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@Anthony Petrielli @leafmealone @Mattmark @Hammertownleaffan Interesting that you picked the Cup winners from 2010 and 2013 instead of our beloved Leafs to illustrate your point. We'll see how many of those players Hawks can actually afford to keep.
My guess, without having checked, is that the majority if not all of the players on your list were also in WJC tournaments. Not sure what you get out of conflating 'better' with 'skill level.' A sixth-year third line NHL pro is undoubtedly in some sense 'better' than Nylander at age 18, but this is something quite distinct from their respective skill levels and the type of game they are able to play.
8 hours, 34 minutes ago on Toronto Maple Leafs’ Kyle Dubas on Brady & Walker
@leafmealone @Anthony Petrielli @Mattmark @Hammertownleaffan Thank you. I don't know what got into AP... he doesn't usually play the politician's trick of distorting someone else's words into false evidence of imbecility.
WJC rosters are the national teams of the future. Between watching a WJC game between Canada and the USA (or Sweden, Russia, Finland) and a mid-season NHL game there's no contest. The former is infinitely more pleasing hockey, even from the third and fourth lines.
9 hours, 3 minutes ago on Toronto Maple Leafs’ Kyle Dubas on Brady & Walker
@Anthony Petrielli @Mattmark @leafmealone @Hammertownleaffan That's too obviously silly to be anything but a deliberate misunderstanding. I'd point out that no NHL team could ever afford to pay for the equivalent of what a typical WJC roster will evolve into in five years time (McDavid, Strome, Marner, Hanifin, Domi, Nurse, etc.), or play the sort of game that this level of skill would make possible... but I'll let you figure it out for yourself.
9 hours, 12 minutes ago on Toronto Maple Leafs’ Kyle Dubas on Brady & Walker
@leafmealone @Hammertownleaffan You're right about the level of hockey. The WJC is unreal... no pro teams in the cap era can assemble anywhere near the same level of skill.
11 hours, 28 minutes ago on Toronto Maple Leafs’ Kyle Dubas on Brady & Walker
@leafmealone @Mattmark Sorry... if you posted that information I don't remember seeing it.
So if there's nothing really wrong with Marner, are you okay with taking him instead of Strome or Hanifin?
11 hours, 33 minutes ago on Toronto Maple Leafs’ Kyle Dubas on Brady & Walker
@leafmealone He would only play there two or three times a year, right?
11 hours, 43 minutes ago on Toronto Maple Leafs’ Kyle Dubas on Brady & Walker
The only question mark about Marner right now, as far as I can tell, is that we don't know how serious the injury is that's keeping him out of action.
Apart from that I think he should be our slam-dunk initial pick, both from the point of view of ability and organizational need.
11 hours, 45 minutes ago on Toronto Maple Leafs’ Kyle Dubas on Brady & Walker
Someone made the point, below, that if whoever we draft gets off to a slower career start than another player we could have taken instead, there's going to be no end of recrimination. Well, we can't read the future... but if you're worried about ending up on the losing side, the solution is simple: just support the guy who's being backed by the most posters who never admit they're wrong.
11 hours, 52 minutes ago on Toronto Maple Leafs’ Kyle Dubas on Brady & Walker
@Jay_Berg Before someone beats us to it:
14 hours, 11 minutes ago on Toronto Maple Leafs’ Kyle Dubas on Brady & Walker
@DylanJ @Mattmark @Zep2 No way. We need someone who can skaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate!
14 hours, 16 minutes ago on Toronto Maple Leafs’ Kyle Dubas on Brady & Walker
@DylanJ @Mattmark "If ifs and ands were pots and pans, there'd be no need of tinkers."
--George Bernard Shaw
14 hours, 18 minutes ago on Toronto Maple Leafs’ Kyle Dubas on Brady & Walker
@Cameron19 @Jay_Berg "I'm definitely done with "what if" trade scenarios."
That'll be the day.
14 hours, 20 minutes ago on Toronto Maple Leafs’ Kyle Dubas on Brady & Walker
@Jay31 @Mattmark You're preaching to the converted, pal. I don't even buy lottery tickets.
14 hours, 24 minutes ago on Toronto Maple Leafs’ Kyle Dubas on Brady & Walker
@Jay31 @Mattmark Right. Do everything the hard way. ;-)
14 hours, 26 minutes ago on Toronto Maple Leafs’ Kyle Dubas on Brady & Walker
@GibsonLPStudio @theselfishsloth @Mattmark Yeah, now.
14 hours, 28 minutes ago on Toronto Maple Leafs’ Kyle Dubas on Brady & Walker
@Burtonboy @Mattmark Of course. But it still hurts to know that after defying the odds to get that far, we couldn't get the payoff when the odds were in our favour.
14 hours, 29 minutes ago on Toronto Maple Leafs’ Kyle Dubas on Brady & Walker
14 hours, 32 minutes ago on Toronto Maple Leafs’ Kyle Dubas on Brady & Walker
This has got to be the most depressing story of a depressing year:
14 hours, 33 minutes ago on Toronto Maple Leafs’ Kyle Dubas on Brady & Walker
@Mitch_S2 @Burtonboy I think Marner is the best bet, too. There are no questions about his skating, skill level or three-zone play. Granted he's not as big as Strome... but, then, lots of NHL stars aren't and Marner is no midget.
16 hours, 48 minutes ago on Leafs Notebook Season Finale – April 20
@In it to Winnik Of coursed again! (No, that was last night...)
