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No way will Boise ever get a look from the Big 12. They were looked at for an instant when the conference was desperate to stay at 10 to maintain contracts but they will not get looked at again. BSU does not compete at all in any other sport outside of FB, their ratings are not greater than a lot of the other possibilities, their academics are abysmal, and the FB program is completely dependent upon their coach and once he leaves you will just have a pile of garbage with nothing of worth.
BYU was also approached when the conference was in desperate need of someone to join and BYU burnt a lot of bridges with the conference over their talks with the Big 12. BYU demanded a set number of nationally televised games each year (no one in the Big 12 gets that), they wanted the rights to all of their games so they could re-air them on BYUtv (no one in the Big 12 gets that), and they have the obvious no Sunday play. Also, the networks, mainly FOX, did not like BYU as an option and one of the big reasons they used was the no Sunday play.
The Big 12 signed the GOR unanimously with OU and UT being the biggest proponents of it and being the first ones to sign it while their is a group of ACC schools who will not even consider signing a GOR. OU and OSU approached the PAC last summer about joining and Scott said they were a lock to get in and the weekend before they were supposed to be announced Scott told Boren, OU's prez, that it was a no go because a group of PAC presidents did not want to risk making less money and losing access to CA. Needless to say this greatly pissed off Boren, especially after he was assured that OU would get in. There are a lot of people here in OK that think OU/PAC bridges were burnt because of this. UT will for sure stay in the Big 12 for the duration of the GOR for many reasons including the LHN and the fact that they hold a lot of power and influence in the Big 12 and they would just be an equal in another conference.
Will the ACC stay together for the next 12 years to try to outlast the Big 12 GOR? I doubt it.
5 months ago on Big Bang Theories: The Countdown To Super-Conferences (Part 2)
Texas A&M hated being the little brother to Texas. Texas approached the conference about a conference wide network years ago and was turned down. Then 3 years ago Texas approached A&M about partnering together for a Lonestar network and again Texas was rebuffed. A&M left the conference because they never were relevant in anything except for the Lonestar Showdown and even then Texas got all the glory for it so they joined the SEC so they would be special and the only Texas school in the conference. A&M wants their butts kissed and have someone tell them they are special.
Nebraska left because of paranoia and fear of being left behind when it seemed like a group was going to the PAC. Nebraska voted for unequal revenue sharing the same a Texas, Nebraska voted along with Texas on most issues. Colorado left because their alumni is centered on the westcoast and Mizzou left because they made a fool of themselves for year trying to get into the B1G and were constantly told no and then when NU got the nod over them they said they wanted a list of demands met by the conference and when every single one of those demands were met they still left for the SEC because they felt like they were not appreciated. Oh, boo hoo.
Reminder, the Big 12 voted unanimously for a GOR, Texas was the biggest supporter of it and was one of the first to sign, and there is a whole group in the ACC who will not even consider a GOR. So who is the more stable of the two?
The B1G and PAC have had GOR's for a whole lot longer than the Big 12 has had one. The big reason why the 50 mill exit fee cannot be upheld is because it is punitive and therefore not legal. An exit fee is not supposed to be a punishment that the conference inflicts upon a school for leaving it is supposed to be a payment in damages and for the exit fee to be set at 50 million, 3 times the annual conference revenue, then that goes far beyond just damages. The GOR is seen as an equitable unanimous agreement between all schools and the conference that in exchange for membership in the conference and all its benefits, money, they will sign over their media rights to the conference.
5 months ago on Big Bang Theories: The Countdown To Super-Conferences (Part 1)
In order to have pods you would have to petition the NCAA to have more than 2 divisions in a conference. You could redue 2 divisions and interchange the schools using the "pod" like system but you would only really play each school 2 out of every 6 years whereas in a true 4 X 4 pod you would play more frequently, 2 out of every 4 years.
