j_scott_o
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@HoustonVol I agree. Winning the Heisman should be in there. And, agree with the advancement in the NCAA tournament as well. Also, I'd think a victory in your conference championship as well as bowl game victory should be taken into account as well. Still, kinda fun to look at.
@XEN610 When there were talks about my Aggies hopping to the SEC a couple years ago, I told my friends here in Louisville that they should be trying to get into the Big12. When McConnell was pushing to "sneak" them in, I was hoping they'd get in. Not that I like either the Big12 or Louisville, but, I do like my friends and college sports. I didn't think there would be any way the SEC would take them with Kentucky already a member. And, I believed (and still do) the Big12 would be a better fit than the ACC.
I agree with Spurrier's frustration here. This is all about recruiting. Your team does well and you still have to fight an uphill battle in the recruiting wars. Not the the Trojans are in direct competition with the Gamecocks over recruits, but, the Trojans are getting airtime while the Gamecocks are not. Sidenote: Spurrier is a coach I love to hate. But, if he is your coach, ya love him.
@alamoaggie08Although I do agree with you for the most part on Baylor getting in thanks to Ann Richards (and Grant Teaff), it isn't exactly factual about saying Baylor never played like a Div 1 team. Back in the 80s, Baylor fielded some good teams and was ranked a few times.
Going back to the politics though, Houston was the team that really got screwed. And, TCU, ironically, was the team that really benefitted. They were one of the bottom feeders of the SWC, but, after being shunned by the Big12 merger, they ended up playing much lesser competition...and winning. This led to better recruits and an upgade in their program. Now, it will be interesting to see how they do in the Big12 against better competition.
As far as I'm concerned, he can put all the Horns tattoos on his body that he wants. As long as he continues to suit up for the Aggies and win games, I'm satisfied. And, if Horns' fans want to take solace in Manziel being a Horns fan, well, good for them, if that makes them feel better. He's still winning games for their non-rivals. And, I'm good with that.
Ok, that Jeff Gordon video had me rolling. Hilarious!
John,
I really admire your site and you. And, this is one of the reasons I come here for veracity of a rumor. Well done and well said.
Understand what you are saying and totally agree that Saban was in a pretty much a no-win situation. I just think if he had canned the 2 that confessed immediately, that would have sent a stronger more decisive message to everyone...players, students, fans, media, rivals, etc.
As for the legal fronts...what legal front? This is the part I don't understand...this CYA reasoning. You kick 2 players that confessed to a crime off the team and you are worried that they will sue you? For kicking them off the team for committing a crime? For confessing to beating a student? I just don't get that part. This all has to do w/ them confessing....nothing else. To me, and obviously others, that kinda ends it right there.
Didn't misintrepret anything you said and fully understand what you are saying with your hypothetical. But, lets take your hypothetical as reality. It does not change the fact that the 2 confessed. They are young men...adults. They are accountable for their actions. If they confessed...boot them immediately. The rest of the story would come out and the other 2 would be dealt with accordingly by Bama.
Not sure where this is coming from except as an extension of a different part of this thread. And, the "name calling and accusations of an arrest record"????? Anyway, it is nice for you to jump in with something germane.
@Tusk @alamoaggie08 @torris187
You mentioned "procedural violations"...are Miranda Rights not part of procedure? What other "procedures" are your referring? No lawyer? No phone call? What?
Regardles, you are arguing from a legal standpoint. This has NOTHING to do with them being booted from the team. If they confessed to the crime, that is the end of it. As far as Saban and Bama should be concerned, it does not matter if there were "procedural violations" in obtaining the confessions. And, as for CYA...if it turned out that they didn't confess or didn't commit this crime, they could easily be let back on the team. By your reasoning of CYA, if that is what Bama really wants to do, then why not wait til everything with this case is over? Wait to see if they are found guilty in court. Wait to see what happens. Wouldn't that really be CYA???
@Tusk @alamoaggie08 @torris187
Seriously, this is your best response? Did you even read what you typed prior? You talk about "procedural violations"? So, what are you saying? If they confessed w/o being given their Miranda Rights, Saban would have said, 'oops, we have to keep them on the team...they weren't read their rights'!!!! Good grief. You are trying to argue from a legal standpoint...which does not apply to being a part of a team or organization.
This argument is nothing more than a red herring. I don't recall anyone saying all 4 should immediately be booted. The immediate dismissal that people talked about only pertains to the 2 individuals that confessed. Not the other two. Granted, I believe they should have been booted as well, but, not until more information was obtained. This all has to do w/ the confession. If those 2 had not confessed, then I feel Saban would have been justified in finding out more.
@I4BamaNot sure how much more "intimate knowledge of the facts" you need. The 2 players confessed to the crime of beating a fellow student. This is a de facto admission that they had committed a crime and agreed it was a crime. What more intimate knowledge is needed? How severely the dude was beaten? I mean, c'mon.
John,
Agree with you 100%. These fans who are talking about "due process", etc are off base. If the 2 players confessed to the crime, that is the end of it. They should have been booted immediately. It is nice to say Saban took "immediate action". Big flippin' deal. Having the players run stairs for 10 minutes is also taking "immediate action". There is a difference between "immediate action" and "appropriate immediate action".
And, what would these players have done once booted from the team? Claim they were unjustly booted? They committed a crime...they beat a student to a pulp. C'mon. And, for argument's sake, lets say it turned out these players didn't mean to confess and it turned out they were innocent. There is absolutely no rule in place that says once you are dismissed from a team that the coach/school/administration can't let you back.
In the end, Saban did the correct thing. But, this doesn't change the fact that those 2 that confessed should have been dismissed from the team immediately.
@AllTideUp @Brad_ATX @DaveinExile
Did you really just say that Saban took "definitive action" b/c he "indefinitely suspended" the players? I think that fits the definition of oxymoron.
Exactly what I was thinking when I read this article. Guess he doesn't realize Joeckel is from A&M and that he just might be the overall #1 pick. And, Matthews is gonna be a high 1st round pick next year. I think he just wanted to make a cute little statement.
@AGator @I4BamaActually, if they are "suspended", then they ARE still part of the team. If they were "dismissed" from the team, then they would no longer be a part of the team. Bama should investigate the 2 players that did not confess. But, the two players that did confess to the crime (which was the most brutal part of this particular crime) should immediately be booted. I really don't understand all this confusion when someone actually confesses and when this is not a legal matter when it comes to booting a player.
I hope you aren't a teacher! Good grief...what a bunch of gibberish! Do you even read what John wrote? Did you even read the articles on these players? It makes me wonder b/c you are comparing 2 players that CONFESSED to the Duke Lacrosse players who did NOT confess. That is a HUGE difference. Do you think if you worked for a major company like, were arrested for a crime, and confessed to it that your employer would put you on temporary leave? If so, buddy, I've got some ocean front property in Arizona for you at a very cheap price. The whole key to John's arguement regarding the two players is they CONFESSED. This isn't really rocket science. As for the judge, police office, and POTUS...they all work within the legal realms, granted, the POTUS could 86 you in a flash if he wanted. And, as for the doctor and therapist comment, they have a different responsibility to you, but, I'm sure they could refuse service to you as well. None of the comparisons you make are germane to this article. Maybe next time you post something, you won't try to act like you are objective and accuse someone else as being emotional.