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That alternative book chapter list of Chris's had me dying laughing. As did many of the comments below. I wasn't going to watch the segment, but couldn't resist. The sad truth is that any woman looking to date a Black man had better get her head around the fact that too many think this way, act this way, and live by this code. The two Haitian Americans are an embarrassment to my community.
There is no such thing as an IBM. There are only men, and most are not ideal in any way, but just human beings. Black male entitlement is at an all-time high, and I simply don't have the interest in dealing with it. No one is entitled to my best if they won't give me theirs, and their best has also got to be good enough. This nonsense is sub-par at best. Pass.
20 hours, 22 minutes ago on When IBM Nonsense Doesn’t Go Over Well with White America
Get on the mountain! The guy I am seeing grew up playing hockey and skiing, my ex is an avid skier. I attract adventurous, theillseeking types now that I have worked out what kind of personalities work with mine.
Winter sports are expensive unless you live in a cold climate already, and skiing costs money so you're not likely to find wastrels (without trust funds or cougar allowances lol).
2 weeks, 3 days ago on What Skiing in Big Bear Taught Me About Interracial Dating Prospects for Black Women
@ToriSpeaks007 @jazzyfae45 This is such an insightful comment.
3 weeks, 2 days ago on Special Guest: Interracial Dating and Colorism
@Brenda55 @kennaGransberg THIS is all people need to be focused on right here. I cannot express how important making this mental shift will be in the results achieved in life.
You can access all of that power and use it to make your own life better, or continue to give it to people who don't give a crap about you. Up to you, really. No one can do it for you.
@darkandlovely @Statuesque Whether Ms. Plastic Booty had a real one before enhancing it and other parts, or not, there are White women, Latinas, Indian women, etc. who have naturally curvy bodies and/or round backsides. Any trait you can find in one population will be found in another - there are darkskinned Africans with sky blue eyes. So I am not saying that there aren't Black women with naturally blond hair (but I am not sure how many are darkskinned with platinum blonde straight locks...), but I am saying that it is somewhat hypocritical to get mad at non-Black women who adorn themselves with the artifacts of our unique beauty when we do the same with theirs.
If we can all concede that it's perfectly okay for a Black woman to change her hair, skin and body then I think taking a hard line on people like KK is problematic.
3 weeks, 2 days ago on Utterly Speechless…Is Kim Kardashian Wearing Blackface?!
@EmpressNK @BWC It is hilarious!! Robert Downey Jr. did exactly what you would expect. At no time did he ever take himself seriously, but the character took everything seriously and was a Method actor. Black people who were offended didn't get the joke. There was a Black character in the movie who called him out at every turn and that was funny too.
That entire family is a waste of space! No one I talk to will admit to watching their shows but clearly millions of people love them even if on the DL.
3 weeks, 3 days ago on Utterly Speechless…Is Kim Kardashian Wearing Blackface?!
OMG I just laughed out loud.
Well when bloggers like Madame Noire compile a "best butts" list and most of the women are only marginally of African descent if at all, isn't Kim at least trying to pay homage to reality with the manufactured skin color?
I am forced to pay attention to what this idiot does because so many people care and want to talk about what she does. It is really irritating because there isn't a less interesting person on Earth.
Our images and feminine features have and will be co-opted, and we co-opt the images and features of other types of women too. This is not an false equivalence, only to say that it is hard to take the high road when you see Black women in blonde weaves. The question for me becomes what we do about it. Doing the reverse would bring charges of self-hatred, but why couldn't more Black women start producing art? Why couldn't we take the opportunity to better promote the unique aspects of our beauty?
And this is where I see, again, the smear campaign at work. If we are so ugly and our natural features so unattractive, why are so many women altering themselves to look more like Black women?
We are allowing the aesthetic that defines what modern beauty is to be co-opted, and not because this moron painted herself brown. It is because WE do not promote our own beauty enough. Every time Ariana Grande, Joss Stone or Izzy Azalea open their mouths the world hears the sound of a Black woman. They are "white" girls who sound Black, period, and everyone knows it.
It is one thing to point out a self-defeating focus on colorism against dark-skinned women and quite another to state that a discussion on colorism itself is problematic. The former is a fair question to ask of a woman whose romantic and reproductive choices may end up producing privileged light-skinned people....are you going to be able "get it" when it comes to their issues, or not? Are you going to dismiss what may happen to them on the grounds of that privilege? It is a question of whether you can have empathy with someone who does not sing your blues, so to speak, if you seek to minimize their experiences and potential pain. If you aren't even willing to recognize possibility that being lightskinned is not a panacea, then I question your ability to empathize with a particular lightskinned person if their life hasn't been a bed of roses, or they also experienced colorism.
