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A return to the Conference Football Association mentality when the top 64 football playing schools forced changes in how football games were shown on tv (at the time, ABC had 1 national game of the week, and 4 regional games). After the CFA finished, each conference was allowed to create their own tv deals.
As for pay for the athletics, each conference would decide which sports based upon the revenue generated by that sport for the conference. Doesn't matter then if female or male - just purely based upon the $ numbers.
1 year, 8 months ago on With Talk Of A Super-Division Booming, Here’s How We’d Re-Work College Football From Top To Bottom
@mowens75 @JRsec @AllTideUp @Roggespierre
Last time the Big1G expanded and took Maryland and Rutgers - yes they were AAU schools etc. But they both were the largest public institution in their state (with no close competitors), were located in a state that borders the Big1G's current footprint, and had a high number of tv sets in-state.
Taking UNC and UVA makes a lot of sense for the Big1G. Except both schools share their state with other large universities. UVA with Virginia Tech (no ESPN, not with West Virginia). And the state of North Carolina has UNC, Duke, NCState, little Wake Forest - and East Carolina.
At the same time, since UNC and Duke focuses on basketball, I wonder if they would consider joining the Catholic 7? Probably not, but it would make a GREAT BASKETBALL conference.
2 years, 1 month ago on Big Bang Theories: The Countdown To Super-Conferences (Part 4)
@mowens75 @AllTideUp @Roggespierre @JRsec
After the 1st ACC raided the Big East back in 2002 timeframe, the Big East agreed to do a Friday night game with ESPN. Yes - at that time, having a night game during the week was bad for the teams - but in terms of media exposure it was great..
This time around, would expect ESPN to go about this one conference for each night. Say Big1G on Monday night, SEC on Tuesday night...
2 years, 2 months ago on Big Bang Theories: The Countdown To Super-Conferences (Part 4)
@DanHogan @Roggespierre @Astakaderas
I live in Virginia. The invite for Virginia Tech to join the ACC had the Governor of Virginia insisting the ACC take VT instead of Syracuse. VT and UVA do not like each other. Oddly, after VT joined the ACC - state funding to UVA increased. And odder still, if you check ESPN where they list the revenue/expenses by Athletic Departments, you will find that UVA and VT are almost the same. Never was in the past.
To me. if UVA goes Big1G, then I would expect VT to prefer the SEC, but might go to the Big 12 (if its time to run from a crumbling ACC).
Rutgers gives the Big1G New Jersey but really does not guarantee the city/state of New York. If the Big1G took Syracuse they would have the New York state viewers.
ESPN vs Fox vs Comcast/NBC will be interesting.
As a businesss consultant, it has always been hard to get people to change from what they have been doing. If things are going well, you hear "why should I change?". If things are going bad, there are fears "you'll only make it worse."
ESPN has been successful at what they do. ESPN wants to preserve what they have and to defend themselves from attacks (Fox, and Comcast/NBC Sports).
Both Fox and Comcast/NBC wants a bigger piece of the market - and today, that means taking conferences from ESPN.
Fox has a more aggressive mind-set and may be willing to pay more (either to a conference as it currently exists or if that conference add new members. Especially if adding that school will weaken a conference that is aligned with ESPN.)
Does anoyone know if the network contracts being offered now are for longer terms (10 years?) than contracts in the past?
@SouthernBoiSB @mowens75 @larryphelps20 @JRsec @JansonRoberts
There was a time (19070's - 80's ?) that UNC had a very good football team that year after year, went to bowl games (before there were 35 bowls). That coach left for Texas - Mack Brown.
The same can be said for Duke. For a while, Duke had a football coach that was famous for passing. He left Duke and took ove at Florida. Name? Steve Spurrier.
At the time both men left, it was said that at their school, football was a distance second (or lower) to the focus on basketball.
Over the past couple of years, I have seen it said several times that Clemson and Florida State, both more football oriented, feel like the ACC is more focused on basketball. And that both schools are falling farther behind when compared to their in-state rivals - both of which are in the SEC (South Carolina and Florida). How long can they wait to match their rival's SEC cash flow before they are too far behind to catch up?
Both Coack K and Roy Williams pushed for the addition of Syracuse and Pitt to improve the ACC's basketball reputation.
