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@beihai @MJRaichyk @USDemocratFirst of all, you drag out all sorts of data that is not part of the studies and then claim your results are indicative of no harm over here, yet the answer that USDemocrat supplied showed if you read for the relevance to selected fluoride levels, that although there was a range of populations at different levels all 26 of 27 showed the IQ lowering and 20 showed a significant lowering, AND of those, 12 were at levels being imposed on American children since 1.4 million people are subjected to levels between 2.1-4mg/L and 0.6 million are subjected to 1.8-2.0mg/L and there was even one study done at 0.88mg/L which is even less than the usual EPA required 1.0mg/L to which 200 million are subjected.
And even in the article you cited, the author presented one study that she was alarmed by, namely one that was matched for "ages and backgrounds" with what appears to be 1.8mg/L so officially 'safe' by government authorities here. And that 2003 study found an 8 point lowering in IQ. Want to risk your child, want to force others to risk theirs, want to deprive low income families to disproportionately be subjected to this 8 point drop in their IQs and futures.
Even better, had you read the commenters at the article you'd have found this gem.
It is too bad you didn't read the right article. http://www.fluoridealert.org/studies/brain01/
Harvard reviewed 43 DIFFERENT fluoride related studies and came to the conclusion:
"As of May 2013, a total of 43 studies have investigated the relationship between fluoride and human intelligence, and a total of 19 studies have investigated the relationship fluoride and learning/memory in animals. Of these investigations, 37 of the 43 human studies have found that elevated fluoride exposure is associated with reduced IQ, while 19 of the 20 animal studies have found that fluoride exposure impairs the learning and memory capacity of animals. The human studies, which are based on IQ examinations of over 11,000 children, provide compelling evidence that fluoride exposure during the early years of life can damage a child’s developing brain."
You can continue to drink fluoridated water if you like, but it may hamper your memory and decision making abilities. Not to mention what's waiting for you down the road with the increased risk of dementia because fluoride causes uptake in aluminum absorption.
If a direct link is proven between fluoridated water consumption and diminished intelligence or Alzheimer's, the class action lawsuit will dwarf that of the tobacco companies.
Unfortunately the corrupt history of the decision to impose fluoride on the public in order to alleviate industrial waste expenses, will not produce anything like the compensation for lost life chances.
So take your false disinformation and cease obfuscating the data in order to preserve your own status.
11 months, 2 weeks ago on Conversation @ http://www.newrepublic.com/article/114722/abolish-public-schools-ron-pauls-education-proposal
@beihai @USDemocrat @MJRaichyk Clearly you never read the article cited by USDemocrat because it addressed the FALSE CHARGES YOU'RE MAKING. Specifically, all the studies but one were done on water fluoridated to levels that over 200MILLION Americans drink -- water that's fluoridated to the levels considered safe by the USEPA on their books and included as the basis for study in all but one of the studies, an outlier. Only one of the studies was for the higher level, something that's within the dose-response sort of figuring done by statisticians looking for correlations.
And in fact one of the studies at the low end of the fluoridation scale was done at a level that almost precisely measures the USEPA 'optimal' level promoted just this past year as HHS' latest downward-adjusted recommendation.
Yet you are spreading disinformation to the harm of American children. The current levels of fluoride are demonstrated to relate to a SEVEN POINT DROP IN IQ. With even more harm to senior citizens as well.
And we further challenge your FALSE claim that you can't ingest massive amounts of vitamin C without it becoming toxic. The FDA's RDA for C is a government-blessed 100mg and research -- here and abroad -- is demonstrating that medical benefits are vitally possible for patients in extreme danger (such as cancer patients with coma-inducing complications) that are THOUSANDS OF TIMES HIGHER THAN THE FALSE SECURITY OF THE RDA. The internet is far better as a world for learners to explore and develop the skills proposed in Dr Paul's curriculum.
But I'm sure you can come up with more false claims from the fountain of harm known as the FDA, another GOVT PUBLIC safety servicing organization whose regulators we would be wanting to abolish, justifiably.
@USDemocrat @MJRaichyk Thank you for confirming that for those here... It's unfortunate that it would possibly take so long for some in control of 'public' safety and especially those in the 'health' departments to still be ignoring the preponderance of results.
