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A return to the Conference Football Association mentality when the top 64 football playing schools forced changes in how football games were shown on tv (at the time, ABC had 1 national game of the week, and 4 regional games). After the CFA finished, each conference was allowed to create their own tv deals.
As for pay for the athletics, each conference would decide which sports based upon the revenue generated by that sport for the conference. Doesn't matter then if female or male - just purely based upon the $ numbers.
7 months, 2 weeks ago on With Talk Of A Super-Division Booming, Here’s How We’d Re-Work College Football From Top To Bottom
@mowens75 @JRsec @AllTideUp @Roggespierre
Last time the Big1G expanded and took Maryland and Rutgers - yes they were AAU schools etc. But they both were the largest public institution in their state (with no close competitors), were located in a state that borders the Big1G's current footprint, and had a high number of tv sets in-state.
Taking UNC and UVA makes a lot of sense for the Big1G. Except both schools share their state with other large universities. UVA with Virginia Tech (no ESPN, not with West Virginia). And the state of North Carolina has UNC, Duke, NCState, little Wake Forest - and East Carolina.
At the same time, since UNC and Duke focuses on basketball, I wonder if they would consider joining the Catholic 7? Probably not, but it would make a GREAT BASKETBALL conference.
1 year ago on Big Bang Theories: The Countdown To Super-Conferences (Part 4)
@mowens75 @AllTideUp @Roggespierre @JRsec
After the 1st ACC raided the Big East back in 2002 timeframe, the Big East agreed to do a Friday night game with ESPN. Yes - at that time, having a night game during the week was bad for the teams - but in terms of media exposure it was great..
This time around, would expect ESPN to go about this one conference for each night. Say Big1G on Monday night, SEC on Tuesday night...
@DanHogan @Roggespierre @Astakaderas
I live in Virginia. The invite for Virginia Tech to join the ACC had the Governor of Virginia insisting the ACC take VT instead of Syracuse. VT and UVA do not like each other. Oddly, after VT joined the ACC - state funding to UVA increased. And odder still, if you check ESPN where they list the revenue/expenses by Athletic Departments, you will find that UVA and VT are almost the same. Never was in the past.
To me. if UVA goes Big1G, then I would expect VT to prefer the SEC, but might go to the Big 12 (if its time to run from a crumbling ACC).
Rutgers gives the Big1G New Jersey but really does not guarantee the city/state of New York. If the Big1G took Syracuse they would have the New York state viewers.
1 year, 1 month ago on Big Bang Theories: The Countdown To Super-Conferences (Part 4)
ESPN vs Fox vs Comcast/NBC will be interesting.
As a businesss consultant, it has always been hard to get people to change from what they have been doing. If things are going well, you hear "why should I change?". If things are going bad, there are fears "you'll only make it worse."
ESPN has been successful at what they do. ESPN wants to preserve what they have and to defend themselves from attacks (Fox, and Comcast/NBC Sports).
Both Fox and Comcast/NBC wants a bigger piece of the market - and today, that means taking conferences from ESPN.
Fox has a more aggressive mind-set and may be willing to pay more (either to a conference as it currently exists or if that conference add new members. Especially if adding that school will weaken a conference that is aligned with ESPN.)
Does anoyone know if the network contracts being offered now are for longer terms (10 years?) than contracts in the past?
@SouthernBoiSB @mowens75 @larryphelps20 @JRsec @JansonRoberts
There was a time (19070's - 80's ?) that UNC had a very good football team that year after year, went to bowl games (before there were 35 bowls). That coach left for Texas - Mack Brown.
The same can be said for Duke. For a while, Duke had a football coach that was famous for passing. He left Duke and took ove at Florida. Name? Steve Spurrier.
At the time both men left, it was said that at their school, football was a distance second (or lower) to the focus on basketball.
Over the past couple of years, I have seen it said several times that Clemson and Florida State, both more football oriented, feel like the ACC is more focused on basketball. And that both schools are falling farther behind when compared to their in-state rivals - both of which are in the SEC (South Carolina and Florida). How long can they wait to match their rival's SEC cash flow before they are too far behind to catch up?
Both Coack K and Roy Williams pushed for the addition of Syracuse and Pitt to improve the ACC's basketball reputation.
All of which sounds very similar to fans of the BIg East. Back before 2002, Miami pushed for changes in the Big East.. When nothing happened, Virginia Tech, Miami, and Boston College left for the ACC.
Reacting to this, the Big East considered merging with C-USA. That didn't work out. The non-football schools in the Big East told the football playing schools they should probably all go ahead and leave and form a new conference. But they would not be allowed to take the name "Big East" nor would they be allowed to take the Big East's position in the BCS bowl games. (What use was a football bowl to non-football playing schools?) A middle of the road solution, was to invite several C-USA schools to join the Big East.
You could say, the Big East became more like C-USA. While the ACC becomes more like the Big East every time the ACC adds another Big East school.
Wouldn't it just have been a lot simpler to change the name of the conferences?
I think Clemson and FSU move first. The Big1G and SEC sees this, and then steps in to fight over the remaining ACC's top programs.
@JRsec @AllTideUp @JansonRoberts @SouthernBoiSB
Remember TCU signed to join the Big East and then decided to switch to the Big 12 instead.
Boise State and San Diego State U (SDSU) both signed documents to head to the Big East but then decided to stay where they were. Boise State didn't have the smartest lawyers and must pay an exit fee to the Big East. SDSU's lawyers inserted a clause that if the Big East had no members west of the Mississippi, then SDSU could exit without paying an exit fee. Once Boise State said they were not joining the Big East, the Big East then had no members west of the Mississippi - so SDSU gets a free exit. Meanwhile, their conference has agreed to help Boise State to pay the Big East's exit fee.