All of which sounds very similar to fans of the BIg East. Back before 2002, Miami pushed for changes in the Big East.. When nothing happened, Virginia Tech, Miami, and Boston College left for the ACC.
Reacting to this, the Big East considered merging with C-USA. That didn't work out. The non-football schools in the Big East told the football playing schools they should probably all go ahead and leave and form a new conference. But they would not be allowed to take the name "Big East" nor would they be allowed to take the Big East's position in the BCS bowl games. (What use was a football bowl to non-football playing schools?) A middle of the road solution, was to invite several C-USA schools to join the Big East.
You could say, the Big East became more like C-USA. While the ACC becomes more like the Big East every time the ACC adds another Big East school.
Wouldn't it just have been a lot simpler to change the name of the conferences?
I think Clemson and FSU move first. The Big1G and SEC sees this, and then steps in to fight over the remaining ACC's top programs.
@JRsec @AllTideUp @JansonRoberts @SouthernBoiSB
Remember TCU signed to join the Big East and then decided to switch to the Big 12 instead.
Boise State and San Diego State U (SDSU) both signed documents to head to the Big East but then decided to stay where they were. Boise State didn't have the smartest lawyers and must pay an exit fee to the Big East. SDSU's lawyers inserted a clause that if the Big East had no members west of the Mississippi, then SDSU could exit without paying an exit fee. Once Boise State said they were not joining the Big East, the Big East then had no members west of the Mississippi - so SDSU gets a free exit. Meanwhile, their conference has agreed to help Boise State to pay the Big East's exit fee.
It depends on political agreements and lawyers.
Even Notre Dame - as a condition for joining the ACC, for all sports except football, agreed to play more football games against ACC teams (5 per year?) than Notre Dame had done while in the Big East (maybe 1 game per year?).
A big grab by a conference of more than 2 new members would set off howls of protests. And could lead to serious political/legal responses.
The ACC took 2 from the Big East (Pitt & Syracuse) - which started another run for the exit by Big East schools. The Big1G (being smarter?), took 1 school from the Big East (Rutgers) and 1 school from the ACC (Maryland) thus being seen as smaller attacks against 2 fellow conferences. While the ACC is seen as the killer of the Big East. And with the ACC having so many former Big East schools ..is the ACC still the ACC or has the ACC become that which it has made so many negative comments about ..has the ACC become the Big East?
I think GREED and FEAR will be the deciding factors.
If the ACC is left out of the football playoff, there will be teams eager - desperate to leave the ACC.
So far the conference expansions (except for Notre Dame into the ACC) has always been a step of 2 schools.
If the Big1G or SEC or even the Big 12, takes 2 teams from the ACC - would the other conferences let that happen without also taking 2 teams?
And if 1, 2, or 3 conferences each take 2 teams = total of 6 teams from the ACC. At what point does the exits from the ACC start to look like the current stampede to get out of the Big East? At what point would an ACC school - decide to be like West Virginia and be eager to get a definite invite now - as opposing to waiting to see if things work out for the ACC?
@JRsec @vp81955 @KyleTaft
As diverse as they are, there has been times when the major schools banned together to make changes. They may end up doing it again, it seems like they are stepping towards that with the conference re-alignments.
Used to be, ABC had the contract to show college football. 1 nationwide game per week and 4 regional games. No one else showed anything.
Oklahoma sued. Evenutally, 63 other schools - some would say the largest schools - joined with Oklahoma to sue. The result was the formation of the College Football Association. It was decided that each conference could negotiate their own contract with the tv outlets. The SEC and Big East broke away from the other conferences and signed their own tv deals first.
Another time, was when they went to form Div I (now called BCS) and Div II (now called Football Championship Subdivision). Some schools lobbied that they didn't want to be considered as Div II - so they were eventually allowed to stay in Div I (Mid-American Conference, etc). But are these...schools really competitive at the "top tier" power school level? Should they be re-assigned to their own subdivision?
Another issue was why should a big school's vote within the NCAA be equal to a small school? Today, for example, Ohio State has a $125 M/year athletic budget - that is far greater than some schools entire operating budget. Are they really on the same level with the small schools? University of Virginia and Virginia Tech are both ranked between 40th and 50th, in terms of how much money they spent on their athletic programs ($75 m/year?). ESPN's website posts the figures but the webpage hasn't work properly for months - you cannot see all the schools in Div I.