This would be my exact point to a person who maintains that rich Black people do not experience anti-Black racism and need to shut up about it. If you have no empathy for a person's human experience because they are wealthy, that's your right, but expect the side eye from people without that issue if 1) you say that you don't care about what wealthy Black people think or feel because poor Black people have it tougher while at the same time saying that 2)you are actively seeking to associate with wealthy Black people and 3) intend on raising Black children that will be considered wealthy and have those privileges.
You see how at no point I negated the experience of the Black poor to make that point? Maybe some of you whose primary focus is on the darkskinned experience with colorism could take that approach. The questions are coming not because your perspective is invalid, but because you aren't being empathetic to the very experience you will be responsible for understanding (if you want to have a healthy relationship of any kind with a White or lightskinned person) or shaping (if you are dark and intend to have children with anyone other than a darkskinned person). It is a hypocritical stance to take for anyone who says they are about getting themselves and others out of a self-defeating colorist mindset.
The latter, though, is presumptuous and has elements of victim-shaming. Colorism is ABUSIVE and a structural feature of our modern societies, just like racism, sexism, classism etc. Some people have been sorely and thoroughly abused because of their color. If there are people here of ANY hue "grappling" with the after-effects of abusive treatment that should not be considered a personal indictment against their readiness to swirl, provided they aren't perpetuating the abuse in their engagement of others. Granted some people are in that category, but most are not. They are just hurting and seeking to share their stories.
As a couple of the consistently empathetic and open-minded White male members of BB&W have shared (thank you Oaktown Paul and SavageTango!), and surely many others are thinking, this gives them valuable insight into what issues the women they are attracted to may be dealing with. Sadly, colorism is an issue in 2015, and not just because Black men are fetishizing lightskinned chicks either!
3 weeks, 6 days ago on Colorism: The conversation continues.
Very funny video! I love a good snarkfest.
At some point, Black women just have to take a good, long and hard look at the world and all of the people working overtime to convince people with working eyesight and deductive reasoning that Black women are uniquely and decidedly unattractive. I do not see anyone who is not literally selling something working this hard to persuade the masses. Look to history for the answer (African women were attractive enough for European men to defy and complicate a pretty straightforward White supremacist agenda), and current events for the rationale (women of African descent, especially in the U.S., are the most educated, highly productive, clearly fertile [ha ha ha] and AVAILABLE). Men are pretty intelligent, and they hate to be told they can't have something they desire. Those that have put two and two together are doing more than making videos about it!
This society has to work too hard to convince us all of something so self-evident, que no? Do we typically need to be convinced of natural, obvious things, or might this be a centuries-old smear campaign that, instead of the usual suspects, now includes Asians and other non-Whites who see the threat? Again, y'all anti-Black racists and bigots, and Black misogynoirs out there are expending a whole lot of energy to try and make me feel unpretty. If I am so ugly who would need to persuade they guys asking me out of anything that their eyes couldn't see for themselves?
I rest my case. This is so brand new it is old and tired.
4 weeks, 1 day ago on Glad to See More Non-Black Men Seeing Through the Lies About Black Women.
@marie_christine2 It makes me really angry that the comments of some have made you feel this way, because it is simply NOT okay for a Black woman to feel marginalized in this space because of how she looks. There are many women here expressing support and empathy on this topic. I won't dismiss your feelings by saying the women who aren't should be ignored, but I am saying that several people have also been visibly supportive and that is important too.
In my opinion, any woman who has unresolved feelings of jealousy or envy towards light-skinned women should NOT have children with anyone but a dark-skinned Black man, or should not have children at all. They are potentially too damaged to be a good mother to lighter daughters and sons who will require your unconditional love, empathy and sensitivity to their particular racial challenges in a racist and colorist society.
If these were White mothers of part Black or Black children making similar comments of disdain and envy, they would be rightfully tarred, feathered, and set on fire by people here. There is NO WAY that some of the same women who feel very comfortable expressing this lack of empathy and disdain towards how another woman feels would tolerate a man of any background coming in here and totally dismissing a Black woman's perspective on what it feels like to exist. Express it, because that's your right as well, but I sincerely hope you are at the beginning of a process in which you move beyond this pain, because it will literally destroy your happiness and that of your future children.
It is not a light-skinned woman's fault that a world focused on White supremacy affords her privileges that are not available to darker people. Stop blaming the victim...unless the particular woman is victimizing you!
4 weeks, 1 day ago on Okay; I’ll Admit It. I’m Feeling Some Kinda Way about the New Doc, “Light Girls.”
