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@Yan28 @Burtonboy Questioning who he plays with isn't an excuse.
5 days, 22 hours ago on Wednesday Mashup: Undefeated Pre-Season Leafs Head To Ottawa
1 week, 4 days ago on Thursday Mashup: Feschuk drops bomb, camp opens with physicals and media day
@FloorHockeyFlopper @Rhaegar_ @wiski Thanks.
2 weeks, 4 days ago on Spencer Abbott signs one-year deal
@wiski At what point does he talk about Kessel?
@LN-093 @.JVR. It's pretty good that they compensated you. They could have just said "too bad, so sad". I'd take Marlies tickets as an apology.
2 weeks, 5 days ago on Spencer Abbott signs one-year deal
@CanuckUKinToronto The conversation has been pretty strong though.
@Yaknowwhat @Rhaegar_ @ingy56 @mcloki Yea, on both sides of the equation you have some pretty big obstacles.
@Yaknowwhat @ingy56 @mcloki At the same time, there's no guarantee a new franchise in Toronto would be anywhere near as successful. Leaf fans are too invested to just swap allegiances. I really don't know who would fork over the money required to bring the team here on the gamble that it might be a second MLSE. It could be a flop. Not a flop in the sense that it wouldn't make money, but a flop in the sense that paying 1-2B for it would be a gigantic over-payment.
@.JVR. @Rhaegar_ Lupul will be traded in time. I doubt he finishes his contract here.
@.JVR. @Rhaegar_ 2, or possibly 3, depending on how much experience he gains.
@dlb Mad @Rhaegar_ I know, and to be fair, last year was the most forgivable. I feel like I still would have traded Raymond at the very least. These decisions wouldn't have existed if we hadn't made errors before though. Like I said, the situation really snow-balled because of some initial miscalculations. I think we have to be a little more ruthless about what constitutes being successful enough to not be sellers at the deadline.
@dlb Mad @.JVR. We own his rights for six more years minimum. There's no rush. He has played one season of pro hockey.
@dlb Mad @Rhaegar_ Well, this year we didn't make the playoffs anyways, and passed on trading Raymond, Kulemin and McClement. I doubt their absence would have been missed, and for all we know, increased (forced) ice time for Holland and Ashton may have been a boost.
The year prior, you could make a case that trading MacArthur leaves us outside the playoffs, but if trading a piece that you deemed not worth having destroys our chances at the playoffs, isn't that further proof we should be thinking macro, and moving on from him?
The year prior to that is really when the big decisions were made that set everything else in motion. Burke kept everyone in the hopes they could turn it around, and in the end, created the snowball effect for all the future decisions on those players.
@dlb Mad @Rhaegar_ It doesn't kill me either on an individual basis, but when it's 2 or 3 guys every year, it starts to add up. Imagine if we had those 3 first rounders in the system right now instead of nothing. Nothing about roster would be different except that we'd have 3 assets extra, of notable value.
@dlb Mad @Rhaegar_ I know that you can sort of explain all the circumstances that resulted in those decisions making sense in the moment they were made. What I'm saying is that the organization probably needs to take a more macro-view of their dealings while they're in a stage of being playoff hopefuls, so that you don't ever find yourself having to make those decisions to begin with.
In 2012, this might have looked like: "Well, we've been in a tailspin for a month and our goalie is still injured, and everyone hates the coach. We've got offers on the table for our whole 2nd line. We're no where near the Cup. Take them." Or maybe you keep one of them in that situation (likely the center), but you don't just keep moving forward with everyone until they leave you for nothing.
@dlb Mad @Rhaegar_ Okay, well maybe I'll adapt the analogy to say you just decide to give your house away to the first buyer who offers you exactly what you paid for it (or less), and forget about the equity you've accrued.
@dlb Mad @Rhaegar_ The analogy makes even more sense when you consider that. That's exactly the point. Just because you have outgrown something doesn't mean you discard it and take out a second mortgage. We invested in those pieces, and then got nothing for them.
You might have a point on the contracts/cap stuff, if we had adequately replaced any of these players. Not only do we have nothing to show for developing them into NHL talents and allowing them to gain league wide recognition resulting in 20M dollar deals getting done - but we also have no suitable replacements for them. There is still no one to fill Grabovski's role. We hope that Holland can do it, but we have no idea - he may not even make the team. We're hoping MacArthur can be replaced by Booth or Santorelli, but MacArthur has been better then them year after year for some time now. We have no choice but to hope Clarkson can be a winger replacement for someone like Kulemin.
I guess you might argue pretty successfully that a guy like Winnik is an upgrade on Colborne, but that's about it.