Also consider the potential for semifinal games. Yes, you would have to petition the NCAA but the potential revenue from that could be huge and could possibly double revenue received from the CCG/conference post season play. Not to mention make the regular season so much more important and entertaining.
5 months ago on With Seven Schools Exiting The Big East, Get Ready For The Big Bang
The Big 12 or even the B1G WILL get into the SEC footprint no matter what the SEC does. The B1G is after the northeast and eastcoast, maybe they go into the southeast with GT, and the Big 12 is going east and south. FSU and Clemson are big gets but even if they are unavailable Miami is still there along with other possibilities.
Slive along with other influential SEC administrators know the deal. The BTN is raking in the cash and with each new addition/market their network revenue grows and for the SEC to stay at the same level they will have to go after new markets, NC and VA, because double tapping the same markets, Florida and SC, nets no additional revenue. Also, going beyond 16 really dilutes what makes the big money in the first place, traditional marquee matchups.
The ACC has long occupied the SEC traditional footprint so I don't see why having the Big 12 in the footprint is a big deal. No matter what though, if the ACC does indeed fall apart, either the B1G or the Big 12 will get into the southeast territory.
@LifeLongGarnetGold Imagine having a possible conference setup like this.
Plains Pod: Oklahoma and Kansas schools
Southwest Pod: Texas schools
Midwest/Eastcoast Pod: ISU, WVU, UL, Pitt/VT
Southeast Pod: FSU, Miami, Clemson, GT/NCST
(The NCAA would have to be petitioned for a pod system but if the Big 12, B1G, and the SEC all petitioned for it then I don't see why it wouldn't pass.)
Play everyone from your pod and then one away game to each of the other pods with a home game against someone from each of the other pods. That limits travel to a minimum, play everyone in the conference 2 out of every 4 years, and maintain traditional rivalries.
The SEC adding two could create a similar setup with pods.
Not to be a buzzkill but there is no way in hell that the Big 12 would ever, EVER add a school like Memphis. The Big 12, without a conference wide network, is after marquee schools that could potentially add to the conference's TV deal and that is the only way that the Big 12 can make more money. Don't be mistaken, the Big 12 will not voluntarily chose to take less money just for the sake of expansion. The Big 12 will only expand if they can make more money or at the very least not lose money, the CCG and reworked TV deal would have to offset revenue losses.
That brings me to my original point. HELL no to Memphis and Cincy. The Big 12 is after a combination of the following FSU, Miami, Clemson, GT, VT, NCST, UL, Pitt, or ND in any way possible. ND is highly desired by all and is DeLoss Dodds' wet dream and Dodds will do anything he can to get ND associated with the Big 12, I'm talking selling his soul here. FSU is key to Big 12 expansion because they would be worth expanding for financially. Miami is a huge ratings draw that brings a large market, recruiting grounds, very high academic rating (the Big 12 has lost 4 AAU schools and both Dodds and Boren desire academic prestige), and you can bet that FOX would be willing to pay big bucks to have Miami on their networks (especially to work out a tier 3 deal with them like they have with so many other Big 12 schools).
Basically if the Big 12 goes to just 12 then FSU will need to be in the picture to make financial sense to expand and if the right schools are available, key word is available, then the Big 12 will go beyond 12 but none of those schools will be Memphis or Cincy. UL will get a look long before Memphis because Boren likes UL and UL is a BB elite school that has a strong overall athletic department that spends more than any other school outside of the power 5 conferences. Pitt was looked at by the Big 12 in the last round of expansion before they chose the ACC and I think they would get looked at again if the ACC fell apart, the Backyard Brawl would keep WVU happy. I think the SEC will take UNC and Duke, the B1G will look at BC/GT/UVA/UCONN and see who makes the most sense for them, and the Big 12 will try to get FSU/Clemson/Miami/NCST/VT/UL.
Absolutely would HATE to be in the same conference as BYU. If the Big 12 were ever to go to 16 then the conference would go with pods instead of east/west divisions.