@mlank64 "Dark skinned women need to stop feeling "some kind of way" towards light skinned women with all their perceived priviledge, and light skinned women need not feel any way superior as the system can turn on you in a dime because there will always be someone lighter and brighter than you."
Totally agree. I think about how two female friends I have who were raised by White mothers (one very blonde) were made to feel inferior because of their comparatively darker skin and coarser or curly hair texture. Being fetishized by Black men for looks that were disparaged by White people growing up was a breath of fresh air for them in college. Kind of like how many dark-skinned women feel when non-Black people praise and appreciate their African features.
Some White folks will help you understand that "lightskinned pretty chick" stuff is NOT a thing in a world where it is all about fetishizing blonde hair and blue eyes. For that matter, talk to brunette or olive skinned White women in a blonde family, or darker skinned Latinas. It's all the same problem and the oppression Olympics mentality can keep people from identifying the real enemy.
1 month ago on Okay; I’ll Admit It. I’m Feeling Some Kinda Way about the New Doc, “Light Girls.”
@dopechixx @LilaLeslie @HowardTyroneSmithII Have to agree. Black civic organizations were created by and for the "elite" among Blacks, and that almost always meant more European-looking.
Look at the founders of both organizations if you doubt what's being said. If you can find a line of dark-skinned DSTs from Howard in the early 1900s I'd be super impressed and no longer inclined to say that all Greek organizations founded in that era catered to the (typically, not always) light-skinned and/or moneyed Black elite.
I'm an AKA (not from Howard though).
It is hard to argue with a person's unique experience and how they feel about things. I am not here to argue down a woman of any background or color who has experienced oppression, discrimination or prejudice because of her appearance. I'm not here to look to the fetishizing of lighter skinned women as less painful to endure just because I am on the outside looking into that particular gilded cage. I wouldn't tolerate anyone minimizing my experience because of a privilege I have that they don't. So I will watch the documentary like I would any other, and hope to learn about an experience I don't know about firsthand.
I don't think my light-skinned grandmother felt any better about marrying a jerk who surely worshiped her considerable beauty, but still treated her with contempt and ultimately abandoned their children, because she was the prototypical Haitian mulatre prize. Is her pain easily minimized because of how she looked, because from the outside looking in, she is "lucky?" Frankly so were the dark-skinned women my grandfather surely passed over to get to my grandmother if we look at the person he was. My grandmother's best friend, much darker and more African looking, married a wonderful man and had a great long-lasting marriage.
Having said that, it is important for privileged people to keep things in perspective. Light-skinned people are privileged in societies that prize light skin, and most are quite happy to benefit from their privileges without apology. Many are completely unaware of and even perpetuate inequality, but many also despise it and actively reject being treated like a prize, or allowing others to be mistreated because of their darker skin color.
Very few people are COMPLETELY disadvantaged. Most people have at least one or multiple ways in which they are privileged. So I also don't want to see a pity party parade of Dark Girls, Light Girls, Brown Girls, Skinny Girls, Thick Girls, Tall Girls, Short Girls etc. etc. because there are advantages and disadvantages to all of those circumstances. That's where this media obsession with telling "all sides" gets ridiculous.
LOL but China is not Europe or South America. With their shortage of women and deeply collectivist and ethnocentric mentality this little Mandingo fantasy is going to wither on the vine. Picking off a few women in any culture is one thing, calling it a "movement" is another. Ain't nobody in China trying to marry their daughter or son off to African Americans generally, so the ones who do it are likely to be in defiance of family and culture.
Europe has always absorbed its Africans into the population and will continue to despite the stupidity of some women who are duped by foreign men (soldiers, basketball players etc). Same goes for Brazil but China? China doesn't play that, and what Africans bring to the table with natural resources and access to vast markets (and government money) is just not what even the most well-positioned African American had to offer. Elite Chinese especially are not going to sell their already scarce daughters to these broken down Bishop Magic Don Juans. Yes, anyone can go to the village and buy themselves a girl in many countries in the world. What else is new? But the fact that these dummies think anyone of quality is going to PREFER these arrangements that require the Chinese government to foot the bill for these ancestor-less losers to spawn and go they have another thing coming.
And the Middle East? They will have these fools reading manifestos and being beheaded on TV for trying to exploit women who are already being fully exploited and are under control of virulent patriarchies. Black men really, really need to get a grip.
1 month ago on Watch Out for ‘Childmen’ With Pathological Entitlement Issues
@Ri74 Hi there! Hope you are well. I always pop up eventually and this article was a thought-provoking one. Then I came across that sad piece of aspirational delusions of grandeur on my FB feed and I knew I had to share it for the laughs and utter exasperation.
