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2 years, 10 months ago on Evidence that Trayvon Martin Doubled Back
@voiceofinsanity nice Tupac quote lol!
If I understood you correctly you insinuated that as long as Zimmerman felt his life was in danger then the killing was justified. That is incorrect. His feelings would have to be justifiable to a reasonable level otherwise the "hair-brain" idea I threw out would be perfectly legal and there are people out there crazy enough to act on it!
So, if the threshold lies simply with what a person feels then I could think in my mind right now that you want to kill me! So, I'll go purchase a gun come to your house and shoot you, and then say it was self defense because I believed in my mind that you wanted to kill me!
Who do you think you are fooling with that nonsense? ROFLMAO!
Aint that the truth! I country has sure gone to hell! Don't you miss 1955 when good upstanding folk like Roy Bryant could kill a black kid and not be convicted for it?
but sorry it's 2012 and that sucks for you lol!
@mattstate @voiceofinsanity @mizraven @Kanzaz same could be said for John. He said I believe the one on the bottom was wearing red.
He didn't the one on the bottom was wearing red and he was getting his head bashed into the concrete while the one on top was covering his mouth!
@mattstate @voiceofinsanity You are absolutely right. In Florida it doesn't matter who started. Even if Zimmerman started the altercation and Trayvon was simply defending himself if Trayvon inflicted so much force on Zimmerman that Zimmerman reasonably believed his life was in danger his use of lethal force is warranted and lawful.
However, I think he's going to run into serious problems proving to a jury that he reasonably believed his life was in danger when the man didn't even go to the hospital that night after supposedly being beat so badly he was nearly unconscious I think he's going to have a hard time getting the jury to believe that he shot Trayvon point blank range while Trayvon was on top of him and did not get any of Trayvon's blood on him. As a matter of fact Trayvon's body just disappeared and then reappeared next to him face downa moment after the shot was fired like a fucking video game glitch. I know I wouldn't believe that, though some on this site would.
@skeptykal_uv_everthang John was not pretty sure. He says he believed that it was so.
The gorlfriend's story is backed up by phone records, and the fact that even the verbal exchange as told by the girlfriend vs. Zimmerman let's me know that someone is lying. If she was lying she could have juiced the story up a lot more than what was told. Zimmerman has everything to lose here, so he has motive to lie!
You wrote "if blood spatter didnt match up. wouldnt she charge murder 1. "
Um I'm going to say no, because it would be very difficult to get a conviction. The state would have to prove that the murder was premeditated. This murder was not premeditated and everyone knows that.
@mattstate @voiceofinsanity @mizraven @Kanzaz How about the anonymous witness who said he WITNESSED the two arguing and he believed that the person screaming was the younger boy!
There are all sorts of conflicts here.
@voiceofinsanity @mattstate For the record, I believe John and I believe everyone in the case except Zimmerman.
John's statement neither exonerates Zimmerman nor incriminates Trayvon because we still don't know who threw the first blow or who initiated what.
We have two conflicting stories between Trayvon's girlfriend and Zimmerman and bottom line I believe the forensics (blood splatter) is going to play a huge role in the prosecution's case. This is why I believe they went for murder 2.
@voiceofinsanity @mattstate @mizraven @Kanzaz
Did John see who threw the first blow? Um no,
And Mary Cutcher is not the only witness that saw Zimmerman get up from on top of Trayvon right AFTER the gun went off! There was an anonymous male too who says he saw it.
Your description of Republicans is spot on. I find it fascinating that the Conservatives have created a fictional Barack Obama and they rail against instead of the real one because the real one doesn't fit their narrative of what a black man suppose to be.
They think an black man is suppose to be a thug, stupid (can't speak without a teleprompter), uneducated, liar, lazy, unprofessional, and out of control.
Since Obama fits none of these characterizations they simply make up an Obama who does lol!
@mattstate @Kanzaz @rrrrottenapples @voiceofinsanity Oh.. I almost fell out of my seat with that one! lol!
@Kanzaz @rrrrottenapples @voiceofinsanity wait there is a tape?
@mattstate @voiceofinsanity @mizraven @Kanzaz It was dark John could have been mistaken.
@VinBona @mizraven @mattstate @voiceofinsanity @Kanzaz
Black males generally don't think to call the police in situations like that. I should know because I am one. There is a distrust in the black community of law enforcement that is not shared by the white community.