If enough schools ban together, to oppose the NCAA - then the NCAA will change so it can survive.
After joining the Big1G, Nebraska lost their AAU accrediation. For the Big1G to jump to Georgia Tech that would be into a state that does not border the BIG1G's footprint. So far, they have not shown a willingness to do that.
Georgia Tech may be left watching the others move.
That's what I think they will try to do. Will the Big1G accept that taking 3 schools is the price for getting into the state of NC is the real issue.
If I was the Big1G commissioner, I would go after UNC, Duke, UVA and Syracuse. This seems to fit in what the BigG did when they recently added Maryland and Rutgers. Both schools are in a state that borders the current Big1G's borders and the school is in the AAU (based upon academic research). Also, the deal with both of these schools was worked out in private by the key political players. There were no leaked rumors to the press and no comments by any of the coaching staffs. Neither Maryland nor Rutgers has recently won national champhionships but they have reasonable sports programs that could be grown inside the BIg1G.. Both are in states with large populations - thus tv viewers.
The other year when there was talk of the Big1G expanding, and might be interested in Pitt & Syracuse - the men's basketball coaches at both schools made statements to the press that it would be stupid to leave the Big East.
I bet, the boss of the coaches "explained to them, that it was not their job to question his actions.
The past year, when both school accounced they were leaving - it was already a done deal and then both coaches issued public statements about how good the move was for the school.
Syracuse and the recent addition of Rutgers gets you into the New York and New Jersey markets.. Syracuse's men basketball coach is now #2 in active coaches in wins, he just passed Bobby Knight. #1 is Duke's coach K who does not appear to be thinking of retiring. Syracuse's Boeheim has been outspoken over the years about his dislike of the thought of leaving the Big East. At his age, he may retire rather than coach in a new conference.
Adding UVA, a AAU school, extends the BIG1G's borders to the North Carolina state line and brings the state of Virginia in.
Adding UNC and Duke, both AAU schools, gets you the state of North Carolina. Will the Tobacco Road schools break up and leave Wake (certainly) and maybe NCState behind (possible)? Maybe. It all depends on how badly the ACC is changing and the money.
When West Virginia wanted out of the Big East, they were willing to pay the record setting $25 M exit fee and accepted a reduce rate for 3 years from the Big 12. While in the Big East WVU got about $3 - 4.5 m/year. The Big12 payout, full share, is about $20 m/year.
Politicians are the wide card in all of this. Back in the 2002 timeframe, when the ACC was inviting BC, Miami, and Syracuse to leave the Big East, the Governor of Virginia, Mark Warner announced the state's attorney general would sue the ACC for hurting the Big East (and Virginia's member Virginia Tech). After it was announced that Syracuse would not join (men's basketball coach Boeheim spoke out against the move) but that Virgina Tech would take their place - then Virginia's Governor Warner announced that he had really told the ACC the state of Virginia would sue if they did not take Virginia Tech. Voters in Virginia responded to this lie, by electing the Governor to the US Senate.
For years, a complaint about the ACC was that the Tobacco Roads schools (UNC, Duke, NCState, and Wake Forest) voted as agroup and ran the ACC. Will they now abandon the lesser members for bigger money? At this point, anything is still possible. It all depends if the ACC starts to crumble like the Big East has done.
The state of NC has a history of working as a single group. The Tobacco Road schools - UNC, NCS, Duke, and (little) Wake Forest has moved and voted as a single block for over 50 years That history goes back to when they were members of the old Southern Conference..
When the original ACC voted to add Georgia Tech in 1978, concerns were voiced in repeated public statements that by adding a member to the ACC, it would lessen the voting power of the Tobacco Road schools.
The ACC didn't add another member until FSU in 1991.. The same concerns were voiced along with that FSU was of a lesser academic quailty but that the ACC had to do something to improve its football reputation.
I work in state gov in the mid-Atlantic region.. I research getting federal grants. The most feared competitor is the state of NC. They always come into the game as a group with coordination and the support of all communities, at all levels (cities, counties, and state government) within the state.. The federal government usually spreads the money around the nation to gain political support. But I have seen several programs where the state of NC gets over 50% of the available funds.
