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@James K @majrod @Sir Drinksalot 

Agree with your sentiments wholeheartedly, disagree with your comparison. 


The 2A is quite clear in how it pertains to gun rights.  There is no comparable amendment correlating to immigration in the constitution.


The Supreme Court has repeatedly and correctly ruled on the 2A.  The last Supreme Court ruling had the effect of telling states they cannot enforce federal law while simultaneously not sanctioning the fed gov't for not enforcing its own laws.


The 2A movement is as strong as it is because of widespread gun ownership and almost immediate personal impact on new firearms legislation.  Immigration's impact (unless you are a victim of a crime) is indirect to citizens AND there is a growing population that is rewarded with not enforcing illegal immigration.

There are more but off the top of my head some reasons why one can't compare the 2A and immigration issues directly.


Just to be clear.  I'm not against writing articles like this.  I'm just predicting the reaction so one can better prepare to address it and while writing these types of essays keep those responses in mind and maybe address them.  Sometimes just predicting the pending mischaracterization degrades its effectiveness.  It makes the left have to figure out better ways to debate than just demonizing the messenger.

12 hours, 48 minutes ago on A Green Beret’s Solution To Protecting The Southern Border

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@SEAN SPOONTS(MAFIA) @majrod 

Let's not make too much of ONE protest in Boston which isn't insignificant.  Not saying the administration's policy isn't a mistake or that the Democrats might lose the senate in the upcoming elections I still don't see that as a "sea of change".

There will still not be the majorities necessary to over ride Presidential vetoes and things have gotten worse without Congress governing.  I see nothing that will arrest the slide I've been predicting.


While we were sleeping we became a banana republic.

14 hours, 53 minutes ago on A Green Beret’s Solution To Protecting The Southern Border

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@Sir Drinksalot 

Actually the left welcomes articles like this.  They will portray it as a heartless approach and use it to further demonize anyone who promotes securing the border.   It will be used to stoke fear in those that would resist the current approach as being portrayed as heartless.


Just watch...

1 day, 5 hours ago on A Green Beret’s Solution To Protecting The Southern Border

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Great ideas Loren but without a smidgen's chance of being enacted.

 I said it's going to get a lot worse before it even has a chance of getting better...

Some people still think I was joking or am wrong.



1 day, 5 hours ago on A Green Beret’s Solution To Protecting The Southern Border

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@KineticFury 

It's a bit mopre complicated and much more productive than that.  Contrary to popular belief we'vbe actually been very effective at reinforcing democratic ideals in many latin american militaries because of our training efforts.

Venezuela, Ecuador and Bolivia are actually good examples of countries with gov'ts going to shit amd the military not intervening as they have a strong history of doing so. 


That said, we just don't train everyone haphazardly.  Mostthink the majority of our training occurs down range.  It doesn't.  My first tour at the School of the Americas had me among my duties running exercises downrange was marketing the numerous courses SOA (now WHINSEC) runs.  Since most countries that obtain US training do so with US dollars we actually specify what courses are available to them and create those course which especially since the 80's, contain more human rights and respect for democracy training than the same US courses.  Year in and year out SOA/WHINSEC has been training thousands of Latin American troops.  Almost all of their top officers have attended courses there especially the command and general staff course.  It's no coincidence that countries like Guatamala, Argentina, Chile etc. were able to stabilize their democracies especially in comparison to the turmoil of the 60's and 70's.

Today, nascent democracies like Columbia, Honduras, Guatamala and Mexico are dealing with cartels.  Whinsec's curriculum is providing training to Latin American military, police and civil employees to develop the skills they need to address their nation's threats (and ours also).    http://www.benning.army.mil/tenant/whinsec/content/PDF/New%20Format%20ENG%20For%20Editing%20WHINSEC%20Course%20Catalog%20English.pdf

1 day, 6 hours ago on “The Snakes Are Smoking” The Brazilian Expeditionary Force in WW2

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@joesig

I'm impressed.  It must take a super hero to fit so much wrong in one post.  At least I know your superpower.

First, you continue to not read.  I never said you were playing the victim.  The self appointed hall monitor tried to give you that status.

Now after the above post, self proclaimed victim status is questionable.

Being asked to read about a subject is an insult?  Wow, a lot of insulting going on in SOFREP or you have a very this skin.

Wiki is simply not a source.  Like I said, it's not even accepted in HS.  If you want to engage in an informed debate bring informed sources.  You can choose here.  Be intellectually honest enough to accept that wiki doesn't cut it, admit you're too lazy to find real sources or that you are just offering a potentially very ill informed personal opinion.  Don't get angry at others that the standard here is above grade school.  It's like someone angry at SEAL because BUDS is hard.

