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March 2010 defect ignored completely: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-7606
2007... you all know this bug: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-1509
Still unresolved: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-4196
A lovely one: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-4632
A fun bug from 2008: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-2359
Great web bug that should take an hour to fix: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-814
had this one just yesterday.. from 2007: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-3912
i can keep going... and those are just ones that LL hasn't forced closed... I've not even looked at the list of those.
2 years, 8 months ago on Philip Rosedale: The Media Is Wrong, SecondLife Didn’t Fail
@Gwyneth Llewelyn "Similarly, LL routinely polls the opinion of the land barons who contribute to 80% of LL's direct income. Those are the people that matter "
I'd argue they poll Anshe Chung.. and that's about it. Keep in mind I *DO* rent from her estate :)
"but these are the ones who volunteer their time to test them out and discuss them with LL. Their experience in dealing with LL is quite different from yours or mine "
I know these people... And the one I know best sure tells me he doesn't feel listened to.
@Gwyneth Llewelyn "So this is where things start to become complicated for LL. You claim that they never listen to residents, because you never see them implementing what you — and people who support your ideas "
All you need to do is look at the JIRA and see how many resident issues are closed, without resolution- or just out-right ignored. Including those put in by people LL respects, like Vex Streeter who co-wrote "Scripting your world" for LL.
"But LL *knows* that the remaining 99% of their users are happy and silent."
Silent yes, happy..... not so much. I can't remember the last time I talked to someone in SL with any experience who was "yes, i love SL and they are just awesome and so responsive". Are there some people happy? Sure... 99% not a chance. And when the disenters give up.. close their shops.. leave all together... LL needs to count them the most.
@Gwyneth Llewelyn Let me know when you find a post with someone saying "Remove benefits for non-profits". it's your claim- you find the evidence to back it up. That's not my job. Perhaps you can't find it because those conversations don't exist.. and if they do it's a suggestion made by a single person and a thread full of "bad idea".
Let not forget the original claim- tghe problem with LL was it listened to residents too much. That's what you said. I argue they never listen to the residents,if they did- they wouldn't do what they are doing.
I have yet to see any evidence that any of the changes you claim were made in reaction to resident demands were, in fact, being demanded. Show me the JIRA that talks about the "get rid of last names" request with hundreds of comments. Show me the forum posts that are pages long demanding LL get rid of non-profit and educator discounts. They don't exist. Linden lab did what they wanted- that an extreme minority agreed with the actions, does not mean
that's why LL did it.
Do you REALLY belive your statement that LL does things because of resident demands?
LL cut discounts cause they wanted more money and they no longer cared about the sector- they wanted corporations. There are no identified documented conversations supporting such a position I have seen.
LL got rid of last names because the new systems they are building are designed to work with single user names. That is why they can't change back. all the new gamification projects expect a single user ID. I've seen a request for "gamification" that an overwhelming majority disagreed with. I see thigns asking for "display names" I've seen NOTHING asking for the removal of last names by users.
Linden Labs does NOT react to resident needs, they only couch everything they do to make it look like they have.
@Gwyneth Llewelyn Let me know when you can find someone clamouring for the removal of surnames- I'll be waiting, but not holding my breath.
I never said the idea of a 'display name' was bad.... poorly executed, yes. I still ask for any proof that anyone said "SL should remove surnames." Despite LL's attempt to link the two changes, they really are unrelated and just executed at the same time.
So, I looked at nwn's post you referenced... Seems the consensus was "no, bad idea"... so, while someone DID ask for it- it was never the opinion of the majority of residents. Thanks for the pointer to the one guy who thought it was a good idea though, I stand corrected.
The HUD idea for acchivements - ok, I got that.. no big deal- welcome to Octoberville, or Tiny Empires. It's not a new idea. But Sl doesn't need to do that. Facebook, which Rodvick loves so much, provides none of that. it's all based on integrated applications. OTHER companies systems that use the facebook platform. i like Tiny Empires. I like Octoberville. I like games in world. None of that exists without the platform being supported- and Rodvick doesn't care about that- he wants to write the games that live on the platform.
No Facebook community = no facebook games. That's why companies have been backing out of G+- not enough users. Rodvic is losing, and failing to recruit new, users. Specifically because he's lost sight of the platform and *ONLY* cares about gamification.
@Gwyneth Llewelyn I am not sure who you were replying to, but it wasn't my statement.
I never said anything about a niche market and not being able to survive. I agree there can be very successful companies in a niche market (look at nEo Streams). Good thing I never said different. I hope you figure out who you were replying to.
What I said:
"...the future of Second Life will soon be almost completely in the hands of it's users." But it's not, since we never will really be in control of SL- as they won't let us moderate the system ourselves. They control all the technology... and they determine they are going to rolling restart our sims in the middle of events and "screw you" if you don't like it.. If you retain control, you must continue to invest. They are doing one and not the other. As a result, stagnation. But it's even worse than that, they are making decision after decision that goes against the community and users.
If Second Life continues it's service the same way as it has been under Rodvic, someone will come along and invest in something else, and leave SL behind. Just like Facebook did to MySpace. And much like MySpace, they will deserve it.
What I read this as "We are now the MySpace of MMC (Massive Mutliplayer Community) wait for our version of Facebook to show up and make us completely irrelevant"
Let's hope someone with the skill and funding comes along to do just that. Or better yet, someone who can still innovate comes along and buys the platform from them. personally, I wonder what it would cost to buy it from them.