I would love to have FSU, Miami, GT, Clemson, NCST, UL, or Pitt in case we can't get one of the others. I really would like to get GT for the sake of geographic sanity and so the eastcoast/southeastern schools would have close rivals/travel partners. However, if GT is off the table like you said then I guess Pitt could fill that spot.
Just really don't want BYU in the conference.
5 months, 2 weeks ago on ACC Goes Boom!
I can't see the ACC aligning with the SEC in regards to the playoffs. Swofford has been freaking out in regards to how revenue from the playoffs would be distributed. Swofford and the ACC want the revenue to be split completely evenly amongst the five major conferences and Slive as well as pretty much everyone else have favored a revenue distribution model based on participation in the playoffs. You can see why the ACC would be against that because if the playoffs would have been in place the past 10 years then the ACC would have made a great deal less in revenue compared to all the other major conferences and they would have even made less than the Mountain West. So if the SEC went to the ACC and said hey lets vote together on organizing the playoffs the ACC would say sure lets do it and lets all have equal revenue sharing even though we rarely will ever make the playoffs while the SEC goes pretty much every year. Do you think Slive will sit there and say you know what I don't want to make the most money out of everyone, I in fact will take a lot less money so everyone can have an equal share even if they didn't put in the work to earn it? I don't think so.
1 year ago on SEC, ACC, Big 12 And Others Should Push Big Ten, Pac-12 Toward Rose Bowl
A lot of people keep saying that there is nothing to the ACC rumors and that they were just started by some WVU blogger but that is completey wrong. Back when A&M was rumored to become a new member of the SEC the Big 12 asked many schools including Arkansas, numerous ACC schools, and even Pitt if they would want to join the conference. These schools all admitted to being approached by the Big 12 and they all said they declined because they didn't want to join a completely unstable conference. Then, after the Big 12 added TCU and WVU, signed the grant of rights, and made revenue sharing equal the conference stabilized and the ACC rumors began to resurface on ACC blogs about the Big 12 once again approaching ACC schools. A WVU blogger just claimed to have insider information regarding these "talks". Swofford himself stated that despite the Big 12 being far better than than the ACC in regards to football that no ACC school would join the Big 12 unless they became a lot more stable and could offer a great deal more money. Right around the time he said this the ESPN deal was coincidentally leaked.
Now the ESPN deal is pretty much a done deal it looks like the Big 12 can offer a whole lot more money and with the GOR being extended to match the new deal, until 2025, the conference is going to be locked together for the next 13 years. Then there is the whole playoff revenue distribution deal where the conferences that participate in the playoffs make substantially more than those that are not in the playoffs, the Big 12 would have sent 9 teams in the last 10 years and the ACC would have sent 1. The Big 12 can offer a whole lot more money than the ACC and with this announcement they are just saying "Yeah, what we have been telling you is completely true". The ACC schools may try and leverage a Big 12 invite to get an invite from the SEC, but I think the SEC will hold out and see if the ACC will fall apart and then they can pick up the schools they have been wanting (VA Tech and NC State). My opinion is that while Clemson and FSU have been kind of on board I think this announcement is aimed at someone else. The Big 12 was also trying to convince other schools like GT of joining but they were less receptive than CU and FSU and with this deal they will be more inclined to listen, but I think this could be aimed at an even bigger fish that everyone has been after, ND. I believe ND is a complete longshot but Dodds has been after them for years and he wants them more than anything and he will try anything to get them. Will dangling a big fat pay check in front of their faces convince them, probably not, but they will try anything.
