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@FF_pickups I think to suggest that we have a zero percent chance of winning without Gasol is a bit of an exaggeration. Are the chances better with Gasol over Perkins? Maybe. But for all hi offensive prowess, Pau is not Mark and certainly not a top defensive player. While Perkins may have his shortcomings he is still our defensive anchor and we all know that offensively we are a pretty good team because of these two guys called Kevin and Russ, but we need to shore up our defense. Defense is all about effort and attitude and Perkins does bring that. Also, given that we have improved every year as a team, have lost to the eventual champs in every single playoffs since 2009-2010 (save for last year, due to Westbrook injury), and have had injuries to our "big 3" in the playoffs two years running, you ought to wait and see what we can do when healthy. For all the perceived disappointment this offseason, I can honestly say that we have actually improved. We have added more promising rookies, a solid 3 pt shooter and we also have a line up change to look forward to. Bank on the improvement of our young (under 25) guys and lets see what they bring come October, before we start making unfounded lamentation about how missing out on this or that free agent spells doom and gloom for us.
1 week, 3 days ago on What the Thunder are adding in Anthony Morrow
@Bry Bry I said exactly thi a week ago:
Love to LA, Gasol to OKC and Randle + Perk + fillers to Minnesota.
1 week, 6 days ago on Thursday Bolts – 7.10.14
@Half International Man of Mystery Half Amazing @niimits Fair enough. I was just basing this solely off of their breakdown with the Warriors.
2 weeks, 5 days ago on Friday Bolts – America Edition
@Half International Man of Mystery Half Amazing @niimits They couldn't even get Klay Thompson, I thought no one wants to give them anything because Love is gonna walk anyways?
This may be completely ridiculous, but what would make this scenario work? I feel this could be a win-win for every team involved? If the Lakers, are able to snag another big name free agent off of the free agency this year they become instant contenders.
@ricky_roe @niimits That certainly goes without saying. I am not saying make him the scapegoat for the "failed" (assuming chip or bust) season, but just asking for legitimate reasons for why he isn't considered expendable by some? You only fire him if you can get a better coach of course, but there are decent coaches on the market, heck we are even in a good position to give Fish that offer (even Phil Jackson is after him).
1 month, 3 weeks ago on Spurs vs. Thunder: Game 6 Pregame Primer
Scott Brooks is almost as polarizing a figure to discuss on this board as Westbrook is everywhere. I don't usually play the blame Scott Brooks game, but I do wan't to sincerely ask one of the Brooks faithfuls, why they believe he shouldn't be fired? He was great at developing talent and I don't know if KD, Westbrook, Ibaka, Harden, Reggie develop as much as they did. But now that we are no longer in that development phase, what does he bring to the table? What makes him a better option than and Xs and Os coach? Certainly we are not going to get a Phil, Pop or Spoelstra/Riley level coach, but it would be nice to have some kind of an offensive system. The Spurs make the scrubs work because of a system, we certainly have players of that caliber on our bench, is it not worth a shot to try a coaching change to see if we can get some utility out of our bench? Why is Brooks considered untouchable by some? Sincere question.
New Coach (One can hope) and better bench. If not a new coach then presti needs a to pull a brad pitt from moneyball and get rid of all the "vets" a la fish and butler and force brooks' hand.
@WestCrook trolls are back?
1 month, 3 weeks ago on Thunder vs. Spurs: Game 5 Pregame Primer
where's @ripcitybaby with a picture of a thousand bucks??? LOL
1 month, 4 weeks ago on Spurs vs. Thunder: Game 3 Pregame Primer
@OKC035 About time SOMEONE did!
2 months ago on Thunder vs. Spurs: Game 2 Pregame Primer
HOW THE FUCK DOES RUSS NOT HAVE A SINGLE MUTHAFUCKING FREETHROW IN THIS GAME!!!!!!!!!
@aballer1515 @RipCityBaby mama didn't love him as a child and keeps nagging him to move out her basement. boys gotta let lose somewhere.
@MostJadedGamer @RipCityBaby says the team that passed on JORDAN AND DURANT. LOL
@RipCityBaby @niimits @f5alcon all talk no walk makes ripcity a dull boy. no team in the playoffs makes him a whiny troll.
@RipCityBaby @f5alcon you cant bet with pictures of money boy. go get a job, move out, get some cash and then come back. on second thought maybe dont come back and just GET A LIFE INSTEAD
@RipCityBaby @f5alcon rip city easy to talk from mom's basement. bet you aint seen 5 grand in your life boy.
@RipCityBaby @Legendary_Dork See how nice it is once you take that duck out your mouth
@RipCityBaby @Legendary_Dork You are talking sense again! Congrats! what changed?
