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@MarkPA@TionicoMark, I did get yuour root point, both halves of it. Actually, in further pondering, I think the concept of USING training requirements as you suggest is pure genius. Same thing has happened in many states about driver training. I learned from my Dad, who was talking and demonstrating good driving habits since I was about twelve. HE was driving the schoolbus at fourteen, and tractors, wagon and team, long before that. Now, a Dad can't teach his own kid how to drive, that has become the purview of the state, with madatory training for all new drivers under 18. (Washington). They demanded training for drivers, now its mandated for all. Same concept.
I agree, its a hopeless battle at this stage to try and get FedGov to do and fund it. Its out of their bailiwick anyway, except pssibly as part of militia protocol. But I think that comes too late in life. Junior ROTC starts at about 16, and by then kids whould arleady be marksmen. I suppose that could be promoted at state level, maybe a few stats would go for it. But the real way to win that one is at the local level, one district at a time. It does seem, though, that such demands are bieng made at state levels, requiring so many hours of (typicaly worthless) training prior to getting your CCL, or in some wretched places, before getting your Mother May Own a Gun permit. Go ahead, we'll let you pass that as long as you start that training in midle school, make it an opt-out part of normal education. Indoor ranges with air rifles works well... the "graduation" to outdoors and powder is easy. A few hoplophobic legislators will be going apopleptic at the thought of CHILDREN actually being allowed to TOUCH those nasty things... which could only be a good thing. We'd be bereft of a few nasty congresscretins. Always a plus!!!
I know Appleseed are completely dedicated to training up as many as possible, starting as young as possible. We;ve held private shooting events at some private schools, and for Boy Scouts, FFA groups, etc.
2 months, 3 weeks ago on A Navy SEAL Sniper’s Perspective on Firearms Ownership & The NRA in America
@MarkPA@TionicoExcellent points about training..... but I think starting at high school is over-late. I volunteer as an instructor with the Appleseed Project, a nationwide organisation teaching rifle marksmanship and Revolutionary War history. We get dozens of kids ten, eleven, twelve, on our firing lines.... they behave, learn and observe safety, and quicky become better marksmen than their Dads''' I've watched several ten and eleven year olds shoot a qualifying score on the Army Qualification Test, 210+ out of 250 possible. Watching them up front with face busting grins as they are handed their Rifleman patches, then theirn Young Patriot patches, makes the hard work easy. I know one young lad at ten to quaifly. Now he is 12, and can regulary hit what he wants to hit at 200 yards with his own Ruger 10/.22, and often scores out to four hudnred yards. Early on, when he was nine, he was on the line next to his Dad, a very experienced shooter, though not accurate enough yet. A hot brass casing flew out of Dad's eject port and landed in the crook of the young chap's elbow (all were in prone position), he wearing a short sleeved tee shirt. He screamed, jumped up, I was working the line about three shooters to his left, turned and started moving toward the noise, obviosly SOMETHING going on that could be a safety issue. The kid jumped up to standing, used his trigger hand to brush the shell casing from his other arm.... all the while maintaining PERFECT downrange muzzle control. Up to that point his Dad has insisted he use a single shot bolt action, not quite certain he'd be safe enough with a semiauto. After that happened, I offered to the Dad that I could get my Ruger 10/.22 carbine lonaer from my van and let him use that. No question that kid understood safety. If a NINE YEAR OLD can be that safe in trouble, he's not too young to properly learn how to shoot.