Platoons do not know what's happening in the Battalion TOC or in the Battalion commander's head.  It's not a ding.  It's a statement of fact.  As a platoon leader with instant access to the command net I wasn't able to follow how second by second decisions were made at BN two levels above.  Being offended demonstrates an over confidence in one's knowledge or just plain unfamiliarity with military organizations. 

About insults, go take a read back at your real insults ranging from insulting my service. ALL junior officers (look up LT Bogstromm who was killed trying to resupply an OP at Camp Keating and re-eval your comment), ALL conventional units etc.  I simply have too much respect for enlisted men, real NCOs and SOF to even think the things you verbalize.  The fact you are in SOF is highly disturbing and doesn't represent the behavior of the consummate professionals I've worked with or honored to call friends.

Your background frankly is irrelevant (as is mine) unless you happened to be in the Vincennes CIC at the time.   We are discussing an event neither of us were at and bringing to bear reputable references (at least one of us) to come to some conclusion.


There has been no political discussion here.  You bringing it up shows your personal demons and bias.  It just like the personal attacks serve as obfuscation to cover a weak case.

BTW, if others attack your argument it isn't my doing.  Bring a better argument to the table.  Finally, considering the kumbaya moments you've displayed here in this thread you should be the last to bring up personality cults.  It's tough to hear you over the hypocrisy.

When you want to get back on topic pop a star cluster.  You got pretty quiet when I explained why 16% for doing nothing is a good deal especially when freely agreed upon.

3 days, 5 hours ago on A Look In The Mirror At Iran Air Flight 655 Shot Down By The USS Vincennes In 1988

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@DeanGuyer @majrod 

Agree on all your points about what impacts recruiting but that impacts every specialty not just the Infantry.  We've addressed many of those issues with various incentives to draw those that qualify.  We also have higher standards than ever.  HS diplomas weren't a requirement for the overwhelming majority of the last century.  

I don't think Infantry are more "scarce" now than they have been.  All the studies I've seen (and I've seen quite a few doing the analytical studies stuff at the end of my career) cite about a 10-15 to one ratio of supporters to supported.  That goes back to WWII studies.  The ratio hasn't changed much and in fact has dropped in the latest studies to something like 8-12 to one.  (As an aside where we've gotten FAT in is stars and their supporting staffs but those numbers are a drop in the bucket in the grand scheme of things.  Not to say it's unimportant.  Their impact on the overall running of things has been ponderous.) The economy doesn't have much if any an impact on Infantry formations.  The proportions stay the same.  Infantry organization haven't changed since before Vietnam.

Gen Bolger's book, Death Ground: Today's American Infantry in Battle http://www.amazon.com/Death-Ground-Todays-American-Infantry/dp/089141830X is chock full of interesting facts and trivia.  It's a bit dated (I eventually would like to write an updated version) but the stats haven't changed much.  Maybe we just have a different appreciation of the word scarce?

Infantry, one of the largest Army branches while not plentiful, aren't scarce in my estimation. There's about 100k Infantrymen serving including Marine 0311's. That's about 10% of the force and Infantry are by no means the only ones at the pointy end of things though they do tend to carry a load much greater than their numbers.

3 days, 16 hours ago on The Decline of American Warmaking Part 1: Technology vs Training

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@Kiyabear @majrod @LawyerHandle 

You should know I never give credit unless it's deserved.  I don't believe in trophies for participating.  Reread what you wrote.  I'll post it here so you don't forget.

"Joesig, I say this with only the best intentions and concern, but it possible that this exchange has reached an unproductive point.  I say this to you rather than the other party because you have shown that you 'hear', carefully weigh what you've heard and respond accordingly.  I'm saying this because when it reaches the point of playing the 'whose service is better', then it becomes (excuse my language), a pissing contest instead of a discussion.  I know that you did NOT throw the first 'service' card, so it is a bit unfair of me to lay the burden on you.  But I think you'll understand when I say that this has become about who is right rather than what is right.


There comes a time to stop beating one's head against the wall because the wall doesn't feel it. Please feel free to ignore my thoughts :)  I'll take no offense at it."

You didn't only not tell him to stop questioning my service, (something BTW he did first contrary to your astute memory and a comment  that I did not lower myself to respond to e.g. "You sound like every weak junior officer I've ever met: disdainful of the troops and convinced you should be a general.")  you then went on to imply I was close minded, a wall and that HE (LMAO) was the victim. 

(Gosh, bleeding hearts so love the victim they have to make it up).


LOL, so you hardly deserve a thank you.