Ultimately you can only be accountable for your own behavior, and if you worry about every sad sack of hot mess out there tarnishing the brand, you will lose the will to go on, because there are so so very many. This is going to take generations to rectify, but I'm not rolling up my sleeves to do a damned thing except move on.
An Eve that is innocent, naive, hardworking and too young to know she's being pimped. This has moved beyond white supremacist feelings of inferiority to a truly destructive disconnection with humanity in general and womankind specifically.
Nope, it isn't you two. These degenerates are so far gone they can only see with their penises and are on a seek-and-destroy mission for an "Eve"
Hey everybody look where the most edumacated and intellectuamalinzg DBRs are headed: China!!
I'm telling you these males are utterly deranged if they think the Chinese are going to sit by and watch a bunch of wanna-be Mandingos run wild and destroy their culture. I mean, seriously??? They compare themselves to the African entrepreneurs who are trading with the Chinese?? They think they are going to create some new race of Blasian lightskinned chicks for personal consumption?? And, again, we see that the means to their come up(pance?) are yet another population of women who must do all the work and raise babies alone?
@Brenda55 WOW. That picture is simply amazing. No other population of people would produce that meme. They have it completely backwards. SMH.
There are very few facts that aren't in dispute about both subjects. I am not bothered by lively debate and am not trying to convince you personally so much as lay out an argument for being legitimately skeptical of "traditional" views on the matter. All the same, good night to you.
1 month, 2 weeks ago on As Much as I Love Christian Bale, I WON’T Be Watching “Exodus: Gods and Kings.”
These colonial racial categories that people consider "scientific" are the least valid and reliable ways to represent one human race. How something that fails to meet the standards science sets for itself is easily explained by the cultural norms of the scientists. This is how Carleton Coon becomes a breath of fresh air even though he was only explaining what is easily observable to non-racist eyes. Other people need to come up with reasons why Swedes and Algerians living thousands of miles away are of one "race" but Algerians and Malians living virtually next door are two different "races."
I'm sorry that you are having an emotional reaction to my opinion, and I am not sure there is anything I can do about that. Claiming that a person whose heritage is unconfirmed on both sides is not exactly unbiased and is also speculation. But that's fine with me because no one knows for sure.
My brain works as well as anyone else's and I have formed my own conclusions about what I currently know. I'll change them when evidence warrants it. I don't need to prove that there is racial bias and anti-African white washing is a systemic problem in because the record speaks for itself.
I do not claim to be without bias and will freely admit to being highly skeptical of expert opinion that displays the systemic denial or minimization of the contributions of Africans in antiquity. I have similar views on some Afrocentrists who react to that by trying to overemphasize those contributions, but the issue at hand is not their scholarship or a widely shared perception that Egyptians all looked like Sudanese Dinka. When most people believe that Cleopatra looked like Alek Wek I will critique Afrocentric scholars' systemic blackwashing.
Their whiteness may or may not cotribute, but it is not uncommon for Westerners to display ethnocentrism when studying non-Western cultures. I consider myself a Westerner and I certainly do, but I try to be conscious of it. There has been a complete lack of consciousness about how ethnocentrism, imperialism, colonialism, racism etc colors one's regard of and study of phenomena. I can offer that critique without thinking that every person/scholar who has it is a bad person or has conscious malicious intent. I can't say the same for the system, however. They go with that grain, not against it, and I tend to be skeptical of that because of who I am, what I've read/seen and how I see things.
Their research is interpretive in nature, and I am drawing some different conclusions. I am not invalidating their research, I simply don't agree that they have a 100% correct interpretation of the facts and I question whether the unconscious biases that are built into the system aren't the reasons why they can't see what seems obvious to others.
@Michael_Miles It is definitely not unheard of, but it is quite difficult to control breeding even of royalty (insert Genghis Khan joke here). Especially when there is no incentive to preserve the line once you get to the throne, which is why successful inbreeding was less common than successful infighting and fratricide.
I have read Dodson and Hilton, as well as other historians and archaeologists who are experts on Egypt. There's a lot of ethnocentrism to get around, even among the most thorough and earnest scholars such as they are. They have been brainwashed too but it doesn't mean they are all wrong or dishonest. The Ptolomies were definitely Macedonian. Were they able to sustain Macedonian purity in Egypt ruling over Egyptians? I doubt it. No royal family has been able to do that successfully for multiple generations with no genetic or ethnic "resets." At least none that I know of.
I don't think a lot of people have an appreciation for the extent to which post-colonial Western and Islamic civilizations have gone to erase African contributions and presence from the historical record. Ancient people did not have color prejudice as we know it, and would have had no reason to use pretzel logic to explain why people who were from the African continent couldn't have possibly been of the "Black" race they constructed thousands of years after these people lived and died never seeing themselves racially at all.