@RipCityBaby @niimits LOL sure whatever helps you sleep at night. Must not be much given that you find enough free time to come troll a THUNDER fan site. Must be a sad existence. PS: We have beaten spurs down 0-2 in the WCF before, but I am guessing you only look at things that fit your narrow agenda?
@RipCityBaby @niimits LOL game 4 right? come back IF we don't win 2 before that. otherwise again GTFO of here!
@RipCityBaby glad your team is still in though! Oh wait 2nd ROUND EXIT!!! say what????
GTFO of here
2 months, 1 week ago on Thunder vs. Clippers: Game 6 Pregame Primer
Loving how no one is feeding the trolls. To all the trolls on here:
Y'all get half a bar, efff the haters.
@MostJadedGamer you are an idiot, those guys can't make kd get closer to the basket if he is gonna keep asking for the ball at the top of the key. anyways i guess i'll stop feeding the troll.
2 months, 1 week ago on Thunder vs. Clippers: Game 4 Pregame Primer
@[brooks' fault] @Lost Ones I like to imagine that you are a very sarcastic and funny individual, because there is no way I can wrap my head around the possibility that you are remotely serious with all the comments you make. Bravo for keeping it light sir!
And @Lost Ones I agree keeping Ibaka was easily the better decision, one that I always believed we were going to make.
2 months, 2 weeks ago on Thunder assume control in Game 3, 118-112
people griping about triple double not earned, a lot of his assists turned into free throws, too bad those count, so STFU
2 months, 2 weeks ago on Clippers vs. Thunder: Game 2 Pregame Primer
@OKC035 @[brooks' fault] its not what he is watching, its what he is on. seeing things probably!
@Perky Jerky is just a troll, dont mind him
2 months, 2 weeks ago on Clippers vs. Thunder: Game 1 Pregame Primer
chill out people, we are going to win this game.
2 months, 3 weeks ago on Grizzlies vs. Thunder: Game 5 Pregame Primer
@Old Man Game yes after shooting 16% from the three this series, lets forget four terrible games because he is shooting well tonight! clearly the other four games were a fluke and this game justifies that he is a max player even he IS shooting 36% in the first four games. BRAVO
1 year, 2 months ago on Rockets vs. Thunder: Game 5 Pregame Primer
At least the silver lining is that Skip Bayless can SUCK IT now :/ (Sucks thats the only good thing to look forward to if we lose)
1 year, 2 months ago on Thunder vs. Rockets: Game 3 Pregame Primer
@yarkmu @niimits I don't get the link, but yeah. Basically my only gripe is that vince carter, t mac, heck allen iverson or even steve nash could have been the next kobe bryant had they played for the lakers with phil jackson. In fact, any of those other guys (except maybe iverson) wouldn't have forced shaq out and could have won 6 or 7 rings in the early 2000's. But he get overhyped by his fans for being in the right place at the right time.
1 year, 2 months ago on What now?
@yarkmu an interview*
@yarkmu @niimits accused but not convicted* As much as I hat the guy, if westbrook was in his place I would say that he was never convicted. but yeah I know what you mean! There is a level of arrogance with Kobe, that you just don't see with Russ. For instance Kobe ACTUALLY brought up magic without kareem in a interview a few years ago, as if he has the skills to be compared to magic. he plays hard no doubt, but the guy has no special skills to speak of.
And while I may not admit it, seems like its the same with westbrook, he has always overachieved and played with a chip on his shoulder and that just might be his best attribute.
@yarkmu @niimits yeah, I think it was darnell who said that westbrook is the most polarizing player since lebron. That basically sums it up. people hate to love what he does. Ironically enough I HATE Kobe for the same reasons I love westbrook, but that's how those guys play.
I can't imagine if the media would be so pro beverly had he done this to durant, lebron or kobe.
@OKC035 if its any consolation, I am a chargers fan and I follow the thunder because of westbrook. So basically I have nothing going for me as of right now :/
@senseandsenescence @niimits Alright then. That's something I could agree with. Thing is I am not asking for his head(or life in prison/death penalty in your analogy). I am simply stating that this bs about him being devoid of any fault is stupid. And as a thunder fan I could also claim that this could be similar to 'being related' to him. Thus going back to my original point: yeah he didnt "actively" try to injure westbrook, but he DID act in a reckless fashion given that his actions were not going to have ANY positive result for his team regardless of the outcome. I am not saying that the league should suspend him or that he should retroactively receive a flagrant, but for people here to pretend he shouldn't be held accountable at all is utterly ridiculous.
@Thunder, Love, & Basketball @niimits @BiffMoneyball No:
First: I was just using an example where intent isn't the be all end all argument.
Second: Let's (for arguments sake) agree that I did use murder as an analogy, the punishment that I am calling for is simple acknowledgement that PatBev was at fault.