The alarms started to go off in the 1980s, then levels were reduced but those charged with public health refused to consider the then accumulating information on consequences of many sorts, from bone brittleness, to hyperactivity, to various other diseases, til in 1998 the USEPA lab scientists and engineers demanded their own water be free of fluoride...
That was already 15 years ago and we have only the internet to thank for the safety that we can access, while the poor and the unaware continue to get hazards instead of decent chances to make the choice to sidestep the problem now being hidden by government officials.
Where would you want your own children to be proficient in information extraction, evaluation and processing? The government textbooks, public/health education pamphlets, dumbed-down science geared to the lowest common denominator... or the internet with neutrality and connectivity to the wide world of information..
Our local water plant would like to be free of having to handle the highly toxic canisters needed for the regulator-required treatment but they cannot just stop, even as a sane management decision.. ttyl, thanks again
@beihai @MJRaichyk @JoshFinkbeiner @USDemocrat and again you throw out all the other variables in the equation. So once you have lowered the IQ of the wider population then you can use the taxation system to reduce access to stimulating learning opportunities and the ball rolls on, adding burdens to the fluoridated.. And yes the research is out online that fluoride reduces IQ and the rich are the ones with expensive reverse osmosis systems in their household water, while the poor class does not. Mexican children have a totally different environment, including ubiquitous mobsters supplied with weapons from Eric Holder, among other difficulties.
Take the US 'law' against marijuana, and add to that the racial targeting of black youth for stop and frisk, all unconstitutional. Then watch the harm compound. The use of marijuana is slightly higher among whites but the compound burden of the combined trap, results in more blacks being arrested and convicted on 'drug' charges. Resulting the cops escalating their targeting so that it's 12 times more likely that a black kid will be targeted for the cop's illegal searching. Then the public is fed the data that black kids are brutal criminals with high crime potential. Leading ever downward, because of that pair of unfair 'law' enforcement tactics.
So don't think that the fluoridation is so minor, and for the record IT WOULD BE LESS EXPENSIVE TO NOT PUT THE STUFF IN. So someone is making out criminally to the detriment of children who do not have the ability to carry their own half gallon of water per day in school. like rich schools supply. AND LIKE THE US EPA SCIENTISTS AND LAB ENGINEERS WHO MADE IT A REQUIREMENT FOR THEIR OFFICES TO BE SUPPLIED WITH NON-FLUORIDATED WATER, based on their own research on its biological effects, but the so-called Health Dept makes sure you have the fluoridation in the PUBLIC WATER to the detriment of all those who haven't done the reading of research papers. Look in the Court houses, the legislative chambers and such and see that they get non-fluoridated bottled water, at least in the courthouses and chambers where we have contact.
There are multiple factors in this equation for prospering.
@JoshFinkbeiner @beihai rotfl... down with them all.. top to bottom
@Miceelf88 @MJRaichyk @beihai @JoshFinkbeiner @USDemocrat Wake up, the idea is for parents to learn how to negotiate with their children to accomplish everyone's goals. Dr Paul even offers parents the opportunity to learn along with their children for some subjects, indicating that he expects parents to be learning new relationships as co-learners.
Libertarians should be acknowledging their children's rights as people for whom they are responsible for providing basics. Children who sense that their parents are genuinely engaged in decent respectful care, are far more patient and co-operative in their own effort to enable parents to accomplish what they all need.
If that's not how you operate then you have some distance to go. and are likely still poisoned in your thinking by the 'teachy' insulting model like we see around here..
@beihai @JimWeathers How absolutely perfectly you describe yourself -- as a cultist acolyte of the schoolish model where diminished people are expected to be genuflecting to government approved authorities.. that's your idea of a leader. Instead of as someone who's been down the path ahead and has shown demonstrated ability to travel with integrity so clear that others resonate with the integrity and seek his company. That's how parents lead. Not like 'teachers'.
It's your ideology that's idiotic, with its slavish licking of government boots and enslaving children to institutions that deny them freedom so that you can collect a salary and benefits at taxpayers expense and threaten them with loss of the sitter service factory schools provide
@beihai @stewbrown500 Actually that replication of what makes homeschoolers successful is what Dr Paul is doing, namely getting rid of those sheepherders called teachers/administrators and getting children the empowerment that comes with parental enabling and caring.
