slippery flat surface, yeah still dangerous BUT not as dangerous.
I stumbled on this letter. I was actually looking for articles on how bad ass Brennan is like all the Gen. Mattis write-ups out there, but I guess I'm his biggest fan, me and old Barry O, and there's a loud absence of swooning write-ups on him. Take from it what you will, I'm a big fan of Jesuits since watching "the Mission":
After learning that U.S. national security official John Brennan would address Jesuit-run Fordham’s graduating class, ex-CIA analyst (and Fordham alum) Ray McGovern protested in a letter to the Fordham Ram. McGovern cited Jesuit principles of truth and justice — and Brennan’s role in the “dark side” of the “war on terror.”
His letter here: http://consortiumnews.com/2012/03/22/mcgovern-protests-brennans-speech/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJ4WviaApHc and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmUxkdTZY18
* always been Gangster Squad
@RedWanderer @theAtrium @ArcticWarrior @dmalert
Guys, I don't understand what the issue is with the word "reprehensible"--is your take that it is in fact NOT reprehensible OR that JB's calling it reprehensible undermines what we've already done?
Coffer Black and John Brennan are the right guys for GWOT, period. So were Sulick and Kappes, so were our guys in W. Africa who could've taken care of the Sahel/Al-Qaeda problem before it became a problem.
My analogy for this has also been Gangster Squad, and I've stuck by that.
We're a nation of laws, but there's times we take the gloves off. Eventually, like homeostasis, the population catches up, our conscience catches up and we have to go back to this illusion that is the Rule of Law--I have no problem with this, as I've also bought into this illusion myself, but we have to recognize it as an ideal, nothing more, like Isaiah Burkhart's use of the Helen Keller quote about security, here:
Now if you guys are saying it's time to return to the Rule of Law, and re-shelf Brennan and others like him, I can dig that. BUT if this is just a way to get at Obama via Brennan, because of current politics, then that's where we'll disagree, since my whole push here has always been the fight in the field.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIP2bw4WyZ0 and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Alu76iIFJ60
Leave my boy alone, bro! He runs good ops--just got caught up in this mess, but his track record is good. He's no Choir Boy, but he's a natural hunter. He'll continue what Sulick and Kappes started--they too were derailed by unforeseen circumstances. Give him a break.
* But that's coming straight from my own ass, I didn't talk to insiders or researched this. That's what I'm talking about false equivalency.
This is where FOX fucked up. The idea that everyone's privy to all this info. Covert ops means just that.
My hypothesis is less conspiratorial. It's simple, there was no (official) boots on the ground on Libya, because that was our policy from the git go, keep things small there--it counters the 'leave no man behind' ethos of the military, but from a political calculus, only 4 people died, instead of more people.
@recon00 But, don't give me that Flock of Dodos bs, do some leg work as Jack has.
@recon00 That's why you buy Jack's book tomorrow, read it, see the proof offered, if you still want to refute, write your own book.
@recon00 My point exactly, bro. You're playing the false equivalency game. Unless, you've amassed a certain modicum of evidence, sit down and shut up--metaphorically, of course.
" I offered an alternative hypothesis "
Write a book then, bro. While you're at it write one for Intelligent Design.
I agree, man. I'm waiting for the book tomorrow. Hope you guys have talked to Livefyre, I gotta feeling it'll be busy tomorrow.
@Snap @recon00 Read the book first before you two re-enact this movie:
Did you get the early version of the book?
@Snap @recon00 " The question is, why was it more advantageous for Obama to do nothing? "
To keep covert ops, covert?
@ajgamble Sorry, that was more for recon, your commentary on SOFREP has been solid, just saying some quality control is needed here, given the weight of this book and tomorrow.
@ajgamble To successfully posit that point it has to be comparative, otherwise it's just BS, is all I'm trying to say. If you bring up birther, Kenyan, Muslim conspiracy theories into this, it does nothing to further the discussion. This book is good stuff, leave all the PJMedia stuff where it belongs.
You guys are dumbing down the discussion, Jack's giving us some good scoop here, don't gargle it:
(108) Jesus said: He who drinks from my mouth will become like me, and I will become like him, and the hidden things will be revealed to him. (Gospel of Thomas)
Again compared to which Pres.'s resume?
Bro, compared to which President's resume?
@dmalert Was that a plug for the new Disney movie coming out. Yeah, like you stated before, man, 19 fucking 84.
" a conclusion that the white house purposely withheld rescue to further a hidden interest. "
They had reason to keep cover ops, covert.
This goes back to the Hillary testimony, it's not like ZDT where these guys at the WH were watching and munching on popcorn.
How about the gov't contract company involved?
@JackMurphyRGR You think this part would appear in a Part II on Libya?
@JackMurphyRGR Another Tier 1 element was delayed as well, BUT I've always chocked it up to the attack being over, there was no party to go to. Further, detailed machination of this delay would be interesting reading, especially the process behind it.
@dmalert There's FOX, but they've made themselves complicit in this as well.
Yeah, I read that by the time FAST was ready to go, most of everyone at Benghazi were already enroute to Tripoli. It was done. Over.
@ajgamble Agree, @JackMurphyRGR .
@RVN SF VET & @majrod have offered their commentary here and in FP a few times and the concerns above--this was the last commentary here (I believe): http://sofrep.com/15661/schwarzkopf-grenada-rangers/
@dmalert " And people in power love the Fox vs. MSNBC drag down cause it distracts people. "
EXACTLY, bro!!! Well said.
@dmalert He writes some funny anecdotes of fat ladies at disbursing that he has to coochy coo just to get them to do their jobs.
@dmalert Civilian vs. military, you should read his book, man. Not saying military bureaucracy is somehow better, but it is more efficient.
@BrandonWebb You gotta scroll down below for Jack's pricing.
@BrandonWebb LOL, $5.99, right? Price for politicians.
@dmalert Their main fault is that they're playing 2nd string, while CIA is pouching the best and brightest. So with the plan above, that should be mitigated.
@dmalert If you close down CIA, hand everything over to DIA. I think rod said that they were a bunch of post-grad yuppy pussies with no military experience. Don't quote me on that though.