Ashkenazi Jews are a prime example of this extreme denial, but not the only ones. People that left the Middle East looking indistinguishable from the average resident there today, and hundreds of years later (hardly enough time to significantly impact their appearance through natural selection), come back to Israel/Palestine looking more like native Indians, Slavs and Germans and somehow we should all pretend that their "inbreeding" kept them from mixing with the natives in Europe and Asia? We are supposed to pretend that a blue eyed, blonde haired biblical figure makes sense in any way? The only way it makes sense is culturally, and culturally speaking, European racial ideas and ethnocentrism have completely warped our thinking on Africa and the Middle East since the end of the Dark Ages.
I do apologize for writing so much on this but it seems painfully obvious. Let the Chinese start producing movies portraying like Julius Caesar, William the Conqueror or Christopher Columbus as East Asians WITHOUT making it clear that they are taking cinematic license, and just pretending as though they are representing history as it was, and and white people would raise hell. Rightfully so I'd say. It's one thing to get creative or inclusive and diversify/change the appearance of historical and iconic fictional figures, and another to construct a whole alternate reality in which your appropriation of someone else's history is normal, correct and "just the way it was." That is literally insane and there is too much excusing and tolerance of it because it is "normal" in Western culture for Whites/Europeans to do it. It has been normal for centuries, and a deliberate and systematic exercise that only modern science is starting to correct. Even then there is massive resistance from people who just can't accept that every good thing in history was created by or done by "White" people.
I remember the day I told my history professor that Jefferson kept Sally Hemings as a "mistress" and it was known that her children were of his line (some say a close male relative could be the culprit to be fair). He ripped me a new one. It was so emotional I remember it now almost 20 years later. Lo and behold, a few years later when the technology caught up, they proved it. I often wonder whether he was somewhere renting his garments and teetering on the edge of a cliff when he heard.
@Michael Miles And yet, her father and she infused the line with native Egyptian and Roman blood, respectively. Marriage is one thing, issue another. Cleopatra was legitimized by her father, and she legitimized her son. Ptolomies were just as likely to kill their sister-brother spouses than they were to breed with them, maybe even more likely to do so. So it's not likely that it goes back to two Greeks. You have to resort to extreme measures to keep two populations in close proximity from mixing over generations of living together. It has yet to happen despite those measures. It's human nature.
@BWC @zipporah I have heard that as well. Anyone who has seen what Jews native to that part of the Middle East look like knows that Jesus is not likely to have looked like a Renaissance era European.
Love that picture!
@Uvo Absolutely. And it continues today even despite the mountain of evidence that these *gasp* AFRICAN people looked like what most American people would call Black. Egyptian culture for thousands of years was of African origin and Egyptians were African people. They were not tan or whiteskinned Arabs. To say Egypt was a melting pot is correct, but to say that the minority of non-African people didn't melt into what we today would almost certainly characterize as a Black-looking population is kind of nuts. That would be like some Afrocentric scholar 2,000 years from now trying to say that the United States was a melting pot of European, African and Indian cultures but "blackwashing" all of the European founders just because the American population in 4014 is more brown than white looking.
No one has disputed that Cleopatra's paternal line is directly from Macedonia but as we all know very well, admixture is more likely to be visible than not. I see no reason to hang on to the idea that Cleopatra was "white" anymore than I see a need to believe that she looked like a modern day Kenyan or Nubian if she had a parent with very light skin and more Mediterranean features. Yes, it is possible but just not likely when a reasonable person can just glance at the medium brown to almost black skin of native people to that region and conclude that, if people with one "White" parent and one "Black" parent do not typically look like Elizabeth Taylor, Cleopatra probably didn't either. To me everything else is reaching, trying to hang on to that whitewashed view of history for dear life.
It really isn't disputed by people who are clearing their mind of hundreds of years of whitewashing. One doesn't have to "blackwash" in response to that, because I don't think that makes a lot of sense either, but it really bothers me when people try to lop off part of the African continent and pretend like people only "look Black African" far away from Egypt. It's utter nonsense.
@TitaniumFirefly @Statuesque No, it hasn't. It hasn't been "well-established" what Cleopatra looked like at all - her images vary and the remaining images of her are Roman and tend to be unflattering because she lost a war to the guy who won it (Augustus Caesar hated Cleopatra and is alleged to have hunted down her son by Caesar, Caesarion, and killed him so that there would be no disputing his claim to Julius Caesar's "empire"). One of many slurs against her in particular was that her blood was "tainted" on her mother's side. Most scholars believe she was a concubine and, while we don't know whether her mother was of Nilotic African or sub Saharan African descent, we do know that she was a native Egyptian. Native Egyptians do not tend to look like Elizabeth Taylor or your wife, with all due respect. Cleopatra was half-native.