So even if we assume I was comparing it to murder, the analogy still is:
Blaming patrick beverly for theis injury is similar to accusing a drunk driver for murder/manslaughter.
Lesser punishment for lesser crime, but in both cases intent was not the deciding factor in the outcome, the reckless actions was.
@OKC035 thank you I can't believe lack of "intent" is being regarded as the key point here. There are plenty of examples where recklessness is tantamount to intentional malice, when the perpetrator is fully aware of the potential ramifications of his action.
@Collison4MVP Yeah except the timeout was called after russ went for the steal there! Not to mention his attempt was clean, and he didn't run into jeremy lin. But let's ignore the facts that interfere with your narrative!
@BiffMoneyball @niimits I realize! I saw the second comment, but just wanted to make sure I made it clear. I don't want anyone thinking I would compare something so silly to murder.
@BiffMoneyball @niimits I made it clear that i am not comparing this to murder. The comment is about the argument against this whole "intent" issue. Recklessness in some cases is not that much different from "intent". And I simply want to point that out. Albeit my examples are a bit more extreme than this issue.
To everyone defending Beverly by saying that it wasn't a dirty play:
Let me ask: Do you people think a person who kills someone because they were driving drunk should be considered free of blame and not charged with manslaughter (and potentially murder) because it wasn't their intent to kill anyone?? Does the fact that they were being extremely reckless not warrant some blame and responsibility??
What about in the case of a 'depraved heart murder' where someone fires a bullet in an open crowd. Would you say that the defense is justified in claiming that the person did not "intend" to murder anyone? They were just recklessly firing a bullet in a crowd? Therefore since there was no malicious intent they should be acquitted?
I wanna make it clear that I AM NOT COMPLAINING THAT THIS PLAY WAS AS SEVERE AS THOSE CRIMES. It certainly does not come close to the severity of murder and even thinking that is disgusting, so I most certainly am not implying that.
BUT those example clearly show that this whole PC bs about "to be fair Beverly wasn't intentionally trying to hurt westbrook so its OK" needs to stop. BECAUSE he in full conscience and knowing the potential ramifications of his actions ran into (the knees) a player who was clearly calling a timeout, and for what? Lets say westbrook doesn't get injured there, what did the rockets gain? They weren't getting the ball there!
In a league where people have been bitching about how "hack a howard" takes away from the game, how is this ridiculous play being ignored to this extent?
@johnw1104 @niimits that was my point, this was an unnecessary play AFTER a time out and is being downplayed simply on discretion. If a coach doesn't have the right to play who he wants at his discretion, then players causing others to miss games on unnecessary plays should be fined as well no?? The league opened up this pandora's box themselves, so they should be held accountable.
1 year, 2 months ago on Report: Westbrook could return in weeks, not months
If the NBA can fine the Spurs for sitting starters, should they now fine Pat Bev for us not being able to see Westbrook in the playoffs?
I was hoping for the lakers to miss the playoffs all season, but watching hardens antics now, i would love for us to sweep the rockets
1 year, 3 months ago on Thunder fall in the regular season finale to the Bucks, 95-89
its always a pass to lin with 4 to go HAHA
Harden would have passed that to lin. DAMN wish we had gotten parsons!
@Lambchop @yarkmu @OKC035 he was driving and getting cloberred, while the rest of the team watched, maybe he could have kicked it out a few times (not that he didnt on plenty of the drive) BUT YOU CAN NOT BE SERIOUS if you are implying that russ shouldn't be attacking in a game like this. THE REFS CANT SERIOUSLY LET HIM GET MURDERED ALL GAME
1 year, 4 months ago on Thunder vs. Spurs: Pregame Primer
@Lambchop yeah lets forget the 15 no calls that counted as missed field goals
i would have hoped for some consistency from the refs there, SA definitely gets that call
why is he not driving??
1 year, 4 months ago on Thunder vs. Knicks: Pregame Primer
@OKC035 he has! since that ankle, hope its not because of that
@OKC035 same here! but this is the russ I imagine when i compare him to a prime kobe/mj in terms of heart
1 year, 4 months ago on Lakers vs. Thunder: Pregame Primer
Looks like I should retire from writing novels about westbrook. His games doing the talking now!!!!
1 year, 4 months ago on Thunder vs. Nuggets: Pregame Primer
@Lambchop it was stupid, but you are right lets bash him and take away all the good hes done tonight over it! THATS THE WAY TO GO
@PKBOB @Lost Ones he doesn't care about stats, he is trynna develop his mid range game
1 year, 5 months ago on Wolves vs. Thunder: Pregame Primer
@[censored] Oh I know, I agree with most of the stuff you say (as far as other players go), and its obvious that you love playing devils advocate and so do I, but it makes for a fun back and forth. And since neither of is unequivocally convinced of the others position (as far and russ and harden go) I am sure the discussions will continue.