NC truly understands voting power.
The ACC, after so many raids of the Big East, has become the Big East. No only in its membership, but also as being seen as the conference for the Power 4 cconferences to pick from. The ACC will be the next conference to have major changes in its membership.
The NC schools are probably working outside the public spotlight, to have a plan on moving as a group should (when) the ACC fall. I would expect them to offer a new conference to come in as a pod - UNC, Duke, NCState, and Wake. Wake may not win the 4th invite, I can see that going to UVa. And that pod going to the Big1G.
These schools would not be a fit in the SEC. The ACC, back in its early days, refused the addition of West Virginia because the previous year WVU had gone to a bowl game. There was even a time when only the ACC basketball tournamant winner, was allowed to compete in post season play - even though the ACC had 4 teams in the top 20.
Things change, but its often very slow. Leaving Wake behind so they can join the Big1G will be seen in NC as a major change.
I worked for 30+ in state gov in the mid-atlantic region. Was in contact with agency directors in state government and ..seasoned bureaucrats. Lying and political tricks never ended. The higher up I made contacts, the more disgusting it became.
Many people think a fight is fought face to face. Masters of the trade will not do that. They
use someone else to do their bidding. That way, if there are any complaints.."well I didn't do it." Its the old mis-direction trick.
If the media was caught telling the conferences what to do, to squeeze out the smaller schools, there would be a public outcry for a Congressional investigation. But if the conferences ask the networks for a new contract because the conference is adding a new member, then the media outlet is avoid of any blame.
We have grown to about 35 bowl games. That is 70 schools in play. Yet there are only about 124 schools in Div I. (and some say, March Madness has too many schools in the event....?)
Used to be going to a bowl meant your school had a great year. Past couple of years, teams with 7-5 and even 6-6 records are in some bowls..you have to ask.."why are they being played?" Most of the bowls are on ESPN. And the stands at most bowls have plenty of empty seats. Schools invited to a bowl must buy a specific number of tickets. West Virginia's AD Oliver Luck said many schools going to a bowl, lose money when they cannot sell their tickets. When UConn played in a BCS bowl, the school lost money! So who benefits from so many bowl games? The local business owners and the media outlet that broadcasts the game. And most of the games are on......ESPN.
The networks are having problems paying writes and prooducing shows that people want to watch. Programs with just people talking are cheaper. But just broadcasting a sporting event ..means no writers, no special effects, etc. It just cheaper to put on a college sport sprogram.
As for the separation of media broadcaster and the schools - visit the BCS website. Notice the color and structure of the various webpages. Then jump to the ESPN webpage. Feel like you are still at the same website?
At least we are making progress. We now have a 4 team play-off on the horizon. Michael Kelly who was a Senior Associate Commissioner of the ACC is the Chief Operating Officer for the group that will oversee the playoff. Interesting that no one from a power conference (SEC, Big1G, PAC-12, Big12) was selected.
2 years, 3 months ago on Big Bang Theories: The Countdown To Super-Conferences (Part 4)
When ESPN started, the Big East was the first to sign up for college basketball.
A year before the Big East's contract was up with ESPN, ESPN proposed a new contract at higher rates.
The Big East officials that held the contract discussions with ESPN were chaired by the AD from Pitt.
The Big East turned down ESPN's offer so the Big East could seek bids from rival media outlets (Fox and NBC/Comcast).
It was then announced that Pitt & Syracuse were leaving to go to the ACC. The AD at Boston College said in a news interview that ESPN told ACC officials which schools to add from the Big East. He later swore he had been mis-quoted, but you have to wonder.
Contact between the ACC and the Pitt AD were probably occuring at the same time the Pitt AD recommended turning down ESPN's offer.
Divorces can get ugly in a hurry. Apparently, even the posibility of offering your media inventory to others can spark an attact..
@AllTideUp @Hkjbr @JRsec
I agree - I think the SEC said "not now" to WV. With WV (state population about 1.2 M) signing away their media rights to the Big 12, leaving the Big 12 within the next 6 (?) years will be almost impossible.