My Dad, when he was 12, regulary carried his .22 bolt gun with him on his horse when he went to school. Lots of the boys did. Sometimes at lunch or after school they'd have unsupervised shoot-offs and contests right out back. When he was 14, the district bought a bus... and since he liveed furthest from the school, HE drove it, dropping theother kdis off at their houses on the way out, picking them up in the morning again. He carried his trusty /22 bolt gun right up front with him. Why not? The bolt open what could happen? He'd been shooting since about six or seven along with most of his brothers and sisters. Yes, his isters were all great shots, too. One brother was a sniper in WW 11, Pacific Theater. Kids should start learnign ALL about guns as early as is safely possible. Appleseed does an incredible job of doing that. I do have to admit, though, that since Appleseed is a sing-up-and-come sort of program, and costs a littie (we're all volunteer, so the ONLY costs are administrative, for targets, sometimes range fees and target backers, that sort o fthing.. none of the instructors get a dime, but we love it) the young kids who DO come are already vetted in some good ways.. parents or uncles or lder brothers care enough to bring them along, and the kdis are eager learners. I can tell dozens of encouraging stories from my few years instructing. It gives me comfort to know thousands of people a year are getting excellent basic training in safety, gun handling, and marksmanship. AND learning our history and WHY the need to restore America to its former status as a nation of riflemen is so critical.Learning what was happening in the latter half of the eighteenth century leaves little question as to WHY each right named in our Bill of Rights is there, and written the way it is. Particularly that Second Article of Ammendment. Having endured that :long train of abuses" as they did, they would have been stupid and foolish to not do all possible to assure that train would never get put together again, in part by guaranteeding the tools necessary to stop it. And yes, training was and remains key. Training i marksmanship and the history that marksmanship made possible,
@MarkPA@flybobMark, I believe you search in vain for actual records of the Founders referencing the limitation of arms from convicted felons, insane, and on the issue fo concealed carry. On the first two categories... since other rights can, and were, removed from convicted criminals, at least for a time, it seems evident that the right to arms would also be in that same category. Now one caveat: today, many "crimes" are labelled "felony" that certainly are not. Failure to pay court orderd child support, possession of st times miniscule quaintites of certain controlled substances (the laws "controlling" them being completely unconstitutional), driving a vehicle innexcess of twenty miles anhour above the posted arbitrary speed limit, and, in my own county, anyone shooting a feral nuisance cat is guilty of a felony as well. Any of these can get one incarcerated for a long time. Or, how about this: in states that refuse to acknowledge the individual right to arms, if someone is found in possession of a firearm wihtout first having procured the state's Mother May I paperwork to BUY or POSSESS a gun, that poor sap is charged with a felony, and gun felony to boot. SO... many are "convicted felons" when that label does not suit.
Aside from that, society DO have an obligation to protect itself from predators, and disarming the two-legged variey of predator is within the purview of that intent. At least until such time as the individual no longer seems to be a threat to others in the community.
As to concealed, I don't believe the founders even considered that as a category. They said "bear", meaning to carry along with one's self as one goes about doing what one doesh. Further "arms" certainly wes not, as a term,limited to firearms. Swords, dirks, daggers, all manner of edged weapons, and anything heavy enough to be lethal as well. The dread bayonet of the Britich REgular was detachable, and often kept in a scabbard at the belt. Was this "concealed"? No, it was simply ready to hand when needed. The entire thrust of that ammendment was to assure access to any sort of weapon was not to be restricted in any way. Requiring a Mother May I bit of paper from the government "giving permission" to possess, carry, lawfully use, "arms" was unthinkable, whether said weapon was large or small, carried in the hand, on the belt, or well hidden under one's clothing, Same with any requirement for informing the government (local, state, national) that one is possessed of arms, describing which ones one owns, or, as in California's case, "registering" certain ones specifically to be used with one's state-issued Mother May P papers was ludicrous. ANY person (note well, they did not even restrict this right to "citizens" or "residents" or "men" or of any certain age. The right of the PEOPLE to keep and bear.....
I do agree with a continuing campaign to incrementally improve our lot vis-a-vis restrictive laws, and our end goal must always have in view the total repeal of all of them. However, to start out stumping for that would be unwise, given we've allowed the present pass to come about. Roll those restrictions back one by one, wherever and however we can. I belive the State of Ohio is one of the best examples of this. First, possession in one's home, then the ability, permitted I must sadly say, but still.... to carry concealed on a Shall Issue basis, at first carry in a car must be unloaded, then that got changed to allow permittees to carry loaded. Inform LE whenever contacted that one is in possession, and allow LE to decide how to proceed, that got removed, no duty to inform now. Statewide preemption was enacted, making all gun laws uniform throughout the state. Cleveland fought for years, was finally shut down and forced to repeal their own city anti-gun codes I think it was about a year ago. Last session carry in places that serve alcohol was added to the list for lawful carry, though one may not drink whlist carrying in the local. Somewhere along the line, the duty to retreat was repealed. Storage requirements were done away with... over the past decade or so Ohio have come a long ways, and is one of the freest states... oh, the requirement that only certain states that bothered to negotiate reciprocity could carry in Ohio on their home permit was just signed into law, meaing anyone lawfully able to carry in their home state can now do so inOhio. LE are being trained to ask the proper questions to axcertain whether one has the legal right to carry concealed in their home state. This has been effected largely through the ocncerted and consistent work of their state firearms organisation, Buckeye Firearmns. Its been impressive to watch, and could be a great model for other states to emulate.
