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Aside from some minor points, you've articulated my thoughts, too. Well said, Martin.
9 months, 3 weeks ago on Why I Am A Feminist
@Herpert_Derpington > "What a load of useless hot air."
- Pointless assertion.
> "I hardly ever comment on anything I read on the internet but this just gets my goat."
- But I thought it was useless? If it's useless, why did it get your goat?
> "First: I also am an atheist/skeptic/liberal/whatever-else-we-people-like-to-classify-ourselvs-as-to-appear-more-astute. Not that it matters, but I would hate to be written off as... "oh he/she's just from group "X" and thus can''t be taken seriously"."
- No group is beyond criticism or being wrong.
> "I'm on YOUR side politically/socially/economically/etc, but garbage like this gives us a bad name."
- Doubtful when you point out an article calling for decency and getting rid of misogyny as wrong without saying why. Secondly, who is "us"?
> "It makes you sound snooty, anal, bitchy, and generally like a chronically offended, unfunny tightass. Yeh... I called you a name on the internet... what of it?"
- Because name-calling is the best way to convey an argument, idea and point? And calling him names doesn't tell us he's wrong: it tells us that the best counter you can muster is calling someone "snooty" for raising awareness about misogyny.
> "Secondly: Yes, rape is bad. Nobody is arguing that rape is no-big-deal.
- Actually that's the whole point. There are plenty who not only argue but consider it a given that it's "not so bad", "it's just women being hysterical", "it's men being misunderstood", its the victim-blaming, insensitivity to rape victims, etc., and rape-threats are indications that rape discussions are a problem. If this is something you need to be told about, then you should probably just not partake of this discussion. If you don't care, don't comment. But don't tell others to care about something which even you admit is bad, while trying to find ways to stop it.
> "There is, however, a huge difference between saying the word "rape" in conversation (no matter what the context or connotation), and ACTUALLY committing the act. When a rape occurs, people get hurt, as you said. That is bad. On the contrary, when the word "rape" is used, nobody except thin-skinned moral-crusaders like you get hurt."
- Where exactly has Martin said that we can't use the word rape? This just highlights to everyone that you didn't read the article. And again: name-calling is juvenile. If it's not possible to communicate your point without pretending you're in a playground, then it's probably not a point for adults.
> "(Sticks and stones can break my bones but words can never harm me.)"
-What was I saying about playground?
> "Further, it is often the case that the words most needed to be said are those which inflict the most offense. This is why (here in the US at least), our laws vigorously protect freedom of speech, and harshly punish acts of aggression, such as rape. If you were allowed to forcibly remove rape jokes from daily conversation, what would be removed next? As you can see from my post here, your blog entry has offended me. Should I be allowed to muzzle your freedom of expression as well?"
- Please quote where Martin advocates for this. You are making things up.
> "For some reason people believe they have the right not to be offended. They feel that whenever someone says something that upsets them they have the right to shut them up. Groups of every sociopolitical leaning are guilty of this in some way and it makes me sick."
- Good. I'm not sure who's doing this here, but good. There is no right to not be offended. Though you clearly are, you are not calling for Martin's silence. Neither is he calling for yours.
> "I don't like it either when people are put down with racial slurs or certain news companies spew mindless fear mongering and lies, but guess what friends; It's their right to do so and I loath the person who seeks to silence them. That said, it is also our right to present contrary opinions. This is how we promote healthy dialog in our societies and ensure everyone get's heard."
> "So to you I say... Yes, rape is bad, but if that's your ultimate point, then put your energy into fighting the real problem rather than pretending that curtailing my freedom of expression will help."
- Who said anything about curtailing freedom of expression? Please point this out. You are equating making reasonable challenges, based on argument, with silencing. People who claim they are silenced by arguments are simply people unable to defend their points. If I argue and give you evidence there is no dragon in my garage whereas you think there is, am I curtailing your freedom of speech or are you just wrong?
> "Step down off your high horse. You're making a fool of yourself."
- Yes. Martin's the one who sounds silly. You haven't showed a single point where he's wrong. You've made assertions against points no one will disagree with but it's nothing Martin wrote - unless you wish to actually pull out and point to the paragraphs.
> "In the mean time, thank you for sticking to your "openminded" values and considering my opinion as well. I would die protecting your right to write stupid garbage blog posts like this, and i'd hope you'd do the same for the comments I leave refuting them."
- No refutation happening but rather "disagreeing"… somehow. It's not entirely clear why you are, since you didn't make any points against Martin's actual post as opposed to a Strawman.
> "In conclusion... FUCK SHIT PISS NIGGER WHORE SLUT CUNT FAGGOT CRACKER ANALSEX BLONDEJOKE RRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAPPPPPPPPPPPPPPEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!" - Sorry to say this, but if this is the speech Martin has to die defending, I'd be worried about Martin's mental state at the time.
If this is an non-issue for you, what's the point of commenting? You've said it's hot air, stupid, etc., so why comment? All you do is (A) confirm why people like Martin care about this issue and (B) highlight that you're part of the problem we're discussing, and (C) derail the conversation - unless you actually learn from this interaction which would be wonderful, but doubtful. If you don't care, don't comment. You only make it worse - unless that's your goal, though I doubt that.
10 months ago on Rape Is Never Funny