I think the Big12 made a big mistake in taking TCU instead of Louisville. Lousiville would have put the state of Kentucky into play while TCU is another region of Texas. And it would have maintained a rival for WVU within driving distance.
Current rumor is the Big12 is asking the NCAA if they can have a conference championship game with only 10 schools - instead of the current requirement for 12 schools.This is a change from last summer when they said it was more advantage to avoid their top team playing an extra game and risking going down in the polls before bowl/playoff selection.
No school left in the old Big East adds enough to warrant an invite from the Big 12. At best, the Big 12 gets any left over teams from the ACC that are not taken by SEC and Big1G. Still, if the Big 12 moves first - and I do not see that happening - they might add some good schools.
@Hkjbr @edelswick @AllTideUp @JRsec
I like the "old days" when West Virginia had regional rivals with Virginia Tech, Pitt, Maryland, and Penn State. Wished they could have played with Ohio State, Kentucky, and Tennessee as well. All within driving distance for tailgate parties. Rivals that close, you keep inform on their every details - both good and bad.
The way things are changing, its all about greed.
West VIrginia traveling over 1,000 miles to play their nearest conference rival is sad. And WVU paid a high price ($25 ) to the Big East to get out - before it fell apart. And WVU had to agree to reduce money sharing for the first 3 years in the Big12. But WVU (3-0 in BCS bowl games) was turned down by the ACC (2-13 in BCS bowl games). SEC said "no". Big1G???
WVU could either wait to see how things played out..or go for the best available option. That turned out to be the Big 12,
@AllTideUp @JRsec @Hkjbr
That would help sell it to the political players - the Governors and state legislators. Ohio State and Virginia Tech have played the FCS schools in their state for years. And it still provides a pipeline of money to the FCS schools.
Another thing, a couple of years back when Big1G expansion was discussed in terms of Pitt and Syracuse to the ACC, both basketball coaches were negative about it in public. Once the issue die down in the press, a year or so later it was announced that these schools were changing conferences. On a Saturday, they inform the Big East conference commisioner they were leaving. On Sunday morning, the new conference (ACC) announced that they had been accepted. The 2 basketball coaches then issued public statements about how great it was for the school to change conferences.
Same approach was used this year with Maryland and Rutgers to the Big1G.
I would bet someone "explained" to the coaches that the coach's responsibility is limited to playing in whatever conference the school is in - and the decision on conference is not the "current coach's" responsibility. As it is often said......"they got on the same page".
They learned from their mistakes in the past. Would expect this same approach to be used again. With the crumbling of the Big East, the ACC (3-13 in BCS bowl games?) has now become the weakest conference at the "big boys" table. With the difference in money, it only a matter of time until more changes occur.
Years ago, Oklahoma sued ABC to break-up ABC selecting 4 regional games each week and 1 national game. Oklahoma was joined by (some would say. the biggest) 64 schools in a class action lawsuit. This is how the College Football Association was formed. It stayed in existance until each conference signed their own contract with a network.
When they started to form Div I (now called BCS) and Div II (now called FCS), several schools were against being labelled as Div II, They fought and were included in "Div I". At that time, each school had a egual sized vote.
Last summer, one topic that leaked out of the playoff discussions was whether or not it should be limited to only conference champions. If/when we end up with mega-conferences then watch the ? of "only conference champs" come up again. That way, each conference would host a game within their footprint and keep all the money.
The current BCS approach treats Notre Dame VERY SPECUAL. Hopefully, this will end with larger conferences. Under the BCS approach Notre Dame is paid over $1 M/year for being considered by the BCS. And Notre Dame receives, by formula, an additional amount if they play in a BCS bowl game. At the BCS "table" are the major conferences and Notre Dame with an equal vote. That just is not fair (is Notre Dame = SEC or Big1G or PAC-12 or Big-12) ??
So eventually, what is now called Div I, or the BCS schools, should have a smaller membership and only play teams within that division. (Each year, the current BCS pays a lump sum to 2 military service academies and the FCS. To buy their support?)
History tends to repeat itself - if it worked before...why not now? Years ago, the Big East expelled Temple because Temple was not fielding a competitive football program. So in the future rounds of conference re-alignment, some memberships may be up for grabs.