1 year, 5 months ago on Thursday Bolts – Deadline Edition
Don't worry, I wasn't looking for a response. I went to school with the guy and he is the reason I follow the NBA, so wanted to show my reasons and tell people to give him a break, cuz like it or not he isn't going anywhere so we might as well get used to it.
@[censored] Justin, come on now, its not just about usage, you know that all too well, Russ does make dumb plays from time to time and there is no denying that, but whenever you watch a game you can tell a lot of his possessions do end up in him bringing the ball up the court and handing it off to durant, without durant on the team he would certainly need to learn to be a better playmaker and I am sure given his history that he could improve in that area on a team like the rockets (or even the bulls/cavs) where the onus would be on him.
Conversely I dont know if you have noticed this, I have seen it on multiple ocassions, but Harden would dribble the ball around for about 18 seconds looking to drive, but then hand it off to some one else with under 5 on the clock when he couldn't find his own shot. It worked yesterday because lin converted, but you have to question whether or not he is trying to save his box score there. I was honestly surprised when he chucked that half-courter, I absolutely did not expect him to do something that would hurt his box score (so maybe I am wrong), but you have to agree Harden does tend to protect his boxscore more than russ does or prolly ever would.
I am sure you can argue that, he is just making the smarter play, and while I realize that can be the case at times, but at other times it seems like he is trying to protect his own boxscore, because its gonna be a lost possession for the team either way. I believe that is a matter of heart and wil, russ is very kobe-esque in that sense and always has been. When harden is hot, he is amazing, no doubt, but to me right now he is what KD was three years ago, a great scorer and very efficient, I haven't seen him suffer through a rough shooting start and will his team back (a la KD), or be the only player to show up when the rest of the team is sleep walking (a la russ). Then again, I dont watch a lot of rockets games so maybe you can prove me wrong.
To me, those kind of intangibles don't show up in a box score and cant actually be learned, either you have them or you don't. Russ has been improving as a playmaker (40% ast rate) and has shown improvement in his shooting over his first 4 seasons, maybe he has plateaued, maybe he hasn't we have 4 more years with him to find out. But he certainly has that heart and fire that Kobe and Jordan had, and I believe that is what makes all the difference. At least that's what separates Jordan from the other all time greats such as, Kareem, Wilt, Oscar and Magic in my opinion, in my opinion. I think all those guys were guys were better players than him, but he had a fire (and a mid range game) that made him who he was. I see flashes of that in russ (and maybe its rubbing off on KD too, because he has developed into that kind of a player as well), but not yet in Harden. That to me gives Russ a leg up.
We don't have to put Harden down to see the value of russ to this team, but at the same time we can't praise Harden at Russ's expense. They play different roles on different teams, usg rate alone does not justify the comparison in my opinion, simply because it takes away the growth and learning aspects out, which I believe are tremendous confounds when you are comparing two players under the age of 25.
@If that's what you say, bruh @CDNBallJunkie @Legendary_Dork This whole "win now" BS is getting old and tired, the lakers and the spurs dynaties weren't that long ago, THEY STILL DO WORK in this league.. Boston was in "win-now" mode in 2008, WE ARE NOT, our big three are 24 years old, with the four lottery picks we could literally have our 7 best players (hypothetical based on being lottery picks) all be under 25, and locked up for at least 3 -4 years,WHY EXACTLY DO YOU THINK WE NEED TO WIN NOW?????
1 year, 5 months ago on Thunder at Rockets: Pregame Primer
@If that's what you say, bruh @CDNBallJunkie @Legendary_Dork you don't go all out for one year and let harden walk at the end of the year, thats not how you build a dynasty, we have a big three of westbrook, durant and ibaka and they all do different things and we have all the assets in the world to build around them and contend for the rest of this decade, unless you SERIOUSLY believe we were gonna be better with a big three of harden, durant and westbrook (54 FGA/game) and everyone else getting 2 shots a game, i dont know what you are complaining about....
@CDNBallJunkie @Legendary_Dork we didnt have 80 mil to give harden, we are still a top 2 seed in the west, and still have two lottery picks on the bench and two in the upcoming draft... I am sorry, but we got much more in return than harden was worth to this team...
@CDNBallJunkie you people are idiots, we chose a young defensive big, over a redundant player whose skills almost completely overlap (and were overshadowed) with (by) westbrook and durants.
@If that's what you say, bruh that the kinda of bs calls, he has been gift wrapped all season (hopefully) should not translate to FTAs in the playoffs.... kinda hard to be efficient for someone with a fairly average eFG% to be good without that kinda charity... when their best skill in efficiency.
