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@The Lazy Cat After how Vastra treated her just minutes earlier... so would I :P
3 hours, 2 minutes ago on Deep Breath Review
@The Lazy Cat Ok, I'll grant you that her affection for the Doctor didn't seem to wane when he got older in TotD... but, first of all, it's not like she really had time to let it sink in that he's older. The whole thing happened so quickly for her: The Doctor's young and naked, then the Doctor's older, then the Doctor's old, then the Doctor is the older 12th. Bing-bang-boom. I don't think that judging her based on what she did when in that state of flux is really what counts. I do think that what she did when things finally settled down is what matters.
And what did we see when things slowed down? 16 minutes of her complaining about him being old. And then even after the Vastra's speech, we had her comment about his hair in the restaurant (which even the Doctor called her on for being not ok), and so on and so forth.
And as to the pinup... I'm really sorry, but it means absolutely nothing. MY sole "pinup" as a teen was a poster of a yellow swallowtail butterfly I got from a nature magazine. It doesn't mean I'm not at all shallow about looks or youth. It may not be my sole defining characteristic when looking for a partner, but it's definitely, undeniably there. Not having normal "pinup" posters in your room as a teen is not any kind of evidence for someone being "beyond looks". My having a swallowtail butterfly as my sole choice for posters doesn't mean that I'm only into "abstract, non-human ideals of beauty" and her having Marcus Aurelius doesn't mean she's only into "the inner man" or even that she's not "so easily distracted".
And I'm sorry, but I found her comment to Vastra to be EXTREMELY rude.
However much they pissed me off, I would think long and hard before seriously suggesting a married person was into me. Let alone in front of their spouse and in the middle of their front room.
12 hours, 33 minutes ago on Deep Breath Review
To be honest, what bothered me about that kiss was not the kiss... but how it was done. The whole "I've got stored up air. Here, I'll give you some" thing. If you're gonna have them kiss, then have them kiss. There's no need to give it an excuse. This felt awkward, and it shouldn't have been. Yes, it fit the situation, with them holding their breath and all... but it still sounded awkward to me.
It was trying for two birds with one stone. They should have hit the birds separately.
15 hours, 39 minutes ago on Addressing the Deep Breath Kiss
@TheOncomingHurricane @Adric the Genius Yeah, I just figured they did it "off-era".
15 hours, 41 minutes ago on Addressing the Deep Breath Kiss
@TheNightmareChild is LISTENing! @jameskirk27 United Colours of Dalekton.
20 hours, 50 minutes ago on Into the Dalek Promo Pics
@PaddyB That's exactly what I was thinking.
20 hours, 54 minutes ago on Into the Dalek Promo Pics
@ilyootha is back in home Universe @Sephora.IWishIWasScottish Actually, I've met loads of people who go "how do I get my money back". And I'm given to understand that in America they spend quite a bit of time and effort on that very question.
21 hours, 19 minutes ago on Deep Breath Review
@Planet of the Deaf @YaelMoise @The Lazy Cat I get that feeling, yes.
22 hours, 18 minutes ago on Deep Breath Review
@Grizzlybread Speaking as someone who goes on and on... trust me, it doesn't end as badly as you might think. Really, just leave us to it, if it bothers you. I assure you're we're quite happy. :)
22 hours, 26 minutes ago on Deep Breath Review
@Planet of the Deaf @The Lazy Cat Wellll... I knew about places like this, back then, too. I just never really bothered with them. To be honest, I wouldn't have bothered with this place either, not to the point of actually posting, if it weren't for my impression that people here were EXTREMELY accepting of other people's views and very polite.
22 hours, 29 minutes ago on Deep Breath Review
@Planet of the Deaf @YaelMoise @The Lazy Cat I haven't the faintest idea. I only found out what a controversial, divisive character she was when I got here. Before then... I just assumed everyone liked her. *blush*
22 hours, 32 minutes ago on Deep Breath Review
@AztecsDaleksAndCavemen @The Lazy Cat I wonder if he was as debated when he was actually on the show as he is now, though.