Furthermore, people who do not have a racist or nationalist agenda to push are starting to answer some questions. Why would archaeologists examine her (full-blooded) sister's remains and conclude that she had an "African skeleton." Whatever that is, they've gone a step further than most scholars had prior in saying Cleopatra was of African heritage. I wouldn't expect Greeks who need to claim otherwise to do so. Russians at least openly acknowledge that Pushkin was mulatto, as do the French with Alexandre Dumas.
Cleopatra was not European. Europe did not exist at the time she lived. Believe whomever you want, but I tend to believe people who have actually studied the subject matter and reviewed the ancient record.
@zimekcyn @Statuesque @TitaniumFirefly Who was rumored, by the way, to be of mixed African and European ancestry. Creole, I believe. Vivian Leigh has South Indian heritage too!
@500and50 @IrvingLegagneurSr Egyptian (Arabs) white wash themselves first and foremost, and ancient Egyptians with the full endorsement of Europeans, who wish to do the same. They DO NOT want to be associated with Black Africans, even though we know damned well that ancient Egyptians and most current Egyptians are of blended heritage, and that heritage includes sub Saharan and Niolitic African ancestry.
The Idris Elba thing is more like Denzel Washington playing in Much Ado About Nothing. Highly unlikely but not completely out of line with reality given Sicilian history and proximity. What is typically portrayed on the screen in Hollywood is egregious and commonplace, as you stated above.
@TitaniumFirefly While Cleopatra was of Macedonian (Greek) ancestry on her father's side, her mother's identify and heritage are unknown. Since she was very well-versed in ancient Egyptian religion and culture, much more so than the average Egyptian of Greek background, it's commonly thought that her mother was a native Egyptian and she learned from her. Given what native Egyptians actually look(ed) like, there is very little chance Cleopatra looked anything like Elizabeth Taylor.
I agree 100% with Christelyn and the article. I won't deign to see this movie as it is grossly inaccurate. Instead, I'll amuse myself thinking about what the cast of Gone With the Wind would look like if the southern White folks were all played by East Asians or Africans, and the slaves by Europeans. This is as ridiculous as the casting of Exodus.
@Ri74 Hey there Ri74! I keep missing responses so sorry about that LOL
I am not sure I agree that the BC peanut gallery is behind this, because the most impactful time for Bill Cosby's perspective came and went, and the timing of these incidents mean that the PR trigger could have been pulled. Basically, in the midst of the "Come on, People!" tour and the TV appearances etc. would have been the time to neutralize Cosby if it were the folks you were talking about. I think everyone agrees these women and the allegations/rumors have dogged him for years (this is the biggest indictment for me...people don't spend YEARS talking about things that are simply made up in my experience...before the internet it was known in Black circles and Hollywood circles that he had these proclivities).
What I think makes a lot of sense is that Hollywood is behind it. He made the wrong person mad, he didn't return a favor, something. Hollywood is very insular and petty, but they generally keep each others secrets and provide stars latitude, especially in decades past (some of that is gone now). What is happening in Cosby's life now? He is trying to come back professionally - stand up, comedy specials and a new show. Imagine that (the let's face it) White men who pull the strings in Hollywood who are around these women - ex husbands, sons, in laws, friends, fathers, have known for years what happened but weren't in a position to do anything about it, or because Bill was too protected. He is not anymore. The cash cow was slaughtered. All of his enablers and handlers are past their prime and no longer influential. People have gotten older and regret looms large in the things you did that you shouldn't have done. So there are a combination of things that come together to propel a story forward that didn't exist before. Why now? The climate is right and the conditions are in place in a way they weren't before.
I have nothing to say in opposition to the PR machine, just that it doesn't stem for someone telling their truth our speaking out unless the machine went looking for the truth. I don't think the motives of all of these women are to simply tell a story either, but that doesn't negate the truth of what they are saying, it only tarnishes their motives.
1 month, 3 weeks ago on The Official Bill Cosby (Alleged) Rape/Rant Thread…
@DWB @Brenda55 @BWC The degenerate cop who committed child homicide in Cleveland was previously determined to be unfit for police duty, yet was able to circumvent the system by quitting before they fired him and wound up in the Cleveland police force with apparently no investigation into his background.
Where I work, we perform background checks on employees who will never be putting anyone's lives in direct danger and are not required to handle firearms or dispense justice. Why do we have a more robust vetting process than the police department?
Are these the lowered standards that I hear so many long-time cops talking about? Nope, they usually mean the inclusion of minority men and women plus White women, but they aren't completely off base to say that the aptitude for police needs to stay and remain high.
