WarHog38
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@JRsec @AllTideUp @local37220 I know some people on these boards just enjoy thinking up all these different expansion scenarios and tossing them out here. Who really knows what is going to happen with all this? Maryland and Rutgers to the B1G proved that. However I remember a few on these boards predicted it along with much that has not happened.
I have always pretty much been the same with my thinking though. I have little interest in playing or thinking up different scenarios. I think the SEC going beyond 16 will ultimately end up being a mistake. I hope the two SEC adds are FSU & Clemson. I guess the SEC would still ultimately benefit by adding VT & NCST. I feel anything outside or beyond that is a mistake for the SEC in the long run. Others do and can differ in their thinking. We shall all see in the next few years.
@JRsec You do not want to get me talking politics on this board again? As you know I am farther out there in right field than you are. I am sticking to sports on here for everyone's sake!
@AllTideUp @local37220 @JRsec The Pacific 12 refused Texas, TT, OU & OSU because of the LHN, Scott publicly said so. OU and OSU were refused by the Pac 12 as a twosome. I guess no one knows if Oklahoma would have been accepted by themselves? It has been rumored the SEC refused Oklahoma because OSU was attached to the deal. Now you add that GOR that lasts another 12 years. This all makes the Big 12 look pretty blame stable to me for next few years. Maybe Kansas to the B1G?
Now the ACC. Of course we all know about Maryland. It has been reported that ACC schools refused Swofford over and over on a Big 12 style GOR. You have a once boisterous bunch of pro ACC school administrators who all are now mum. The ACC school administrators who do now speak talk of an out for their respective schools if needed. FSU is a cog that can not be lost to the ACC and FSU looks shaky in the ACC at best. The future SEC and current B1G TV Network look like a sure killer to the ACC in the next several years. Long before that Big 12 GOR starts to weaken.
I do not really understand the comparisons I see on this board comparing the Big 12 and ACC. I understood why those ACC people could not figure it out when I posted this on their boards. They did not want to!
i failed to mention that SEC-B12 Sugar Bowl that Slive set up. That further strengthened the B12 to a huge degree!
@local37220 I think the scenario you stated in the second paragraph of your comment is logical and therefore highly possible in the near future for any 18 & 20 team conference.
I'll add this as reinforcement to the last sentence of your comment. What tradition do the possible SEC break-away schools you stated have with FSU, Clemson, NC State, Va. Tech, WVU and Duke/Pitt? Beyond those which are presently in state rivals? They will never establish traditions in a 20 school SEC either. There is too much distance and they will rarely play each other in that big of a league. What you state is the more than likely conclusion to the whole boondoggle.
@JRsec I fully agree with your first paragraph. However I do not feel the SEC has nearly as many brand matches and cultural fits as you stated later in your comment.
Oklahoma and the Longhorns do not match the SEC culturally at all. Oklahoma has the culture of Indian territory, still clearly visible in 2013. UT and the whole state of Texas is oil rich far beyond the scope of any southern state. East Texas Texas A&M is the only match and the SEC got them. Those Virginia and North Carolina schools do not want the SEC. They prefer ACC to all, the B1G secondly.
FSU and Clemson are cultural and brand fits for the SEC. Those are the only two. NCST might shake out as a torn Missouri type fit. UNC, UVA, VT, OU, OSU and Texas will all make Missouri look like SEC sweethearts.
It does not matter what you or I or these many posters write. This is all about money. I think nothing else much matters. The proof or test will be the longevity of these makeshift conferences. I do not think an 18 or 20 team conference sprawled out over 2/3 of the country will have the shelf life of a can of tomatoes.
For the FSU AD to be making public statements as this concerning a rival conference fully shows the dire predicament that the ACC is now in. This is the exact kind of public statements the Arkansas, South Carolina, Texas A&M and Missouri AD's made before their respective schools entered the SEC. Is FSU getting ready to enter the SEC? These kind of public statements makes it look like FSU sure has something cooked up or are badly trying to do so. Swofford must of about had a coronary when he heard this.
When or if FSU leaves the ACC it will be finished as a football conference. Clemson, VT and NCST will all know it and will look to escape at any good opportunity. I see you SEC'ers took care of one of those disillusioned ACC people further down on the board. These people care very little about football. Their basketball and scholastic fans. I think they resent the SEC as much as they love the ACC. Oh well, I was pounded with Talisman's Folly type thinking until I withdrew from their boards.
Missouri gets a lot of grief from posters on these boards as to not belonging or not fitting in the SEC. I think a lot of this is blow back to a vocal B1G element in Missouri's fan base and in a lot of cases it is just B1G fans in those surrounding northern states that make those pro Missouri in the B1G comments. Some of these SEC fans just do not know the history of Missouri and it's past relations to the South. I get tired of all the pro B1G chatter concerning Missouri as well.
Missouri has always been torn culturally in this matter all down through the history of this country. Missouri probably does not have the 90% plus type SEC support in it's fan base of the other SEC schools. However Missouri surely does have a large majority of it's fan base who fully support Missouri in the SEC. Missouri does fit in the SEC because in the South is where they have always stood. How can any SEC fan now take history out of context to now be against Missouri when they again chose the South as they always have?
@Roggespierre @BruceMcF The SEC is almost completely made up of large Land Grant universities, as is the B1G. There is no bad choice for higher education from their ranks.