Your faulty memory and your sly insults are both unwelcome as your blatant efforts to mischaracterize the exchange.  You are welcome to insert them in both your ends.

4 days ago on A Look In The Mirror At Iran Air Flight 655 Shot Down By The USS Vincennes In 1988

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@LawyerHandle The hypocrisy of condemning others for alleged poor behavior but pledging to ride to someone's defense if they are ganged up for the same poor behavior is too rich to ignore.

It's up there with accusing others of being entrenched in their position.

The hypocrisy is off the meter as well as the one sidedness they accuse other of.

I'm sure rapists love to have friends like that...


4 days, 3 hours ago on A Look In The Mirror At Iran Air Flight 655 Shot Down By The USS Vincennes In 1988

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@JohnChristopher1 

He doesn't just say "obliged".  He states in our "national interest".

I don't disagree spreading democracy for democracy's sake is a check we can't cash but that IS the defining characteristic of neoconservatism.

4 days, 5 hours ago on Action, Inaction, and Consequences For the Future of American Foreign Policy

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@JohnChristopher1 

I'm pretty "acquainted".  Here it is in his exact words without interpretation.

"... the United States will always feel obliged to defend, if possible, a democratic nation under attack from nondemocratic forces, external or internal. That is why it was in our national interest to come to the defense of France and Britain in World War II. That is why we feel it necessary to defend Israel today, when its survival is threatened. No complicated geopolitical calculations of national interest are necessary." 

and later he says...

"The "magic" of compound interest over half a century had its effect on our military budget, as did the cumulative scientific and technological research of our armed forces. With power come responsibilities, whether sought or not, whether welcome or not. And it is a fact that if you have the kind of power we now have, either you will find opportunities to use it, or the world will discover them for you."  - Irving Kristol


As I said I reject a US obligation to defend other democracies.  We didn't defend Britain (and the Soviet Union BTW which wasn't a democracy) because it was a democracy but because of the threat Nazism posed.  IF as Kristol says we defended Britain because of Democracy we would have entered the war way before 10 December '41.  As for Israel, we comparatively do little.  Heck, we'd end the Palestinian threat by stop sending them money.  I also reject using military power just because we have such an abundance of it...


Like I said, I'm pretty acquainted.

4 days, 7 hours ago on Action, Inaction, and Consequences For the Future of American Foreign Policy

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You're on to something Pete.


BTW, I think one of the key factors that have been a detriment to leadership is e-mail.  So many leaders use it to tell subordinates difficult things so they don't have to do it face to face or deal with the reasons the latest good idea isn't such a good one.


A decade ago my boss asked why I was out of my office so much doing face to face coordination.  I told him when one is asking for something it's harder for people to tell you "no" to your face and a lot of times I learned why "good ideas" weren't always so good.  I also pointed to my higher record of success vs. peers.

Another thing about technology is that Americans are enamored with it.  We are spoiled to a certain point but on top of that we have created so many new inventions that have changed the world that we think inventing is always the answer.  Our ancestors valued rugged individualism.  Today that's translated into achieving a new level on Xbox.


When you touch on casualty aversion which I believe is now a strategic weakness that disproportionately impacts everything from the weight our next Infantry carrying vehicle (60T+) to whether preserving anything we achieved in the world is worth putting "boots on the ground"; I hope you touch on how politicians and generals have lost the courage to tell America wars are dirty, unpredictable and bloody affairs.

4 days, 7 hours ago on The Decline of American Warmaking Part 1: Technology vs Training

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@JohnChristopher1 

"It's a network people with similar intellectual outlooks, who never had a single approach about anything, let alone doctrinaire foreign policy."

No, there has to be a common approach or doctrine or one could call everyone a neocon.  And no, it's not that American values won't thrive in a world that is hostile to it.  One could then lump realists, nationalists, foreign policy liberals and idealists in the neocon camp.  

Neoconservative thought centers around the concept that it is our responsibility to further and protect democracy using all but most often, military power.  The belief that we should make Iraq democratic and it would spread throughout the middle east is neoconservative.  So is the thought process that said we should help Iranian protestors change the regime to democracy (that's neocon) vs. we should help because it's in the nation's interest to undermine a threat to our interests (which is a realist's POV).

Of course you are going to have a divided response to Egypt.  You're going to have division on ANY issue.  Not everyone is a neocon.

4 days, 8 hours ago on Action, Inaction, and Consequences For the Future of American Foreign Policy

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@Sir Drinksalot @majrod @BrandonWebb @JohnChristopher1 

Violating a treaty is a heck of a lot better than losing one's nation.  I would not blame the poles or the Baltic states to question if the US is willing to lose DC or NYC over Poland.  

