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@JRsec @AllTideUp @local37220 I know some people on these boards just enjoy thinking up all these different expansion scenarios and tossing them out here. Who really knows what is going to happen with all this? Maryland and Rutgers to the B1G proved that. However I remember a few on these boards predicted it along with much that has not happened.
I have always pretty much been the same with my thinking though. I have little interest in playing or thinking up different scenarios. I think the SEC going beyond 16 will ultimately end up being a mistake. I hope the two SEC adds are FSU & Clemson. I guess the SEC would still ultimately benefit by adding VT & NCST. I feel anything outside or beyond that is a mistake for the SEC in the long run. Others do and can differ in their thinking. We shall all see in the next few years.
2 years ago on FSU A.D. Spetman Talks Openly About Switching Conferences… And The SEC
@JRsec You do not want to get me talking politics on this board again? As you know I am farther out there in right field than you are. I am sticking to sports on here for everyone's sake!
@AllTideUp @local37220 @JRsec The Pacific 12 refused Texas, TT, OU & OSU because of the LHN, Scott publicly said so. OU and OSU were refused by the Pac 12 as a twosome. I guess no one knows if Oklahoma would have been accepted by themselves? It has been rumored the SEC refused Oklahoma because OSU was attached to the deal. Now you add that GOR that lasts another 12 years. This all makes the Big 12 look pretty blame stable to me for next few years. Maybe Kansas to the B1G?
Now the ACC. Of course we all know about Maryland. It has been reported that ACC schools refused Swofford over and over on a Big 12 style GOR. You have a once boisterous bunch of pro ACC school administrators who all are now mum. The ACC school administrators who do now speak talk of an out for their respective schools if needed. FSU is a cog that can not be lost to the ACC and FSU looks shaky in the ACC at best. The future SEC and current B1G TV Network look like a sure killer to the ACC in the next several years. Long before that Big 12 GOR starts to weaken.
I do not really understand the comparisons I see on this board comparing the Big 12 and ACC. I understood why those ACC people could not figure it out when I posted this on their boards. They did not want to!
i failed to mention that SEC-B12 Sugar Bowl that Slive set up. That further strengthened the B12 to a huge degree!
@local37220 I think the scenario you stated in the second paragraph of your comment is logical and therefore highly possible in the near future for any 18 & 20 team conference.
I'll add this as reinforcement to the last sentence of your comment. What tradition do the possible SEC break-away schools you stated have with FSU, Clemson, NC State, Va. Tech, WVU and Duke/Pitt? Beyond those which are presently in state rivals? They will never establish traditions in a 20 school SEC either. There is too much distance and they will rarely play each other in that big of a league. What you state is the more than likely conclusion to the whole boondoggle.
@JRsec I fully agree with your first paragraph. However I do not feel the SEC has nearly as many brand matches and cultural fits as you stated later in your comment.
Oklahoma and the Longhorns do not match the SEC culturally at all. Oklahoma has the culture of Indian territory, still clearly visible in 2013. UT and the whole state of Texas is oil rich far beyond the scope of any southern state. East Texas Texas A&M is the only match and the SEC got them. Those Virginia and North Carolina schools do not want the SEC. They prefer ACC to all, the B1G secondly.
FSU and Clemson are cultural and brand fits for the SEC. Those are the only two. NCST might shake out as a torn Missouri type fit. UNC, UVA, VT, OU, OSU and Texas will all make Missouri look like SEC sweethearts.
It does not matter what you or I or these many posters write. This is all about money. I think nothing else much matters. The proof or test will be the longevity of these makeshift conferences. I do not think an 18 or 20 team conference sprawled out over 2/3 of the country will have the shelf life of a can of tomatoes.
For the FSU AD to be making public statements as this concerning a rival conference fully shows the dire predicament that the ACC is now in. This is the exact kind of public statements the Arkansas, South Carolina, Texas A&M and Missouri AD's made before their respective schools entered the SEC. Is FSU getting ready to enter the SEC? These kind of public statements makes it look like FSU sure has something cooked up or are badly trying to do so. Swofford must of about had a coronary when he heard this.