1 day, 9 hours ago on Saturday Mashup: NHL Draft Lottery – Connor McDavid or Bust
@theselfishsloth @Mattmark @LoovTrain Yeah, but that's not by choice. You don't actually have to court it.
@In it to Winnik Probably not even in a thesaurus.
@LoovTrain You guys are watching? Masochists...
@Radar O'Rielly PVR.
So the Marlies have now won seven in a row and get Grand Rapids for their pains--the one team in the past few weeks that's had their number. Bummer.
@Optimustic @Mattmark @Cameron19 Good generals are open to all input and turn it to their advantage. There's a great scene in the movie The Longest Day where General Erich von Marcs, the only German general who foresaw the advantages of the allies landing in Normandy instead of opposite Calais, is on the phone with some no-name soldier who's reporting something unusual going on, and the first thing he asks him is, 'Was meinen Sie?' (i.e., 'What's your opinion?'). Unlike most 'administrators' he wasn't too proud to solicit an assessment from front-line staff.
1 day, 13 hours ago on Saturday Mashup: NHL Draft Lottery – Connor McDavid or Bust
@Dogger They're pretty even. I think the Jets were happy to settle for whichever one we didn't take. Most of us here were leaning toward Ehlers prior to the draft, I believe.
@Optimustic @Cameron19 @Mattmark Very good point. Give General Optimustic another star.
@BoneChompski @Mattmark Spoken like a gung-ho sergeant, but not necessarily like a wily general.
@Cameron19 @Mattmark We've had nearly half a season to come to terms with the idea that winning can be good tactics but bad strategy.
Europeans have known this for years. In international tournaments the Soviets would regularly dog it in meaningless matches and turn on the jets in elimination games when it mattered.
@Cameron19 @Mattmark I'd rather it was eventually. Don't want to see them exit in the first round.
How about if they play well today, gain a point and lose in a shootout?
Should Marlies throw their game with Wolves today and face Utica in the 1st round instead of Grand Rapids? ;-)
Marlies have now won six in a row, and the best part is that the youngsters are the ones powering them.
1 day, 15 hours ago on Saturday Mashup: NHL Draft Lottery – Connor McDavid or Bust
@burroz He's been discussed here before... he's a centre, and quite a few think he'd be a wise choice if he's still on the board when we pick.
@burroz I mean Kyle Connor with our 2nd 1st-rounder.
1 day, 16 hours ago on Saturday Mashup: NHL Draft Lottery – Connor McDavid or Bust
@Yaknowwhat Marner and Connor would also be nice and cost us nothing.
@Xxxxxnew They might get some interesting phone calls all the same. They'd be foolish not to consider them.
2 days, 10 hours ago on Saturday Mashup: NHL Draft Lottery – Connor McDavid or Bust
Oilers didn't commit themselves to taking McDavid. Trying to solicit offers? It's actually conceivable that they could be further ahead if they held onto their other picks while adding the 1st and 2nd of a team also willing to strip itself of other valuable assets in return for McDavid.
@RandomScrub @DeclanK Wake me from this nightmare.
@RandomScrub @Mattmark They're both good scorers as well as playmakers. Leivo, for along the boards and in front of the net.
Marner. Groomed as a centre. Nylander on his flank.
@djamon @Mattmark Conventions, whether wise or foolish, aren't chiseled in stone the way your cognitive processing seems to be. I'm glad my own decision-making isn't so inflexibly bound, and I don't think most GMs would submit to such a restriction either. They understand that their objective is to build a team, not to conform to categorical precepts that could back them into a corner. When they sit down at a draft table they do so to make decisions, not to ensure that their choices reflect someone else's talent ranking. Since it's a coin flip between Strome, Marner and Hanifin, perceptions of organizational need will obviously play a significant role in Yotes' decision-making, as they should.
P.S. I'm not quite sure why the realization that you "can't predict how a prospect will turn out" doesn't also suggest the futility of allowing yourself to be categorically bound by exactly this sort of prediction (which is all a draft ranking can ever be).
@Neon Dion @Burtonboy It could mean Hanifin.
@djamon @Mattmark If you have a sense of players being 'ranked almost identical,' you know you were being silly in asking whether Oilers will now take Hanifin. Obviously, you'll take a generational talent if you have the chance, no matter what position he plays. But that's the exception the proves the rule... because what team couldn't use a generational talent?
The more likely scenario is that players ranked one position apart will have almost identical upsides. My point is that you can never lose sight of your needs no matter what hockey transaction you're talking about--trades, drafting, free agents, it doesn't matter. That's true whether you're tinkering with the the top, the middle or the bottom of your lineup, and no matter where you happen to be in the draft.
@djamon @Mattmark Not necessarily. You could be drafting at the top because you have perfectly adequate scorers but can't keep the puck out of your net. You would then be crazy not to take Orr over Gratzky, even if Gretzky were ranked first and Orr second.
2 days, 11 hours ago on Saturday Mashup: NHL Draft Lottery – Connor McDavid or Bust
@djamon @Mattmark (?) The best of anything is useless to you if you don't need it and can't use it.
@djamon @loomx Every team ultimately selects based on need. Always.
@loomx @Mattmark Do they have any up-and-coming centres?
What are the chances Yotes take Hanifin, leaving us with a choice of centres?
Oh, well. At least it wasn't Bruins, Devils or Flyers... and us picking fifth.