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I posted this in the forums, but I think it bears repeating here.
The problem and the source of many people reporting issues of things not working or being what they were in Framework.
There never was a free version with Platform Pro or Framework - only paid. Everyone was on the same playing field.
Now, given there is a crippled free version and a full paid version we aren't comparing apples to apples in talking about how to accomplish things. I for one am using the free version to test and evaluate migrating from Framework and allowing Pagelines to come back online from the hack before upgrading.
As a result, I have no idea of what is in the pro version. There is no indication with in the sections or store in the DMS basic interface of what you get when you go pro. Only "pro tools" on the pricing page. It is very confusing when some of the plugins that are only for pro are grayed out in the DMS basic interface and say pro only, but other ones that exist don't show up at all. I took it as what was shown is all that is available in the Pro version so it appeared we were going backwards in some cases from Framework - namely boxes, brand nav, blog post options, etc.
I think if you look at many of the other comments along these lines it seems there are a lot of threads and confusion around this.
This incorrectly led me as a prior customer of Framework and my evaluation of DMS to not have the full picture of the product. A 30 day free trial and then reverting to non-pro would be a more effective business model for you as someone is more apt to pay after they get their site developed. They can also see everything that pro has to offer.
In the meantime, may I suggest breaking the DMS forum into basic vs paid and then having sub forums such as tech support, customoizations, etc just as was done for Framework and Platform Pro so that it is easier to find content and also so that everyone is talking about the same version of DMS clearing up confusion.
1 year, 8 months ago on DMS Reviews & Roadmap
As a 2 year customer of both Platform Pro and Framework I have decided I will be making the upgrade to DMS in the coming weeks. Planning my migration.
I think there could have been a lot more documentation at launch. I don't blame you at all for the hacking issues.
Looking forward to making my website head and shoulders above my two main competitors.
I've made a decision to come back in 3 months. Hopefully everything is sorted out by then and I can learn from others that use DMS.
1 year, 9 months ago on Your DMS awaits.
@echampagne @illinimatt81 I was just saying a blog post or video speaking to what is going on and what is being done would quell the concerns a bit and make people feel more at ease. There is a vacuum of information and this comment thread is filling that void.
The hackers are getting exactly what they wanted. This could in fact hurt Pagelines for a long time, and that would be bad as Framework and my experience with their support thus far has been fantastic to this point. I've recommended it to several people but if support is dropped I won't move to DMS because support will be dropped for that in less than 2 years when the next big thing comes out. I'm looking for a long term platform to be built upon and make it easy to migrate to - not having to rebuild my sites every 2 years. I have a business to run, not redoing my perfectly fine websites.
A blog post or even a quick video from Andrew talking about what is going on would be most appreciated. Would also buy them some more time and goodwill of their users. Probably even until Monday.
@rbarn I feel the same. A couple weeks ago I would have continued to build on Framework. I've actually spent the last few days a bit distressed realizing that my site is now dependent on their ongoing support of it which seems as if it will be dropped. If I had assurance that Framework and DMS would co-exist I would feel better about things. Now I am checking out what other options are out there. I also don't want to have my site dependent on a subscription. I pay for the tools I use to develop it and expect that I have 100% control over things thereafter. Control over your website, customer list and everything without being tied to one vendor or ecosystem is essential. I can't expose myself to risk.
@dhrcreate I agree. DMS serves a different niche in my opinion. I would market it as a separate product rather than a replacement for Framework which we were told would serve as a platform for years to come.Not to mention, they are going to lose paying customers like me that can't easily migrate.
@NathanMoss @schutzsmith I agree. I went to great pains to make Framework v2 render correctly in IE8 with custom CSS. It's a dealbreaker for me too. Not everyone keeps up with latest technology.
@jgiroux @merryeisner I think the store and support for Framework is done. Would love to hear an official response from Pagelines on this to confirm though. The old store pages are all turning up 404s.
@Arnold_iOSDev @jgiroux @MarkFirth I opened my site with DMS coming from Framework and the result is I would have to completely relearn and rebuild everything. The site was beyond destroyed. Thus, I am sticking with Framework for now and might end up having to go somewhere else if it isn't supported.
@norpak Most are not working and break DMS, at least for me. Catloop is one example.
@Martin Bay I am the same. Framework is a platform that can be developed on for years. It wasn't even out for two years. DMS might be ok but I have built a robust site on Framework and I am not willing to spend the time to move it to DMS as I spent 6 hours with it yesterday on a localhost installation and couldn't figure it out. It's almost too simple for those that want to do things.
Where can I control the header? The H tags? There are sections in the DMS store that I added that were from Framework that broke DMS and returned invalid function calls.
Web development is not my focus, I like it, but my business is my focus which is athlete coaching.
I now feel vulnerable with Framework and hate to say I have looked at other options in the meantime...
@jgiroux @merryeisner This illustrates the issue with DMS needing to authentuicate with Pagelines and how if it can't it reverts to disabling the pro features and reinstalling the credit link (which can be removed with CSS).
Personally I am understanding of what has happened. Just not sure that DMS is right for me. Framework has it's place and I'd hate to think I have to move to DMS and that workflow or risk a new version of Wordpress coming out and breaking it.
@jancaynes @illinimatt81 I'll wait to see. Like anything else with software, I'll let others buy first and read through the comments and discussion to figure out what is really going on and if it is right for me.
If there is any of the business practices of WPMU I won't upgrade and stick with Framework and eventually go somewhere else. Probably a lot of people feel the same. Could be great, or could be great but the business model isn't appealing. I've never liked the pay monthly and get a new section or plugin. I hardly ever need them, nor do I want something randomly developed and given to me. I only implement what I use and try to keep extra plugins and code to a minimum. Less is more.
Looking forward to reading about this all next week!