@Awesomeness1Thats one of the things we're trying to accomplish with the Appleseed Project... rifle marksmanship AND Revolutionary War History, all rolled up into one awesome two day event. As an instructor I've worked with kids as young as six years old... why paattention, are safe, have a ball diong it, and learn quickly. The rapidly learn how their rifle works, can clear misfeeds and misfires quickly when they happen.. AFTER waiting long enough to make sure its a misfire and not a hangfire or squib (yes, we teach what they are and how to deal with them. These young kids get it. ). If that level of marksmanship could be taucht as standard curriculum in the schools, what a difference that would make. Firearms would then be fun, safe, accurate, and we'd again have a nation of riflemen.
@SEAL76@Tionico@flybobits a pretty rare beast, but one of them can often be found at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue in Washington DC, except when he's off vacatinoing elsewhere on other people's money.
@SEAL76@flyboband Christie wants to replace the kinyun?His anti-gun and liberty record stinks, but HE doesn't get it. Proof he's part of the machine that needs to get decommissioned.
@MarkPA@flybob Suppose we got 10 more Constitutional-Carry States - converts from Shall-Issue. Suppose we got 9 more Shall-Issue States - converts from Won't Issue. Which would be the greater victory? BOTH. Why not? Shall Issue should be a given. It should be easy to get it so... but I admit it is not so. If the SCOTUS found, as it did in the late 19th Century, that a poll tax of a few bucks, payable before an individual could exercise their right to vote, to be an "infringement" (their word not mine) on the Constitutionally guaranteed right to vote, how much MORE the rogmarloe we now endure to acquire our mandated Mother May I papers? Licensing for other activities covers things that are NOT considered rights. What COMPELLING FedGov interest underlies those Mother May I permits? NONE. The Constitutioin carefully and explicitly says to ALL government HANDS OFF, that right is sacred, and cannot be taken away.
Now, as to violent criminals, the mentally insane.... when one perpetrates violent crime, olenty of other "rights" and "liberties" are removed from that one.. the right to freely associate, to vote, to hold public office.... to freely move about as he pleases, and, often, the right to continue to possess all his money. The right to arms is also removed, and upon the same moral basis. It is considered that government have the obligation to remove these rights, as forfeit by the criminal, as part of the exercise of the DUTY of civil government to "bear the sword" against those who do harm to others.
As to requiuring the NRA to certify or set standards for training... bad idea. They do provide a great service, but their training is far from the best. To elevate that organisation to a point of being supported by laws mandating the use of their services is to do them a disservice.. because now they will be beholden to that government mandating their services. Further, you remove the equation from the free market. It bothers me greatl that the NRA have injected themselves into the position of mandated membership in the organisation as a continuing condition of membership in most all private ranges. They already are far short of the performance I expect of them. HOW is it they rated the Harry Reid from Nevada so highly, and failed to support good csndidates in other races that were important? Their rating of late is deplorable. Don't favour mediocre performance by subsidising it, requiring their services as a condition of our exercising our right to arms Let NRA EARN their preeminance again by serving not only their members but the nation as a whole far more powerfully than they do not.
@MarkPAANY move of Congress to fund anything like you suggest is NOT acceptible. First, FedGov have NO authority for such things. I'd strongly support a move by the military to "dispose" of arms no longer needed because the illegal standing army we have is being dismantled. Those weapons can go to states, or, through the CMP, to schools at little or no cost, along with MilSurp ammo, to be used for training purposes for the students. Of course, when the militia really MEANT something, all males from about 16 or so were part of it... training, marksmanship, drill, survival, all that stuff is what the militia tranied for. ALL laws at FedGov level relating to "education" in any way are illegal. FedGov have NO authority there, either.
If we're going to go get all COnstitutioinal,. lets GET Constitutional. Until we actually put that document to work for about fifry years, any claims its no good or doesn't work are naught but hot air.
Now, nothing says serious traning in tactics, military history, weapons and the handling of them (IINCLUDING lots of live fire) can't be part of any state or local area's curriculum. But leave FedGov OUT of it. Wouldjya put the foxes in charge of training and equippng the chickens in the chickenhouse? Of course not. They've a vested interest in keeping them critters well subdued. And trained THEIR way.