This is a lesson Ukraine teaches them.  There was an agreement to respect Ukraine sovereignty in exchange for their nukes... 


These are the costs of lost credibility.  Watch the Middle East engage in a nuke race after Iran sets off their first one.

5 days, 3 hours ago on A Look In The Mirror At Iran Air Flight 655 Shot Down By The USS Vincennes In 1988

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@JHR @majrod 

The last time the Germans knew how to handle the Russians Poland got partitioned.

5 days, 4 hours ago on A Look In The Mirror At Iran Air Flight 655 Shot Down By The USS Vincennes In 1988

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@Allwet @Sir Drinksalot @joesig 

You should weigh in more often.  

Very well said...

5 days, 4 hours ago on A Look In The Mirror At Iran Air Flight 655 Shot Down By The USS Vincennes In 1988

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@Sir Drinksalot @majrod 

While on an idealistic level I like the idea of a world's policeman it's totally unrealistic. 

My metaphor wasn't a plea for a policeman but an explanation why acting like one is in one's own interest sometimes.

We both agree on the futility of isolationism I think.

5 days, 4 hours ago on A Look In The Mirror At Iran Air Flight 655 Shot Down By The USS Vincennes In 1988

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@joesig @YankeePapa @majrod 

"... think about the juxtoposition of "received small arms fire" and "observed from high altitude". 

Yeah, it's ok if the enemy shoots at you from a distance.


Obviously, you've never been shot at.



5 days, 5 hours ago on A Look In The Mirror At Iran Air Flight 655 Shot Down By The USS Vincennes In 1988

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@LawyerHandle 

Yep, notice the eery similarity of not wanting to call terrorism, terrorism...

5 days, 5 hours ago on A Look In The Mirror At Iran Air Flight 655 Shot Down By The USS Vincennes In 1988

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@LawyerHandle Yeah, that's just like what we did with Fl 655.


(That's sarcasm folks)

5 days, 5 hours ago on A Look In The Mirror At Iran Air Flight 655 Shot Down By The USS Vincennes In 1988

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@JHR The same Germans who have not met their promised 2% of GDP towards defense in the last decade?


Yeah, good luck.


Thanks for the insight from on DC.  I think they can see it in Moscow.

5 days, 5 hours ago on A Look In The Mirror At Iran Air Flight 655 Shot Down By The USS Vincennes In 1988

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@JohnChristopher1 

The fundamental and defining aspect of neoconservatism is the defense/spreading of democracy as a US responsibility. 


Redefining neoconservatism or even speaking of it without including that fundamental factor plays into the left's strategy of defining ANYONE that mentions intervention at any point as a neoconservative.  

This is the opposite of what modern day isolationists try to do by saying they are non-interventionists and not isolationists.  They do this because isolationist philosophy as practiced in the US was demonstrated to be an abject failure as the 100+ million dead of WWII conclusively demonstrated.  Modern day isolationists want to avoid being connected with US pre WWII isolationists even though they practice the exact same reasoning.


Many who try to categorize neocons as anyone promoting an intervention as tied to the Iraq decision even if the protection/expansion of democracy is nowhere included in their reasoning.


It's for that reason many of the names you cited may not be neocons.  Unless you know each of those individuals defended our actions on the grounds of spreading democracy., you are demonstrating how effective and insidious the creep of changing the meaning of words can be.

5 days, 6 hours ago on Action, Inaction, and Consequences For the Future of American Foreign Policy

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@joesig @majrod @LawyerHandle 

If a company comes onto your property and:

Bears the costs to explore and find a resource...

After finding that resource creates the roads, imports the vehicles and equipment to extract and transport the resource... 

Builds the refineries, pipelines and port facilities to process and move the resource...

Brings all the expertise to extract and bring that resource to market and pays the salaries for any local employees

and in the end the company pays you 16% for sitting around and watching it's not a bad deal.

If it were you'd likely not sign the contract in the first place and do the development on your own.  BTW, that contract has a finite date of expiration after which one could renegotiate.

These concepts are basic to societies that value rule of law and capitalism.  Of course this can all be circumvented if one becomes a socialist and claims one is being stolen from.  You just turn around and steal the infrastructure, facilities, equipment etc. that someone else invested into you and use the knowledge one learned in their employ while claiming to be a victim.

 

FWIW, the last time I checked oil companies make about a dime on a gallon of gas... 

Yes, the beauty and justice of socialism where for some "16%" justifies one to take everything from another.

5 days, 7 hours ago on A Look In The Mirror At Iran Air Flight 655 Shot Down By The USS Vincennes In 1988

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@joesig @majrod @YankeePapa 

"Motorcycle, school bus, F14, A300: who the hell can tell the difference?"