22 hours, 35 minutes ago on Deep Breath Review
@The Lazy Cat I don't know... Donna seems to be something of a consensus. Well... at least to the extent that she's not really "debated" all that much. Heaven knows I know people who dislike her. My brother is one, for example.
22 hours, 45 minutes ago on Deep Breath Review
@Formerly EJB @YaelMoise @Grizzlybread Perhaps I read him wrong... but if that were the case, why suggest they "just enjoy it" and "don't go nitpicking"? No, it reads more like some other comments on here that have problems with over-analysis. Especially as that analysis seems, to them, to lead to a negative response.
22 hours, 46 minutes ago on Deep Breath Review
@The Lazy Cat There have been some major discussions about Amy, though mostly in the context of the "Is Moffat sexist" debate. Not as a stand-alone issue. I've heard some serious debates about Martha, but again, this was in the context of a bigger debate - that of the Doctor and romance. And yes, like others have said, Rose is hotly contested. Really hotly contested. In her case, it's definitely stand-alone and quite comparable.
22 hours, 49 minutes ago on Deep Breath Review
@The Lazy Cat @YaelMoise Yes, on rereading, I can see that you were saying that. And I thank you. It really is an interesting bit of insight into her personality. It doesn't necessarily mean I'll like her better... I have some VERY good reasons for considering weak insecure people, who compensate for their weaknesses and insecurities by use of bravado, self-centeredness, and an obsession with controling their environment and their fellow-man, to be less than acceptable. So... not necessarily.
Still... it does make me potentially see her in a new light. And... well... like I said... this requires thought.
22 hours, 55 minutes ago on Deep Breath Review
@Grizzlybread So, basically, you're saying "Don't think". And "if anything bothers you about what you just saw... concentrate really hard about how wonderful the show is, and that bad feeling will go away".
Pardon me, but it seems like a silly suggestion. There are shows out there where I shut my brain off and just watch them like that. Shows where I have zero expectations and am never disappointed, as a result.
I would never list Doctor Who among them. For me, the mere suggestion, is insulting to the show. Yes, like Peter Davison once said, it's best not to pull too hard at the threads (I've given up years ago on asking how come the moon was still waiting for us when we came back from the Medusa cascade...), but that doesn't mean you should completely shut your brain off and just chant "awesome show... awesome show... awesome show...".
I think about things. It's what I do. I think about what pleased me and why... and, yes, I think about what displeased me and why. I wouldn't bother with it if it wasn't an awesome show... but it is, so I do.
Personally, I find all these "You're watching it wrong" comments to be rather offensive. I mean, who are you to tell me how to watch it? I'm here, aren't I? I like the show, don't I? So, what does it matter to you if I analyze it?
23 hours, 5 minutes ago on Deep Breath Review
@The Lazy Cat @YaelMoise Naturally. If there's anything that can be said about Doctor Who, it's the two people rarely see the same episode, even when sitting next to each other. :)
23 hours, 23 minutes ago on Deep Breath Review
@Ottoman14 I don't agree that Moffat doesn't get characterisation... but you're right on all the other points.
23 hours, 24 minutes ago on Deep Breath Review
@sontaran17 @ Notsosmartguy the dalek of Jersey @YaelMoise @The Lazy Cat Personally, I find the word to be perfectly apt for both my view of her personality AND my disapproval of it. And to quote the great Victoria Wood (speaking about another "strong" "rude" word, but equally correct in this case): "To use another word just takes so long".
Not to mention the fact that I'm not entirely sure there even IS a word or even set of words that can aptly and succinctly replace "bitch" while adhering to the code of common decency which you seem inclined to demand I use... when talking about a fictional person.
That said, if you have any suggestions as to I can accurately convey the sense of the word "bitch" without actually saying "bitch", I would be very pleased to hear your suggestions.
23 hours, 31 minutes ago on Deep Breath Review
@The Lazy Cat Actually, I would argue that narcissism is a symptom of insecurity rather than of a "witty persona". It's a form of over-compensation. Hell, occasionally, a witty personality is in and of itself a defense mechanism for deeply insecure people.