Today the Big1G, SEC and ACC have teams that are not competitve with the rest of their conference. Tomorrow? Indiana has good basketball teams, but when was the last time you could say that about their football team? Duke has great basketball, but it was back in the days of Steve Spurrier that they had a good football team. SEC's Vanderbilt is doing better, but are they a major player in the SEC?.
And if its football cash that is feuling the conference changes...are their memberships ..permanent?
I had my Governors wrong. It was Governor Mark Warner. And it was back in the 2001-2003 timeframe.
Owners of the Tennis Channel recently won a lawsuit against Comcast that Comcast had to make the Tennis Channel available in the same package as Comcast's Golf Channel. I understand the goal is for each conference to have their own sports network for cable via extra subscription, but the discussion over broadcast fees could get messy if some conferences provide a "low cost" channel to attract viewers/fans for the conference's premium sport channels..
Some people have posted negative comments about this article. I think this article is as good and as accurate as anything you will be able to find. That doesn't mean things will turn out as written here.
Take a look back at a previous expansion - some even say, the one that started the changing landscape. Back when the ACC first invited schools from the Big East. It was Syracuse, Boston College, and Miami. The Governor of Virgina stated in multiple press releases that he would instruct the state's Attorney General to sue the ACC if they took teams from the Big East. When schools started moving to the ACC it was Virgina Tech who moved instead of Syracuse. Governor Robb then publicly stated that he had been lying - that he threaten the ACC that Virginia would sue the ACC if they did not take Virginia Tech. Voters in Virginia reacted to this by electing Governor Robb to the United States' Congress.
As for Big12 expansion, I think they should go after Louisville, NCState, Clemson and Florida State to get into 4 states with high populations and in their rivals (SEC and ACC) footprints.
Like your analysis. Thing that I think is funny, is from a fan perspective we should prefer to see the best games against the best competitors. And preferable they would be close enough to us, that we can drive to the games.
Then we read dumb things. Like the ACC would not consider WVU due to lower academic standards. I can remember hearing that years ago, when the ACC invited FSU to improve the ACC's football reputation. WVU (3-0 in BCS bowl games) was turned down by a ACC (3-12 in BCS bowl games). The ACC then invited Syracuse & Pitt and those 2 schools have a combined..0 in BCS bowl games.
These are sports conferences where players meet on the court or playing field to see who is the best at that sport. They are not there to compare grades and research assignments. Conference Commissoners and University Presidents talk like they do not understand this.
I would like to see a "power division" of true top college sports programs playing each other. No more games against FCS schools. And no moreplaying teams like Duke, Indiana, and New Mexico for football. Their records - over the past several years - show they are not competitive when facing any of the top 64+ teams.
One very important lesson to consider when riding the waves of rumors - look at what has happened in the past.
The first time (2004) the ACC was openly interested in adding Big East schools, it was said those schools were Miami, Boston College, and Syracuse. The Governor of Virginia, Mark Warner issued press releases that if the ACC raided the Big East - thereby negatively impacting Virgina Tech that he would order the state's Attorney General to sue the ACC. When the final announcement was made - it was Virginia Tech not Syracuse that moved to the ACC. What had happened? Governor Warner then stated in public that he had lied, that his office had contacted the ACC and said the state of Virgina would sue if the ACC did not invite Virginia Tech. And pressure was put on UVA to strongly support VT's application. The citizens of Virginia, recognizing Governor Warner's talents - voted him into the US Congress.
An isolated case?
When WVU defected Oklahoma in the Fiesta Bowl with Bill Stewart as Acting Head Coach, the Governor of WVU rode back to the hotel with the WVU President and AD. It has been alleged, that the Governor asked those 2 state employees - "When are you going to hire Stewart?" They did, the next morning. That Governor is also now in the US Congress.
Remember last year when it was rumored that the Big 12 was going to announce inviting WVU? And then that announcement was delayed because no decison had been made. It was later said, that pressure had been brought on the Big 12 by a US Congressman from Kentucky for Lousiville to be invited instead. The WV Congressman (former Governor) got involved and asked for a Congressional investigation. It was announced that WVU was invited.
So.."name your sources" or this article is BS? Nope. This article is just what was said at a point in time, by someone who might be somehow involved or have some knowledge of what's going on. The final decsion will not be known until there is a press release by all parties involved. Until then, there will be so many rumors you could power a wind turbine.