You must have been one heck of an intel analyst.


5 days, 11 hours ago on A Look In The Mirror At Iran Air Flight 655 Shot Down By The USS Vincennes In 1988

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@joesig @majrod @LawyerHandle 

FYI one can be a nationalist and a communist.  Ever heard of Mao or Castro?

I have read up on Mossadegh.  You continue to ignoredhis connection to the assassination of his predecessor, nationalizing/stealing companies without compensation (a defining action of socialists/communists), ruling by decree/emergency rule and made voters publicly cite who they voted for (yeah, "I dare you to vote for someone else") 

Of course there are no more Soviet puppets but they were a huge concern during the cold war.  Heard of Cuba?

I didn't rattle you?  LOL, your responses are written as if you were in the middle of a 8.0 earthquake.  The personal insults just show you and your opinion for what it is. This isn't about rank and your devolving to it shows how poor your case is,  it's about logic and presenting one's case with evidence.  Things you've utterly failed to do here.  Heck, Wiki isn't even a source accepted in high school.

 

5 days, 11 hours ago on A Look In The Mirror At Iran Air Flight 655 Shot Down By The USS Vincennes In 1988

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@joesig @LawyerHandle 

Iraq is a mess and the islamists were able to grow in power in Syria because we left Iraq too early.  The current crapfest is a product for not leaving a residual force.  To focus on our initial invasion exclusively is intellectually dishonest.

I agree with you that we can't control what happens in Ukraine, Iraq, Syria or even domestically.in some things.  That doesn't mean one doesn't try to influence.  Do you stop trying to influence your kids because you can't control them?  

Mossadegh was an Iranian choice?  Saddam was also popularly "elected".  You still haven't read up on Mossadegh.  An election where the voters don't have the protection of anonymity isn't a free election.  It's often how dictators get over 90% majorities.  It's not "right" to influence an election but the Soviet sponsored communists supporting Mossadegh weren't doing the right thing either.  I guess we should just have lived with the results and a potential Soviet puppet on the gulf.  It wouldn't have had any impact on history. 

Brilliant!  Ignorance IS bliss.

5 days, 13 hours ago on A Look In The Mirror At Iran Air Flight 655 Shot Down By The USS Vincennes In 1988

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@joesig @majrod @YankeePapa 

I am not defending the FL 655 shoot down.  I'm highlighting all the differences between it and Malaysian Airlines FL17.  It is not a valid comparison except at the most surface levels.  

It in no way as Brandon implied minimizes our moral standing or what we should do in response to the latest tragedy.

Thank you for your service.  I doubt those serving at the platoon level can definitively determine what happened at the battalion TOC unless they were there also.  Where you in the CIC?  Considering your reliance on wiki it doesn't seem your knowledge is as first hand as you'd like to believe (talk about thinking one is smarter than one actually is).

I am tenacious but I don't think you'd want me as a commander after engaging a school bus.  I've recommended court martials for far less. 

5 days, 14 hours ago on A Look In The Mirror At Iran Air Flight 655 Shot Down By The USS Vincennes In 1988

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@BrandonWebb @majrod 

Contrary to popular belief we are still an incredibly strong country.  We've dealt with multiple issues and regions before.  It's not so much that it's hard that it requires vision and leadership.

While we were rebuilding our conventional, nuclear and special ops capabilities in the 80's we also dealt with with multiple threats in Europe, South and Central America, the Carribean and the middle east.  We also addressed a sad economic state as well as put a band aid on immigration.  

We can fix many of the issues facing us today.  REALLY secure the border then talk immigration reform, take the governor off of domestic oil and natural gas production addressing our economy and Russia's income stream at the same time, revisit our ABM policy in eastern Europe and move the brigade in Germany to Poland.

I could go on and am always at your service for a radio stint but we need a heck of an agenda or maybe several radio appearances :)  

There are a lot of issues out there.  I haven't even touched the middle east or Asia!

6 days, 8 hours ago on A Look In The Mirror At Iran Air Flight 655 Shot Down By The USS Vincennes In 1988

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Eric - loved your essay.  It's a good description of the "lay or the land" as well as the pros and cons of taking too much action or too little.  

I differ in two areas.

First I would not pit the domestic discussion between neocons and realists.  It's much more complicated than that and the term neocon has been so overused that it's a pejorative rather than a true description of those that promote interventionism.  Neocons promote interventionsim in the mistaken belief that it is the US' responsibility to spread and defend democracy all over the world (a philosophy I personally reject).  One can promote intervention in parts of the world selectively for other reasons.