Crap. I think you may have done something to make me reconsider how I feel about the self-centered bossy little bitch.
This requires some thought.
1 day ago on Deep Breath Review
@TheOncomingHurricane @YaelMoise @The Lazy Cat True... true... but we don't know when that situation came about. Using "she gave up a year of her life" when we don't know much about it, and the situation we DO see isn't exactly one of a needy family... is in fact one of a family rejecting her and encouraging her to go... well, for me, at least, it does nothing for her character. Not as an antidote to the image painted by the rest of series 7B, at the very least
@ Notsosmartguy the dalek of Jersey @YaelMoise @TheOncomingHurricane @The Lazy Cat Notsosmartguy - It has been known to happen. ;)
@TheOncomingHurricane @The Lazy Cat Hang on... you meant the Maitlands. Well... I don't know. I got the impression there that, if anything, she was using them to hide from her life than anything else. The kids gave the impression that they don't need her. The father gave the impression that he doesn't really need her... it never really struck me as properly a sign of "Oh, she's a great person".
@TheOncomingHurricane @YaelMoise @The Lazy Cat Hurricane - Self-centered, yes. It doesn't mean she doesn't care about the Doctor. It just means she cares about herself first of all.
And, really? "Put her life on hold"? She wouldn't even travel with him full time. Everything was on her terms. Everything was when it was convenient for her. Yes, there was the occasional act of utter selflessness, but it was the exception, not the rule. If anything, it was her more selfless nature that I found truly subtle in this show.
@The Lazy Cat Lazy Cat - I disagree. I don't think it's an exaggeration at all, and I don't see the hints in 7B to be all that subtle. Mostly because these beautifully pointed descriptions of her were exactly, but I mean EXACTLY the picture of her that I was painted by series 7B. Other people were rambling on about "under-defined" and "two dimensional" and "plot device".
I was just thinking "well... she's a bossy self-centered bitch".
When the Doctor said it, too, I just cheered and cheered.
Dear Clint Hassel (whoever you are in the comment section)... thank you.
While this article does little to reconcile me to some of the bigger flaws in the writing of, for example, Clara's character (I still have SEVERE issues with the veil scene and with Jenny accepting what is quite frankly, a speech that came out of Clara's rear orifice, for all the veracity that can be attributed to it)... it does help reconcile me to a lot of other things, the phonecall most of all.
I suppose it's very foolish of me, but I never considered looking at this episode with me not as its intended audience. I said, in the other thread, that I considered the phonecall to be an insult to the audience, which, as Whovians, shouldn't really need training wheels of this magnitude. However, it never occurred to me that it was specifically aimed at those fans who DO need them. I'm not entirely sure that pandering to the lowest echelon of the fandom is the best way to run a show... but I suppose, now that I think about it... that there was a LOT at stake here. The reaction to Capaldi, both negative and positive, after he was announced and before he debuted outright, was very violent. There was, presumably, a potential for quite a large loss of fans. I may not like those kind of fans, but they are fans all the same, and the show needs to take care of them too, if it is to survive. The loss of them could have been devastating.
Something extreme, I suppose, had to be done. Those of us, like myself, who are used to better things would quietly (or not so quietly in my case) grumble and complain, but would still hang around... and those of us who are feeble enough in their affections as to need this sort of help would stick around. And the show survives. Happy ending all round, more or less.
As long as this custom of lowering the bar as far down as it will go does not become the hallmark of the series from here on in... I suppose I can forgive it some of Deep Breath's bigger sins.
1 day, 1 hour ago on Deep Breath Review
@Julian_Prime73 A scene that could have happened even without the phonecall.
1 day, 3 hours ago on Rate & Discuss Deep Breath
@Julian_Prime73 Then he should have utilized it, instead of pulling Matt out of mothballs.
Sorry. There's no way you could convince me this was a good idea.