@Lambchop @Legendary_Dork A point guard who is also top 5 in assists and having a career high in assist percentage... when the best shooter in the game is passing up shots voluntarily, blaming the point guard IS idiotic!
@AIaska oh trust me, there are plenty of them here...
Where are all the Harden apologists now?? Tell me he is gonna get all of these calls in the play offs!?!?!?!!?
@OKC035 hes not harden, thats why :/
@[censored] yes having them get twice as many rebounds was ok, but russ going under a screen was the ONLY reason we are down!!!!!
1 year, 5 months ago on Heat vs. Thunder: Pregame Primer
@[censored] NO ONE is rebounding, I guess thats also because of hero ball according to you??? that is the same reason we lost the last game!! do you actually comprehend what you are watching or just look for things that support your biased opinions???
@[censored] you are supposedly a russ fan, yet you are whining about 2-5 taking jumpers, more than 0-4 durant?? dude quit trolling....
@MJOKC @[censored] justin logic: if it doesnt show up in the box score its not relevant to the game
@[censored] yeah too bad they dont keep stats on bullshit calls or else you would join the club too!!
OMG the heat are UP BY THREE POINTS in the first quarter, everybody panic lets blow it up, we can never win this game or the finals!
@f5alcon I must have looked at an older one, but .001 is not the same as .1
1 year, 5 months ago on Tuesday Bolts – 2.12.13
@Lambchop I am saying that he is leading the league in FTAs in his first season starting.
@Keith00 @f5alcon Since I haven't seen him in the playoffs as a first option, yes I am quite literally making things up. If you believe he can hold his FTAs up in the playoffs that's fine, we will just have to wait and see.
@f5alcon Team free throw attempts, aren't quite the same thing. Both teams will be making less free throws, so the point differential should hold up. When talking about an individuals performance, however, if FTAs are his biggest money maker, he is gonna suffer in the play offs.
@f5alcon I am talking about this season alone. His role on the thunder was different, so that shouldn't factor into this in my opinion.
Harden has an average eFG%, which is lower than both Wade and Kobe's (notice one has injury issues and the other is 34). All of you guys saying Harden is better on offense than either one of them, need to lay off the drugs. Unless you honestly believe that he can average 1.1 FTA for every 2 shots in the playoffs, get his TS number out of here. Its funny to see people rave about a guys offense, when his BIGGEST strength is getting charity from the refs.
@[censored] @MJOKC nvm found it:
1 year, 5 months ago on Warriors vs. Thunder: Pregame Primer
@[censored] @MJOKC didnt realize they kept stats on that as well??
@[censored] @see-mittens i think thats what he meant by its favored us this far
@[censored] thats prolly why we are losing
@[censored] any more russ hate good sir?
1 year, 5 months ago on Grizzlies vs. Thunder: Pregame Primer
@[censored] last i checked it WAS working thank you.
@Lost Ones @[censored] hardens "above average eFG" but otherwise spectacularly efficient offence makes up for everything.
@[censored] you should stay off the forum, if you are just gonna troll... others people are trynna support their team at least
@[censored] apparently the haters still bringing it up do? nvm the fact that he has been playing well and we were killing them with him in the first half
@OKC035 Yeah makes no sense whatsoever! We have to blame him somehow!!
@IWasGervin @[censored] No no he ASSURED me he is a westbrook fan and usually sides with westbrook!!!!
You cant possibly be implying thats not ture????
@[censored] That's fair enough. Just wanted to point out that to some of us, his situation/growth seems to be on track. I am a firm believer of the value of learning (that may just be all those development drills on nba 2k13 talking), and do believe that making proclamations about his career after 5 seasons is a bit premature. That said, I might be wrong, but we are just gonna have to wait and see.
I just thoroughly annoys me when people make it seem like they KNOW he is never gonna improve in certain aspects of his game.
1 year, 5 months ago on Thunder go cold against the Lakers, 105-96
@[censored] When you actually interpret the numbers in a rational context (which is the whole point of quantifying behavior and collecting data), you can see he is coming along just fine.*
@[censored] fair enough, thats why i hardly comment when i am on my phone.
And again I suppose after we cut through all the BS we can both agree, that its just a matter of differing expectation from Westbrook. I do believe he can flourish in that Rose/Kobe role. More so Kobe given the similar playing style and inefficiency, but when you tack on the fact that he is at least ok differing to Durant, something Kobe wasnt willing to continue doing with shaq you can understand why Kobe seems to dislike him so much on the court and has allegedly tried disrupting his and durants chemistry.
Ultimately, I guess I would like to end with reveling in the fact that the front office seems to share my mindset and Westbrook will get the chance to continue to progress the way I hope for him to. Feel free to be negative about him, but just know at the end of the day simply throwing numbers to down on him is unfair, just like you told me looking at james harden without including his FT making/getting ability is unfair. When you actually interpret the numbers in a rational context (which is the whole point of quantifying behavior and collecting data).
