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@mark sutton @RDyer
A last comment on Matt Cain: In 2010 when he had the 32nd best run support out of 150 MLB starters he went 13-11. So trying to justify his losses because of lack of run support goes both ways.
Matt Cain is a good #3 starter, and that's all he's ever been.
The Giants spent $127.5 million on Cain for 6 years (2012-17). The rest is SF front office PR oatmeal to make him seem like a #1 or #2 starter.
Which he ain't.
I agree with you about the the Giants World Series wins. I think that 2010 was a fluke, but I give them credit for making it happen even though they had a average team. 2010 is when the Giants had to fight for it and earned it.
2012 was a flat out great team that earned everything they got-- they were indeed World Champions.
2014 was a totally accidental, back-door year. The 10th team out of 10 to make the playoffs, who only got to WS Game 7 because they had Madison Bumgarner and rode him hard and put him away wet.
If the 2014 season was replayed 100 times, the 2014 Giants wouldn't make the playoffs 95 times out of 100. Hey, but they did and they found a way to win.
They still weren't among the top five best teams in baseball in 2014, and accidentally winning the World Series unfortunately doesn't change that.
2 days, 15 hours ago on Conversation @ http://thegiantscove.com/2015-archives/cut-rate-replacements-at-third-base-and-left-field-save-giants-millions.html
I always go back to player performance metrics, ballpark effects, and hitter strengths/weaknesses.
In discussing Casey McGehee, I'm not "right" or "wrong". The numbers he has put up over his career are what define his performance-- it's up to us to do the research and get those facts.
Too many Giant fans (and I'm not referring to you, Mark) have adopted a kind of "let's hope" attitude about the less expensive, marginal players the Giants often sign and their performance. Rather than simply looking up and quantifying the player's performance history.
One of the things we love about baseball is that it's a treasure trove of stats, metrics, and player histories.
But season after season, the Giants front office counts on their fans buying into thinking that marginal players like Nate Schierholtz, or John Bowker, or Brandon Hicks, or Nori Aoki, or Casey McGehee, (and on and on) might actually perform radically differently than they have over their entire careers.
Is it possible? Sure, winning the state lottery is possible. Is it something to intellectually expect? Of course not.
Re Matt Cain.
There's no doubt Cain has had years where he did not receive strong run support. But like a lot of other myths the Giants put out about their players, Cain's 10 year career has not been defined or plagued by lack of run support.
Twice during his ten years Cain was in the top ten of all MLB starters in lack of run support: in 2007 when he was 1st in the Majors with a 3.16 RS, and 2008, when he was 2nd in the Majors with a 3.18 RS.
The majority of his career, Cain has had excellent to good run support: in 2012 he had the 31st best RS at 4.63; in 2010 he had the 32nd best RS in the Majors at 4.03; in 2009 Cain was 20th overall in RS with a 4.18.
As noted before, Matt Cain has a 95-95 career record, and maybe he could have had a few more wins. As with every starting pitcher, that stat evens out over a long career.
Madison Bumgarner had the 8th highest run support in the Majors in 2014-- so by that same thinking, his 18-10 win-loss record likely should have been much better.
3 days, 17 hours ago on Conversation @ http://thegiantscove.com/2015-archives/cut-rate-replacements-at-third-base-and-left-field-save-giants-millions.html
Giants fans have to wonder why Sandoval took $95 million from the Red Sox instead of $100 million from the Giants. I don't think the green monster had anything to do with it. How badly he was treated by the Giants' front office had everything to do with it.
Nori Aoki's defense is good only if you compare it to how badly Michael Morse's defense was in the outfield.
Remember, during the World Series Kansas City Manager Ned Yost sat Aoki down in Games 2, 3, 4, and 5, and substituted for him late in Games 1 and 6. Lorenzo Cain played more innings in right field than Aoki because Aoki's defense is not very good.
I have to disagree with the idea that, because Casey McGehee is not a home run hitter, playing 81 games in AT&T Park will work out well for him.
The trouble is, Casey McGehee isn't an extra base hitter. He had a slugging % of .346 in 2011, .358 in 2012, and .357 in 2014.
The average slugging percentage for all MLB hitters in 2014 was .386.
Since the Giants PR machine and their broadcasters will be trying to paint McGehee as another Aubrey Huff, here's what Huff did for the Giants in 2010: .506 slugging %, .891 OPS, 35 doubles, 26 HR. No matter what you hear, McGehee is no Aubrey Huff, and AT&T Park will not help him at all.
I agree with you about Buster Posey. He should be moved to 3rd base or to first base (and move Brandon Belt to left field). Now that the Giants have lost their best run producer (Sandoval) and one of their best home run hitters (Morse), they can't survive with Buster Posey playing only 90% of the season.
Angel Pagan has been one of my favorite Giant players for several years. I would love to see him back at 100%, but it's probably not happening. (And I hope I am dead wrong.)
As for Matt Cain I fully expect that he's completely recovered and will get back to where he was. The issue with Cain is this is where he was: he has a life-time 7.5 SO/9 and 3.0 BB/9 and gives up an average of 20 home runs a year. His career record is 95-95.
4 days, 17 hours ago on Conversation @ http://thegiantscove.com/2015-archives/cut-rate-replacements-at-third-base-and-left-field-save-giants-millions.html
@maxwell623 @RDyer @maxwell623
Believe me, for Ryan Vogelsong this was strictly a buyers market, and certainly not a sellers market.
He was lucky to have any interest in him-- he isn't even a 5th starter anymore.
Word is he did not fully pass his medical with Houston and the Giants jumped in. Why? Because they are focused in paying off former players who (apparently) helped the team before.
It's like the Giants have a pension program for current players who aren't functional any more. What a great way to spend what little money you are devoting to spend on player acquistition.
If the Giants had signed Jon Lester, Tim Lincecum would still have been in the starting rotation. If they had signed Lester, San Francisco probably wouldn't have spent the ridiculous $24 million they spent on Jake Peavy.
Lincecum is not going to the bullpen. Ain't gonna happen for a player making $18 million.
6 days, 14 hours ago on Conversation @ http://thegiantscove.com/2015-archives/cut-rate-replacements-at-third-base-and-left-field-save-giants-millions.html
There is zero chance Lincecum starts 2015 in the bullpen because owners and general managers don't sign a pitcher for $35 million over two years and put him in the bullpen.
Even for the San Francisco Giants that would be humiliating.
Think about it, the highest paid closer in baseball is Jonathan Papelbon, who makes $13 million a year. Newly signed White Sox closer David Robertson just got a 4 year $46 million deal ($11.5 million a year avg.)-- so that's the marketplace for elite closers.
To put a wildly less talented pitcher like Lincecum into the middle of a bullpen when he will make $18 million in 2015 would make San Francisco's front office and ownership look like total idiots.
Lincecum would have to completely melt down to get moved from the starting rotation, but here's what will really happen-- Lincecum can have a bad year, maybe go 8-15, and still stay in the starting rotation. Because he won't be 8-15 until the end of September.