@XanderH @YaelMoise Doesn't really mean much. PG just means "It's up to parents to decide"... which is why I'm asking what they would decide :P
1 day, 13 hours ago on Whodunnit? The Fate of the Half-Face Man
@Riker Oh, I have no problem what so ever with a dinosaur spontaneously combusting. I just don't think the "how" of it was just "the half-face droid's flame throwing hand thing". ;)
1 day, 14 hours ago on Rate & Discuss Deep Breath
@ Notsosmartguy the dalek of Jersey @EyebrowsAttack The way I see it, it's their own fault for being awesome.
If you raise the bar, don't expect us to let you phone it in later.
1 day, 15 hours ago on Rate & Discuss Deep Breath
@ Notsosmartguy the dalek of Jersey @YaelMoise lol Don't we all.
@ Notsosmartguy the dalek of Jersey @YaelMoise Whoa there! No need to go that far!
I don't think you're ignorant, and there's no need for you to call yourself that. At all. Seriously.
I think you're just very passionate about DW and very eager to defend it against any who find fault with it.
Believe me, if I was anywhere but among Whovians, I would probably be the same way.
@ Notsosmartguy the dalek of Jersey You keep saying that and I keep asking myself whether the people complaining right now are indeed the same people who were asking for darkness before.
I for one:
a) Liked the darker tone of Deep Breath (it was one of the few things I DID like. Any "hate" on my part is due to completely different causes)
b) Voiced concerns about too much darkness in future Doctor Who (Hey, the way they sold it, it sounded like it would be MUCH darker than this was).
and c) Never asked for Doctor Who to get darker.
Reading the comments, I would say that other people are equally as complicated in their opinions and sentiments.
So, really, I do think you're making generalizations about groups that might not even exist with that question.
@BeyondThePolice @Paulb_47 I believe he meant it in the sense that she lacked characterization before but was now a fully-fledged and realized three-dimensional character. Not in the literal sense of "Who is this never before seen companion?", but in the sense of "Wow! She's suddenly here in a way that she's never really been before".
At least... that's how I read it.
@Doctor What @YaelMoise @ClaireAbraham @Paulb_47 "Why SHOULD"? Well, for three reasons:
First of all, because it's a bit insulting to 12th. He is the Doctor. He doesn't need a seal of approval to be the Doctor, not even from his former self, and putting one on him is demeaning to his new status as "The Doctor, whether you like it or not".
Secondly, because it's a bit insulting to the audience. This show is about change and you really shouldn't need the previous Doctor to tell you it's ok. You should be able to deal with it without training wheels.
And finally, because it was less "new and bold" to my mind and more "the easy way out". A shortcut. 10th had to prove to Rose that he's the Doctor. 12th? He just gets 11th to do it for him. It's a genuine, bona fide, honest to God, Deus Ex Machina: The blessed 11th comes down from the heavens (well... the past), and makes everything ok.
@MoserGray @LaraHarris Um... The 4th Doctor's era was MUCH bigger on putting down religion than the current writers are, I feel. Hardly surprising, really, when one of people in charge was Douglas Adams, and both of the leads were atheists. Lalla Ward even went on to marry Richard Dawkins, so there you go.
It's genuinely not as bad as all that these days, compared to back then. Hell, I even caught one REALLY weird PRO-religious comment in a minisode (written by Moffat) a while back. Something even an avowed Theist like myself found a little bit too far out.
I understand your dislike for people mocking faith or religion, but like LaraHarris said - DW has always treated religion with offhandedness, and if you're here for the ride, you need to develop a tolerance for it, as well as a sense of gratefulness for it NOT being the 4th Doctor's era, atm.
As to liberal slant... well... I guess it's difficult for me to criticize it, since I AM pretty liberal myself, however I will say this much - I think it was much more intensely advocated during the RTD era. I agree with you that RTD was more clever at it, and that Moffat tends to be a little hamfisted with how he serves it up, or at the very least that Deep Breath's director didn't do much to aid him in delivering it in a clever manner.
Either way, like LaraHarris said, this is part and parcel, hun. Part and parcel.