@ThunderChick2010 @[censored] haha i am just trynan keep him on his toes and get him to finish what he started. he tends to do this, when i am responding reasonably and calmly.
Thank you for abandoning that thread again but here ya go:
For him to continue the trend of improvement in his eFG%, for him to start trusting players other than durant (at least early in the game) and for him to start picking his spots a little better while still continuing to do his thing in the fourth.
I am sure there is a better correlation between Westbrook's performance and the thunders performance, than there is between Durant's and the teams. It is most likely because Durant is usually more consistent, win of loss, but I guess to sum it up the goal is to allow him to develop better consistency on his own pace. Since, that I believe is the key to this teams success and our only hope of establishing a dynasty.
@[censored] Thank you for abandoning the thread yet again, but to answer your question:
@[censored] For him to continue the trend of improvement in his eFG%, for him to start trusting players other than durant (at least early in the game) and for him to start picking his spots a little better while still continuing to do his thing in the fourth.
@[censored] I know he shoots too much and that also annoys me at times, all I am saying is I don't mind it because I can actually step back from a game to game basis and see the long term goal and expectation for him. Luckily it seems like the front office has the same idea in mind, since they have obviously given him the green light.
And luckily nothing we say here is gonna affect that decision.
@[censored] Again bash him if you will. He HAS improved as a shooter over his first four years as demonstrated with a stat you love to use. Whether he has already reached his ceiling as a shooter remains to be seen, but he has improved and I am wiling to wait and see if this trend continues and this year is an outlier, or if you are right and he is simply regressing to the mean.
Its really a classic case of glass half empty or glass half full. And I suppose to each his own.
@[censored] His eFG% has gone up every one of his last four seasons. And he finished last season with 48.1% (close enough to Kobe's career average and Harden's this season) This year he has regressed a bit yes, but if I am not wrong he also started last season slow. The value we give to his eFG on this season is subjective and will vary on a persons bias towards or against Westbrook. But for a stats guy I am sure you can appreciate a 7% increase in eFG from his first season to his fourth?
@[censored] Finally something I can actually agree with (sort of). He takes too many of them yes, and my point of view (hope) is that as he improves his offensive awareness, he will get better at picking his spots (a la kobe). He is a young player and I don't believe it is necessary to crucify him over shot selection while we are still sitting at or near the top of the conference (I would rather we are complaining about bone headed decisions than heart and intensity). I am sure it is different for everyone, but I am one of those people who truly hates losing/failing at anything and I keep going at it until I have messed up in every single way and learned enough to finally succeed (and so far in my life this has been a very successful approach for me) . I believe the same to be the case with westbrook and don't think it is fair to impede a work in progress when the team is also improving with him. (and not in spite of him as most people hold)
@[censored] I am not talking low percentage shot for westbrook. I am talking low percentage shot in general (ie for any player). Unless it has been set in stone that because westbrook has been terrible at that shot over his first five years, there is 0 probability that he will ever improve.
@[censored] So the answer is to simply look at his perceived strengths from his first five seasons in the league and only develop those?
Glad the front office doesn't have that mindset.
If he is gonna learn to shoot that shot consistently, he would obviously need to take it consistently. (When he has good shooting night, it IS because that shot is falling and its damn near impossible to beat us when that is the case.)
Not to mention, those shots make defenses respect him more and play closer to him, allowing more penetration and ball movement.
@[censored] I haven't said he is great. I simply stated that he is learning, and if he gets better at them I don't see the problem.
You are still not addressing the main point of my comment. Which is, why is the shot considered low percentage?
@[censored] Again that is fair enough, but strictly speaking from a shooting perspective, considering the defense is also not fully set on a pull up shot what makes it a low percentage look?
Getting a fouls/offensive rebound doesn't directly effect the percentage of the shot itself?
@[censored] defending his proficiency*
@[censored] I realize that, and I am certainly not depending his proficiency at that shot.
I am just wondering why people consider it a bad shot? Its usually not a contested shot. I just don't understand why it is a low percentage shot?
@ justin since that previous thread got abandoned, here is my response again.
I dont think his general style is the problem, he is stll learning when to take over, and it is apparent that unlike kobe kobe ten years ago he is willing to defer to durant. Since you were bringing up Kobe yesterday, i think westbrook can develop into kobe (he is generally the primary ball handler on the lakers) except he already does the one thing people had been blaming kobe for all season which is to pass more and defer to other players. (for now its mostly durant, there have been flashes of him trusting martin more and I do believe that will get better once we know if martin is here to stay).