The same can be said for non intervention.  There are those that promote nonintervention  for reasons realists would never embrace e.g. libertarian thought.

The second area I differ with you is our treatment of allies.  Those most threatened by Russia are very interested in our help while those at a distance are happy to engage in the age old European approach of tossing other nations to the bear until it's your turn.  Frankly I believe the US should value Poland a bit more than Germany and France who aren't pulling their weight when it comes to military spending in NATO getting a free ride for US security.  Granted, both Germany and France are stronger but maybe we should weigh into helping the new Europe match the old in influence vs. letting France and Germany return to the age old European approach to playing powers off of each other that resulted in two world wars.

Look forward to reading more of your input.  I just hope you don't fall into the same old ruts most foreign policy thinkers fall into.

6 days, 9 hours ago on Action, Inaction, and Consequences For the Future of American Foreign Policy

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@joesig @majrod @YankeePapa 

The initial article brought up FL 655 and our moral position to comment on FL 17.  I've been busy highlighting the numerous differences.  I didn't say what you did or didn't say about the comparison.  I return to the initial assumption because that's what my primary point was/is.  Feeling guilty?

I'm never defended the FL 655 shoot down.  It'd be stupid to think I am.  I explained context, something missing from the original essay.  My position is there is very little in common with the Ukraine shoot down nor does it erode our moral standing.


FL 655 wasn't a criminally negligent mistake.  These things happen during conflict.  When Iran initiated hostilities and had almost a dozen boats in the water one could expect the commander of a US warship to go into a combat mode.  Like Will Smith's character said in Men in Black, "Don't start nuthin', won't be nuthin'".  The loss of Iranian lives is regrettable but raising this to criminally negligent is like blaming the Israelis for defending themselves in Gaza.  Something many are trying to do.

If the official investigation (which you obviously haven't read) agreed with you the Captain would have been court martialed instead of relieved. Remember, you said "criminally negligent"?


Sleep well, hope a clear head will help.

6 days, 10 hours ago on A Look In The Mirror At Iran Air Flight 655 Shot Down By The USS Vincennes In 1988

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@joesig @majrod 

Satire?  That's what I thought you were doing when you pointed out Mossadegh was an Iranian.

 

Actually quite a few people believe Iraq is better off without Saddam.  Few respected individuals except for those on the hard left will stake their reputation to stating the world would be better off with Saddam.


One could easily make the case for a nuclear arms race if not worse or what Iraqi aid to AQ could have led to.  It just takes some critical independent thought.

We have the current situation in Syria, Iraq and Ukraine because we as a nation didn't weigh in when we should have and it's going to get worse while the ostrich horde assures us it's none of our business.

Contrary to your implication, I care quite a bit about American blood and treasure even more so than loyalty to a political party than my oath to the constitution and defending it...


There was a period of 25 years between Mossadegh's fall and the Ayotollah's rise.  A lot happened in that period that contributed to the Shah's fall.  You're s t r e t c h i n g the definition of the term "blowback" (as you have with most of your argument).  It's like blaming Carter for 911.  Google that term after you read about Mossadegh.

6 days, 10 hours ago on A Look In The Mirror At Iran Air Flight 655 Shot Down By The USS Vincennes In 1988

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@joesig @majrod @YankeePapa 

My logic is infallible.  I'm not making the case that the Vincennes and Ukraine shoot down are similar.  That logic is questionable beyond stating an airliner was shot down.  Those that engage in it should be questioned and made to justify it.  You aren't doing a good job.

The Vincennes crew thought the airliner was an F14 (dumb mistake) but even if it wasn't it could have been another plane or even a suicide attack.  Again, educate yourself and read the official investigation I've linked.  Intel reports identified the potential of Iranian aircraft suicide attacks.  

6 days, 11 hours ago on A Look In The Mirror At Iran Air Flight 655 Shot Down By The USS Vincennes In 1988

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@KESStrong @majrod 

off the top of my head...

WWI

WWII

Greek Civil War 

France leaving NATO

Suez crisis

Munich

Bosnia

Libya

Ukraine inaction up to the current point in time


(three is a trend for most folks)

6 days, 11 hours ago on A Look In The Mirror At Iran Air Flight 655 Shot Down By The USS Vincennes In 1988

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@KESStrong @majrod 

I'm not picking on the Obama administration.  You brought up the current slow appointments.  Did you not like the documented "quality" of these nominees?  Was I supposed to not point that out?

Please feel free to identify the capable state department nominees that haven't been approved.  It would be an opportunity to expose the specific reasons they aren't being approved.