You can hide a bad and expensive starting pitcher's contract much better in the starting rotation.
6 days, 21 hours ago on Conversation @ http://thegiantscove.com/2015-archives/cut-rate-replacements-at-third-base-and-left-field-save-giants-millions.html
A bold positive move would have been to sign Colby Rasmus, play him in center field and move Angel Pagan to left.
That would have actually improved the offensive, immensely improved the defense in center and left, and created less wear and tear on Pagan's back and legs.
But under Giants GM Brian Sabean this franchise almost never makes bold moves. They do spend a lot of time and money, however, rewarding marginal players like Aubrey Huff, Travis Ishikawa, Andres Torres, Gregor Blanco, Ryan Vogelsong, and on and on.
Again, after the Giants lost out on Ben Zobrist, Chase Headley, Pablo Sandoval, Michael Morse, Jed Lowrie, Jon Lester, Ervin Santana, Yasmany Tomas (all of whom, and more, they actively went after) I think it's easy to say, "Whew, I am glad we didn't sign [fill in the blank]."
But if any of those players had been been signed, the Giants PR machine would have cranked out the usual positive oatmeal and Giants fans would be dutifully regurgitating that Headley or Zobrist or Lester or Sandoval, etc. was a great signing.
Forget for a second that San Francisco's ownership has an obligation to their fans to field a top and competitive 25 and 40 man roster every season. And to create legitimate buzz (not PR fake buzz) and excitement about the 2015 season. Forget all that.
Except for a couple of star players, just think how completely dull and uninteresting this team looks.
1 week ago on Conversation @ http://thegiantscove.com/2015-archives/cut-rate-replacements-at-third-base-and-left-field-save-giants-millions.html
@tmcd76 tmcd-- excellent points! I disagree with a number of them but valid and very well expressed.
To your points:
1. Your are correct, McGehee will make a little more than his projected 2015 salary. And we both completely agree he's cheap. But for some strange reason that thrills you.
I'm not thrilled at all with getting a cheap player like McGehee. His signing makes me wonder why a "championship" team like the Giants continues to sign inexpensive, throwaway players and make them starters.
2. You say you never knew they (the Giants) offered Pablo Sandoval more than the Boston Red Sox.
They did, as reported by national MLB reporters (see my previous blogs for the specific references).
Boston and the Giants both offered Sandoval $95 million for five years. Then the Giants offered to up it to $100 million. Panda said "no thanks" and took off for Boston for $95 million.
I have heard a lot of Giants fans make the following comments: "Thank god we didn't spend all that money for Sandoval [or for Jon Lester, or Chase Headley, and so on]".
But, as you well know, those same Giant fans would have happily celebrated if the team had signed Sandoval, or Lester, or Headley, etc.
I know that's human nature, but it's also rationalizing and hypocrisy.
3. "At least he's [Aoki] cheap?" That's the best you can say about the Aoki signing and you're OK with that?
I totally agree with you about Colby Rasmus-- given the fact that the Giants let virtually every other talented outfielder be signed by other teams this off-season, Rasmus would have been an interesting signing. A center fielder with some power-- just what San Francisco needs.
I think your description of what the Giants have done the past five years as "winning, but boring" is really accurate.
As cheap and accidental as it's been, the San Francisco Giants have been World Champions three times in recent years.
But as a fan I am torn between the celebration of that and my disappointment in the cut-rate way the franchise operates, and the condescending way that Giants ownership treats their fans.
One last note. I am constantly trying to encourage Giants fans to actually look at stats and Giants team history before just repeating incorrect statements.
The "Sandoval is too fat" stories all came from the Giants front office to the media simply as a way to knock down the price of his contracts. Virtually all the excellent stats Sandoval put up that got him a $95 million contract came when the Giants were saying "he's too fat".
It was all PR bull, but for some reason many Giants fans still parrot that front office hype.
Regarding Barry Zito. Fans love to point to Zito as the reason you don't sign players to large contracts. You know, because of the Zito thing all large contracts are bad.
[We're back to being happy when the Giants' billionaire ownership group doesn't spend money-- they split it up as profit at the end of the season. Still happy?]
History lesson-- In 2012 Barry Zito went 15-8 with a 1.389 WHIP and was a key reason the Giants even made it to the 2012 post season.
Then Zito beat St. Louis in the NLCS (7.2 IP no runs), and then beat Detroit in Game 1 of the World Series, giving up one run in 5.2 IP.
Did Zito have some bad years? Sure. Was he worth it given his excellent performance in 2012? Hell yes!
1 week, 3 days ago on Conversation @ http://thegiantscove.com/2015-archives/cut-rate-replacements-at-third-base-and-left-field-save-giants-millions.html
Maxwell I grudgingly agree with you. But I'm always hoping the Giants will start to act like a championship franchise instead of a bunch of cheap, lucky losers who backed into a couple of World Series wins.
And I will always be analytical and critical (i.e., "thoughtful") about the Giants and what they do on and off the field.
Even though management's embarrassing branding/fan manipulation campaign appears to be working ("Hey, cool, we got Andres back!"), I will not give up hope that the fans will stop drinking the koolaid and start acting like they actually know baseball.
Why do you think the Giants are never part of serious discussions on the MLB Network, FoxSports, ESPN, etc.? Why do you think players don't want to sign with San Francisco unless the Giants overpay them? (And even then they're not signing with San Francisco.)
Happy to sign with San Francisco are the sub-par players no else wants. Milwaukee and Kansas City both dumped Nori Aoki; Miami couldn't wait to replace third baseman Casey McGehee, who no MLB team signed for the 2013 season.
But I will always reserve hope that the San Francisco Giants ownership and front office gets back to real baseball. And that they become the classy, World Champions they should be.
1 week, 4 days ago on Conversation @ http://thegiantscove.com/2015-archives/cut-rate-replacements-at-third-base-and-left-field-save-giants-millions.html
I think you, me, and a lot of Giant fans hoped the front office would make a serious move for Zobrist.
I understand that GM Brian Sabean holds on tight to the four or five exceptional prospects in San Francisco's entire farm system, but at some point you have to be proactive to move forward.
Again, picking up Ben Zobrist and either Cole Hamels or James Shields would have really turned the offseason around. But no go. Another great pick-up for Oakland.
I am still willing (and hoping) to be surprised before Opening Day 2015.
2 weeks, 4 days ago on Conversation @ http://thegiantscove.com/2015-archives/giants-2015-blueprint-save-money-manage-compliant-fan-base.html
Excellent. You have done well grasshopper.
I prodded you to do some actual research-- maybe I can get even more Giant fans
to actually look stuff up, and get into the objective performance metrics that
provide real information about players and teams.
The next important step would be for Giant fans to stop regurgitating the frequent
nonsense that San Francisco's front office, and the local sports and broadcast
media, put out about the players and the team.
is much to correct in your comments, but I want to tread lightly because you are
making progress and I want to nourish that.