@mattstate@voiceofinsanity@mizraven@Kanzaz You wrote "I think John is pretty sure who was doing the screaming"
I think Mary Cutcher is too!
Most folks I run into that have supported Zimmerman usually don't partake in activities such as deductive reasoning or any rational thought for that matter.
It was really a breath of fresh air, and I commend you! :-)
We don't know for sure who's screaming on the 911 call. I know if a dude approached me and asked if I had a fucking problem, and I was strapped, I would immediately put my hand on my strap, expose it so he could see it, and reply "No, I don't have a problem, do you have a problem?
I guarantee you any unarmed person, thug or not would back-off and go the other way!
I don't believe Zimmerman ever feared for his life because he had the one equalizer, and it empowered him to go looking for Trayvon. If he didn't have the gun, I bet he ramains in his vehicle. On the other had, Trayvon had no rational reason to be bold in his position.
@mattstate @AriD2385 I admit I was shocked by your statement, but I'm in a playful mood tonight what can I say!
@voiceofinsanity @mizraven @Kanzaz and that's why John went upstairs and didn't call the police and Zimmerman who supposedly had his head bashed in to near unconsciousness said...
bah... I don't need no stinking hospital! Who hasn't had a concussion before or a few blood clots on the brain right?
I mean it's not like you could actually have a seizure and die from an injury like this, right? Take to Advil and call it night lol!
@mattstate @AriD2385 You wrote "how's Zim going to shoot a man in the chest when he is above martin with Martins back to him. "
Silly....everyone knows it was a miracle! jk!
@Paul Hue @whiteie So only homeowners are civilized and deserve equal protection under the law? Wow I didn't know that
You wrote "there is no way that they would be able to convict Zimmerman for 2nd degree murder . . .
this is just another entry in an already "out of control" dog and pony show.
If the forensics are strong don't be so sure!
@voiceofinsanity @garricklong @SteppSoober
I watched the newscast it's nowhere near the T.
@Paul Hue @mattstate @SusanHurt @mizraven @BajaJoes
You wrote "Mark: Have you seen that video of the white white who experienced exactly what Zimmerman claimed happened to him?"
No I can't say that I have, and I believe Zimmerman's claim about as much as I would believe that Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords could simply shake off her injuries from her attacker, bounce up, go home without so much as a trip to the hospital.
@SusanHurt @mattstate @Paul Hue @twiz123
You wrote "I raised twin boys (and a daughter) by myself and they all went through their own little incidents and turned out as great adults and productive citizens. Trayvon had parents who cared - he would probably have turned out fine, too. But we won't know. I actually feel bad for Zimmerman, too - I highly doubt he had any intention or any idea things would go this way."
Well said. I feel the exact same way!
You wrote "how in the hell are we to believe that it was Trayvon screaming, and then Zimmerman shoots him cold with all sorts of potential witnesses, including cops, drawn to the screaming?"
When you're in a rage you don't think about that. There is no proof that Trayvon doubled-back. There is substantial proof that Trayvon was trying his best to avoid Zimmerman.
I don't believe Zimmerman entered the situation with the intent to kill. I believe he just wanted to hold the teen for cops until they arrived. When Trayvon resisted this pissed Zimmerman off and he lost his temper!
@Paul Hue @garricklong He did more than keep visual contact according to Trayvon's girlfriend.
I would also add that there is a good reason why police do not want citizens to engage possible criminals. Let's say hypothetically that Trayvon really was a dangerous thug, if Zimmerman pursues, then Trayvon would probably have a gun and would not hesitate to pull it out and kill Zimmerman the second he felt that this guy was following him!
It's called Neighborhood Watch not Neighborhood Cop.
@mattstate @SusanHurt @Paul Hue @twiz123
No an empty baggie was found no pipe. The pipe you got from racists trying to defame Martin!
Dido for the screwdriver! If what he did was so terrible why wasn't he charged?
Sounds to me like you are reputation sniper there buddy.
@SusanHurt @Paul Hue
Do I think they will televise the trial? Absolutely not! They no what a media circus that can become, and if they do it opens the door for a mistrial!
In both case O.J. Simpson and Casey Anthony the accused got off, so I don't think they go down that road here!
@mattstate @twiz123 @SusanHurt
You wrote "could sound the same as Martin throwing a punch.
do you, at least admit that possibility Mark?"