1 year ago on Big 12 TV Contract: ESPN, FOX $2.6 Billion Package and Impact on Expansion
Once again it is not me who uses insults and tries to belittle someone. I have no sour grapes and I AM NOT MAKING THIS SOME KIND OF AN OU BYU THING. PaulPoyfair said I made an argument without facts so I used sources for my opinions and then you come back and say it is "faulty logic and spurious arguments". Using such things as sports magazines, online sports articles from news sources, and actual market sizes and state populations is "faulty logic". I said Utah is a small market, PPfair said it is a very big market, and then I use actual census numbers for population to make my point but its considered faulty by you. You are a BYU fan and good for you but you can't expect every one else in the world to love BYU as much as a BYU fan does. Here are some more facts that you will find faulty: the PAC refused to allow BYU in because of religious affiliation and the B1G didn't want BYU because they are not AAU members. When a couple Big 12 fans say "hey we don't think BYU is that great" you say we are bigots and idiots even though the PAC rejected you purely on religion, but I guess you don't consider that bigotry. You think you are the greatest thing to ever play on the gridiron and if anyone disagrees you immediately insult them and tell them the only reason they would have that opinion MUST be because of bigottry. Then, when we say we need to move east to not isolate our newest member WVU we are once again idiots and biggots.
1 year ago on Clemson, Florida State Big 12 Rumor Should Put Other Conferences On-Guard
As an OU fan we are supposed to go against all things OSU but on this we agree. OSU went to a BCS bowl and beat a 4th ranked Stanford team helmed by the upcoming 1st pick of the 2012 NFL draft. OSU should have gone to the NC but were robbed by the pollsters.
Not any motivation for an ACC team to join the Big 12? Now who is ignorant of college sports? The ACC makes currently 13 million a year per team and in the renegotiations with ESPN they were offered 15-16 million but they rejected it wanting 18 million and now they are going to mediation. The Big 12 is finalizing a deal with ESPN that will give them 19.2 to 20 million per team each year and they get to sell their tier 3 rights for however much they can get (UT gets 15 million a year, KU gets 8 million, and OU signed a deal to get 5 million a year) in the ACC deal all tiers are owned by ESPN. There is a contract escalator in the Big 12 deal where if they add 2 teams to get to 12 and a CCG then every school would get an additional 2 million a year. DO THE MATH. If FSU and Clemson joined the Big 12 they would make 22 million in tv revenue and they could sell their tier 3 rights (if OU can get 5 million so can FSU) so they would make 27 million a year opposed to 16-18 million and over the period of the deal, until 2025 with the grant of rights, they would make 130 million dollars more than what they would have made in the ACC. This doesn't even take into account playoff money. Now these exact numbers haven't been published my a legitimate news source but it has been reported that conferences represented in the playoffs will in fact make substantially more than the conferences that are not represented http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=159&f=4582&t=8921394&p=1.
Sorry to tell you this but I don't have a problem with your cult one bit. I left religion out of it because I was referring purely to football and athletics if you took it as an insult to your beliefs then I'm sorry but I was not being prejudiced I was being a fan of college football. By saying that BYU doesn't offer what the fans claim I was referring to the vast numbers of fans you have and how all conferences would love to have BYU if they weren't a religious school. Market value is because Utah has a small market (population of 2.8 million), Oklahoma for example has a population of 3.8 million with both OKC 1.6 million and Tulsa 1.2 million. In a Sports Illustrated story on estimated fanbases/national followings they published months ago OU had a fanbase in the top 5/10 in the country with over 1.8 million and BYU was placed a lot lower than that. The mediocrity I was referring to is that BYU has 10 NC's in all sports which would put them at middle of the pack in the Big 12 and like clockwork all BYU fans mention their 1 NC in football back in 84' that they won with an amazing game against a 6-6 Michigan. That NC was highly contested by several schools and coaches across the country because they claimed BYU played a weak schedule, which is why they remained undefeated, and if the 3 teams all ahead of BYU had not lost their bowl games BYU would not have won the NC for that year. Once again as a current Big 12 member and fan I would not like to see my team play BYU because it is not exciting or fun, BYU won in 2009 because our Heisman winning QB left the game because he landed on his shoulder weird and the true freshman Landry Jones took over in his very first college game.