But two items
have to be addressed.
didn’t say that winning World Series teams don’t have individual players who perform
well in the Series. That’s why they have a Series MVP award at the end.
what I actually said: “Teams that win a World Series don't just have a ‘small
core of players playing well; and wouldn't be a top team if they only had ‘contributions
from others players here and there’."
I agree with
you that the 2014 Giants had only “small core of players” playing well. But virtually
every other team from 2004-2014 had both high performing players as well as the
kind of team play that made them a “top team” all season.
The full 162 game season determines which teams are one of the top performing teams
in baseball. The teams I noted above were top teams in those years.
And that’s what they
brought into the playoffs and World Series.
the rest of your perspective: virtually everything that happens in baseball is
an accident. You never expect the Giants to do well, and never expect Giant
players to play championship baseball.
When they do, you’re shocked and surprised. And that’s
what separates our thinking.
expect the Giants organization to put a winning team on the field every year.
Now more than ever. And I expect the players who wear the Giant uniform to be the
best at what they do.
I am not
surprised when a winning team with top players succeeds and does great things during the season and in the playoffs.
imagine Yankees fans, Cardinals fans, or Boston Red Sox fans not expecting
their teams to excel, to reach the top, and to dominate? And being surprised
when they do?
Giants franchise has a long way to go to achieve that.
1 month ago on Conversation @ http://thegiantscove.com/2014-articles/giants-off-season-a-nasty-mix-of-rejection-and-incompetance.html
@paulfromturlock @RDyer @maxwell623
This winter must be tough in Turlock because it seems your baseball judgement is a little bit frozen over.
To your first point about the Giants winning the 2014 World Series, and that it's "no more accidental than many other past winners."
That's simply not true.
When we make a statement like that it's always nice to actually quantify it, so it we can't be accused of pulling it out of thin air (or other places).
Let's look at the World Series winners from 2004 to 2014.
In that time almost every Series champion team was perceived as one of the best teams during the season, had quality pitching depth, and had potent hitters 1 through 8 in their lineups.
Examples of "non-accidental" teams winning the Series in that period include the Red Sox (who won three), St. Louis (who won two Series), the 2012 Giants, the 2009 Yankees, the 2008 Phillies, and the 2005 White Sox.
The 2010 Giants were second tier (and qualified for the playoffs on the last day the regular season), but they had great young pitching.
The 2014 Giants had none of these attributes, and managed to win. And that just doesn't happen much at all (thankfully).
Teams that win a World Series don't just have a "small core of players" playing well; and wouldn't be a top team if they only had "contributions from others players here and there."
Giant fans have been trained to want, and fully embrace, mediocre and marginal players who occasionally do something.
And for some strange unknown reason, many Giants fans also love it when San Francisco's billionaire owners group doesn't spend money anywhere near commensurate with the team's revenue streams and overall worth.
Your comment perfectly illustrates the negative morass the country is suffering through because of mindless partisan politics.
So everything (everything) is defined through the narrow and pejorative lens of right versus left, democrat versus republican, republican versus far right wackos.
The great thing is, when stuff like this is written down and put out in public, it's inherent lack of logic becomes crystal clear.
Here are the real reasons why professional athletes from MLB, the NFL, the NBA, and the NHL sign contracts with teams in various cities:
1. The money.
And anyone who still really believes that players bond with home town fans, and as a result will then take $5 million, $10 million, or $20 million less to play there, needs some serious Jack Daniels therapy.
2. Special relationships with management.
The Jon Lester signing is a prime example. He bonded with Red Sox exec Theo Epstein when he moved from triple AAA to the Red Sox in 2006. The San Francisco Giants offered him the same (and maybe more) money. But the relationship was the decider.
You may make a million or two more with one team, but another team offering you less may give you a spot in the starting rotation-- which you believe will eventually lead to #1 above.
Don't get me wrong. Giants' ownership has set up a "no baseball--adult funhouse" environment that is a turn off to serious athletes. But this is a team than can certainly buy mediocre players-- the latest example being signing Jake Peavy to a $24 million two year contract.
As far as the West Coast/San Francisco, if you're standing, please sit down because I'm guessing this will come as a shock.
New York City, Philadelphia, Los Angeles, San Antonio, Atlanta, Miami, Chicago, and a large number of other large cities in the north, east, south, southwest, and central parts of the country are tolerant, and liberal to moderate.
Certainly far from the imagined right wing environment you imagine pervades the country.
That environment, I'm guessing, includes everyone owning and using guns, cracking down on all those uppity minorities, and certain books being burned in the central square.
Now why would anyone not want to take their family to that kind of environment?
@MikeLyons2 @RDyer @alexizzle88
I love your passion for the Giants! I respect the devotion you show to your team (to our team) but you have to understand that I also respect intelligent analysis and being thoughtful about what's really happening.
Let me address each of your several points:
1) "This is the most ridiculous article on baseball I have ever read."
Given the shear amount of ridiculous articles written in any given day/week/month/year/decade about baseball, I am honored.
As hard as it is to write something profound about baseball, to write anything that is the most "ever" in any category is truly an accomplishment.
When do I receive the actual award?
2) "The Giants are the model for success. They are very much respected."
Wrong on both counts here, buddy.
The only other team in baseball that remotely matches the Giants in terms of branding over baseball is the Philadelphia Phillies.
Like Giants fans, Phillie fans are the only other fan base in baseball that bonds with players to the extent that their nicknames and cute back-stories mean more than their actual stats and performance.
Also, if you've been watching MLBTV, ESPN, and any other sport media, there is little respect for the Giants out there.
Like you, I don't like that, but it's well deserved.
And why have so many players refused to come to SF to play? (Read the blog, dude.)
3) "Poor farm system? What about Joe Panik?"Here's the bad news. Each team drafts about 60 players every year. Since 2010, that means the Giants drafted about 300 players.
Since the Giants have brought up and kept about ten players in that time, it gives you an idea of how badly they have drafted.
San Francisco is rated in the bottom 50% of MLB farm systems by Baseball America, and are rated lower by other analysts.
PS-- I love Joe Panik. No power, no speed, but great glove and a dead singles hitter. He is a keeper!
4) "Best ballpark in baseball."
Again, I love your loyalty, but fans in Pittsburgh, Seattle, Cincinnati, Chicago (Cubs), Boston, San Diego, and Baltimore also think their stadiums are "the best". And they're as right as you are.
5) Your final statement is the common, "Three in five, three in five, three in five" mantra that is starting to sound shallow.
Your are right-- dammit, the Giants have won three of the last five World Series!
But they have the richest ownership group in all of baseball-- much more money than the Dodgers or the Yankees combined. And they don't spend it, they divide it up as profit at the end of each season.
I think you and I agree that Giant fans deserve a true championship organization-- not just a series of cheap teams that barely make it into the post season every year.
1 month, 1 week ago on Conversation @ http://thegiantscove.com/2014-articles/giants-off-season-a-nasty-mix-of-rejection-and-incompetance.html
I also credit Manager Bruce Bochy and pitching coach Dave Righetti with doing a masterful job with the players they've been given. And I credit the players who have performed-- during the season and in the playoffs.