6 days, 11 hours ago on A Look In The Mirror At Iran Air Flight 655 Shot Down By The USS Vincennes In 1988

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@joesig @majrod @YankeePapa 

YP addressed the civilian emergency freq.


How do you know the Iranian airliner did not hear the Vincennes?  The "it could have been any aircraft" excuse doesn't work after pointing out the Vincennes announced course and location?

I never said the Vincennes was in international waters.  It was pursuing Iranian gunboats that engaged its aircraft in international waters. Nor did I say anything about whose airspace the planes were in.  It's getting easier to see how you believe incomplete info.


You can ascend and simultaneously approach a point on the ground/water.  It happens when you aren't going "up" as quickly as you are approaching a point on the ground. Stand on a runway as an airplane takes off.  You'll see it gets bigger even as the wheels come off the runway before the jet wash blows you away like a leaf. It's simple geometry. 

6 days, 11 hours ago on A Look In The Mirror At Iran Air Flight 655 Shot Down By The USS Vincennes In 1988

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@KESStrong @majrod 

Maybe but considering the last couple approved by the Senate couldn't spell the country's name they were going to doesn't speak to their quality but heck such ignorance couldn't hurt more than it already has can it?


"The nominee for ambassador to Norway, for example, prompted outrage in Oslo by characterizing one of the nation’s ruling parties as extremist. A soap- opera producer slated for Hungary appeared to have little knowledge of the country she would be living in. A prominent Obama bundler nominated to be ambassador to Argentina acknowledged that he had never set foot in the country and isn’t fluent in Spanish."  http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/obama-ambassador-nominees-prompt-an-uproar-with-bungled-answers-lack-of-ties/2014/02/14/20fb0fe4-94b2-11e3-83b9-1f024193bb84_story.html


Maybe there's a reason the Senate isn't approving more?


There could be a lesson there...

6 days, 13 hours ago on A Look In The Mirror At Iran Air Flight 655 Shot Down By The USS Vincennes In 1988

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@joesig @majrod 

Being an Iranian leader isn't an automatic good.  The Ayatollah was also an Iranian.

 

You obviously didn't read up on Mosaddegh, his policies, beliefs, allies and direction.

There is no evidence that Mossadegh would have been better.  It's as silly as those that say Saddam would be better than what is in Iraq today.  They conveniently forget Saddam's history of aggression/source of instability, would not have stood by as Iran developed nukes and not assisted AQ against a common enemy.  It's like all of a sudden he would have become Gandhi.

Counterfactuals can be useful in analyzing foreign policy but only if they are presented objectively and comprehensively.  Even that has limits as one can only foresee so many interacting incidents in an alternative future.   You can't do it at all if you don't educate yourself about a situation.

 

6 days, 13 hours ago on A Look In The Mirror At Iran Air Flight 655 Shot Down By The USS Vincennes In 1988

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@KESStrong @majrod 

We are withdrawing from the world, ask our allies and look at the last five years.

Withdrawal is not limited to recent military deployments.  Look at our foreign policy.

I agree we can't be everywhere militarily but we should be everywhere diplomatically and exercising appropriate American power.  Sitting back and letting the Europeans handle it isn't wise and can't be described as anything but withdrawal.

6 days, 13 hours ago on A Look In The Mirror At Iran Air Flight 655 Shot Down By The USS Vincennes In 1988

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@joesig @YankeePapa @majrod 

I provided the "Formal Investigation into the Circumstances Surrounding the Downing of Iran Air Flight 655 on 3 July 1988"official investigation file above.  Here it is again:  http://www.dod.mil/pubs/foi/International_security_affairs/other/172.pdf


The specific wording was, "Unidentified Iranian aircraft on course  203, speed 303, altitude 4000, this is U.S. Naval warship, bearing 205, 40 miles from you. You are approaching U.S. Naval warship operating in international waters. Request you state. your intentions." (IO Exhibit 203). 

That's hardly "any aircraft".  Nor is the situation in the gulf with a US ship being fired upon and responding top an attack the equivalent to what happened in the Ukraine.

The Iranian P3 Orion at over 60 miles away was challenged in a similar fashion and responded.

No one is forcing you to defend the Iranians with incomplete information. 

 

6 days, 13 hours ago on A Look In The Mirror At Iran Air Flight 655 Shot Down By The USS Vincennes In 1988

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@joesig @majrod 

I'd raise the Iranian one word response with two.  American Embassy or Imad Mughniyeh. (I wrote a whole article for SOFREP on that second "hero".  Check out his "exploits")    http://sofrep.com/20512/imad-mughniyeh/

 

If you want to insist on one word google Mosaddegh.

The guy who gave the murderer of the previous PM a pardon and who also happened to be supported by the same party that put Mosaddegh in power.  Strange coincidence huh?