FYI- when the Big 12 was looking for expansion candidates and they talked to BYU ESPN specifically advised not to take BYU (this was published by CBSsports and other sites back in August-October.
I heard rumors that the Big 12 was in talks to take FSU, Clemson, Louisville, and BYU as a football only member with ND as a partial football member with all their other sports in the conference. While I like all of those schools and would love to have them I absolutely want no part of BYU. Putting BYU in that package deal makes it horrible. Besides, if we have learned anything from the Big East its that having partial members here and full time members there is that it creates instability, the one thing the Big 12 has finally overcome. BYU does not offer everything that BYU and its fans claim. BYU has no market value, you cannot count every mormon alive as a BYU sports fan, it would further isolate WVU and the Big 12 DOES NOT want to do that, and their programs are mediocre at best. The reason BYU wants out of their independency is because the ratings for their sports has been a lot lower than what they projected them to be and the college football landscape is changing and is going to lock out BYU (the playoffs). While BYU fans may love the idea of playing elite football teams the Big 12 does not love the idea of having to play BYU. Nothing about BYU would make a football or Big 12 fan excited or want to play them. Even if by some miracle BYU did become a football only member I hope for the Big 12's sake that they put a clause in the contracts that allows them to boot them from the conference once a decent program becomes available for membership. BYU does not deserve the resources or revenue that the Big 12 can provide when there are other programs out there that are far better and stronger.
The rumors have been that both FSU and Clemson have been pushing for Miami to get in if they were to join the Big 12, and the Big 12 wants GT but they were rumored not to be interested. Now if FSU, Clemson, and Miami left I have a feeling more schools from the ACC would be far more inclined to consider joining another conference. Plus, if the Big 12 got some ACC schools then the B1G and the SEC could also push for some ACC schools which would only help the Big 12 get the schools they want. The playoff models being negotiated now are conference champs ranked in the top 6, if not enough champs the remaining slots are filled with the highest ranked teams, or just taking the overall top 4 teams. In these models over the last 10 years the SEC would have had 12 teams in the playoffs, the Big 12 9, and the ACC 1. Revenue distribution for the playoffs is divided among all conferences but the conferences that are actually represented in the games will get substantially more money than the conferences that are not represented.
The Big 12 is in negotiation with ESPN on their tv deals and they are going to be getting around 19.2 million to 20 million plus Big 12 schools can sell their tier 3 rights for however much they can get for them (KU gets 8 million and UT is getting 15 million per year). The ACC is also in negotiations but ESPN offered them around 15-16 million but the ACC rejected this offer and wanted 18 million and this will now go to mediation, this was reported on an ACC blog. So even if the ACC ends up getting what they want they will still be making a lot less than the Big 12 and a great deal less than some of their members' instate SEC rivals (they are projected to get 25-30 million). This all gives credence to these rumors because the ACC will be making a lot less money in tv revenue, they will be shut out of making the huge sums of money gained from the playoffs (which is expected to dwarf what the BCS makes), and the ACC keeps becoming more basketball oriented (indicated by the recent additions of Pitt and Syracuse) and this isolates the more football centric schools.
In regards to FSU, Clemson, Miami, and even GT they need to insure that they are able to keep up with their SEC instate rivals and the ACC is not capable of doing that right now and the only thing that could change that is if ND joined the ACC. Since the playoffs leave a small hole open for ND to take andvantage of and since their NBC contract isn't up until 2015 they won't even consider joining a conference until then, and even then they would probably join the B1G. The B1G is very high on academics, contains many of their rivals, and with the B1G and PAC (who ND's high profile rivals Stanford and USC) having cross conference games starting 2017 it will only further encourage joining the B1G. Bottom line is you don't have to be a genius to see why these schools would want to be part of a more football oriented conference (Swofford himself stated that the Big 12 was a far better football conference than the ACC) and since the SEC will not take a school that is in a state already a part of the SEC this eliminates them as a possibility. The Big 12 offers more and until the ACC can match what the Big 12 can offer, this is highly unlikely, these rumors will persist.