1 month, 3 weeks ago on Charles Barkley: “The Black Community Has a Lot of Crooks”
It's interesting that some Black people also seem to disrespect the President and First Family by getting "familiar" with them. Different reasons perhaps but the same outcome. This is not "Uncle Barry and them" down the road, but the frigging POTUS and his family. You can't complain about the millions of White people who refuse to give the President his due if you can't even shut your stupid mouth about the rear ends of his wife and daughter.
It's not wrong or creepy to notice that a young girl is becoming a woman but it is disgusting to leer and talk about it openly as if her body and a grown man's sexual interest in her is unproblematic. I'm sad to say that I am not surprised in the least that an individual like this would be tweeting about it, and is likely doing more than that in real life given his status and money. And then people wonder why it's easy to believe that Bill Cosby took it farther than ogling? Yeah, no...
1 month, 3 weeks ago on Objectifying Our Girls…Thank the Gods Malia Has Body Guards.
@Selmix @Statuesque What specific crime did they commit? Poor and disinfranchised people are denied justices hourly, in all sorts of ways. So are women who have been sexually assaulted or raped. So are men who want to be full parents after divorce.
It had to be a conspiracy to procure women, compensate them and/or cover up his behavior for years, whether he is a rapist, pedophile or just an indiscreet druggie philanderer. Many are culpable beyond Cosby, as you said, because he couldn't have done it without help.
@Selmix @Statuesque Sorry this was so far down I missed your response. My remark was not mean to imply anything other than the race of the women has been relevant to some of the women posting and it may matter to you.
I will try and find the link to the story of the Black woman. I looked on Facebook and the conversation I had with one of my friends is deleted. He put on a cape for Cosby with sequins and feathers early on and was calling the women THOTs, especially in reference to this particular woman who was not a doctor or lawyer. I find it hilarious that he deleted his post, but exposed himself to be quite the idiot with what he was saying by multiple women who had the misfortune of reading this crappy opinion.
I am not troubled by much of the things you cited. I would not be troubled by the revelation that Cosby took medication, or suffered from depression or anxiety. Rape is not about force per se. The fact that he is alleged to have used drugs to subdue and incapacitate women means force was not necessary. So why would lack of force become a reason to be suspicious about rape in these cases?
I don't know whether Cosby is a criminal but I do know that victims of sexual abuse often have messy stories that easily implicate them in their own exploitation, hence the reason they were targeted or were susceptible in the first place. What you see as puzzling I see as part of the usual picture and barely requires explanation it is so obvious.
@Ri74 I understand that public shaming is a well-used tactic. It's not the internet's fault that it exponentially increases the impact of human communication.
What I don't understand is why what "the public" chooses to do with information, and what corporate executives concerned about brand and profits choose to do with information, can be laid at the door of anyone but "the public" and perhaps the journalists covering the story.
If I stand up and say "I was sexually assaulted by <insert name of some rich, powerful celebrity guy>" how is that cyber-bullying? If you and 10,000 of your closest friends, choose to circulate a petition to get this guy fired how have I used the internet to do anything (except tell my story...but I probably did that in a press conference or in an affidavit)?
You can't blame the alleged victims or the perpetrator for what "the public" does. Unless you're saying the public was directly incited in some way by these women? How so?
@SirLoinDeBeef @Jamila Why are you setting a different standard for this evidence than what you have offered in defense (?) of Cosby.
What evidence can you provide that demonstrates that the motive of these women is to "use the internet as a means of punishing a person through extra-legal means?" I have seen no facts coming forth to support this point of view. Facts like personal statements on video/in print, sworn affidavits, or statements about their state of mind. Regret-rape? What does that even mean?
Not the effect of them coming forward, motive, because THAT is the legal standard required for your allegation. Similarly, the women are required to have sufficient evidence for their claims in a court of law.
Some of these women accepted financial compensation from Cosby and his handlers. What basis do they have to "punish" him through extra-legal means? Do you have any evidence of confidentiality agreements broken, extortion, or personal statements that indicate these women are "pretending" and "hysterical?"
The point is not that many women came forth and dominoes started to fall. That is basically how these things work - if you need a male example to see that it isn't about gender or (sigh) feminism, reference the majority of stories coming out of the Church sex abuse scandal. The point is that, if they are telling the truth, shame on Cosby and a whole slew of enablers. If they are lying, shame on them and they can be thrown in prison and/or become liable for reputational and financial damages.
No one is punishing him by stating the facts as they see them. These facts can either be verified, or must remain in the realm of he-said-she-said. The punishment comes from what people choose to do with the information now that it is public, if they decide to believe these women or back away from the situation to maintain their own reputations/income/etc.