@LeafsGuru @Rhaegar_ @dlb Mad Yes, but we were offered a pick and a prospect for him the previous year and kept him despite the tailspin. And buying him out with an amnesty after his worst season ever was still not wise. Why not give him another year and then use the amnesty if you have to? if he has a better year, you can trade him, or retain a little salary and trade him.
I didn't want to pay Kulemin 4M - I wanted to trade him to one of the teams who did want him. Again, if he's getting 16M somewhere, than teams were willing to pay for him. We were offered a 1st round pick for him in 2012, and last year Dreger said it would take literally no effort to move Kulemin to a contender. Granted, it's Dreger, but still, good defensive forwards are strong commodities at the deadline.
Colborne was not a circumstance of lower cap, he was a circumstance of cap mismanagement. The only reason Chicago couldn't afford Niemi is because they won the Cup and Toews and Kane received max bonuses on their ELC's - the only players to ever achieve that. We couldn't do it because of poor decision making forcing us to run a roster 3 men short.
@LeafsGuru @Rhaegar_ @dlb Mad If you get a raise at work and suddenly you are ready to move into a larger home, would you just give the old one away for nothing because you don't want it anymore anyways? That's just a really lame excuse for bad management. So you didn't like Grabovski - great. He's not everyone's cup of tea. Fact is, other NHL teams have now paid him almost 25M dollars since we bought him out. MacArthur has about 20M since we let him go. Kulemin 16M. Colborne has a new contract and will get a shot at the top six this year. These guys had value. Whether you wanted them or not, they were perfectly suitable assets for someone else; clearly.
@LeafsGuru @Rhaegar_ @CanuckUKinToronto @dlb Mad Ha, those teams won the Cup and were maxed to the salary cap limit and those are pretty much the only names they lost without a return, between the three of them. You could also add Viktor Stalberg to the list, but that's it. And when you look at that list, well, Ference was a bottom pairing D, Scuderi is quite old and has clearly lost a step, and Niemi only left because his arbitration award placed him outside Chicago's cap limit after a Cup win.
LA turned their back-up goalie into Gaborik. Chicago used a pick they traded an asset for to bring in Brandon Saad. Smart teams turn the assets their done with into something that can continue helping them more often than not. We have more players we've let go for nothing than these three teams combined.
@.JVR. I don't think he said anything about balancing the lines - just making 3 scoring lines. Could still be top heavy. Depends what version of Booth you're getting though.
@LeafsGuru @Rhaegar_ @dlb Mad No one wants a farm for them. A return indicative of their worth would be nice though. Four of the names I mentioned have top six roles, all four of them making at least 3M a year, with 3 of them over 4M - yet we shouldn't worry about getting a return because someone wouldn't give the farm? We were offered a first round pick for 2 of those names.
@CanuckUKinToronto @Rhaegar_ @dlb Mad Really? Who is Chicago letting go for no return? LA? Boston?
@dlb Mad But the players we keep letting go for nothing do find roles on other teams. MacArthur, Grabovski, Raymond, Kulemin, Colborne, even McClement. It's not like after we let them go, no one could find any room for them.
@Burtonboy So hard to justify when you have guys like Hjalmarsson and Seidenberg making 4M.
2 weeks, 6 days ago on Spencer Abbott signs one-year deal
@LeafsGuru @Rhaegar_ @dlb Mad He used it very well in Calgary. Leaf fans have a very particular thing they want done with size. Colborne uses it to control the boards and set up plays. It's unfortunate that Carter Ashton was hitting more than him and subsequently bumped the better player from the roster.
@LeafsGuru @Rhaegar_ @dlb Mad No, but they were hopelessly out-matched in the Finals. At the end they have nothing to show for it, and they lost two 1st round picks, Stralman, Richards, Boyle, Dorsett, etc...
@MaxwellHowe @Rhaegar_ @LeafsGuru @dlb Mad I can't think of a fan base in the league that degrades its own players better than the Leafs. Though yes, it is amusing how Leaf Nation can simultaneously make a decent NHL player seem like a washed up scrub, and yet also find the notion of trading a prospect totally abhorrent.
@Burtonboy @Rhaegar_ @ingy56 @Mcost61 I hope not, because invariably someone is putting their foot in their mouth in the new era of social media access to the team.
@LeafsGuru @Rhaegar_ @dlb Mad We are not in any position to delude ourselves into thinking we can win the Stanley Cup though. We are a team that has made the playoffs once in a decade. We need to to be collecting assets and not losing them for nothing. Colorado just drafted a potential Crosby-like talent, so of course they can afford to part with Stastny. Even then, I bet Stastny wishes he'd traded him for a quality defender when he had the chance.