1 year ago on Are Clemson & FSU Leaving the ACC? | May
This is the breakdown of what conferences are making in revenue right now per school each year: the PAC is making 21 million plus a lot more once their network kicks in, the B1G is estimated between 25-30 million including their network, the Big 12 is in negotiations to extend their deals to 2025 and will make each school 20 milion plus whatever a school can get for tier 3 rights, the SEC is projected to make 25-30 million with their new additions, and then the ACC is projected to make 14-16 million in their contract renegotiations. With the new Big 12 deal though there are escalators in the contracts that state with a CCG each school gets an additional 2 million and if the conference expands past 12 the contracts are opened up for renegotiations with fair market value given to the new additions.
The rumors that are floating around now are that FSU and Clemson are considering joining the Big 12 but they want to bring in current rivals/traveling partners. The rumor was that FSU really wants to bring Miami and GT would be a good logical addition to the Big 12 and they have the same reasons for switching conferences as the other schools. If the Big 12 did take FSU, Miami, Clemson, and GT they could also take Louisville, a team that has long been considered to have a guarateed invite, and then the conference would just need #16. ND is what the Big 12 wants the most but I think this is a longshot so they will go for Cincy/Pitt/or some other ACC school. Then you would have 16 teams for a 4 pod system.
Pod 1: Oklahoma and Kansas schools
Pod 2: all the Texas schools
Pod 3: Iowa State, Louisville, WVU, ?
Pod 4: FSU, Miami, Clemson, GT
You limit travel to an absolute minimum, you can still have two divisions just made up of two pods, and you play every school in the conference 2 out of every 4 years. ACC schools would go for this because they would get considerably more money, they would really only have 3 away games that are far away, and they would still maintain their existing rivalries. With these new members the Big 12 would then be making around 25-26 million per team each year plus whatever each school can make on tier 3. The grant of rights are being extended to 2025 so the conference is stable, they have equal revenue sharing, and this conference would be extremely strong in both FB and BB. The gap between the SEC and ACC just keeps widening and the ACC just isn't capable of keeping up with what the SEC is making.
The 20 million dollar exit fee is nothing look at this; 16 million (projected annual earnings of ACC team) X 13 years + 20 million dollar exit fee= 228 million, 26 million (estimated earnings of the new Big 12 teams/not counting tier 3) X 13 years= 338 million. Each ACC school would still make 100 million dollars more during the Big 12 grant of rights period. With the new playoffs the top 4 teams in the rankings go to the playoff, champs only idea has been reported as pretty much dead, and the ACC isn't usually in the top 4 so its not like switching to a tougher conference affects your NC chances all that much but if a team did run the table in this conference you are pretty much going to be ranked in the top 4. Would you ACC fans be for or against this?
1 year ago on Athletic Advisory Committee Formed At Clemson: Time To Get All The Way In | January
FSU and Clemson are considering joining the Big 12 but they want to bring in rivals/traveling partners. It was rumored that FSU really would want to bring Miami and GT would be a good logical addition to the Big 12 and they have the same reasons for switching conferences as the other schools. If the Big 12 did take FSU, Miami, Clemson, and GT and Louisville is basically guaranteed an invite so they could be # 15 then you would just need to find #16. ND is what the Big 12 wants the most but I think this is a longshot so they will go for Cincy/Ptt/or some other ACC school. Then you would have 16 teams for a 4 pod system.
You limit travel to an absolute minimum, you can still have two divisions just made up of two pods, and you play every school in the conference 2 out of every 4 years. ACC schools would go for this because they would get considerably more money, they would really only have 3 away games that were far away, and they would still maintain their existing rivalries.
1 year ago on Update on Big 12 Expansion | March