When or if FSU leaves the ACC it will be finished as a football conference. Clemson, VT and NCST will all know it and will look to escape at any good opportunity. I see you SEC'ers took care of one of those disillusioned ACC people further down on the board. These people care very little about football. Their basketball and scholastic fans. I think they resent the SEC as much as they love the ACC. Oh well, I was pounded with Talisman's Folly type thinking until I withdrew from their boards.
Missouri gets a lot of grief from posters on these boards as to not belonging or not fitting in the SEC. I think a lot of this is blow back to a vocal B1G element in Missouri's fan base and in a lot of cases it is just B1G fans in those surrounding northern states that make those pro Missouri in the B1G comments. Some of these SEC fans just do not know the history of Missouri and it's past relations to the South. I get tired of all the pro B1G chatter concerning Missouri as well.
Missouri has always been torn culturally in this matter all down through the history of this country. Missouri probably does not have the 90% plus type SEC support in it's fan base of the other SEC schools. However Missouri surely does have a large majority of it's fan base who fully support Missouri in the SEC. Missouri does fit in the SEC because in the South is where they have always stood. How can any SEC fan now take history out of context to now be against Missouri when they again chose the South as they always have?
2 years ago on Mizzou’s Pinkel Not Surprised By The SEC, Not Gifting QB Job Back To Franklin
@Roggespierre @BruceMcF The SEC is almost completely made up of large Land Grant universities, as is the B1G. There is no bad choice for higher education from their ranks.
2 years ago on Which Conference Will Win The Realignment War? It Depends On Your Definition Of “Win”
@BruceMcF It is snobbery to a large degree. I had those posters on those ACC boards tell me that Missouri, Vandy, Florida and Texas A&M were all gone to the B1G for the asking. I never responded to such. Too busy countering the other junk they posted. However I thought those particular comments by them were absurd.
I know I just had a tiny fraction of a school's fan base on those boards. I feel sometimes those types can bully others who feel differently off a board. It worked with me, I do not punch their boards up anymore. I agree that the size of research grants should not be the final deciding factor in the average person's choice of a college.
@Roggespierre I was always aware that every university has a research department. However I was not aware of the deficiencies of most all the SEC schools with regards to research until I spent several months on those ACC sports boards. There I had the 100's of millions of dollars in deficiencies quoted to me repeatedly.
I read in this article that the SEC is getting their own version of a CIC going. I guess it is none too soon in the new world of today!
@AllTideUp I agree with you that the SEC is full of fine educational institutions that rank with any conference. However the B1G has it's own ways of self evaluation as the AAU and CIC. As this article states, the SEC must do the same and is presently doing so. I know the SEC will get there in the decades ahead.
@BruceMcF Of course I hope you are the one that is right if the SEC should take VT. I just feel the SEC does not have very many good choices left with expansion.
Texas never wanted in the SEC and neither does Oklahoma without OSU. The Kansas schools would be a huge mistake culturally. The SEC does not want SMU, Baylor, TCU or TT. Pitt does not fit. The SEC has done rejected UWV. You add in a bunch of bad attitude Virginia and North Carolina ACC fans with a B1G slant.
That is why I said FSU and Clemson. Good southern schools who really want the SEC. There are not many left!
@Roggespierre Your sentiment is exactly what I experienced from posters on those Virginia boards. Most were not as gracious as you in expressing it though. It is a cultural difference, especially for someone of my age. Twenty years ago you never heard this scholastic stuff mentioned in the same sentence with football in the South. The B1G has been working diligently on that CIC since 1958. The SEC has a lot of catching up to do since that has apparently now been made important.
@BruceMcF I wanted to think of UVA fans being more snobbish or snootier than VT fans as well. I really could tell no diference in them. They got along very well on the same boards. I thought of the big fights between Hog and Red Wolf fans at any opportunity on such a board. Did not see it with them, they get along well.
Slews of posters on those boards will proudly tell you football is not their big thing. It is not the ultimate purpose of a learning institution or their only concern in sports. I heard these type comments repeatedly and if I countered. I was the one chided by those that followed.