Then research Mosaddegh's rule especially confiscating private property, ruling by emergency decree and his relationship with the Tudeh party (Iranian communists supported by the Soviet Union).

Finally take a look at his last democratic election where he received over 90% of the vote after eliminating anonymous voting.  Saddam would have been proud. 


I'm not excusing the US/UK intelligence operation that overthrew him but I am putting it in some much needed context often ignored by the blame America first crowd or those who don't know the whole story, often the same crowd.


BTW, I never said the Iranians were being punished for Iraq.  I was providing context to combat so as to understand the commander's mindset.  If you didn't know you behave differently based on experience.  It's why my unit wasn't keen on allowing Iraqis to flee after driving into Khafji with the main gun of their tanks over the rear deck symbolizing surrender and they turning the guns on the Saudis defending the town.



6 days, 14 hours ago on A Look In The Mirror At Iran Air Flight 655 Shot Down By The USS Vincennes In 1988

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@LawyerHandle I'd like to read more.  Who was Al Jazeera around that may have made it a target?  I remember Reuters making a huge thing about two of its sources being killed filming US troops.  They forgot to mention the journalists were unmarked and in the midst of insurgents carrying RPGs and AKs who were engaging the Americans.  I wrote about it here on SOFREP as well as the MSM successful effort in criminalizing US troops.

http://sofrep.com/24991/bradley-mannings-greatest-contribution/

6 days, 15 hours ago on Amidst Successful Targeting of Hamas Tunnels, IDF Operations Seek to Cripple Hamas as Death Toll Rises

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@LauraKinCA @LawyerHandle Amazing considering al jazeera.  The comments are very disturbing.  Thanks for sharing.

6 days, 15 hours ago on Amidst Successful Targeting of Hamas Tunnels, IDF Operations Seek to Cripple Hamas as Death Toll Rises

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@Txazz Correction, the Golani has Namers but they weren't available to this unit for some undisclosed operational reason.

1 week ago on Amidst Successful Targeting of Hamas Tunnels, IDF Operations Seek to Cripple Hamas as Death Toll Rises

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The Europeans have an extremely poor record of leading and on two occasions that dawdling ignited World Wars,  Both times our attitude was it's "over there".

After WWII we said no more and kept the peace for almost half a century.

Seems doing what works is better than trying what failed at great cost, TWICE (with half a million American headstones),..


There are many facts to the Vincennes incident that should be explained so the reader can judge for him/herself how accurate the comparison is.  The Iranian airliner left a joint civilian/military airfield that had Iranian F14's previously flying attack profiles out of that airfield.  There was also an Iranian P3 to the west which would normally be providing targeting data to aircraft attacking ships.  The Vincennes was responding to it's Blackhawk helicopter being fired upon by Iranian gun boats in international waters and tried to contact the Iranian airliner 10 times before engaging.  This was a little over a year after the USS Stark was struck by two Exocet missiles fired by an Iraqi plane from a range of 22 miles.  That strike killed 37 sailors and almost sank the ship.  An inquiry was held after which recommended the Captain be court martialed.  That Captain was relieved and retired for not defending his ship.

The Iranian airliner was shot down at a range of 12 miles.   The US admitted it had shot down the airliner with 24 hours of the incident, issued letters of regret for the loss of life and paid reparations for the shoot down of the Iranian airliner.  ALL Presidents since the shoot down have refused to apologize for it,  Remember, the Iranians initiated hostilities to which the US was responding.

Now contrast Russian behavior who even after having their Buk missile launchers filmed crossing the border back into Russia have not acknowledged their role. 

Nor can the Ukraine, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, Egypt, Somalia, and Iraq be fairly characterized as diplomatic failures. It's a bit more complicated where intervening and the failure to intervene resulted in negative consequences.

The costs of the US withdrawing from the world won't be paid tomorrow but they one day will come due.  If one stands by while one's neighborhood is ravaged by crime one shouldn't be too surprised when one's family falls victim to it.

The US is not without fault. It is an imperfect country but it does have an responsibility to lead especially when it can.  If moral reasons aren't enough then there's always self interest.  To those whom much is given, much is expected... 

1 week ago on A Look In The Mirror At Iran Air Flight 655 Shot Down By The USS Vincennes In 1988

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Anyone ever notice how Israeli casualties are broken down into military and civilian casualties while Palestinian casualties aren't and hardly ever mention that they include combatanst who make up the majority?


It's a sly way of controlling the message...

1 week ago on Amidst Successful Targeting of Hamas Tunnels, IDF Operations Seek to Cripple Hamas as Death Toll Rises

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