The performance of the Shanghai students is not credit to their 'schools'... it justly is credited to the students and their parents who are highly motivated to compete in their own socio-cultural structures. It's the LEARNERS who do the work, not some myth of teachers pouring information into waiting blank heads. You continually insult the Shanghai students and steal their accomplishment,. Just like the wealthy school districts do to their students when the superintendent of the well-endowed region crows because the school does 'excellent' on state standards. You are a thief, stealing children's prizes..
@beihai @JoshFinkbeiner @USDemocrat Again you ignore other crucial factors, like for instance the fact that Shanghhai's city water supply IS NOT FLUORIDATED LIKE US WATER NEARLY EVERYWHERE.. along with the research that IQ is reduced by fluoride in the water... and the list goes on and on, with the out of control health departments and FDA etc. Your claims are false.
@beihai @JoshFinkbeiner @USDemocrat FALSE ANALOGY. The park and the resort may be doing the same entertainment function, but homeschooling and public schooling are not doing the same function.
The public school is focused by its foundation principles on indoctrinating the youth to bow and genuflect to authority as can be seen in the proliferation of court cases against schools for their abuse of children's human rights. Home schooling is focused on enabling the child to exercise their self-direction and self-motivation. Hence your analogy fails.
It is so intriguing to see how blinded are the academics in these arguments. Every idea of success is based on their academic ladders, as if those ladders lead to anything like meaningful work for all. Which is what they griftingly imply.
We lived for a while in the Blue Ridge mountains of VA and will report that unlike the know-it-all academics that unschooled children in those areas, whose parents had no big education, nor big incomes, were doing very proficiently (motivated by reading what fit their interests), not only in the basic skills that are what are required for 'progressing' in the school requirements, but they were acquiring wide knowledge of areas that were part of THEIR LIVES. Their lives are what their parents were focusing on, and parents became involved in their children's interests, and vice versa. Imagine that, Families where siblings shared interests and respect. By the time those unschooled children finish their regulated school years, they had a PORTFOLIO of well developed employable skills that matched their chosen life's interests.
Similarly, single mothers also have found ways to successfully homeschool even though their child's interests led them onto unfamiliar territory.
As for the academic proficiency of the public schooled, they become proficient in spite of the methodologies and its practitioners. My son did fully explore that world. His outside-the-curriculum reading made him captain of the academic team, and his intellectual abilities were propping up that school's 'excellence' standing. And let me tell you about the lesson in civic education that he endured as the highest vote-getting candidate for senior class president, til the vice principal altered the tally as reported by one of his teachers. Let me tell you, just how much he didn't care!!
As for my own refereeing of his progress in understanding such amazing tragedy, he wasn't very hospitable to my suggestion that he didn't have a chance unless that historic liar would confess since students have no rights to oversee votes and are being trained to acquiesce to authority at all costs. And his private idea was that he should be content to be vice president and make as much 'understanding' of the lack of student rights as he could.
As for my own background, I will tell you that when I got my PhD, I had the realization that this process of writing a dissertation was more like the creativity in problem solving and motivated seeking of information was much more like my unschooled daughter's life-led unschooling than any pedogogy-structured classroom. Unschooling was more like graduate edu than 'schooling' was -- home or factory.
As someone who has served in a capacity as a professor as well as independently in the business world as a mathematical decision analyst, I will tell you that the current math programs, ALL OF THEM, are a gross failure.
In the work I do, I have seen JUDGES WHO CAN'T DO LOGIC (a math skill), and sanitarian engineers (so called) who can't read a formula, solve it for a needed variable and build a spreadsheet to do sizing calculations. And the list goes on and on.
With such judges, it's no wonder this government has become a police state, and the media (such as it is) is nothing more than a mouthpiece for governing authorities because they couldn't do sleuthing if their lives depended on it, and that may come as well.
At least with the proposed cyber education agenda being proposed by Dr Paul would have the motivation recovered for learning and that is a powerful tool.
As for the expressed fear that we should be fearful of having no ObGyn from the current way of instruction, we would point you to the medical statistics done that show that midwives did better on average than the MDs.
As for the author's idea that his chosen database should be trusted, we'd suggest that he'd better trust the unemployment data from similar government sources, b/c it's likely as unreliably twisted to entertain the so called US social science reporting that is widely criticized as puffed with mythical propaganda that the rest of the world recognizes as untrustworthy. TTYL
StephenSmith1. TomPower1. mogul264.