I know I was the outsider on those boards and that in it's own gets you some mistreatment. However time after time and over and over repeating. I mean a true anti-SEC attitude is bore out. The SEC does not need that for 20 or 30 years coming out of those two states!
@BruceMcF I have relatives who have lived in Northern Virginia for years. They tell me the Northern 1/2 of Virginia is literally just like living in the North. The Southern 1/2 is more southern to some extent. As far as VT, it has a huge part of the enrollment coming from the NE and B1G regions. I have only been on boards but I can attest to the SEC being heavily bashed there. I can not see a pro SEC majority coming from anywhere. Maybe from the young T-Shirt crowd as you suggest?
However I have always come from this school of thought. They do not want me, I do not want them!
@BruceMcF I think Clemson and FSU are virtually the only matches for the SEC from the ACC. Those Virginia and North Carolina fans do not like the SEC now. How are they going to be when the SEC takes part in breaking up their hallowed ACC? Plus being passed on by the B1G.
When I write Virginia and North Carolina, I am referring to VT, UVA, UNC, UNST and Duke. They all have ACC loving fans who favor the B1G over the SEC by a huge margin. I do not want a bunch of pissed off people in the SEC! Maybe Slive does? I hope not!
This article is good and 100% on the mark. A couple years ago from my absolute total football athletic approach. I thought the SEC would be a dream come true for any academic institution with a football program.
I have been on many boards from these possible expansion schools since then and I hear just what is in this article thrown at me. Especially concerning the academics. These Virginians and North Carolinians are very heavily into this AAU and CIC scholastic stuff. They are into it to the extent of preferring the B1G over the SEC by a large majority. They will proudly declare that their love for sports goes far beyond just football and that football is not the only priority for them. They further state that all the SEC is known for is football.
I know better than that. I think of Virginia and North Carolina people as Blue Noses who resent the SEC more than they want it. I hope the SEC comes to it's senses and takes FSU and Clemson. Mentality does make a difference! The SEC needs schools and fans who have a southern football mentality! Not a bunch of transplanted Blue Nosed Yankee jerks who will always be looking North.
@Roggespierre If the SEC goes past 16? I hope you are right! I just remember the close rivalries and all the yearly games with all or most all the conference opponents. I hate to see a lot of that go.
2 years, 1 month ago on Court Won’t Dismiss The ACC’s Lawsuit Against Maryland
I still think the SEC's main interests are Virginia Tech and North Carolina State. Everyone of these expansion articles you read the last few months has the B1G only interested in the AAU schools. I guess you must accept that as fact?
I hope the SEC does not go beyond 16 schools. I feel one of those larger conferences are going to be condemned from birth. To be broken up by not enough rivalry and too many different interests that can not possibly be properly addressed. Simply too many hogs at the trough.
@JRsec No I did not write the statements about greed in reference to this expansion. It really has no effect as far as the vast scope of that problem. You have two choices on it in my book, Optimism or just do not worry about it. I chose the latter years ago at the strict instruction of my father. Your certainly correct in hoping for change. Very plausible, but it must occur sooner rather than later. I will not write about that further on this site. Football is an enjoyable outlet for me as well!
2 years, 1 month ago on How An SEC-Big XII Scheduling Alliance Could Doom The ACC
@JRsec I try to keep politics out of my thinking concerning sports just on account of keeping them enjoyable. The politics of our country are not in the least bit enjoyable to me. However anything is big as college football is in this country would have to very politically connected. So therefore I have no problem with your scenario.
However if we are going to start analyzing this countries' problems. I really do not see a lot of recourse ever coming. The first major problem in this country is the word "GREED" has become a good word in the world of business. Greed is an ugly word and was despised during the early formation of this country. The word was so hated many laws were enacted to protect the public from it back then. Those laws have been loop holed and stripped away in recent decades. The word 'GREED" must be made ugly and dirty again. Secondly is the stark fact that we are literally moving the 3rd World into this country. This country was built by European decent individuals who were additionally responsible for all the grandeur of Europe. Look upon the 3rd World and what has been accomplished there? Can you bring the 3rd World into this country and have a European result?. Our cities are literal jungles! The 3rd big problem is population in proportion to resources. The US population is doubling every 40 years. Population can become a big problem in just a few generations. Unless these 3 problems are addressed and controlled within the next few decades, there will be no US as we know for a Saturday afternoon football game of a massive crowd. In 50 years this country will be similar to present day Mexico and only going downhill from there! Sad, but as my long deceased father used to say. WE BROUGHT IT ALL ON OURSELVES!