2 years, 10 months ago on Are Clemson & FSU Leaving the ACC? | May
Having worked 32 years with politicians, I can understand the fluid (beats saying lying nature) of the games being played.
Everyone wants to appear to be solid supporters of where they are, for all the traditional reasons - unless or until they feel they can be left out of the BIG BOY FOOTBALL ASSOCIATION that's coming. To ensure they will not be left out, I would guess all hell has already broken out as schools fight in private sessions to position theirself into that association.
Years ago, the Top 64 schools banded together to force some changes and Division II (Football Championship Subdivision) and Division I (Football Bowls Subdivision) was formed. Several schools were designated as Division II ( not "Big Boys"). They fought against this and some were changed to Division I. That's why Division I has around 122 schools. Does Divison I conferences, like the Mid-American conference really belong in the same subdivision as the SEC, Big1G, Big 12, PAC-12? Can anyone name when one of these smaller conference schools was in a major bowl or Nation Title talk?
Schools in the Big East and ACC that - at least in public claim to run a "Big Time" football program run the risk of being seen as in one of these Division I's "token football conferences" unless they move to one of the power conferences - SEC, Big 12, Big1G, and PAC-12.
To limit fan's un-rest - it seems like the conferences want to only invite 2 schools at a time.
The Big 12, being at 10 schools is a BIG STEP behind the level of the SEC and PAC-12 and Big1G. How to make up that lost step without creating a public stampede by the SEC, Big1G, and PAC-12 for the remaining football playing schools that can bring value to your conference? The question seems to be - "How many schools can be invited from the ACC without causing the collapse of that conference or a Congressional investigation or a public outcry against your conference? And if the Big 12 invited 2 teams from the ACC with plans on inviting 2-4 more ACC schools later, would the SEC and Big1G step in and take some of those schools now - if for no other reason than to prevent the Big 12 from gaining those schools?
At the same time, for a Big 12 having 10 teams the addition of 2 new members is a BIG CHANGE. The Big 12 members would like to see how adding those 2 members works out before adding more new members. Right now with 8 of the Big 12 members having been together they are the "old school members" and they control 8 out of the 10 votes - that's 80%. If the Big 12 added 6 more schools to get to the 16 school super-conference, then the "old school members" would only control 8 out of 16 votes - that's 50%. That causes turmoil within a conference. Who's running things? The "old members" or the "new members"?
Years ago, JoPa wanted the formation of an all sports conference on the east coast. When he didn't get it - Penn State joined the Big1G. And the Big East was formed.
Have to wonder how things would be today - if a true "all sports" conference had been formed. FSU, Clemson, Georgia Tech, VT, UVA, WVU, Maryland, Pitt, Penn State, Syracuse, Rutgers, Lousiville, UCinn, and Boston College would have made a great conference. East coast - from south to north, and east (from shore) to the Missippi would have been a nice regional footprint. Rivals close enough to tailgate to .
Sadly, we got the Big East & ACC instead. Which has led to the current consolidation as the schoold with a football focus are trying to stay relevant in the Power 64 era (4 conferences @ 16 teams each, and a 4 conference playoff) .
2 years, 10 months ago on Big12/SEC Roundtable | May
If only the Big East exit fees and pay-outs by the Big 12 had included some money for me - I would be able to buy this.
2 years, 10 months ago on WVU / Texas Football Weekend | May
I think most major conferences are holding 2 positions open for a 16 teams conference in the hopes they can get Notre Dame and whoever Notre Dame would want as a in-conference rival. But I don't see Notre Dame making a decision to move "all-in" to a conference until the day hell starts freezing over.
That said, the Big 12 should have a contingency plan for moving up to 14 teams. The recent expansion of adding WVU and TCU gives them an opportunity to learn from that expansion before moving from 10 to 14 teams.
Most of the ACC teams have been down for a few years, but what other teams are there to choose from that bring real value to the Big12? If the Big 12 is interested in expanding their footprint into as many states as possible, then FSU, Clemson, Virgina Tech, and "unknown" (who?) makes good sense. Not sure who would be best as "unknown". Personally, living in Virginia, I would love to see Maryland (minus Randy Edsall) move to the Big12. Or maybe Lousiville. But Lousiville doesn't bring as much historical reputation as Maryland.