It sucks to be right
Hamlet Au had a few things to say about BK's legacy. The way he say it, "Bob Komin has helped prepare Linden Lab for a post-Second Life era, in which SL is less and less central to the company's strategy and plans." He had helped create the "very large" cash reserve to finance projects, such as games. "much of Linden Lab's management … likely see Second Life as a legacy MMO which has run its course. With the launch of new development tools, followed soon by a steady withdrawal of company resources, the future of Second Life will soon be almost completely in the hands of it's users."
@Gwyneth Llewelyn or the businesses are leaving because of IP theft and people are buying from the remaining businesses.
Or fewer people want land because their new "linden home" is good enough.
You can't apply RL models to SL business. It's like the "cover charge" disaster going on in the live music community- where there is no scarcity of resources and distance is meaningless, You have to offer something no one else offers for free- or offer it with a compelling reason to pay.
Landmass is shrinking because people are not putting money into the virtual world when they need to spend it on real food.
@Gwyneth Llewelyn What are you talking about?
"We have had two names ... Then, around 2009, people yelled that "Second Life was the only environment where such a stupid idea was in place!" ... Nevertheless, they can login as "kjhkjhg65765" and show their avatar name as "John Smith"."
No such thing happened. There was no one clamoring for single user names for their in-world identity. Not one person said "Get rid of last names" What people ASKED for was a single ID under which multiple "firstname lanstname" avatars could be created. Alts inside a single account. rather than each alt being a separate account. No one wanted what they created. no one asked for it. If they were taking requirements from the users, they failed to collect them correctly.
Further, In no way does the current system "show the avatar name as..." anything. the avatar name is the first and last name- anything else is just an presentation name. Databases, scripts, and other systems operate based on the fixed name. The idea *MIGHT* have worked if Linden Labs did not permit users to put stupid unicode garbage in their presentation names and they were actually type-able on a keyboard.. or readable with eyes. What might have worked, despite it being unneeded and nothing like what people wanted, was ruined by lack of forward thinking.
"late 2007 ... this time the demand was for more features and more frequent releases "
The demand has ALWAYS been for bug fixing. Are there features we want? sure, not that they pay attention to the ones we really want , but bug fixing should ALWAYS be first. Going through the JIRA and closing all the tickets did not make the bugs go away. it just meant the people who reported them gave up or quit SL and they were not re-opened.
"But the biggest and loudest group complained that people were leaving SL too quickly, and not coming in quickly enough to replace lost users, and the fault was Linden Lab because the current generation of users have short attention spans and require everything to look like a "game" and have "achievements"
This is just not true. Didn't happen. I never saw anyone asking for a "game" or "achievements" .. not once. I saw people ridicule LL for getting rid of the mentor program. I saw people ridicule LL for a new viewer that was (and continues to be) terrible. I saw ridicule of customer support, lack of mainland cleanup, rate of land abandonment, IP theft and more. Not once did I see anyone say "I need rock monsters". or "We need crystals to trade for linden."
"When Linden Lab in 2009 pushed their vision of Second Life for the enterprise, a large fraction of their residential users cried foul and demanded that Linden Lab abandoned support for corporations and focused on their residential users instead. So they did it — making educators and teachers angry that Linden Lab was interested any longer in supporting organisations"
You have taken two completely unrelated things- and tied them together. The lab started to ignore the residents in favor of "IBM world" or whatever it was. Attempts to make SL a commercial world for meetings. There were also talks of prototyping products. The community said "don't forget us" and, more importantly, the businesses tried it out and thought it didn't work- so they abandoned it. IN NO WAY did any resident ever encourage LL to remove educator, teacher and non-profit discounts or support. If you are right, and the change away from education was because of resident demands to ending commercialization- then once again, LL failed to understand the requirements.
Sadly, from your post, it looks like you fail to understand the problem.
@catfitz I just had to comment again.. You give SL too much credit. Before SecondLife there were many other systems where things like this happened. We shall never forget Captain Crunch and his blue box... or 4 digit sprint codes... or war-dialers or STS or DDIAL or PCPursuit, or Sierra Online (Which did Sim's Online stuff much better than EA did- and before them) There is always a predecessor, that's evolution.
My own little Diversi Dial with 7 300 Baud AppleCat modems in an Apple ][e was just as much a prototype for society- SL just has more concurrency, but it's not new.
@catfitz The most surprising part of your message is this...
"Even so, as I told a Linden helping me with crashing issue today..."
You got a real live LInden to actually help you with a problem? Now if you tell me they fixed it I will be completely stunned.
it's a REAL shame that for all his vision Phil has left us to this useless EA hack who couldn't define community with 3 search engines and a dictionary. "Gameification"? SL is about COMMUNITY- there are games inside- but it's about community- and the failure to leverage that community has been the failure. First with M and his push to make the grid a virtual "WebMeeting" space and now this nonsense. My hope is that SL survives Rod and the next CEO has some vision for SL that includes what made it popular in the first place- community. The same thing that makes us say "My Space? What is that?" ... and based on recent surveys, the direction Facebook is going... the companies lost sight of the community they were supposed to be serving and broke the system so badly they left room for the better solution to come along.
if Phil cared about the long term viability of SecondLife, I think he would see the abysmal failure Rod has been at moving the system forward. We don't need to hunt for crystals Rod.... we want last names.... we want identities... we want to be individuals...
I implore Phil to save what he created, and so many of us love. Get rid of Rod and take over again- or at least find a CEO that's had some experience community building.
If you want some pointers- look to the amazing work of the residents putting on a birthday party for your creation when Rod and his ilk decided they didn't care to celebrate your creation. They know about community.