Shingo
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The only thing we got from that Nathan is that your sanity is in serious doubt. Wouldn't it be amazing to spend just one day inside Nathan's head?
>> Apart from the deaf and blind, everyone with a shred of awareness knows that a great wave of isolationism has washed over America
Yes, let's set aside the fact that the US is involved in conflicts in no less that 8 countries, with the isolationist in chief, Obama, adding at least an extra 3 or 4 since he came to office. And let's also set aside that the redirection in South East Asia. Ignoring all that, it's easy to see how Nathan comes to the conclusion is the great wave of isolationism that has washed over America
>> They are indeed, because the media has hammered that into the people endlessly. They are now pickled in that idea. It has been accepted and embraced as true. But it is a lie.
This is truly mind boggling coming from the same useful idiot that tells us week in, week out, to ignore all the intelligence reports on Iran's nuclear program and listen to what the media is hammering us to believe .
>> For a country that barely notices 50,000 driving deaths every year, 4,500 battle casualties across eight years is not catastrophic, it is not even a significant worry.
You hear that folks? According to our brave laptop bombardier living in his parent's basement, the lack of Americans dying in overseas wars is proof we are not involved in enough wars. Again, let's ignore that the 100 thousand plus wounded US servicemen or the fact that one US veteran dies every 65 minutes from suicide.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/01/military-suicides-us-veterans_n_2602602.html
No big deal according to Nathan.
>> Nor can a country with trillion dollar deficits most years, reasonably claim that it is being bankrupted by two fight which between 2001 to 2011 consumed just 3.5% of federal spending.
One has to wonder where Nathan gets his figures, given that the Iraq war, when in 2008,Nobel Laureate economist, Joseph Stiglitz, estimated that if the US had withdrawn completely from Iraq by Jan 2008, the total US liability for that war alone would have been 3 trillion. That's closer to 10% of the federal spending between 2001 to 2011 on one failed war alone.
The US did not withdraw till 2012.
Afghanistan will be at least that much again. But let's ignore that too.
What crazies like Nathan can't even come to terms with is the fact that the US hasn't even begin to pay for these wars. They have been run up on the federal credit card, which has not only been maxed out, but has had to have the debt ceiling raised at least half a dozen times since 2001.
Now consider that the most ambitious and severe plan to cut 1 trillion from the federal budget (Paul Ryan's) would have required 20 years to implement, it's clear that the federal government has no hope in hell of ever paying off that debt.
>> By any objective criteria America is not exhausted.
Yeah right, that would explain why the US force are no longer able to mobilize anything close to the 100 thousand US troops the DOD has estimates it would need to bring Syria under control were the US to invade.
>> To the contrary, the Iraq war, by defending US vital national interests, strengthened her.
Wow, can someone fill me in on what planet Nathan has been living on since 2003? The US not only left Iraq completely empty handed, but as the Saudi Leadership said in a Wikileaks cable to the US, they handed Iraq on a golden platter to Iran. Now if Nathan thinks that this has served US national interests and strengthened her, then he clearly is insane.
>> Even the idea of a Syrian no fly zone or safe havens, to stem the slaughter, so far, of eighty thousand people, is greeted with alarm.
Not so much alarm and awareness of the absolute idiocy of such a plan. Russia have already laid down the red line about such a move. They are shipping S300 anti aircraft missiles to Syria as we speak, and moving more naval ships into the Mediterranean and the naval base in Syria.
The public is also cynical about the claims that the Assad regime is to blame for the slaughter and who it is we're supposed to be protecting when the rebels are dominated by Al Qaeda foreign fighters with a taste for human organs, a fattish for cutting off heads, using Sarin gas as well as suicide bombing. Even Israel's leaders are openly contemplating whether it would be preferable to keep Assad in power.
But Nathan knows better apparently.
>> It also supports his interest in Iran not being hampered in acquiring a nuclear arsenal.