@JRsec As virtually everyone else on these boards, I have no say in what is going to happen is this expansion. I remember those people as Saban you quoted, Gene Stallings talked about those huge conferences as the eventual outcome as well.
I know this much, it will all be 100% cash driven! Those 3 huge conferences will have a big problem right off the bat. Three is an odd number as in making pairing hard to do. College football will need to go back to a BCS type setup to decide it's NC game. Either that or go to a lengthy NFL type Playoff. All kinds of problems in managing conferences as big as that!
You remember that B12 Championship game between Texas and Nebraska? Time running out and the Texas QB threw the football was out of bounds with several seconds left. The clock obviously expired before the ball ever hit the ground on the QB's throw. However the B12 refs put a second back on the clock. Texas then set up for about a 60 yard field goal. Texas' great kicker kicked it and Texas won the B12 Championship.
That one event is probably the biggest single reason that Nebraska is in the B1G right now. I know it is not the only reason, but it is the biggest even over Texas hogging revenue. These Big Conferences have no chance in lasting very long. Too extended with too many variables to control. However I will not mention livefyre as the big transgressor in all this anymore.
@DanHogan The only reason I have made reference to livefyre sites is because they are the only sites where I see a 18 and 20 team SEC with Duke and UNC as preferred new members constantly. I do not like any of that! I have stated the reasons all down this thread of my comments. I will be redundant but I will add this. I can not believe that ignorance is coming from our SEC front office. Somebody has to be dreaming it up!
@BruceMcF @SouthernBoiSB Never thought of that "Body Snatchers" analogy. I do not think I want to say PODS concerning team placement anymore either. The whole scheduling deal with recent SEC expansion and future SEC expansions will not be as good as what we had before. Slive and Delany are smart dudes. Snatching (back to the movie again) these teams can have legal ramifications, their mouths are sealed to everyone because of that. They always speak publicly about future expansion in riddles. That is due to those legal concerns.
@BruceMcF @SouthernBoiSB A 12 team SEC was the optimum best, no SEC school had more than a 3 year gap before playing each other. Trying to keep those rivalries intact, I do not know if we will ever see that again? Even if the SEC should go to Pods with another expansion. I also think FSU should be an SEC add. We can all worry for Florida, but how is it going to be for the entire SEC when the B1G gets a foothold in Florida? I do not want to see FSU in the B12 either. However I think Slive will stick to his footprint stuff for the TV reasons you stated. That is schools in North Carolina and Virginia. I do not know where this stuff on livefyre comes from. I do not think ANYONE has inside SEC sources with Slive.
@BruceMcF @SouthernBoiSB I am not for an 18 team SEC. That is something else I see only on these livefyre websites. I think an 18 or 20 team conference will be disjointed and unmanageable and will not last the long haul. The SEC needs to think football where it's bread and butter has always been. Get as powerful as possible. Take VT and NCST. The SEC does not need big blue nosed egos and frigging basketball schools. The SEC has got a great thing going on and does not need to mess it up with ACC junk schools. Schools like Duke are why the ACC is about to go belly up. Schools like Duke are what killed the old SWC.
@BruceMcF @SouthernBoiSB I do not want Duke in the SEC for ten UNC's. UNC wants Duke, the SEC should not want UNC. UNC does not not pull any weight in the SEC and never will. I can not believe Slive would inflict the ACC problems on the SEC. I still hear VT and NCST as the most probable SEC adds. These livefyre sites are the exception. Makes me wonder what livefyre interest are in all this. ! No research or basketball on a football gridiron. THE SEC IS A FOOTBALL CONFERENCE!
