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 @OpheliaBenson In regards to hyper-sensitivity / troll false positives, can I get your comment of the treatment Justin Vacula has received at the hands of many in the FtB community?


I'll admit I've not read everything Justin has ever written on this matter so I may well be missing some insults he may have hurled or character attacks he has made, however everything I have seen from him has been respectful and sincere and most importantly skeptical.


This is one of the best examples of what I'm talking about, in fact I think it illustrates most people's concern with FtB/SkepChick (though obviously SpokesGay is a very extreme example).


Here we have someone claiming that any disagreement with the "only side" of a story is bigotry/sexism (which I feel is peoples primary grievance with certian members of FtB, that dissent of any form is not tolerated and evidence of misogyny), we have insults thrown at Justin and we have Justin continuing to ask questions that would be enlightening to what the opposition believes if they were answered.


I'm afraid if these are "troll questions", then I must be a troll as well, since they're the sort of questions I would ask if I was told I must hate women and view them as sub-human if I disagree with "There is only one side to this story and anything else is bigotry" (for example I am concerned with the strong reliance of anecdotes and rumour and lack of empirical evidence when people are making claims about the nature and scale of the problem, and the fact expressing such concerns are seen as victim blaming or misogyny, I also have concerns about proportionality of focus but its impossible to have a discussion about proportionality without measurement, and people seem to be willing to claim any mention of proportionality is instant proof of wanting to silence women or not care about harassment, while caring about harassment should necessitate care about measurement since measurement is vital to solving problems)


I understand that you've had a falling out with Justin given you felt he dishonestly represented your views on his podcast. However, I haven't seen that matter proven either way, and given how eminently open and reasonable I've seen Justin being, and the fact you labelled him a troll and ended discussion while he was still willing to talk out, I am tempted to give Justin the benefit of the doubt (though I still don't know if he was being dishonest based on the available evidence)


You may very well be completely right about Justin but from a 3rd party outsiders perspective it does not look like you are on solid ground when you don't ask or answer questions, use insults, and ultimately end the discussion (bans) without resolution, especially when you continue to talk about the incident afterwards.


To put it another way, even if Justin is in the wrong, he's acting how you should do if you're in the right, which is being open to hearing grievances, asking questions, not use insults and be willing to accept you might be wrong.


I would also posit that if I can't ask this legitimate question without also being accused of being a troll or supporting misogyny (given that I've never seen Justin act in bad faith but I'm not ruling out the possibility and am open to seeing evidence of it), that it would strongly confirm to me that FtB has gone firmly out the bounds of the marketplace of ideas.


I know I could not be as calm under the level of insults Justin has received, so it makes me think there would be no point in talking to anyone from FtB if such a calm person inspires such vitriol.

2 years, 8 months ago on Being Right Doesn’t Guarantee That You’re Not Wrong – By Jacques Rousseau