@BruceMcF It is snobbery to a large degree. I had those posters on those ACC boards tell me that Missouri, Vandy, Florida and Texas A&M were all gone to the B1G for the asking. I never responded to such. Too busy countering the other junk they posted. However I thought those particular comments by them were absurd.
I know I just had a tiny fraction of a school's fan base on those boards. I feel sometimes those types can bully others who feel differently off a board. It worked with me, I do not punch their boards up anymore. I agree that the size of research grants should not be the final deciding factor in the average person's choice of a college.
@Roggespierre I was always aware that every university has a research department. However I was not aware of the deficiencies of most all the SEC schools with regards to research until I spent several months on those ACC sports boards. There I had the 100's of millions of dollars in deficiencies quoted to me repeatedly.
I read in this article that the SEC is getting their own version of a CIC going. I guess it is none too soon in the new world of today!
@AllTideUp I agree with you that the SEC is full of fine educational institutions that rank with any conference. However the B1G has it's own ways of self evaluation as the AAU and CIC. As this article states, the SEC must do the same and is presently doing so. I know the SEC will get there in the decades ahead.
@BruceMcF Of course I hope you are the one that is right if the SEC should take VT. I just feel the SEC does not have very many good choices left with expansion.
Texas never wanted in the SEC and neither does Oklahoma without OSU. The Kansas schools would be a huge mistake culturally. The SEC does not want SMU, Baylor, TCU or TT. Pitt does not fit. The SEC has done rejected UWV. You add in a bunch of bad attitude Virginia and North Carolina ACC fans with a B1G slant.
That is why I said FSU and Clemson. Good southern schools who really want the SEC. There are not many left!
@Roggespierre Your sentiment is exactly what I experienced from posters on those Virginia boards. Most were not as gracious as you in expressing it though. It is a cultural difference, especially for someone of my age. Twenty years ago you never heard this scholastic stuff mentioned in the same sentence with football in the South. The B1G has been working diligently on that CIC since 1958. The SEC has a lot of catching up to do since that has apparently now been made important.
@BruceMcF I wanted to think of UVA fans being more snobbish or snootier than VT fans as well. I really could tell no diference in them. They got along very well on the same boards. I thought of the big fights between Hog and Red Wolf fans at any opportunity on such a board. Did not see it with them, they get along well.
Slews of posters on those boards will proudly tell you football is not their big thing. It is not the ultimate purpose of a learning institution or their only concern in sports. I heard these type comments repeatedly and if I countered. I was the one chided by those that followed.
I know I was the outsider on those boards and that in it's own gets you some mistreatment. However time after time and over and over repeating. I mean a true anti-SEC attitude is bore out. The SEC does not need that for 20 or 30 years coming out of those two states!
@BruceMcF I have relatives who have lived in Northern Virginia for years. They tell me the Northern 1/2 of Virginia is literally just like living in the North. The Southern 1/2 is more southern to some extent. As far as VT, it has a huge part of the enrollment coming from the NE and B1G regions. I have only been on boards but I can attest to the SEC being heavily bashed there. I can not see a pro SEC majority coming from anywhere. Maybe from the young T-Shirt crowd as you suggest?
However I have always come from this school of thought. They do not want me, I do not want them!
@BruceMcF I think Clemson and FSU are virtually the only matches for the SEC from the ACC. Those Virginia and North Carolina fans do not like the SEC now. How are they going to be when the SEC takes part in breaking up their hallowed ACC? Plus being passed on by the B1G.
When I write Virginia and North Carolina, I am referring to VT, UVA, UNC, UNST and Duke. They all have ACC loving fans who favor the B1G over the SEC by a huge margin. I do not want a bunch of pissed off people in the SEC! Maybe Slive does? I hope not!
This article is good and 100% on the mark. A couple years ago from my absolute total football athletic approach. I thought the SEC would be a dream come true for any academic institution with a football program.
I have been on many boards from these possible expansion schools since then and I hear just what is in this article thrown at me. Especially concerning the academics. These Virginians and North Carolinians are very heavily into this AAU and CIC scholastic stuff. They are into it to the extent of preferring the B1G over the SEC by a large majority. They will proudly declare that their love for sports goes far beyond just football and that football is not the only priority for them. They further state that all the SEC is known for is football.
I know better than that. I think of Virginia and North Carolina people as Blue Noses who resent the SEC more than they want it. I hope the SEC comes to it's senses and takes FSU and Clemson. Mentality does make a difference! The SEC needs schools and fans who have a southern football mentality! Not a bunch of transplanted Blue Nosed Yankee jerks who will always be looking North.
@Roggespierre If the SEC goes past 16? I hope you are right! I just remember the close rivalries and all the yearly games with all or most all the conference opponents. I hate to see a lot of that go.
I still think the SEC's main interests are Virginia Tech and North Carolina State. Everyone of these expansion articles you read the last few months has the B1G only interested in the AAU schools. I guess you must accept that as fact?
I hope the SEC does not go beyond 16 schools. I feel one of those larger conferences are going to be condemned from birth. To be broken up by not enough rivalry and too many different interests that can not possibly be properly addressed. Simply too many hogs at the trough.
@JRsec No I did not write the statements about greed in reference to this expansion. It really has no effect as far as the vast scope of that problem. You have two choices on it in my book, Optimism or just do not worry about it. I chose the latter years ago at the strict instruction of my father. Your certainly correct in hoping for change. Very plausible, but it must occur sooner rather than later. I will not write about that further on this site. Football is an enjoyable outlet for me as well!