@SouthernBoiSB I feel the SEC should only expand to 16 schools. That means spots are only left for two more football programs. I want those two spots two go to the best football programs possible. Duke does not come close to fulfilling this requirement. The whole expansion procedure has been about providing better football to translate into more money. Why change that so some professor can strut around or waste it on basketball hoping Coach K lives forever. Make the SEC a more powerful football conference! The SEC wants to partner up on research , do so! Just don;t do it on the back of football. The same goes for basketball, don't do it on the back of football. That's where basketball is at in the SEC everywhere but at Kentucky, on the back of football.
I have been mostly non-committal about the choices for teams on this expansion issue. However expansion appears to have now become dumb! The SEC is a red blooded football conference for all it's fans. Tell me how many fans the research departments have? Our football conference has no place for that snobby blue blood egghead bunch that is Duke. Slive is the ATHLETIC COMMISSIONER of the SEC! If he gets cross wired and takes Duke, Slive should be fired!!!
Who has the SEC ever added to the league for basketball ? I do not really know who in the state of North Carolina belongs in the football SEC? For the SEC to be pushed into taking Duke to get UNC with no Virginia School taken. That is not just one big mistake! THAT IS THREE BIG DAMN MISTAKES!!! Screw those A$$$holes! Take NCST with UVA or VT, Grin all the way to the bank and be happy ever after!
2 years, 2 months ago on SEC’s Slive Makes $1.5 Million in 2011-12, But There’s Still Work To Do
@JRsec My memories of Texas. That sounds Great!
2 years, 2 months ago on SEC Expansion/ACC Implosion Update
@JRsec Yes and in the "competition" for UNC, the deal is the the SEC gets stuck with Duke. I remember the old SWC. I remember Broyles stating, "If we ever wanted anything done in the SWC. We had to go to Texas. If Texas said yes, all the other Texas schools fell in behind and we got it. Texas said no, forget it!" From all the B12 exits, it is apparent a lot of schools besides Arkansas did not like that game. North Carolina has been compared by many as the Texas of the ACC. You think North Carolina plus that dang Duke is going to get along with Alabama and Florida in the SEC. It appears UNC may be off to a good start in controlling the SEC. How long do you think that would last? LOL
@mowens75 @JRsec I think the best thing for the extreme long haul welfare of the SEC is to take a Virginia school and North Carolina school to get 16 and then move Missouri to the West. Cards to vest, if I was SLIVE, that is all I would do! PERIOD! However what we have seen this all looks like a nut cracking dice roll. In that case I go FSU and Clemson to get to 18.
As we all know this conference alignment is fueled by money with regard to the burgeoning new Conference TV Networks. I think the B1G is in a slightly more appealing situation at this present moment because of this simple premise (a bird in hand is worth two in the bush). One could counter, but on proximity and culturally. The SEC is the best choice for any of these southern ACC schools! However I think the B1G with their BTN is still the only one that can crack that nut as you say from the north end of the ACC. I don't think UVA, VT, UNC or NC St. will jump to the SEC first off at the present time! Only the B1G with that near certain promise of over 40 million in 2017 holds that nut cracker. I agree that for the SEC to get everything going first off, FSU is the best and probably only option. Clemson would come as well. I'm not sure Slive will act first and be forever known as the executioner of the ACC. However I think Delany would. You think there could already be collusion and everything is already parleyed out between the SEC & B1G? I would not doubt it!!!
@JRsec Since I made this post on Helmet I saw this exact same scenario on several other SEC expansion sites. The 3 NC schools plus a VA school, then the SEC divided into three 6-Team pods. Of course I think no one knows for sure if it really a possibility. I should not have been as strong as to say Slive would be an idiot to accept it. I know he will do only what is best for the SEC. However to me, Duke is too high a price to pay to get North Carolina. The SEC wants 18. Take a Virginia school, probably VT. Stay 15. Let B1G take UVA and GT, this may be the first step of the next expansion round. Then the SEC can easily get VT. UNC and Duke would then try to sell themselves to someone. either B1G or SEC. They will not go to the Big 12 because of the monetary disparity. I do not think the B1G would take 3 North Carolina schools. They might take Duke and NC for that AAU addition. That would leave NC St. for the SEC or perhaps NC will drop Duke to get in SEC rather then go to the B1G. SEC then wants 18, get FSU and Clemson or if still available NC St.. NO Duke! .