I'd oppose an exclusive status for NRA in the training department. Many other systems are in place, and are at least as effecitve. Appleseed is unequalled in rifle marksmanship training, and is by far the cheapest out there.. $40 for a weekend of the best live fire training anywhere. Front Sight, OFA, and many others are equall valid. To exclude all the other valid and accessible means of training from even shooting on a gun range is wrong. NRA are great, but far from the best, or only. Let each range det their own standards... and I know of many who wholeheartedly support and recognise Appleseed. If NRA want to maintain "density" in the training business, fine.. let them earn it by supplying better and more affordable training. SO far, their prodiucts have not convinced me to vote with MY wallet. Relinquish their exclusive hold on "mandatory training" and go back to EARNING it with superior products at better prices. Let the Free Market validate their training.
issues here arethe result of New Jersey's corrupt government and a
population who have gone to sleep and ALLOWED their state government to
violate their FEDERAL rights under the Constitution. Don't try and
reduce the rest of us to the low level of NJ. I will not even visit that
state, nor New York. I refuse to subject myself to their laws, nor will
I spend a dime to support such tyrannical regimes as your two state
Back to parsing the words of the Second
Article of Ammendment: the SUBJECT of the entire sentence is the word
"right". The VERB is "infringe", with two critical modifiers: the
negative, and the future imperative "shall be". The root of the entire
Article is "right (shall not be" infringed". All other words are
descriptive, set the stage, explain why..
As to the
term "arms", research into the language wod word meanings of that time
indicate "arms" refers to any weapon, of militray grade, capable of
being transported and deployed by one person. THus, nuclear subs are not
"arms", nor is the modern tank., warship, etc. However, BMG 50,
Bazookas, grenade lanuchers, shoulder fired AA missles, all are arms.
@Zenphamy ON "abortiin rights", your point fails at the termination of the right of that not yet born child. HIS life is protected, prior to and independly of any of our documents. It is certainly NOT a "natural right" to terminate the life of anoher without just cause AND due process, neither of which are in place when a woman or anyone else kills her unborn child.
Modern gun contrl began in the SOUth, during Recontstruction post-bellum, and was instituted to disarm freed negro slaves. Many of those laws were town, some county, some even at state level. NONE failed to infringe upon the right to arms guaranteed ALL men as pre-existing our Founding Documents. If a right is given by God, and preexists the document recognising and guaranteeing it, it is a safe thing to say it cannot be restricted (infringed) by government at ANY level, except for cause, and by due process, on an individual basis.
Later modern gun control came in New York City through a corrupt mayor (SUllivan?) who got laws passed to give HIS gang boys the advantage under the law. Since the cops were in HIS back pocket, any of HIS guys could do anything and not be charged. Any NOT his would go to jail for the same things. Convenient, no? And rotten.
Your point on nuclear and naval weapons is a valid one, and needs greater recognition.
I do have to agree with you, as well, that the false logic of "reasonable" arguments and restrictions is just that.. false. SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED means just that. Not for ANY reason. (there ARE valid reasons to restrict individuals who have proven themselves untrustworthy, a danger to society, and/or themselves, by actual conduct, observed and provable in a court of law. This insanity of government constumed armed thugs coming round and stealing a man's guns because his ten year old kid said something goofy at school is flat wrong, and MUST be stopped. Same with a man being forced to surrender his right to arms because his wife decides to divorce him and files a complaint for a restraining order as a matter of course (the lawyers encourage this sort of slime) when he's made no threat whatever, has moved two states away, and has no intention of coming round and messing with her.... but he still loses his right to arms, no chance to protest. Done deal. THAT is as wrong as the guy who wilfully stalks her to "get even" and assaults her. One is a physical assault, the other a civil assault. The latter should be prohibited.