As for the 2 positions held open, if Notre Dame doesn't come "all in" at a later date - then look at BYU, Boise State, Cincinanti, and the loser of the Maryland/Louisville selection.
I would leave Pitt and Syrcause in the ACC. And Rutgers, UConn, and USF in the Big East.
2 years, 10 months ago on Clemson and FSU are on the clock | February
Will history repeat itself?
"The College Football Association (CFA) is the name of a now-defunct body through which American college football schools negotiated TV contracts with networks. The CFA was an alliance of 64 schools from the major conferences and selected independents."
2 years, 11 months ago on Math, Pods, and College Football: Why Super Conferences Are Inevitable | May
For years the ACC has picked what it considers the "best teams/markets" from the Big East. The result is the Big East is weaker - and the ACC is now a bad version of the Big East (Big East, with WVU is 3-0 in BCS games, while the ACC is 2-13).
It's probably near 0% for the Big 12 to take teams from the SEC, Big1G, or PAC-12. So where do the teams for expansion come from? Either Independent or the ACC, Big East.
I think Maryland is a dark horse possibility. But with Maryland you get Maryland, northern Virginia, and the DC markets.
Living in Virginia, us natives know that UVA and VT are joined. VT has done well in the polls in recent years - but once they reach a BCS bowl, they don't show up to play.
A Florida team makes sense (either FSU or Miami).
Clemson would help by bringing their state onboard and helping to fill in the map in terms of providing a regional opponent.
Both Clemson & a Florida team would be useful for putting a base within SEC territory. Its easy for the SEC to focus their fans interest when the ACC and Big East teams are playing, but can the SEC do the same thing against Big12 games?
The ACC's "tobacco road" schools move together - that's UNC, NCState, Wake Forest, and Duke. (And Wake Forest voted to keep WVU out the 1st time WVU applied to the ACC.)
So adding these teams would get the Big 12 to 13 teams, 3 more and there could be a super-conference. This is where the Independents teams and teams like Boise State or BYU should be considered.
2 years, 11 months ago on Podcast: The Dude talks Big 12, FSU | May
Sounds like Luck is willing to clean house and not let things continue as they have been. 18 years of service would deserve some loyality. But it counter-aacted by a 23-32 record. In the Big12, I would guess they take their baseball more seriously.
2 years, 11 months ago on Luck Announces Baseball Staff Changes | May
I live in Richmond, VA - watch a lot of Steeler games on local tv.
Same approach works for college. If the Big 12 joins with teams that have a good following, they can attract higher media $$. And if it hurts the ACC and SEC by pulling teams/fans from their area - that helps the Big12 even more.
The details of the negotiations? We will never know the truth. The Big East went coast to coast. The Big12 expansion is more reasonable with teams like Clemson, FSU, Louisville, UCinn, BYU, etc.
3 years, 1 month ago on Update on Big 12 Expansion | March
For about $10 on ebay you can buy DVDs of dance lessons. If we mailed a few to Buzz, maybe he can improve.
3 years, 1 month ago on Buzz's Dance Was NOT Just Harmless Fun | February
Compare Marquette's response to a recent incident betwen VCU and George Mason.
At the seniors night game at VCU (Richmond, VA), the George Mason team came out of their locker room and onto the court while the honoring was occurring. VCU and George Mason are 1-2 in their conference and only the tourney chap is likely to go to March Madness.
The AD at George Mason issued an apology.
Hey Buzzy? How do you compare your conduct to that of the players you suspended?
Isn't this the same Marquette that insulted Marshall back in the 1970's?
Back then, their coach was Al McGuire and Marguette was a regular in the Top 10.
Marshall had finally made it to the Top 25 and went to visit them for a game. I don;t remember the score but I do remember a quote from Al about a "bunch of hillbillies thinking they could come up here and beat us".
WVians have a long memory. Just ask native son Lou Holtz who still does not undertand why his son Skip did not get interviewed for the WVU head football coaching job that Bill Stewart got. Some would say it has a lot to do with Notre Dame vs WVU in a football bowl game from the 1980's which decided a national championship. Lou was the head coach at Notre Dame.