Even though I am not happy with the overall direction the franchise is headed, I also tip my cap to GM Brian Sabean for cobbling together teams that do just enough to win.
The question I wrestle with: is barely getting into the post season and (as many analysts are saying) accidentally winning the World Series good enough?
Well, yes and no.
Yes in that if you are a fan of a team you want that team to win and succeed.
No in that putting a solid winning team on the field each season, and fixing a broken minor league system, is what the best teams do. It's what high end professional organizations do.
Slapping together random groups of cheap players every year, around a small core of several outstanding players, isn't what i want.
Every Giants fan has to be asking themselves what the hell happened this off-season. Either the front office is inept or there are reasons why players don't want to come to San Francisco.
I think it's both.
And the phenomenon of not being able to sign players isn't new.
For a number of years quality ball players have kissed off coming to San Francisco-- unless the money was way above market value. The Giants PR machine has worked hard to convince fans that it's because AT&T is a "pitchers" ballpark. But that's not it.
And I know Giants fans will hold their hands over their ears whenever difficult questions are asked about how this team is run, and chant "Three in five, three in five, three in five."
But even that starts to ring hollow.
What about signing so many cheap, mediocre players? "Three in five, three in five."
Why are the Giants, by far the richest franchise in baseball, refusing to spend money? "Three in five, three in five."
Quality players continue to refuse to sign with the Giants? "Three in five, three in five."
The current Giants ownership has turned the Giants franchise into Disney World. It's not about real baseball, it's all about fluff and branding over baseball. And, sadly, most Giants fans happily eat it up.
Why would seriously talented baseball players want to play for that kind of organization?
If you would have told me in October that San Diego would be picking up Wil Myers, Matt Kemp, and Justin Upton I would likely have required medical attention on the spot.
And the Pads are not done-- they still have several high quality outfielders to trade for even more assets.
I secretly wished that the Giants would go after Myers, who I think will develop into a dominant run producer in the National League. But it didn't happen.
With the hundreds of millions in revenue the Giants generate each season, with the richest ownership group in the Major Leagues, with the recent successes in the postseason-- how does this franchise not build an actual championship team for their fan base.
I think I know why.
The Giants have discovered their fans will buy into mediocre players if the front office brands those players with a nickname and a simple back story the fans can bond with. So when they read GM Brian Sabean or Ass't GM Bobby Evans tell reporters left field is not a priority, that Gregor Blanco and Juan Perez can handle it, what's the fan reaction?
"Cool, Gregor's back. Now, can we get Vogey and Isshi back too?"
Actual baseball talent and production? Not important. And here's the best part: mediocre players are cheap, so the revenue distribution to the Giants' ownership group at the end of each season is sweet.
Good catch. As you correctly point out, the Wednesday September 30, 2015 game with LA is not the Giants' final 2015 game with the Dodgers, nor is it the final game of the 2015 season.
The Giants actually play the Dodgers on Thursday October 1st, then have a three game series with the Rockies-- Friday October 2nd, Saturday October 3rd, and Sunday October 4th.
That October 4th game against Colorado is actually the final game of the 2015 season. The odd thing is the Giants 2015 schedule, with the correct dates, is hyperlinked in the article.
Hopefully any future postings from TiqIQ will be better researched.
1 month, 2 weeks ago on Conversation @ http://thegiantscove.com/2014-articles/previewing-the-top-3-games-for-giants-tickets.html
For sure! Goodbye Romo and Morse, hello... who?
3 months, 2 weeks ago on Conversation @ http://thegiantscove.com/
The Giants have a number of hard calls to make for 2015.
The overall call is, do they continue with the following formula: slap together good pitching with a couple of real run producers, then fill the rest of the 25 man roster out with marginal, low-cost players.
Many Giant fans would say, "Hey, look where we are-- it works!". Which is music to the ears of Giants ownership and management, who have kept their payroll way below where it should be for being a high revenue team worth $1 billion.
To discuss your specific points, I don't think Scutaro will ever be a starter again. Since San Francisco's bench has been terrible the past several years having Scutaro on the bench would be a great plus.
Joe Panik is an excellent defender and a high average hitter. The Giants have to decide whether or not they can live with his lack of power every day at second base-- which likely means a sub-par OPS.
I have said all year that the Giants need to sign Pablo Sandoval to a multi-year deal close to his market price. He will command a 6 or 7 year deal at about $20 million and he is worth every penny.
The weight issue (your first post above) is, to me, irrelevant. The Giants front office has been pounding the weight "problem" in the media for the last two years simply as a way to drive down his value and sign him cheap.
Well that didn't work. And now San Francisco is about to lose their #1 offensive piece.
I would still like to see Buster Posey moved to 3rd base (and a signed Pablo moved to 1st base, with Brandon Belt in left), or Posey moved to first base (with Brandon Belt moved to left field and a signed Sandoval at 3rd).
The weight issue is a sham-- Sandoval produced all the great offensive numbers and excellent defense that will bring him a huge contract during his "weight problem" years.
There's a lot of conflicting issues for thinking Giants fans to deal with here.
I cherish and respect the 2010 and 2012 World Series Championships, but a winning franchise, a franchise committed to excellence doesn't continually rely on referencing its past glories.
All I've heard from the Giants and the Orange Party robots is-- "Hey, dude, we won two World Series in the past (three, four, and now) five years."So deal with it. Like, you know, yeah... ."
The Series wins in 2010 and 2012 are now history. Since then Giant ownership has cashed that check a thousand times and bled that history dry.
Here's what they have done: they have put together cheap teams with washed up veterans and over-the-hill players that they present as magically talented. The Brandon Hicks and Dan Uggla embarrassments are the 2014 versions of that.
Sadly, Giants ownership decided to grab as much revenue as possible in the 2011, 2013 and now 2014 seasons. Instead of moving forward and building a permanent winning franchise.
Here's the stale formula that Giants ownership and management believes works:
1. Continually reference 2010 and 2012 to shut down any criticism.
2. Bring washed up minor league players (Brett Pill, etc.), or fringe Major League players (Brandon Hicks, etc.) to the 25 man roster.
Have the broadcasting team and local media put out the word that these players are a great find. They never are, but that buys time while you're paying those players the League minimum.
3. Use the broadcasters and front office to distribute the following idiotic propaganda to the fan base: "Hey, all we have to do is make the postseason, then, like, you know, anything can happen."
Right. Cheap, poorly put together teams often get into the postseason, and then frequently get to the World Series. If I hear that embarrassing phrase one more time I'm going to loose my garlic fries.
4. Even though the Giants ownership is the wealthiest in all of Major league Baseball and US pro sports, pretend you have a "player salary budget" each season that you can't exceed.
At the same time have the local media make nasty comments about teams like the Dodgers, and how rich they are and how they spend so much money on players.
And you know what? So far it's working! The fan base is more concerned with hearing about the players' stories and finding out their nicknames than with demanding that a winning team be put on the field.