Poor Nathan. He knows how pathetic a failure his arguments are so the best he can resort to doing these days is throwing eggs at Professor Walt and then speeding off in his car to get drunk behind the high school bleachers.
>> e has not refused to negotiate with the PA over these issues. So they are not PRE-conditions. They are goals.
Don't be stupid. How can not negotiating with Hamas be a goal?
>> Even if they are requirements for an agreement, they are not preconditions
No they are pre conditions, because he refuses to discuss them or have discussions under those terms.
>> The discussion about preconditions has been about negotiations between the PA and Israel.
If the PA becomes a unity government, then he will refuse to negotiate.
>> I've recently read that Netanyahu has stopped all construction in the West Bank for a month or so.
So what? Does a rapist get leniency for giving up his habbit for one month, but vowing to start again?
I don;t know what you are getting at. Nothing I have said contradicts your argument.
I agree that the Israelis never consider the Saudi Arab Peace Initiative. In fact, Sharon called it a threat.
I also agree that the Israelis have never presented any peace plan, or borders. What they have mind they don't want anyone to share because it's so sadistic.
So what did I state that you have a problem with?
>> My original comment was about how the Arabs regimes have exploited the Palestinian conflict to oppress its people
Yawn. They were making the same argument about the Jews in the 1930s. You are simply regurgitating hasbra, almost verbatim from hasbra talking points.
You're not fooling anyone.
The conflict with Israel was started by Israel in 1982 when it invaded. Hizbollah did not exist at the time. They weer created to kick Israel out of Lebanon, because the Lebanese military was clearly unable to do.
Resisting occupation is perfectly normal.
I am not doing any such thing. I am pointing out that this claim that Hezbollah are a foreign entity is BS. Hezbollah members are Lebanese nationals who live in villages in Southern Lebanon. They are Lebanese, not Iranians.
They are helped by Iran the same way Israel is helped by the US. That doesn't make them a state within a state.
You simply refuse to apply the same standard to both sides.
>> Agree that Assad is fighting Al Qaeda foreign mercenaries
Right. While the demonstrations began as a legitimate complaint against Assad, they were highjacked by the same jihadists that hijacked the Lybian revolt. It's not Syrians and it's no moderates who are doing the fighting anymore.
>>So its ok for Italy and Ireland to create a Catholic Milicia in NY and Boston since there are Catholics there!?
The Jews created Jewish militias in Palestine. Those were sunded by Jews in the US. Do you have a problem with that?
It's your logic that is absurd because it is so deeply covered in layers of hypocrisy.
>> 1. Hizballah is a Shi'a Islamic militant group (religious based)
Lebanese Shiite group.
>> 2. Hezbollah was conceived by Muslim clerics and funded by Iran (a foreign country)
So what? Israel is funded by the US. Ddes that make the IDF a US proxy?
>> 3. its forces were trained and organized by a contingent of Iranian Revolutionary Guards
Israeli forces were originally trained by he British and today they are trained by the US.
Does that make the IDF a fifth column?
>> 4. The organization has been called a state within a state
By Israel. Israel has been described as the greatest threat to world peace by the majority of the world
>> Why Hizbollah is using its Milicia in support of Assad and against the Syrian people
What rubbish. Assab is fighting foreign rebels, who have aligned themselves with Al Qaeda in Iraq.
Netanyahu has already imposed prior conditions, so the claim that he is only interested in negotiations without prior conditions is complete BS.
His prior conditions are
1. East Jerusalem is non negotiable
2. He will not negotiate with Hamas
3. He will not negotiate with a PA/Hamas unity government
4. Whatever Palestinian state emerges must be demilitarzed
And so on.
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hezbollah
yes I know who Hezbollah is.
Try reading your own link.