First of all, the valid statistical polls are not just self-selected, which this group would be...
and second of all, we still have a racial problem in this country, unless you subscribe to the idea that 93% of women voters would vote for a woman candidate over a male one.... they don't... but we still see these race-baiting games being effective when 93% of black voters swing to a black candidate over another race. Similarly, we saw excessively high percents of 'color' voters in the 'color' candidate's column...
even in government union battles at the expense of taxpayers... perhaps you can envision what happened in Ohio, under the contest with the unions, those teachers and government workers had favorable access to the ballot box with the afternoon off to go vote, and they and their self-serving relatives swamped the balloting after thoroughly threatening working parents with loss of their children's safety in the classroom and loss of the working parents' access to schoolage-daycare-services while they worked...
just like the school levy promoters characteristically used to threaten the catholics with loss of their 'free' bussing services if the public school levy didn't pass... resulting in those catholic and private schools then blocking the ballot-control that public school parents should have had when they were dissatisfied with school performance.
And who would control what bills were proffered, the number of bills could be out of control.. the whole committee structure would seem to have a purpose that does not get served in the free-for-all idea.. much as it is tempting when we see the current mess... ttyl
1 year, 9 months ago on Nullification Victories!
@StephenSmith1 @TomPower1 @mogul264 The tyranny of the 'majority' would devolve into multiple tyrannies of minorities, under the description of your own vision of barely 5% at any one time being interested in the issue they have proffered. Total chaotic back and forth as the next issue compounds the flaws in the previous. Becoming more like a brawl. ttyl
@DorotheaTeasley @KansasBright Dorothea, your logic is so full of holes as to be laughable. You proclaim you are so free and then a dozen lines later you proclaim that you, and we, are born 'bonded (enslaved)' by choice of force!!! You blather on about how our initial colonists just were so free in their minds and lives, yet you clearly admit that they were ONLY as free as the King allowed BY NEGLECT..
You are the one you has no understanding of the reality of what the constitution is. You fail to see that it is a contract that binds us and we (our founders ) wrote it to establish a form of government (to avoid anarchy with no government) that would not violate the freedoms that we are entitled to under our nature and religiously held ideas. That contract defines our civic self, as surely as if defines that limits put on the states and the federal government as to what they can do as the other parties to that contract that our founders signed and that we have continued (at least those who honor their solemn contracts) grant governing rights as long as those actions of that government do not violate the terms of the contract. The contract does establish the rules and we live under the rule of law, to the extent that the constitution as a contract is not violated. Under those rules we may withdraw consent to be governed and use our rights as jurors to judge the laws made as well.
Hope you don't ever go around making such frozenly unbounded self-contradicting statements in your own contract dealings or you are cooked. ttyl.
@KansasBright @FRENCHIE Our own medical establishment is precisely that, a cartel, complete with control of licensees... the medical structure fits the Hitlerian scheme, and should likely be seeable in that history, though they attempt to hide behind claims of scientific-truth, which is not the reality, and is why the FDA should be on our list to take down... ttyl
@DorotheaTeasley @KansasBright @KrisJackson Read Calvin Coolidge again, and then Reuban Clarks' finale that it's our allegiance to the Constitution that defines us as free people, which then leads to the writer's statement, so crucial to see... that it is our duty to be part of the constitution-defined government, not to be part of the governed-over... and then ask yourself would someone who was part of the government, not the governed over, be unable to stand in a courtroom PRO SE and challenge the corruption inside government...
Yet how much of such powerful knowledge as standing pro se in an ordinary courtroom is ever permitted to be shown to students, with a limit to a few hand-picked -to-be-lawyers as special enrichment opportunity once.... as homeschooling makes its way to be accepted, we should initiate such opportunities universally, and then let anyone follow the ease of introducing new ideas that matter as can be done by homeschooling... and maybe a libertarian charter school...
We should start practicing getting comfort in knowing the rules and forms in our local courts, know their websites' resources, and visualize taking our own place in governing as part of our allegiance to our constitution of freedom.
We have done it a couple of times, and find some changes in thought processes harder to pick up on the fly. As a builder and mathematician, my natural inclination is to put ideas together to make my argument as those ideas are emerging, but that's verboten in a court, where the rules only allow dragging out all the pieces and ideas during questioning, and only putting them together at the conclusion in the 'argument' presentation. This I find is prone to loss of strength in construction, but the rest of the process and forms are not that huge of an obstacle if you enjoy paperwork and digging. The lawyers for the opposition are obviously not appreciative, and their clients are penalized by having to pay the lawyers' bills, one way you can disadvantage overly-advantaged opponents.