4 months, 1 week ago on Conversation @ http://thegiantscove.com/2014-articles/dodgers-and-giants-meet-to-address-crunch-time.html
@maxwell623 See the blog above. I suspected that Giants ownership would let Sandoval go instead of paying him what he's worth, and Peter Gammons is unofficially confirming that.
And it's too bad.
Too bad because the Giants need more offense not less. Management is apparently satisfied with an everyday line-up that has only four front-line hitters. They're apparently also satisfied with a shortstop who has a .669 lifetime OPS, hits under .250 every year, and leads all MLB shortstops in errors.
What Giants ownership actively wants is to hold the line on payroll to keep the year-end bottom line as high as possible for the ownership group. (Which, by the way, they have every right to do. I just wish they wouldn't every now and then.)
And I always note the following (especially for those who sneer at the LA Dodgers big payroll): the San Francisco Giants have the richest ownership group in all of Major League Baseball, and in all of pro sports. Period.
So money, and that phantom "player salary budget" San Francisco trots out every year, ain't the problem.
And that means no Sandoval, no bench, and get as many marginal players (Blanco, Hector Sanchez, Travis Ishikawa) and as many low-paid rookies (Panik, Susac, Adam Duvall, Matt Duffy, Juan Perez) on the 25 man roster as possible.
The Giants continue to substitute player branding ("Timmy!, Vogey!, Huddy!, Ishi!") for a winning 25 man roster because that sells out AT&T Park and moves those garlic fries and brats.
I basically agree with you. The Giants probably won't come near Melky Cabrera in the off-season. But they should.
San Francisco is wary of revisiting the negative public relations over Cabrera's use of PEDs in 2012, especially since the Giants are in the process of trying to carefully, slowly bring Barry Bonds back into the organization.
Having Melky Cabrera anywhere in the same general area as Bonds at any time is a non-starter.
And there's a lot at stake here. The Giants desperately need to sign an offensive left fielder with a good glove for 2015 and beyond. But Brian Sabean recently publicly stated he "is in love with" Michael Morse. Which probably means the Giants will likely overpay Morse in a three year deal and their offense will suffer.
4 months, 2 weeks ago on Conversation @ http://thegiantscove.com/
The "truth" you're referring to is that all my posts are "BS". But you don't give any of your own opinions about the Giants, or present any alternative evidence to refute or counter my opinions.
Other than the eloquent "2muchBS".
What I am guessing is that you are a fan of the San Francisco Giants. And I'm getting that you disagree with my opinions. But, of course, disagreeing with another fan is not enough-- there also has to be 8th grade school yard name-calling,
You know, because that really shows how right you are and how wrong the other person is.
The only thing that "hurts" when I get these kinds of comments is the disrespect some Giants fans dump on other Giant fans with whom they happen to disagree.
4 months, 4 weeks ago on Conversation @ http://thegiantscove.com/
A great combination: name calling with the valuable addition of no specific opinions or reasons detailing exactly why the above article is incorrect.
And the name on the posting is also interesting. "Too much BS". I guess the amount of BS put out by the Giants front office is OK, but any additional BS is "too much"?
All Giants fans should wake up and smell the following flowers: we have the richest ownership group not only in Major League Baseball, but in all of professional sports. Yet fans continue to buy into their player salary "budget restraints" fairy tales.
So the team continually signs cheap retreads like Brandon Hicks and pretends they're talented; then wastes millions to re-sign fan favorites like Tim Lincecum. If that's the kind of franchise management you're happy with, congratulations because that's what you've got.
The San Francisco Giants management I want is one that invests and builds for the future, stops signing players simply because they're fan favorites, and puts a quality 25 man roster on the field every game.
@Robert Haymond @3rdGenerationGiantsFan
I think that Robert and 3rd Generation Giants Fan are on the same page.
The San Francisco Giants are my team, but after the 2012 season the franchise has been mishandled.
Because of the 2010 and 2012 World Series Championships, ownership assumed that whatever they do is OK-- as Giant fans our job is to simply to smile and fill AT&T Park.
I don't believe that Giant fans have the responsibility to somehow change the direction of ownership. I think Larry Baer and the ownership group are smart people who will see what's happened and make the necessary changes to make the San Francisco Giants a competitive MLB team again.
Because it's in their self-interest to do so.
6 months ago on Conversation @ http://thegiantscove.com/
WW- several things you commented on were incorrect. Specifically those things between the first word of your comment and the last word.
1) Actually the Giants could care less about the A's. In point of fact, having an American League team in the same area profits both the A's and the Giants.
2) Only once in the history of Major League Baseball has the Baseball Commissioner's Office given a written confirmation of a team's "territorial rights".
That was in 1990, when then-Giants owner Bob Lurie wanted to
move the Giants to San Jose. Oakland A's owner Walter Haas gave his consent to the Giants having "rights" to San Jose/Santa Clara County. Major League Baseball added that to their official constitution.
Lurie’s deal collapsed, the Giants kept the rights to Santa Clara
3) There are no more "big markets" and "small markets" in Major League Baseball. So there's no reason for the Giants to somehow want the A's "to rot in a crummy stadium" in Oakland.
Today every MLB team receives millions in revenue each year from MLB for national media contracts, revenue sharing, and percentages when franchises are sold. If you own a Major League team (whether it's the Yankees or the Oakland A's) you get checks from MLB that total over $100 million just for owning that team.
The rest (selling tickets, local radio and TV contracts, concessions, parking, etc.) is all extra revenue each individual team generates.
As far as the A's "having a better team", it's true in 2014-- but the 2010 and 2012 World Series Championships demonstrate that which franchise is better at any given time is cyclical.
The "fun and entertainment" trend at AT&T Park (and a growing trend in a number of other baseball stadiums) is starting to be an issue. The idea is, "Come to the ballpark and you'll have fun, whether or not the team wins or has the talent to play quality baseball."
One part of me thinks franchise owners are essentially saying the game is not enough-- that the fans need to be distracted with racing cable cars and "find the baseball" videos on the scoreboard, as well as a barrage of loud music and various other shiny objects flashing on the big screen.
But the business-of-the-game part of me understands that the idea is to attract as many fans as possible, keep them engaged, and give them an experience that will make them want to come back.
Expanding your core demographic not only creates more revenue, it expands the scope of your revenue streams. So you're not just selling hot dogs, garlic fries and beer, you're also selling a great place to party and have a good time with friends and family.
In that model, as management might argue, there's room for hardcore baseball fans and room for people who don't follow baseball but want to have fun.
Besides, that's also how you create more hardcore baseball fans.
P from T, I do agree with you on this: it is somewhat disconcerting to be at AT&T Park with the Giants down 8-2 in the 7th inning and have people laughing and dancing in the stands like nothing was happening on the field.
The Giants have immediate needs in the outfield, at second base, and (maybe most urgently) on the bench. What I would rather have them do is begin to address these needs in a coherent, long-term way rather than with calculated PR moves like signing Dan Uggla.
The Giants front office has demonstrated they can't multitask solutions-- everything is linear and geared to keep the fan base happy.