11 months, 1 week ago on The Founders and the 2nd Amendment
I, too, disagree wiht the narrow interpretation of "arms", and the word "bear". Arms would have lincuded anything individuals and/or militia could practically make use of in defending against tyranny or invasion. Certainly this would include cannon, even larger pieces than the four pounders destroyed at Concord. Later in the day, the reinforcements fromBoston deployed a pair of field pieces against the Colonials.... had they been able to "bear" them, I've no doubt they would have brought similar fieldpieces into play in their driving off the tyrants. Further, it is also well documented that a number of privately owned and oerated ships were employed against the British, particularly along the New England coast, sinking a few British naval vessels, and destroying others. IF (and I believe it is) part of the purpose of the Second is to preserve the right of individuals and state militia to stand against tyrants, foreign and/or domestic, I would have to believe the right to own and use appropriate ships would be preserved as well. If things go crazy today, can you imagine a small, fast inshore seaboat, crewed by skilled seamen, armed with perhaps AR 10,s, FN AR, M 14, M1 Garand, maybe even a BMG 50, harrying patrol boats of a government gone mad with power, perhaps sinking or commandeering a few of them? I can..... and believe it would be wel within the meaning of the Second Article of Ammendment. If I owned such a vessel, and were in an area where it could stand against runaway government vessels, I'd not hesistate, Second or not. Once tyranny explodes into the mainstream, as it could, anything goes. The single goal at that point will be to remove them from power, and assure they cannot operate again, ever. Hmmm.. that is precisely what the Patriots had as their goal in 1775, isn't it? Nothing spared to drive the tyrannical Brits off these shores, and then wrote the Constitution wiht Ammendments to assure such tyranny cannot return. But oh my, in spite of their care against such an eventuality, it certainly appears unacceptible tyranny is coming upon us. WHY ELSE would "they" be so solid about removing the most common, and effective, means of repelling such a usurpation of power? ANd what would we NOT use, if available, to end such tyranny? Who cares what France, Britain, Cyprus, Egypt, Iran, or the "sacrosanct" United Nations might think? I certailnly don't. Nor will a few millions of other patriots.
@BrianHeise point wel made.. one minor correction, the tax on the tea was far less than five percent.. it amounted to about a penny the pound, a fraction of one percent. Worse, the tea in question was ancient stuff, foisted upon the colonies by the government-chartered British East INdia Tea Company, essentiialy an arm of the Crown, fiurther, the tax was ONLY on tea destined for yankee tea sellers. Tory tea merchants had their own stocks, fresher, higher quality, and untaxed, at very favourable prices. No wonder that tea was had overside and into the bay... though by that time the main motive was to free the patriot owned three ships holding the tea, and which would not unload until the tax was paid.. thus, the livelihood of the shipowners and crew (bound for shares, not a salary) was in view. The colonies each were founded under direct charter from the Crown, and had self-rule as one of their conditions of existence. Soon enough, the crown usurped full control, against the terms of those charters. SO, the colonies threw off their overlord, formed a new central government with VERY limited powers, retaining self-rule in all others. We see how that works today in that the overarching central government now reigns over every aspect of our individual lives... contrary to our "charter", the COnstitution. Montanans are merely attempting to retain self-rule in one small area in a matter already clearly under the self-determination of each individual. Let us hope the PEOPLE of Montana speak loudly and often to their legislators, who then over-ride the governor's veto, telling him no, even HELL NO, we will NOT allow ourselves to be subject to unconstitutioinal federal control. Perhaps Montana will be the Boston of the 1770's?
11 months, 2 weeks ago on Montana Governor Lies About the Constitution, Vetoes 2nd Amendment Protection Bill – Tenth Amendment Center
How about a new version of this, requiring Montana LEA to refuse to help the FedGov enforce ANY federal level laws conflicting with Montana state law.. such as medical marijuana, their own Firearms Freedom Act, speed laws, EPA regulations conflicting with Montana state law, state stock and wildlife laws, etc. This guy forgets it is the STATES that ceded very limited power to FedGov, retaining all other powers for itself and its people. NOWHERE is the power to limit in any way our right to arms, or to put into our bodies any substance, given to FedGov. Thus, any such laws are non-binding at state level anyway. Seems this is what SCOTUS have decided in the cases cited in this article.
Let us hope the two houses of legislature in Montana over-ride this veto. THAT will send a strong message to their governor. Perhaps he will become a tad wiser in this event.
@Brusckey and all these are right out of Karl Marx' playbook on how to turn a country socialist/communist. One main item is to destroy the family by easy divorce, contraception, abortion, abandonment of marriage (co-habiting being the current euphemism), getting Moms out of the house and into the factory/office, daycare to replace Mum, making sex a casual thing rather then sacred and reserved for marriage, homosexuality, and related ills.