I am not sure on the numbers, but it seems like westbrook gets the same criticism for missing shots in the clutch that kobe was getting early in his career (against utah for instance), but we have to appreciate the heart and the willingness of the guy to step up and take those shots.
I know people hate those elbow pull-ups, but I dont honestly understand why, they are usually not contested shots. If a player can develop the proper rythm and mechanics to pull up and drain those, more power to him. And what better time to do it then during the regular season, when you are sitting comfortably near the top of the conference??
@[censored] @MJOKC @Lost Ones I dont think his general style is the problem, he is stll learning when to take over, and it is apparent that unlike kobe kobe ten years ago he is willing to defer to durant. Since you were bringing up Kobe yesterday, i think westbrook can develop into kobe (he is generally the primary ball handler on the lakers) except he already does the one thing people had been blaming kobe for all season which is to pass more and defer to other players. (for now its mostly durant, there have been flashes of him trusting martin more and I do believe that will get better once we know if martin is here to stay).
1 year, 5 months ago on Thunder vs. Lakers: Pregame Primer
@[censored] @MJOKC @Lost Ones because a player never actually matures and learns better decision making as his career goes on. I am starting to think all the haters are absolutely right, no nab player has every gotten smarter after his first five season (plus three all star selections) in the league. We HAVE to trade westbrook if we ever want to win!
lets hear the westbrook hate, his shooting CLEARLY lost us the game!
@OKC035 @[censored] he is trolling
@[censored] Ok so Harden is better than average in eFG, and high in TS because of his incredible ability to draw fouls. Is drawing fouls a sustainable way to maintain his efficiency?
Also as far as playmaking goes, what could I look at there? It does seem like rockets assisted fgs drop with him on the floor, but thats to be expected with a star.
1 year, 5 months ago on TGR 89: Swears and snubs
@[censored] Just like Harden had westbrook and durant last season. I was talking about projecting Manu's numbers to hardens usage and PT numbers to get a fair comparison.
Also why not compare him to players like curry, roy (when he had knees), granger, josh smith, ray allen, maybe even rose?
@[censored] Fair enough, what ISNT fair though is the fact that you have used Kobe Bryant and Russell Westbrook as your comparisons (westbrook i can understand) but neither of those players are know for statistical efficiency.
How does harden off the bench compare to Manu? (a more fair comparison in my opinion) How would manu project to play if he was in hardens role this year?
@[censored] I realize i am just wondering, why he is touted as an extremely efficient player, and how that would translate on a thunder team where he would certainly not get as many FT attempts as he does in houston (which is also aided by their pace)
@[censored] is an eFG of 48.6 considered good? I realize westbrooks is lower, but where does it rank in terms of known good shooters?
@[censored] isnt eFG calculated to include 3 point shots and free throws? so i am just wondering what else outside of free throws is contributing to it, since his FG and 3pt FG is on the lower side?
@[censored] Also as far as his effect on the thunder goes, what categories have we gotten worse in since he left? and what are we better in?
@[censored] whats RAPM? and what else adds to his efficiency, outside of the obvious league leading FTAs?
What stats do people use to justify that the rockets are better with harden on the floor?
@[censored] @MJOKC I dont understand why people are still questioning this trade?? the team is playing just as well if not better. martin has replaced hardens production and we are set for the future with those picks and the young talent we got back. If maynor had gotten back to being the best backup point in the league we wouldn't miss harden atll.
he is having a great season yes, but considering he is shooting worse from the 3 pt range than westbrook, his efficiency must be coming from the line and he certainly would not be leading the league in FTs playing next to durant.
heck the guy is the only rocket with a minus in the +/- toniight with the rockets up 10 against new orleans.
lets not get carried away.
1 year, 5 months ago on Thunder vs. Kings: Pregame Primer
@GervinReincarnated so another nine posts before you say something right?
1 year, 6 months ago on Thunder vs. Warriors: Pregame Primer
@justin_mia yeah... i dont knwo what he is doing!?
@wearetougherthanthis @niimits @CLthunderfan yeah, i dont know if we need another prospect center, we need a bench pg to bolster that second unit (another bledsoe/russ) would be perfect on a rookie salary!
@CLthunderfan oh yeah, knew there was a catch! well championship and fourth pick then? ,aybe we take another russ :p
can you guys imagine if we won it all and won the lottery??? its crazy this is even a possibility!!
@Tequila or Failure Exactly what i had been thinking for all of last year, when people were having the harden vs. ibaka debate. with kd and russ we have two great iso players and they are both willing to pass (they can be better) so harden was a bit redundant and the return for paying him a max contract was certainly not worth it. I realize schedule wise we have had some lucky breaks so far, but we are just playing better basketball.... and ibaka over harden was a no brainer to me, especially considering what we got back for him...