@Monorprise @West Texan Very good point, that generational education problem is crucial. There were massive numbers going to Dr Ron Paul's events on campuses. And yet that was in spite of the indoctrination -- both 'trust govt' ideas as well as the physical incarceration feeling of isolation from your parent/sibling support that naturally has supported the early learning of independence. So clearly, we have to get back to the parent/sibling/home sort of learning venue.
In Ohio we have cyber charter schools so that parents can keep their youngsters well supplied with res independent and able-expecting people. For parents who currently cannot be at home enough, there would be grandparents for some of them, which would work. Alternatively, a voucher system would give parents at least more control of such small operations as may be considered to be more home-support for children's rightful independence in learning.
Surely, if libertarian ideas can supply us with homeschooling ideas, there must be enough networking support to build a charter school alternative, don't you think? And multigenerational homes would be more financially stable with grandma's SSA and she'd have care for her bigger household chores, and be more likely able to support small businesses that develop with new ideas...
And ultimately, cutting down school-levy needs would move more tax dollars into circulation for better results... but that's longer term.... ttyl
@RogerDodger it was Romney's own fault. The GOP chose to play the sex-card in order to steal voters' attention away from Ron Paul's growing following on the real issue of the financial/monetary/budget issues that the GOP/Romney crowd were afraid of.. so the GOP's stupid agenda on birthcontrol for unmarried women, and abortion-after-rape ideas sent women back to Obama..
And when that fine kid in the hoodie was suffering from the mismanagement of the Florida cop's racist behavior, Romney could have joined the outcry by millions of white/euro netizens who demanded justice and accountability from the cops, but he shied away and let the racist Democrats play race-baiting games on the airwaves... to Obama's benefit, since the exit polls show the incited racism is ugly and virulent, with 93% blacks voting for O, 74% asians and 69% hispanics so all the 'people of color' are allowing their own racism to lead their voting, regardless of what damage O has done to their own neighborhoods and jobs..
So Romney is the one to blame for Obama's victory. His own cheating and his lack of leadership has cost us another 4 years of O.. ttyl
@Michael Boldin Unfortunately, Costa Rica is one of the places in the history books where the FDA did grab a non-violent American and so we do think your confidence is not enough. As for the drug war, the Libertarians have that as one of their major issues in the form of their Vice Presidential candidate Judge Gray. See you in the trenches.
2 years ago on The Rosa Parks Method for Liberty
@Michael Boldin you didn't answer my question. Where is the defense against the FDA's standard practice of using bounty hunters, whether the FDA can get state co-operation. I have granted that the nullification strategy has power, but not with any confidence that it is as bloodless as you portray it. History records that bounty hunters do not care which governing pockets pay them.
In short unless you have an actual plan to cut the pockets dry, as well as nullifying at the state level, there is not a decent way to follow this path with any confidence. And yes, we are not neophytes and have pushed our legislators, to use nullification law forms, but even when we find an open ear, this is not enough. Funding the federal government has to be cut WITHOUT breaking the law, which I believe is doable if everyone thought about it. And I object to the idea that we in the background are not already shouldering our load in this battle. Including the courtroom battlegrounds. With no results and no sensible confidence in that route, yet the tangle doesn't end so easily.
Although I agree with your nullification by non-compliance concept, it appears from your confidence in success that you are oblivious to what DC's henchmen will do when the State and Local (if you're lucky) resist the idea of helping... we doubt your assurances..
in the medical confrontations, the FDA has simply used bounty hunters to kidnap medical personnel, going so far as to violate international sovereignty borders and citizen rights, even kidnapping foreign nationals. Torture and death are still their reality. Where's your strategy for such..
I want to hear what you have as your confidence before accepting the idea that your leadership is where Ron Paul supporters should turn exclusively.
Not when there's a viable candidate YET that does make the constitutionality ideas stand up as prime.
Now if the system blocks the Libertarian candidate from participating in the Debates then truly nullification and non-compliance -- in many forms -- is all that's left. For now our best bet is to focus on getting Governor Gary Johnson into the Debates, and that is the current goal at garyjohnson2012.com so come and join in.
We do suppose Gary Johnson is our best hope for liberty's banner carriers. ttyl