There's no doubt that San Francisco can't fix all of these issues at the 2014 non-waiver trade deadline. But at least start the process, because if they don't, the team will be haunted with these same problems in 2015.
I addressed specifically what they should do a couple of blogs ago, in "Giants Have a Window to Begin Rebooting for 2015".
As far as Pablo Sandoval, either sign him to a multi-year extension or trade him before he hits free agency at the end of this season. I think they should extend Sandoval because he's one of the best hitters in the National League, but either way ownership needs to be proactive.
I've also written several separate articles about the fact that the Giants have the wealthiest ownership group in the Majors, bank millions in MLB revenue each season, and yet still try to present themselves as a "small market" team with budget constraints.
6 months, 1 week ago on Conversation @ http://thegiantscove.com/
@JohnOrfanides @RDyer @Sabean Wannabe @Donner Party
"McCarthyism" is a term that describes making accusations of
disloyalty, subversion, or treason without evidence or proof.
It also describes the practice of making unfair allegations or using unfair
investigative techniques, especially in order to restrict dissent or
The term has its origins in the period in the United States known as the "red scare" lasting roughly from 1950 to 1956 and characterized by a campaign of fear that spread paranoia throughout American institutions.
Originally coined to criticize the fake anti-communist rants of Senator Joseph McCarthy of Wisconsin,
"McCarthyism" soon took on a broader meaning, describing the excesses
of similar efforts to create fear for political gain.
The term is now generically used to describe
reckless, unsubstantiated accusations, as well as racist and demagogic attacks on the character or patriotism of political adversaries.
Sure, McCarthy was right.
6 months, 3 weeks ago on Conversation @ http://thegiantscove.com/2014-articles/injuries-finally-find-giants-but-give-bochy-an-assist.html
That lack of depth is the theme I've been pounding since Spring Training.
Two things that make this extra frustrating: first, the people running the Giants are smart and have a recent track record of success. How do they start the season with a team constructed like this?
Second, San Francisco has the wealthiest ownership in baseball, and they have millions in revenue coming in each year. It's probably time to stop making jokes about the money other franchises are spending to both build up their minor league systems and put winning big league teams on the field.
Each season the San Francisco front office creates an artificial player salaries "budget", and tells the media and the fans that they just can't go above that number. And, for some reason, everyone buys that fairytale.
7 months ago on Conversation @ http://thegiantscove.com/2014-articles/lack-of-depth-highlights-the-giants-current-tailspin.html
@Robert Haymond @TomGreybalt @RDyer
As someone who is not totally unfamiliar with writing some wet analysis, I know how hard it is sometimes to separate enthusiastic support for the Giants and also do reality checks about what's really happening.
I'm guessing Robert, Maxwell, Tom and I have the bond of being devoted fans of the San Francisco Giants. And there is no one approved way for every Giants fan to express their feelings for and commitment to the team.
For me the idea is to balance respect for the bond and respect for differing opinions and disagreement.
Great catch serfdog! The correction has been made. And I now have gotten a grip!
TG, you are either making up numbers or unclear how to get the stats. Because the Giants' slash line for the 1-8 losing stretch was actually .289/.337/.400. (Although you did get the ESPN 2014-to-date stats correct.)
It's easy to isolate any designated games to get this information. So the real numbers better support your argument (above), but that argument entirely misses the point.
As modern baseball metrics have demonstrated, batting average ("hitting better") doesn't equal winning more ballgames. The ability to score runs often does not equate with a higher team batting average, as we saw clearly during San Francisco's recent 1 and 8 losing stretch.
Glad you think that line-up construction doesn't matter and shows baseball ignorance. So that leaves me in the company of people like Tony La Russa, Bill James, and Bruce Bochy-- all of whom think that line-up construction is extremely important. You and I will also disagree on the critical importance of a Major League bench (because it's really important).
As for the "Giants anti-fans", I am continually amazed why some people feel they have to repeatedly declare that they are the real, true Giants fan. And other so-called Giants fans aren't (so let's get 'em!).
And it's so easy to spot those fake Giants fans: they question, they honestly analyze, they discuss. Anyone with an opinion contrary to the mindless Orange Party line can't possibly be a true fan. Because real fans don't need to think, they're fan robots.
Like those fake Giants fans Duane Kuiper and Mike Krukow!
It's true! I've heard them criticize the Giants on radio and TV! I have also heard them say even more traitorous things, like Yasiel Puig is the most exciting young player in the National League, or the Dodgers new ownership has done great things for LA fans.
Can you believe that! And I thought they were real SF Giants fans. You know, like you.
7 months, 1 week ago on Conversation @ http://thegiantscove.com/2014-articles/lack-of-depth-highlights-the-giants-current-tailspin.html
I'm glad you brought up "ill informed". Turns out the Giants actually didn't hit "BETTER" during their recent 1-8 slide.
In the 64 games the Giants played prior to the 1 and 8 tumble, they scored 278 runs-- that's an average of 4.34 runs scored per game.
In the 9 games referenced in my blog they scored 35 runs-- an average of 3.88 runs per game.
If you take those 9 games (with the Nats, Rockies, and White Sox) and add the last four games (three against Arizona and one against the Padres), that's 46 runs scored in the last 13 games-- an average of 3.54 runs per game.
All of which is the opposite of "better".
It's amazing to me how Giant fans have bought into ownership's party line that Pablo Sandoval's weight is a problem that has to be solved before they sign him to another long term contract.
Sandoval put up his powerful offensive career numbers in the six seasons prior to 2014-- when his weight was supposed to be a problem holding him back. And those are the numbers that will earn him a big contract in 2014.
And I actually respect the right of Giant's ownership to be tough negotiators. They're not in the business of giving money away, and this is a savvy and smart organization. But that doesn't mean we have to buy into their attempts to bring Sandoval's price down.
A week ago, Tom Dierkes of MLB Trade Rumors rated Pablo Sandoval at #5 in his "Top Ten 2015 Free Agent Power Rankings". Let's hope the Giants sign him before that happens.
The Giants don't need former Microsoft CEO and billionaire Steve Ballmer in their ownership group.
The Giants already have the wealthiest ownership in all of baseball. According to Forbes.com, lead owner Charles Johnson is listed as the 167th wealthiest man in the world, worth $8.1 billion. The rest of San Francisco's ownership group are multi-millionaires. They could buy and sell the Dodgers' ownership group in between courses of caviar at lunch.
Having money is not the issue for the Giants' owners group. Spending it is.
@Sabean Wannabe @RDyer @SheaONeal
Answer: As I said in an earlier response in this stream, I think at times the Yankees have been the historic poster team for player overspending. Having said that, pretty soon a number of teams will pass the $300 and $350 million payroll mark. Because MLB average and top payrolls only go in one direction-- up.
And that's because, as local sports talk show host Marty Laurie has famously said many times, baseball owners are printing money. Team franchise revenues have never been better-- and not just for certain teams, but for all teams.
I think we agree that blank checks don't automatically create winning teams (and for that matter, blank checks can't instantly create the kind of team cohesiveness and strength we saw in 2010 and 2012).