1 year ago on Obama Seeking to Criminalize Biblical Concept of Marriage
@BushMaster63 the things of which you accuse our political leadaers are misdirected. The ones who have shown "slience, cowardice, and inaction" are US. This is a government OF the people, and BY the people. It is NOT a government by political leaders. If they don't pass the laws WE want, it is OUR responsibility to dump them next election (and no, don't go whining aobut term limies.. WE are the term limiters, not some law) The Supreme COurt pased Roe vs Wade... and we've done nothing to overturn or undo that. WHY? Refer to your three reasons above. That's why. How many "decent christians" voted for Romney, a man who supports abortin in some circumstances. One is either pro life in ALL situatioins, or anti life. Romney was a waffler, a vote-getter. Glad he lost. It would have just been kicking the can down the road eight more years. Now, things are coming to a ehad, and we lazy, silent Yanks are being stirred, at long last, to action.
One seemingly minor, but very significant quibble: you refer to our rights as given us by the COnstitution. This is wrong. The Constitutiion does two things, in the main: puts restrictions and responsibilities on the national government, and identifies certain of our rights, guaranteeing them to us as preexisting and from our Creator. If they are "given by" the Constitution, then they can be taken away. NEVER allow this misconception to stand. It thus puts the Constitution as the source and controller of our rights, the ones God gave us. That document is subordinate to our God. Never forget that. Seems small.. but really that's HUGE.
if he was born here of immigrant parents who were not yet naturalised, he is not a Natural Born Citizen, thus ineligible to stand for the presidency. We are a nation under the rule of laws, and must uphold them as they are written, or change them and then uphold them. If the GOP select a candidate who is not eligible, it WILL be their death knell. Too may have had enough of running roughshod over our Constitution. If the GOP will not be fiathful to that document, they deserve to lose yet AGAIN. I am already furious enough at them for the way they botched this past election. It is the party elites and power players who refused to allow the voice of WE THE PEOPLE to determine who would lead us. Now the kinyun will further mung things up for all of us, and it was totally preventable. Unless Rubio is a Natural Born Citizen, he cannot stand for that office. He IS good, no question, and his voice is badly needed in our land. How about making him the head of the Republican Party? Maybe HE can see a clear course for the future, though he might not be able to have his hand on the helm.
1 year, 3 months ago on Will Marco Rubio be the Next GOP Presidential Candidate?
@MarkMatis true enough. I hadn't "caught" that the use was for LSU promotion, thus "commercial". I can take a photo of Queen Decadent as she pours hereself out of her Rolls at kerbside Hollywood, and sell that image to the Irrational Blabbermouth for money. BUT.. and I skate. Its called "f/8 and be there" in the trade. HOWEVER, once I take that image and use it to sell my soap, I MUST get her release.. and fat chance of THAT ever happening. Your assessment IS quite accurate...... its the use that determines the need for the release. I can imagine these PP guys filing a grievance, demanding compensation, but perhaps waiving the compensation demand if LSU decide to remake the advert with the UN-"shopped" image. If they want to use the "shopped" image, then make them pay. A lot..... and file a complaint for unlawful use of their recognisable likelnesses for commercial purposes.
1 year, 4 months ago on LSU Anti-Christian PhotoShopped Image
@MarkMatis Being on private property, that is, in the stadium at the time of the event, circumvents the need for model releases for the subjects. Its sort of akin to it bieng legal to "stalk" "stars" in public places... any image snagged on or from a public place needs no release. Same deal with photographing law enforcement in the persuit of their occasional nefarious deeds. They try and arrest folks for videotaping them beating an already noncombative individual on the street or piblic sidewalk, but since they themselves are also in the public place, their complaint is groundless... they merely desire to sheid themselves from the consequences of their unlawful actioins.
depending on WHO created the original image, there may be legal recourse for editing a created work without permission. If LSU staff too the original photo, no recourse, it is theirs. If the Painted Posse somehow is owner of the image, they'd have recourse along these lines. In any case, just one more incident of discrimination against some identifiable group.
Remember, one of Karl Marx' tools for takeover is to divide the target population into factions, on any lines possible, then set those factions against each other until total chaos results. THEN the marxist socialist perverts can come in and "offer the solution" to the "problem" they have created, gain the confidence of the now-splintered population, and take over without firing a shot. One more instance of precisely this battle tactic being emplyed.