1 day, 16 hours ago on Rate & Discuss Deep Breath
@troughton who? @007 Bond 50 Seven, yeah... You know, I still find the ending of Remembrance of the Daleks a bit disturbing on this count. They did it to themselves, true... but it's still pretty bloody disturbing and he's pretty damn cold about it.
1 day, 16 hours ago on Whodunnit? The Fate of the Half-Face Man
Personally, I'm with leaning towards the theory suggested on the "Rate and discuss" page, with 12th just talking him into jumping. For me, that's about half-way between yes and no.
What I really find myself wondering, after this week's episode, is actually something else entirely: I don't have children, and I honestly never look at "age recommendations" so I have no way of gauging this... but would the parents on here let their kids watch the show atm? Using Deep Breath as a measure of how "grown up" it's going to be from now on, that is. Would you?
I'm not making a case against it. Like I said, I honestly have no idea. I just found myself curious as to the views held by actual parents, so if any are about, I would appreciate your point of view.
@TomLong2 Eleventh Hour, without a doubt.
1 day, 20 hours ago on Rate & Discuss Deep Breath
@Romanadvoratrelundar @Julian_Prime73 Didn't really look like something that would quickly and completely engulf a dinosaur, though, did it. Using something like that on a dinosaur would still need some sort of accelerant, in order to make it burst into flames so completely, I think.
@The Lazy Cat @YaelMoise Many thanks. That's very flattering.
And I must say I am looking forward to your article about her... despite my dislike of Clara. :)
@TheNightmareChild is NOT a control freak! @CraigBull @TheNightmareChild is NOT a control freak! @ Notsosmartguy the dalek of Jersey Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh... I like that idea!
1 day, 23 hours ago on Rate & Discuss Deep Breath
@MrRazza, General Rogue Timelord Identifier Well, as I stated below in great detail, I found that the darkness wasn't an issue at all. It felt Doctor Who-y and balanced enough for me, and wasn't half as bad as the interviews and articles and trailers led me to believe it would be.
Honestly, they need to rethink how they sell things, over at the BBC. The picture they painted was MUCH bleaker than the one we ended up with.
I didn't like the episode, for a long list of mostly technical reasons, but it really wasn't the darkness that ruined it for me.
And seeing as how I've come across more than one review that felt exactly the same way I do about the episode... but which expressed great contentment about, as well as sheer admiration for episodes further down the line, starting with episode 3... I'm rather optimistic now :)
@Polyphase @Skylord Maldon Actually, I prefer the 7th Doctor era's theme...
@ClaireAbraham @Paulb_47 I agree that referencing the old Doctor and proving that he's the same man is better than not doing it... but it's rather difficult to do it when his incarnations don't share a companion who's around when he changes, like 10th and 11th.
That said, I still feel that the phonecall was a step too far down this particular road. It could have been handled without it. It SHOULD have been handled without it.
2 days ago on Rate & Discuss Deep Breath
It seems I owe Moffat a small (Very small. Don't get excited) apology about the episode: He DOES address the Doctor's abandonment in text and not just through Clara's behaviour. It doesn't fix the fact that that whole bit was "one step forward, two steps back" and part and parcel of the whole mess that was Clara's emotional state in this this episode, but it was addressed in text and I missed it. So, sorry for saying it wasn't.
@NineTenElevenTwelve @YaelMoise @Coffee and Chips @DasManiac Sorry, but I can't see the need for that last part of your comment, to be honest. So long as you're civil and I'm civil, a discussion is never a bad idea. And as to "it's your opinion and I respect it", that should go without saying. And "agreeing to disagree" before you even talk to someone is actually rather rude.
Honestly, if you want to "respect my opinion" just respect it. There's no need to post about how you "respect it while having no desire to talk to me", because it's the latter, not the former that stands out when you do that.
2 days, 4 hours ago on Rate & Discuss Deep Breath
@Scootersfood @truewhovian9101112 Having read your posts, I can't say I'm surprised. You go out of your way to put "negative Whovians" down. It's hardly surprising, as a result, that you end up having a bad experience with them.
2 days, 17 hours ago on Rate & Discuss Deep Breath