If it is for football and revenue as I've heard for months? I mean that is VT plus either UNC/NC ST.. Where does Duke come into it? To get the Tar Heels? Screw that, just get NC ST. after the B1G takes the Tar Heels. Maybe the B1G will also take Duke, who in the SEC would care? Going for Duke or 4 schools, 3 NC plus a Va school is nothing but a big mistake for the football SEC! With 18 teams, scheduling, breaking down into 2 divisions or numerous pod alignments will all be nothing but a continual nightmare! I have always thought Slive was a pretty smart dude. However Slive is Ignorant if he is somehow pushed into an 18 team SEC for the sake of getting Duke for basketball. If you got to have 18, for lord's sake get FSU. I can not believe you guys are on the mark with this.
@Central_VAHokie Yeah, I was a young man years ago and spent a summer in suspense wondering if Broyles & Kramer would ever make a simple decision for Arkansas to enter the SEC. The situation now is many times more technical, many more options. Good Luck!
2 years, 4 months ago on More Expansion? The SEC Should Just Leap To 20 Teams And Be Done With It
@Central_VAHokie Your Gobbler Country and Andy Bitter blogs come to mind, but I've been on others. I have a comment on that Bitter-"Beamer and Terps' departure" article right now. It has a VT rub to it, It has sat on a VT blog for 24 hours not raising an eyebrow. I put something slightly negative about Alabama on this Blog, I guarantee in a few hours I will come here and I will feel like a pit bull has me by the leg. I made that mistake a few times years ago, that's sinful down here! I'll take you for your word. I have nothing to settle with VT. Your business, no more negativity from me. Accept my apology!
I read some of what is being summed up below by my SEC brethren . The SEC has VT & NC St to make 16. and everything else under the sun is being plotted. First, the SEC could have FSU, Ga. Tech or Clemson tomorrow, Slive doesn't want them. I guess Slive does want a Virginia or North Carolina school. I have been on sports blogs in those two states, they are ACC loving son of a guns. The only way anyone is leaving is an ACC break-up caused by the departure of FSU and maybe Clemson or GT too. SEC not taking those 3, who will? I can only think of Texas and the B12. Maybe FSU is not stupid enough to go to the Bi2? You better keep FSU people away from Texas A&M people. Also old Hog fans like me with 40 years of the Texas SWC experience. Nebraska people too. Talk to any of us, they will never go. What is all this fancy planning then. I guess you can counter with it is all about the money. We will see. I just hope the SEC stops permanently at 16 !!!!!
2 years, 4 months ago on SEC Expansion - Sweet Sixteen
I've been on a lot of VT, NC St. and North Carolina Blogs, I've developed opinions I'll state here. The administrators at VT are a bunch of intense ACC fans, they talk the ACC up to the max. Not much SEC passion by VT fans either. Anyone can say it means nothing. However I'd take Virginia. As far is North Carolina, NC State has a bunch of passionate football fans that dream of an SEC invite. North Carolina will always resent not having Duke anymore and they are use to being treated special in that ACC conference. I look at NC State as TAM. NC as Texas. I don't think Texas or NC would be happy in the SEC. Virginia and NC State are probably the best choices. I'm from Arkansas, I have no hidden bias. I've driven through those places a couple times is it.
As far as what you wrote about what works best for a conference, the SEC probably passed it when it went past 12. The SEC has now moved into the realm of being more like 2 conferences in very close association, that is when that 8 game schedule gets set. Past 16 teams and even if going to a 9 game SEC schedule; you can forget the very close association part. The SEC would be 2 separate conferences, pods or however you cut it. The SEC should now get that 16 team southern state footprint, STOP THEIR EXPANSION, then go to a 9 game SEC schedule. That should set the SEC for another 75 years. These limits should be written into SEC By-Laws!