"Hezbollah was conceived by Muslim clerics and funded by Iran following the Israeli invasion of Lebanon, and WAS PRIMARILY FORMED TO OFFER RESISTANCE TO THE ISRAELI OCCUPATION"
"Hezbollah, Arabic Ḥizb Allāh (“Party of God”), also spelled Hezbullah or Hizbullah , militia group andpolitical party that first emerged as a faction in Lebanon following the Israeli invasion of that country in 1982."
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/264741/Hezbollah
No, Gaza got bombed because bombing Gaza is an Israeli pastime.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Peace/recogn.html
>> 3. Hizbollah is a strictly Shit organization created by Iran
False. They are a former Lebanese group that was former to resist Israel's 18 year murderous occupation of Lebanon. They are now part of the ruling coalition in Lebanon.
Please go back to your hasbara mother ship and download some new talking points
>> 1. You hold an election for your people and not for others
Like I said, why would the Gazan's want to invite Israel to bomb them again for voting the wrong way.
>> 2. The PA is former FATAH who fought Israel since 1948
No, thye exahcnged letters of mutual reogniztion in 1993/
@Adjicin >> After 50 years, the rest of the world has kind of stopped believing that the Palestinians are willing to pay much of anything for statehood.
That's if by the "rest of the world", you mean Manhattan and Beverly Hills. The rest of the world knows that the Patagonians have already given up claims to 50% of the territory they were allotted by the 1947 UN partition under the 1993 agreement between Arafat and Rabin.
>> They championed instead the destruction of the Israeli state.
As anyone would against a state that was persecuting them and stealing their land.
>> Palestine is fast losing importance among peoples everywhere else.
Again, you are speaking for 1% of the US population.
>> It seems Islamic people everywhere have a new imperative not to compromise, but rather to pursue realignment of the state through protests - peaceful or otherwise, and through overpopulation.
Wrong. See above.
@Ben Enki >> Give up on Jerusalem and you will get more of the sprasely inhabited West Bank land.
Why do that when the Palestinian already have a legal right to both?
>> But the Jordan river hills need to be Israel to provide air defense for the state.
Rubbish. That's just an excuse to cut off the Palestinian state from the rest of the Arab world, as well as deny it access to what would be it's bread basket. In this day and age of missiles and fighter aircraft, there is no need for such buffer zones.
>> Give Jewish settler rights to become PA citizens,
The PA has already agreed to that.
@dahveed323 >> Arab country after arab country has kicked out residents they call Palestinian
Israel was the first to do so it, 800,000 to be exact, though they have been doing it since 1948 non stop. The reason Jordan became 50% Palestinian was because the Palestinians expelled by Israel fled there.
>> Israel should annex everything except Gaza and make all the residents there legal residents and just wait for the artifiial, transplanted hashemite rulers of Jordan to fall and a palestine be declared in what is now called Jordan.
Why not?
@Jossef >> Mr. Mausher, did Hamas accept the Saudi Arab Peace Initiative? The answer is no!
False. They said they would agree to it so long as the Palestinians accepted by referendum. So did Hezbollah.
So Mr. Mausher is right to blame the US for sabotaging it and for Israel for rejecting it.
Get educated.
>> 1. Hamas was only elected to govern in Gaza and have refused to hold new election since 2007
Actually it was 2006, and they have no reason to hold elections seeing as the results of the land elections were not even recognized by the PA or Israel.
In fact, Israel bombed Gaza to punish them for voting the wrong way.
>> 2. The PA is the only representative of the Palestinians
The PA was created by Israel.
>> 3. Hizbollah was only created to represent the interests of Iran
False. Hizbollah is a Lebanese resistance group that is now part of the Lebanese ruling coaltion.
You're the ignorant one.
>> The Arabs Muslim including Hamas are NOT interested in peace
Yeah, that explains the Arab Peace plan which recognizes Israel and normalizes relations with Israel - which Israel have rejected. You Israeli apologists are masters of projection.
>> Hamas is in the final stage segregating boys and girls in primary schools in accordance with Sharia.
Whereas Israel is segregating men and women as well as Jews and non Jews.
Israel is apartheid.