But high revenue, high value teams have a responsibility to their fans to field competitive teams and not just take the money and run.
8 months ago on Conversation @ http://thegiantscove.com/2014-articles/injuries-finally-find-giants-but-give-bochy-an-assist.html
@Sabean Wannabe @RDyer @Donner Party
I have to disagree with you SW, and if you look at the comments you'll understand what I'm saying.
I only object to personal attacks when a commenter personally attacks me (or another commenter). See the "About the Giants Cove" section to see the parameters of this blog.
Any number of commenters have disagreed with me, argued against my brilliant pronouncements, or come up with a better argument. And that's cool.
Talking baseball is what this is about.
But when a commenter has to support their point of view by calling someone an idiot (or being personally disrespectful in any way), then, as Danny Glover said in the film "Silverado", "That ain't right".
I'm also enjoying that other refuge of the inadequate debater, accusing me (or anyone else) of being a Dodger fan, or a [fill-in-the-team] fan.
Classic 8th grade playground bullying.
It's like McCarthyism in the 1950s-- disagree with what I believe, and I'm callin' you a dirty commie!
More blogisphere bashing as a substitute for cogent discussion and exchange of opinions.
I am at "the shallow end of the IQ pool", my perspective is described as "your foolishness." And once again, apparently the worst thing you can say to another Giants fan is to accuse them of secretly being a Dodgers fan (cuz that'll really put 'em in their place!).
Wow. Go Giants.
As I noted above, I urge you to try this just once: give your opinions without feeling that your
opinions are so weak that they need the additional help of you personally trashing
those with opposing opinions.
Having said that...
Shea O'Neal, Yes! You are correct! I was equivocal in my comments about the sports media picking the Giants to make the playoffs. "A number" of national baseball analysts did pick the 2014 Giants to make the playoffs.
There. I said it. [And that was a nice catch, dude.]
As for my growing audience waiting breathlessly for my tomes... you all shall be rewarded as I continue to shower you with my brilliantly crafted words!
8 months, 1 week ago on Conversation @ http://thegiantscove.com/2014-articles/injuries-finally-find-giants-but-give-bochy-an-assist.html
@JoeCalabria So true. We've seen the proof of that statement with a number of New York Yankee teams over the past ten+ years. Most recently the LA Angels and Texas Rangers have tried signing a group of high end players who just never seemed to get it together, both individually and as a team.
I think the new LA Dodger ownership group came in with a mandate to immediately upgrade the Major League club and their poor minor league system. And they've done that-- they made the playoffs last season and the Dodgers' farm system is greatly improved.
But the final proof of what ownership and the front office does is results.
Look at the Giants in 2010 and 2012-- they had some of the best pitching in the Majors but they also came together as a team in each of those years to tear through the playoffs and win two World Series.
Simply throwing big money at a bunch of high end ballplayers does not create a winning team. At the same time big revenue teams like the Giants and the Cubs have a responsibility to field winning/competitive teams. The Giants did not do that in 2013, but look at 2014: the addition of two moderately-priced free agents (Tim Hudson and Michael Morse) has fired up this franchise and created a winning culture in the clubhouse.
And I know we're just past the one quarter mark of the season but the 2014 Giants are a real team-- a team that could have the legs to play in October.
@Donner Party Wonderful. Back to that tired school yard posturing and personal attacks.
Try this just once: give your opinions without feeling that your opinions are so weak that they need the additional help of you trashing the other person.
We're back to the "I'm a better Giants fan than you are" level of talking baseball. Better yet, "I'm the best Giants fan and you, you're... you're... a Dodgers' fan!"
Wow, that'll show me.
So since I have a different opinion, the above commenter also "hates" me. But, and this is the part I really like, he has discovered another way that will allow him to hate me even more. How cool is that!
One thing we both agree on: for your own well-being, you definitely need to consider staying clear of my writing. (But I still hope that you don't give up.)
Once again I urge commentors to actually read the blogs they're commenting
First, I didn't say that the Giants didn't "miss" Angel Pagan when
he went on the DL last season. Of course they missed him. What I actually said
was his loss, a) didn't cause, and b) isn't an excuse for the team finishing
16 games out of first place in with a 76-86 record.
Every winning team has
injuries (some to key players) and that's why front offices build their teams deep enough to continue winning.
The Giants' approach the past several years is to not be deep, so when players
are injured there's no effective replacements ready to step in.
Actually your comment about "few analysts" picking the Giants is
incorrect. A good number of sports media people picked the Giants to make the post season
not only this season, but also last season. Better review the picks made by ESPN,
FoxSports.com, SI.com, MLBTV.
It's always good to check before we write.
As far as the "big money, no heart" approach of the LA Dodgers,
the San Francisco Giants have the richest ownership group in Major League
Baseball. Giants Principal owner Charles Johnson is the 74th richest person in
America ($3.5 billion), and he could buy and sell the entire Dodger ownership
group in one afternoon.
The difference between the Dodgers and Giants is the
Dodgers spend their money and the Giants don't.
And I always say this about the business of baseball: MLB franchise
owners get to decide how they spend their money-- it's their money. But the game is now very
big business-- the San Francisco Giants have the fifth most valuable franchise
in baseball, worth over $1 billion; I just think they need to stop pretending to be small market.
Finally, MLB managers get to be criticized like anyone else in pro sports. Doesn't mean they're bad managers, it just means they're capable of making mistakes. And when they do they can be called on them.
And, no, you don't have to work in Major League Baseball to write and talk about the game. And you don't have to be in the film industry to criticize movies. In the real world virtually nothing works like that.
@Sabean Wannabe @Robert Haymond@Daniel_Stern
SW-- I appreciate your participation in the The Giants Cove blog. Without opposing and different viewpoints things can sometimes get stale.
But having said that, let's stick to a coherent discussion of baseball and the Giants, etc. and skip the personal attacks. Your reaction to someone disagreeing with you is to personally attack them (like accusing me of lying to my readers, or using another name to post comments on my own blog). [Sorry about that, Robert. You deserve to be accused of something much better than being me.]
And let's say what we have to say and move on. We all get it. You hate sabermetrics, for some reason you believe no one has the slightest clue whether or not the Giants talked to Masahiro Tanaka, and so on.
I want you to keep posting, but let's be respectful, and skip the caps as a way to show that you're really right and everyone else is really wrong, Your opinions and ideas stand on their own and don't need any of that.
8 months, 4 weeks ago on Conversation @ http://thegiantscove.com/uncategorized/giants-braintrust-ponders-rearrangement-of-deck-chairs.html
@Sabean Wannabe @RDyerWhy do these discussions always have to go to the "You're not a real Giants fan like I am" stuff? It's so tired.
Opposing viewpoints and opinions are what these forums are about, not proving who is or isn't a real fan. So if you disagree with me, that means my opinions are lies ("give your readers full disclosure") and no good. Wow.
The "accumulation of statistics" isn't remotely the definition of "sabermetrician". But I get it-- you really don't like sabermetrics. Cool. I still think you're a good Giants fan.