If you think he is being punished, why not just say that he did it? Otherwise what is he being punished for?
Everyone here is just shooting their mouths off and none of it matters a lick to Cosby or those women. So without having done a, b or c above all I have to say is that I see no credible evidence that supports your point of view.
@NYMan Victims also decided to come forward. It seems like it is usually easier for them to do so once one or two already have, which makes sense to me.
Personally I think he forgot himself and crossed the wrong person in Hollywood and they are burning him in retaliation. It's not like there weren't allegations, attempted charges or rumors before so I have a hard time believing that it wasn't a known cover-up by many people and some magical combination of events on the internet brought it to light.
@Selmix It doesn't seem like you are familiar with the facts of the situation given your opinion. It's one thing to say you don't believe the women and another to propose hypothetical scenarios about why he is innocent that don't line up with the facts.
Yes, some women took money. Either before or after, some both. One woman (Black, since that may matter to you) is from Philadelphia and alleges that he paid her parents for sexual access when she was a young teen. She continued to have sexual relations with him into adulthood. She SAID all of these things, which made many people attack her character and motives. Why would a person who has NOTHING to gain from telling the truth about their complicity make these statements to "get money" when a flat out lie would remove more of the stigma?
The conspiracy was in the procurement of women and girls to provide America's Dad and Hollywood cash cow with his sexual fix. Yep, I'm sure a few police officers looked the other way or maybe did more. Lawyers and studio execs paid women to go away, or to stick around. Journalists and networks buried the stories or never considered them newsworthy to begin with, especially in the 60s/70s. And yes, some of the women in the mix were likely party girls or very naive to think America's Dad only wanted to help their pretty young selves further their careers.
My parents have a lot of faults, but they do not deify celebrities. They wouldn't have dropped me off at Bill Cosby's hotel room for private career advice. But people who love and admire America's Dad? the Cos could score young tail at record levels, especially with Black parents, and have this guy write the check to pay college tuition at Spelman or therapy bills for their trouble.
THAT is the way the world works. The interests and proclivities of the powerful are protected to an extent we often will
never see. This Cosby situation is rare so I do wonder what he actually did to have all of this come out. It was NOT the alleged rapes or assaults. Those had long been buried or excused away.
@SirLoinDeBeef He can sue them for slander or libel, so it is simply not true that an accuser has no chance of facing cross-examination. There are criminal charges of fraud or extortion that could be leveled. There is a statute of limitations on criminal charges being filed, not on the truth being told in public.
And Bill Cosby is not being accused of one youthful indiscretion. I imagined the scenario above and found it to be irrelevant to his situation as it has been presented.
@Jamila THANK YOU. This is the same reaction I had when the Catholic priest abuse scandals started coming out. Are people seriously in denial about how traumatic sexual abuse and victimization is to the people who experience it?
@Letta @Selmix @MsEva @Ri74 He did stop these women dead in their tracks if even a third of them can be believed. First, he'd have chosen vulnerable women or women whose character is far from impeachable, or who were making poor decisions (like being in the same room with him). Then he would have orchestrated situations in which they'd either do what he wanted, or drugged them to make sure. Even if a woman went to his room etc. doesn't mean she asked to be drugged. Finally, he paid them. The fixers have spoken, and are only stating what people have known for years. Just like the Catholic Church's abuse scandals all you have to do is follow the money. Some of these women accepted money but likely discovered that it couldn't make up for what he may have taken from them.
People need to realize that true professionals and hard core takers can be bought, like the women who service Wall Street, elite athletes, and Hollywood. Cosby was rich enough to buy this sort of arrangement with any willing woman or women, and there would have been plenty. He was rich was decades, and certainly could afford to keep the bodies buried. This is unraveling because people are fed up with keeping his secrets, not because he is being framed. If he had kept his dirty *** at home he wouldn't have to worry about it...
These women are talking even though he won't go to jail and it is only going to tarnish their lives and reputations. But victims of sexual abuse are frequently shamed into silence for many, many years, either directly by others or because they can't speak about it, haven't processed it, or maybe even don't remember. People asking why they didn't say something at the time really, really need to be better informed about the impact of sexual abuse and rape on victims.
@thecrazyartist This made me laugh out loud on a plane!!
1 month, 4 weeks ago on Resignation of GOP Staffer Proves What Happens When Black Womanhood is Protected
Couldn't agree more. I spoke harshly about Bush and his policies but I did not drag his children through the mud to express my disapproval of the job he was doing as President.
There is a whole Tumblr page dedicated to racists getting fired. It's hilarious. Again, it's morally questionable to publically shame someone for their beliefs, these people are hard for me to feel sorry for given their stupid and racist views.