1 year, 9 months ago on What competitors think about DMS
WPMU is a slimeball company IMO. I made the mistake of buying a plugin from them once and they try to trick you into paying for an expensive membership, try to install a large store and updater to make things work (really just market to you) and then if you don't install that necessary bloatware they put up a big nag in your Wordpress Admin making you think that there is an error unless you install said bloatware to be marketed to. A quick Google Search will turn up countless blog posts and complaints on this as well.
I'd never do business with WPMU and surprised you wouldn't know that they are shady and even have reached out to them.
I hope that it's not too challenging to migrate from Framework 2.0 to DMS. That would make all of this that much more appealing.
1 year, 9 months ago on The problem with themes…
@jancaynes @redefiler @webranger1962 I bought a WPMU plugin once and will never do it again. Not only did they try to imply an unnecessary $70/month subscription would be needed they then tried to shove bloatware and advertising and an entire marketplace of their plugins on my site. I didn't buy a plugin to be marketed to within my own dashboard. Then when I disabled that you get a nag that won't disappear. Thankfully I was able to Google to get rid of that and saw the huge backlash they have created. Force someone to do something and they will say, no thanks. Not the way to do business.
1 year, 9 months ago on Why DMS will be open source.
@arpowers I think we are all just hoping for a fairly straight forward upgrade path from Framework 2.0 to DMS and a reasonably priced offering. Despite my objections to the subscription model I am holding judgement until you release the details, but what we are going to be able to create with this looks to be amazing. I am holding off on all major work to my site right now. Only posting, anything non-essential is frozen until this comes out and I can try it out.
@Sam Brody1 @illinimatt81 @arpowers There is no fence to climb over. You will always pay more in the long run with a subscription than a one time fee. I am one that pays cash and owns everything - many others might be comfortable with monthly payments. There should be an option for each rather than one way or the other.
I'm in software (unrelated to Pagelines or web development) so I am pretty privy as to what drives these decisions. It shouldn't take PR spin to sell it to people. It should fill a need.
@arpowers @illinimatt81 I wont clog up the comments with more, I'll wait and see like everyone else. Appreciate the responses.
@arpowers @daveintampa An upgrade to what you already own is a choice. Don't like it, don't buy it. I can't sympathize with those that complain that version 3 will cost something. It costs money to develop this and major releases justify a new license.
@arpowers @illinimatt81 Our software company still offers free support for the life of the product. I guess that is a rarity in this day and age.
You do offer good support, but not sure it is justified to pay for all the time you don't use it.
@daveintampa We need clarification on this before we get too worked up. Simple yes or no question.
@arpowers @illinimatt81 Are you saying that only updates would need to be paid for by subscription? So you can own all the features and just choose to forgo updates?
This is why you can have launches every few years. I work in software marketing so I get how much more money you can make - but it basically makes it more expensive for the end user in the long run. There are very little benefits to the customer. The perpetual model is only the "old way of doing things" in the minds of software compaines. SaaS is not something customers are asking for nor are the benefits clear in most cases.
This is Adobe's model and it is backfiring. Paying for support and updates, sure. Paying or your site breaks, not cool.
@Homepagely Sure, pro to pay once, not forever and ever. I don't want my website to stop working I stop paying. They are locking you into a continuity model. The only smart business decision in my opinion is to own and control everything you can.
Really, another subscription model? Is everything going to that? People want less subscriptions in their life, not more. Who wants to pay to have their website continue to be available after they design it, build it and host it on their own servers. If this is the case, I think I'll be sticking with Framework and sadly looking for alternatives going forward.I was really excited about DMS until I read this. Open source for development and bug fixes, but pay to use.I have no problem paying for an upgrade, but one time only.
@arpowers @jsindelar @Sheila I'm so excited about this I am researching how to setup a development server so I can install this and modify my site and then push live. That way there will be no worries!
1 year, 9 months ago on Official Teaser – Name and Launch Date
@arpowers @jsindelar @Sheila I'm glad this was thought of. I have a legacy site that I would love to incorporate with the new DMS as it visually is doing things I have always wanted to do. But like you I also feated upgrading would kill my site. I'm hopeful this won't be the case. I'm willing to rework a few things because I want to take advantage of new features, but I don't want to have all my custom CSS and work get blown out either.Definitely holding off on a new site concept until this is released.
I think feedburner is on the chopping block. I migrated away from it last fall when this flared up and I am glad I did.
"The company said it would retire seven other products and services over the next few months." They also are rolling out Google Takeout which allows users take their data out of multiple Google products and collate it in portable and open formats, making it easy to export to other services.
I moved away from Feedburner and it wasn't hard and I feel great that I did it.
2 years, 1 month ago on 300 The Importance of Networking With Others Online – My Story of Networking With Pat Flynn – Google Shuts Down Reader, Is Feedburner Next?
Does the static posts option automatically update with the latest blog posts?
2 years, 1 month ago on Latest Blog Entries
Pre sale question: I see you can enter HTML code in the box. Could I enter my Aweber opt-in form code there and have the opt-in display sitewide in the header?
2 years, 2 months ago on Business Branding
I've got everything setup in my BluBrry PowerPress on my self-hosted Wordpress Blog and output to my own self-hosted feed: http://runneracademy.com/category/podcast/feed
Because I didn't know what I was doing when I started I sent the above feed into Feedburner and it is at http://feeds.feedburner.com/RunnerAcademyPodcast I believe this is redundant.
Problem is now I have 10,000s of listeners and in many apps. Seems I could just delete the Feedburner Feed and then publish an episode so all the apps get the 301 back to my original feed and problem solved to move away if it comes down to it?
If Feedburner is discontinued I would imagine they would offer longer than a 30 day 301 redirect.
2 years, 6 months ago on Feedburner – Is The Sky Really Falling?