@OKC035 @1 Knee 4 Points 5 Rebounds 35 Million Dollars exactly!! he is not penetrating and kicking out, he stands around for 10 seconds trying to get a shot up and then passes with like 2 seconds left on the clock..
@OKC035 I know, i mean its smart to pass for a better shot, but both times he did so with about 2 seconds on the clock, which makes me question his motive...
harden always seems to pass with the shot clock running out, thats the third time this game... looks like someone values their efficiency!!
@Lambchop This is one critic of russ i can't ignore. and while yes russ should take more blame for not getting martin involved, i dont think *not being a pg* is an excuse for anyone to ignore a hot player, especially is durant is trying to get to lebrons playmaking level. so in that sense i feel royce's analysis is fair.
1 year, 6 months ago on Thunder coast over the Clippers, 109-97
@justin_mia @Lost Ones like i said, talent wise i dont see them as any worse than the warriors in terms of talent, so in that regard they are under performing....
@justin_mia @Lost Ones yes, if they weren't good on offence they would be worse, but you have no true evidence to support the claim that they *would* be worse on offence is all
@justin_mia @Lost Ones easy to claim what they would or wouldnt be, i dont see them as being any worse than the warriors in terms of talent. and lately hardens been looking more for his as well...
@justin_mia @Lost Ones glad thats helping them win
@justin_mia @Lost Ones tell that to the rockets
westbrooks learning!!!! love it!!
1 year, 6 months ago on Thunder vs. Nuggets: Pregame Primer
@justin_mia 18 points on 18 shots! guess who is getting the max for that?
1 year, 6 months ago on Saturday Morning Cartoons: Ru$sell
@justin_mia @Lost Ones @MJOKC Fair enough, i feel he is playing better than noah or varejao, who people seem to be willing to sell the farm for, and considering he is 24 and has a higher ceiling i wouldnt be surprised if there would be teams willing to pay him!
@justin_mia @Lost Ones @MJOKC Keyword there "at the time" I accept that logically speaking you are right in your statement. However, i believe someone calling ibaka a steal would argue that ibaka WOULD probably have gotten a max after this season in the free agency, unless you dont think any team in the nba would be willing to pay him even after what he is doing thus far?
@justin_mia @MJOKC I dont believe anyone on this string has attributed any statement to you or made any sweeping "factual statements". I simply pointed out something i have seen you do and have commented on in the past and asked how you could argue against someone doing the same thing to harden?
My reason for giving westbrook a free pass and not harden one, is simply because westbrook is on my team and harden is not. we are fans after all...
@justin_mia @MJOKC I dont remember saying that either, but to be dead honest, i loved the harden trade for us and yes in a similar trade I most certainly would have taken a martin/terry type over paying harden a max. That said he is a smart player, who I sincerely beleive is hyped way too much, fittingly enough playing alongside another overhyped phenom in lin.
@MJOKC @justin_mia I realize, I could say I am the same way. I am just surprised that, having seen his usual comments on westbrooks poor games, I am surprised he is defending harden here!
@justin_mia @MJOKC That was just for justin*
@justin_mia @MJOKC As do I and some others when you do JUST the same thing with westbrook.... I for one love seeing harden do poorly just so people can stop throwing stats in my face about how harden is better than westbrook because of his efficiency!!
@justin_mia @Old Man Game They*
1 year, 6 months ago on Nets vs. Thunder: Pregame Primer
@justin_mia @Old Man Game We dont always whine about refs, but when we do it was because the obviously impacted the game.
@justin_mia You dont have a box score? yet your responses are usually backed by stats? (I realize russ is not gonna be liked by stat heads, cuz the most important thing he brings to a game (energy and a never give up attitude) will never show up on a box score.) So i suppose troll on!
1 year, 7 months ago on Thunder vs. Heat: Pregame Primer
@justin_mia I do wanna add, I am in no way claiming that the refs cost us the game, good teams overcome reffing. BUT to point at the box score and FTAs and say we got the benefit of the whistle is just ignorant, as far as this game went. We dont have miami's shooters and obviously had to take it to the hole a lot more, therefore we got more shooting fouls.
@justin_mia Like I said we didnt deserve to win, we need rotations or better set plays.... i will still take westbrooks energy everyday... and yes on the road, when the other team just has to flop to get the ball back it is discouraging and CAN cause a team to lose momentum especially when they cant keep up with the better team
Justin you are an idiot, how many times did we lose possession or lose momentum, because of stupid calls????? Does your box score give us a stat on that??? Not to mention most of the calls we got were make up calls.... Yes we didnt deserve to win this game and yes russ couldn't get anything to fall, but you are an idiot if you are gonna blame russ for this loss
@alvarex Same here!! I have always loved his intensity and determination to shatter expectations at every level!!
2 years, 3 months ago on DT Mailbag: Alpha issues