As far as St. Louis, they're one of the best run, top MLB franchises and have been for a long time. I'll tell Daniel Descalso to immediately return his World Series ring.
Again, we'll have to respectfully agree to disagree about St. Louis.
9 months ago on Conversation @ http://thegiantscove.com/uncategorized/giants-braintrust-ponders-rearrangement-of-deck-chairs.html
@Sabean Wannabe @Robert Haymond
All the teams that showed initial and ongoing interest in Tanaka were well publicized. The final three teams were the subject of a number of articles and postings.
As MLBTradeRumors.com shows, there's a lot of competition among national baseball journalists to get that kind of news and put it out. They have many inside contacts.
The Giants were not involved at all in the Tanaka bidding and did not make an offer. As I wrote at the time, Tanaka would have been a franchise changer for San Francisco.
@Sabean WannabeSW, what I am is pro offense. Offense for a team that has been at or near the bottom of the MLB offense barrel the past twelve years.
understand it's easier to downgrade Sandoval now because of his current
slump, but a team like the Giants can't casually toss one of their few
offensive pieces into the trash and expect to score runs.
also another thing. We can't keep thinking in a linear way-- that it's
either one thing or another (Sandoval or Dominguez).
makes the Oakland A's and St. Louis top franchises is they have
legitimate back-ups when players get injured or slump badly. I would
like to see the Giants bench and their minor league system start
providing quality depth behind the starting eight.
@maxwell623 @RDyer@Daniel_Stern@Robert Haymond
The cost for extending or signing established MLB players goes in only one direction: higher.
The Hunter Pence signing was a great example of that. Pence is a slightly above average "established" outfielder. The Giants kept him with a 5 year/$90 million extension.
So the going price for a slightly above average established outfielder in 2013 was about $18 million a year.
Sandoval's career average per 162 game numbers are a little better than Pence's (Sandoval has a .817 OPS, Pence a .813 OPS). Third base is a more important position to fill than right field (more fielding skills are required, there are less third basemen than outfielders available).
Sandoval also has the flexibility to play first base, which broadens his value even more. [Maybe I shouldn't have used "broadens".]
So $20 million a year for Sandoval is about right in 2014. If he becomes a free agent, expect him to get a little more. Again, he achieved his current value while being "overweight", so to all of a sudden think of his weight as a major problem seems strange.
Here's my feeling: the Giants absolutely need to sign Sandoval. He is their #1 offensive player, he plays a position that is hard to fill on the free agent market, and San Francisco has no talented offensive players with power moving through its minor league system.
Lose Sandoval and you lose a big piece of what little offense the Giants have had the past five years.
@maxwell623 @Daniel_Stern@Robert Haymond
Hey everyone. Great discussion stream on several interesting subjects. I just wanted to chime in about Pablo Sandoval.
I guessing I'm in the minority in thinking that Sandoval's weight issue is simply a PR ploy by the Giants to:
a) drive down Sandoval's potential contract extension; and/or,
b) give the Giants faithful a reason to be OK about it when the front office doesn't sign Sandoval to an extension and just cuts him loose into the free agent market in October.
Either way the team saves money. The weight issue is one the team has been straw dogging for a couple of years and I think it's simply a deliberate distraction.
I linked this excellent article by Tracy Ringolsby before, but here it is again:http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article/sf/tracy-ringolsby-giants-have-year-to-negotiate-with-pablo-sandoval?ymd=20140226&content_id=68385228
Basically it points out that Sandoval is by far the biggest offensive piece the Giants have had for years-- bigger than Buster Posey. And Sandoval put up all those numbers with his so-called weight issues.
I agree he should be fit, if not for baseball for his own health. But there is no evidence that it has diminished his capacity for producing runs. (Despite his slow start this season.)
@Daniel_Stern There are two questions here.
First, I write what interests me about the San Francisco Giants. I am not interested in the usual sports blog mindlessness, like "Sabean's a bum, he should be fired"; or, "Wow, did you see Hicks' home run yesterday... !" And so on.
I am interested in analytically discussing the team and the franchise-- where they've been historically, where they are right now, and where they're going.
I am also interested in baseball's advanced metrics and how they're changing the game; which teams are on the cutting edge and which teams are still living in the 1960s. (Hint: you and I are fans of one of those teams.)
You ask about "page views" like it's something nasty. I'm guessing everyone who has a website or posts a blog would like as many "page views" as possible. That specifically is why people post their material on the internet instead of keeping it under their pillow-- so as many people as possible can view the pages.
Going against my attorney's advice, I plead "guilty" to the charge of wanting people to read my blog.
As far as Dominguez. Panik, etc. the Giants are in a unique position. Half their starting position players are older and they currently have a non-contributing bench. San Francisco also has a poorly built farm system with a handful of promising pitchers and even fewer promising position players.
The team can get value from someone like Dominguez by not waiting for September and bringing him up now. Not only could that help refocus the bench into being an offensive asset, the Giants will also be able to determine if one or two of their young Triple A position players might actually develop value as a starter or as trade material.
There are a number of Giants' minor league players at the Triple A and Double A level who are about to get "Gary Brown-ed." Players who start out as promising, don't get developed, then simply get older and fade away.
@nilyd Sorry about being so down on the 2014 team. I can tell you it's been distracting to me-- I want a team of substance that I can believe in. Not a slapped together 25 man roster where you cross your fingers and hope substandard players accidentally have a good year.
As far as first place, in 2013 the Giants were in first place as late as May 26th (you know, when they ended up finishing third, 16 games out of first place). In 2011 they were in first place as late as August 9th. So being in first place on April 27th in 2014 is meaningless (although, better the Giants than any other team!).
As far as Santiago Casilla and Hector Sanchez falling out of favor, I was reporting what a Comcast sports guy recently mentioned sidebar in a tweet about another subject.
Apparently Giants' management is not happy with Hector Sanchez performance, especially behind the plate. And I'm thinking Santiago Casilla probably thinks he should be closing instead of Sergio Romo.
Not that San Francisco would get any real front line players for either Sanchez or Santiago, but if one or both of them could pull in several decent minor league prospects it would be worth it.
@paulfromturlock @Robert HaymondI agree that some number of other "unbalanced" teams (i.e., teams with either dominant pitching and poor run-scoring, or dominant run scoring and sub par pitching) have won the World Series.But the majority of teams getting to the World Series over the past 100 or so years did so because they had talented, well-constructed 25 man rosters. The idea that "all you have to do is somehow get into the playoffs, then anything can happen" is something teams tell their fans to keep selling tickets, jerseys and beer.
I also think the Giants' 2010 and 2012 World Series teams were different. The 2012 team had a better offense and scored more runs throughout the season. The 2010 team squeaked into the playoffs with a win over San Diego on the final day of the season.
But I agree, both the 2010 and 2012 teams had outstanding starting and bullpen pitching-- which made all the difference.
9 months, 4 weeks ago on Giant Fans Down to Two Choices: Swallow the Kool-Aid or Hit the Panic Button