If he was going to attack Zimmerman, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't be trying to avoid Zimmerman and he would have gotten off the phone. He had iphone 4, you are not just going to say fuck the phone and go after Z!
@mattstate @SusanHurt @twiz123 No you have been over this. I use common sense. The way she described it was Trayvon was attacked. End of story!
@SteppSoober @garricklong You wrote " I think Zimmerman said he was attack when he was going back to his car. That doesn't mean he was at the destination of it. "
Even if that were the case. If he made the call at point A on the diagram and his truck was at point C, what would cause him to turn left to go to point F?
He's supposed to be going back to his truck and point F is a direction away form his truck.
@Paul Hue It may be there, but the evidence not released to the public. They are not going to try this case on a special episode of Politics Nation you know.
@StephenPseudonymousSmith @synnuh @mizraven @BajaJoes Well, credible or not, the prosecutor believes there is sufficient evidence to charge Zimmerman with second degree murder. I wonder what changed in 5 weeks.
@SusanHurt @Paul Hue @mizraven @mattstate @BajaJoes
And why, when you hear the shot, do the screams abruptly stop? Zimmerman? Doesn't make sense, but who knows?
I know... right? His story has so many inconsistencies it's unbelievable!
@garricklong You didn't know? All the racists claim that the two were teleported by Captian Kirk and the Starship Enterprise. This is how they ended up at point F!
Doesn't that make sense to you? LOL!
@Paul Hue That's the thing, Alan Dershowitz is not a part of this case so he doesn't know what the evidence is.
If the prosecution has forensic evidence, say for example, proof based on blood splatter that it would be impossible for Trayvon to have been on top of Zimmerman when the shot was fired then this kills Zimmerman's credibility and changes the terrain for the prosecution. Don't count out that this is not the case.
Another question I was asking my self is.... How in the hell is that Zimmerman screaming for help on the 911 tape if he is nearly unconscious?
@mattstate @mizraven @SusanHurt @Paul Hue
You wrote "
prove racial profiling . . . I dare ya"
The lead detective Chris Serino sure thought it was racial profiling, and I don't think Chris Serino will ever be mistaken for Al Sharpton! Just sayin....
@Paul Hue @jaamoka
You wrote "Perhaps he continued, as was his right. And he did not fear for his life until he got cold cocked"
and he did not get cold-cocked until he shoved Trayvon.
You wrote "When you fear for you life you don't go confronting trouble. Especially when you've called someone to do just that for you."
@StephenPseudonymousSmith @synnuh @mizraven @BajaJoes
You wrote "They said". Yeah, "they" who are the owners of some brand-new software that "they" claim is infallible..."
You mean the same technology that the FBI and CIA use?
Yeah what was I thinking, that cartoon club CIA has no credentials! (sarcasm) o_o
@Paul Hue @mattstate @twiz123 @SusanHurt
You wrote " I can't get past the FACT that prior to the shot being fired, the guy firing the shot had just minutes early CALLED THE POLICE OVER and knew that ANY SECOND police would be watching. "
He is cozy buddies with the cops, and the kid he just killed was perceived to be a black thug from the ghetto! Why would he be concerned about being arrested?
@synnuh @mizraven @BajaJoes No they didn't!
They said that is voice was I believe a 48% match. That means that it is not him! In order for it to have been him it would have had to be in the high 90's.
My voice might match your voice 32% but that doesn't mean we are the same person. All humans will match up to a certain percent.
@Paul Hue @twiz123 @SusanHurt Actually, I listened to the audio of her account and I listened to Ben Crump the attorney for the Martin family.
I would be inclined to try and understand your point of view until you started referring to Trayvon as a thug. He was no more a thug than Channon Christian!
Unlike you, I don't go around speaking ill of the dead. Was Trayvon a perfect angel? No. Did he make some foolish decisions as an adolescence? Yes, but he was far from a thug!
I think we need to be appalled at all murder. I would just add that for decades whites would lynch blacks and not only would their be no press, but the folks guilty would go free as a bird!
It's all wrong and that's what we should recognize!
@clarksvilletnusa You are correct, but let me play devil's advocate for minute. Just because Trayvon could not legally own a gun does not mean he wouldn't have one. If he was the BIG BAD THUG some of these clowns on this site try to make him out to be then he most certainly would get a gun that was unregistered. That's what most criminals do, Anyway, it's a moot point because Trayvon was not a thug and he didn't have a weapon. I just thought I'd throw that out there for people to ponder.