@dlb Mad @Rhaegar_ Has an edge on Holland right now, in my opinion. We have no idea what to expect from Kontiola.
@MaxwellHowe @Rhaegar_ @LeafsGuru @dlb Mad I know what you said. It is just all too typical of Leaf Nation.
@Burtonboy @Rhaegar_ @ingy56 @Mcost61 He didn't say much at all, in my opinion. He basically said "same old, same old, with some tweaks to the collapse and swarm, and we're good!" Carlyle has re-stated this every time he talks, even going so far as to fall back on his old catchphrases yesterday. "I sent out a memo saying I expect them to compete to a higher level".
That worked so well last year.
@LeafsGuru @Rhaegar_ @dlb Mad Stastny and Clarkson weren't retained because no one wanted their expiring contracts. They were retained because their teams were fighting for a playoff spot. It was the same reason we kept Grabovski when his contract was expiring even though there were offers on the table. Same reason we kept Kulemin and MacArthur, too. Offers were there, we simply decided to keep them and then later lose them for nothing.
@Burtonboy @Rhaegar_ @ingy56 @Mcost61 I like what I hear from and about Horacek.
@MaxwellHowe @Rhaegar_ @LeafsGuru @dlb Mad Right, but the point is, you came to this determination after reading a blurb that contained absolutely no criticism whatsoever from (presumably) a Coyotes blogger/fan, having never really watched him. How are the Leafs ever going to conduct any trades to their advantage if they must discount all their own players achievements, focus solely on their flaws, and do the exact opposite for the opposition?
@LeafsGuru @Rhaegar_ @dlb Mad Doesn't make it intelligent to do so though.
@dlb Mad @Rhaegar_ An NHL player. Tangible depth we desperately needed. A big center who could have covered a lot of injury troubles. Probably a more valuable pick. Potentially someone who could have been a piece of a package for a more significant player.
@Burtonboy @ingy56 @Mcost61 When does he talk about changing? Every interview he does he re-iterates that he will stick to his guns even more this year.
@dlb Mad @Rhaegar_ Also not really sure I follow that logic. We don't miss MacArthur or Raymond, either, but I'd still rather have traded them at the appropriate time and gained a future asset as opposed to losing them for nothing, or less than they were worth.
@dlb Mad @Rhaegar_ Not really the point. I would have slotted him into the top 9 last year, and he likely would have performed even better for us than with Calgary. Lupul - Kadri - Colborne would have been nice to see, given we lacked a big board presence, and that is one of his defining qualities. Whether we kept him for this season or not, he would have become more valuable than a 4th round pick.
@MaxwellHowe @Rhaegar_ @LeafsGuru @dlb Mad Stone has achieved very little by comparison though. Someone could write a very similar little blurb about Franson. Leads his team in hits. Powerplay specialist. Blocks shots. Played at a 41 point pace, compiling 62 points over the last two seasons, partially from the bottom pairing.
Just find it amusing how something like this makes him "too good" for Franson.
@ingy56 @Mattmark @dlb Mad @Mcost61 Colborne couldn't "make" our team, but went on to out-produce our entire 4th line and some of the 3rd.
@MaxwellHowe @LeafsGuru @dlb Mad Had you ever even heard of him before reading that little blurb?
@DeclanK @TheCanucksnaphook @Rhaegar_ Yea, but on a team that has Giroux, Schenn, Couturier in front of him. Plus, the Leafs really need to try and fill out four lines, given all the holes they have. If they would eat half his contract, it would be worth thinking about.
Will probably end up in Dallas with Brad Richards though.
3 months ago on Toronto Maple Leafs News & Notes
@TheCanucksnaphook I'd take him if the Flyers would eat some salary for us.
@TheCanucksnaphook @Mcost61 @hoolihan Supposedly the bidding for Niskanen starts at 7 years, 40M. You'll know when he gets signed.
Crazy that Philly keeps being a free agent and trade destination hot spot despite all the negative stuff that goes on there.
3 months, 1 week ago on (Monday Mashup) Schedule Released
@Murph2417 @Rhaegar_ @Yaknowwhat If we were playing the Blackhawks, Bozak would not go head to head with Toews.
@Yaknowwhat Yea,. but Stastny was their top defensive center, eating all the tough match-ups. Big difference from the Bozak line, which has to be sheltered a lot compared to most top lines.
And also, Bozak's numbers were wildly inflated and statistically unlikely to repeat themselves.