It depends on political agreements and lawyers.
Even Notre Dame - as a condition for joining the ACC, for all sports except football, agreed to play more football games against ACC teams (5 per year?) than Notre Dame had done while in the Big East (maybe 1 game per year?).
A big grab by a conference of more than 2 new members would set off howls of protests. And could lead to serious political/legal responses.
The ACC took 2 from the Big East (Pitt & Syracuse) - which started another run for the exit by Big East schools. The Big1G (being smarter?), took 1 school from the Big East (Rutgers) and 1 school from the ACC (Maryland) thus being seen as smaller attacks against 2 fellow conferences. While the ACC is seen as the killer of the Big East. And with the ACC having so many former Big East schools ..is the ACC still the ACC or has the ACC become that which it has made so many negative comments about ..has the ACC become the Big East?
I think GREED and FEAR will be the deciding factors.
If the ACC is left out of the football playoff, there will be teams eager - desperate to leave the ACC.
So far the conference expansions (except for Notre Dame into the ACC) has always been a step of 2 schools.
If the Big1G or SEC or even the Big 12, takes 2 teams from the ACC - would the other conferences let that happen without also taking 2 teams?
And if 1, 2, or 3 conferences each take 2 teams = total of 6 teams from the ACC. At what point does the exits from the ACC start to look like the current stampede to get out of the Big East? At what point would an ACC school - decide to be like West Virginia and be eager to get a definite invite now - as opposing to waiting to see if things work out for the ACC?
@JRsec @vp81955 @KyleTaft
As diverse as they are, there has been times when the major schools banned together to make changes. They may end up doing it again, it seems like they are stepping towards that with the conference re-alignments.
Used to be, ABC had the contract to show college football. 1 nationwide game per week and 4 regional games. No one else showed anything.
Oklahoma sued. Evenutally, 63 other schools - some would say the largest schools - joined with Oklahoma to sue. The result was the formation of the College Football Association. It was decided that each conference could negotiate their own contract with the tv outlets. The SEC and Big East broke away from the other conferences and signed their own tv deals first.
Another time, was when they went to form Div I (now called BCS) and Div II (now called Football Championship Subdivision). Some schools lobbied that they didn't want to be considered as Div II - so they were eventually allowed to stay in Div I (Mid-American Conference, etc). But are these...schools really competitive at the "top tier" power school level? Should they be re-assigned to their own subdivision?
Another issue was why should a big school's vote within the NCAA be equal to a small school? Today, for example, Ohio State has a $125 M/year athletic budget - that is far greater than some schools entire operating budget. Are they really on the same level with the small schools? University of Virginia and Virginia Tech are both ranked between 40th and 50th, in terms of how much money they spent on their athletic programs ($75 m/year?). ESPN's website posts the figures but the webpage hasn't work properly for months - you cannot see all the schools in Div I.
If enough schools ban together, to oppose the NCAA - then the NCAA will change so it can survive.
After joining the Big1G, Nebraska lost their AAU accrediation. For the Big1G to jump to Georgia Tech that would be into a state that does not border the BIG1G's footprint. So far, they have not shown a willingness to do that.
Georgia Tech may be left watching the others move.
That's what I think they will try to do. Will the Big1G accept that taking 3 schools is the price for getting into the state of NC is the real issue.
If I was the Big1G commissioner, I would go after UNC, Duke, UVA and Syracuse. This seems to fit in what the BigG did when they recently added Maryland and Rutgers. Both schools are in a state that borders the current Big1G's borders and the school is in the AAU (based upon academic research). Also, the deal with both of these schools was worked out in private by the key political players. There were no leaked rumors to the press and no comments by any of the coaching staffs. Neither Maryland nor Rutgers has recently won national champhionships but they have reasonable sports programs that could be grown inside the BIg1G.. Both are in states with large populations - thus tv viewers.
The other year when there was talk of the Big1G expanding, and might be interested in Pitt & Syracuse - the men's basketball coaches at both schools made statements to the press that it would be stupid to leave the Big East.
I bet, the boss of the coaches "explained to them, that it was not their job to question his actions.
The past year, when both school accounced they were leaving - it was already a done deal and then both coaches issued public statements about how good the move was for the school.
Syracuse and the recent addition of Rutgers gets you into the New York and New Jersey markets.. Syracuse's men basketball coach is now #2 in active coaches in wins, he just passed Bobby Knight. #1 is Duke's coach K who does not appear to be thinking of retiring. Syracuse's Boeheim has been outspoken over the years about his dislike of the thought of leaving the Big East. At his age, he may retire rather than coach in a new conference.
Adding UVA, a AAU school, extends the BIG1G's borders to the North Carolina state line and brings the state of Virginia in.
Adding UNC and Duke, both AAU schools, gets you the state of North Carolina. Will the Tobacco Road schools break up and leave Wake (certainly) and maybe NCState behind (possible)? Maybe. It all depends on how badly the ACC is changing and the money.
When West Virginia wanted out of the Big East, they were willing to pay the record setting $25 M exit fee and accepted a reduce rate for 3 years from the Big 12. While in the Big East WVU got about $3 - 4.5 m/year. The Big12 payout, full share, is about $20 m/year.
Politicians are the wide card in all of this. Back in the 2002 timeframe, when the ACC was inviting BC, Miami, and Syracuse to leave the Big East, the Governor of Virginia, Mark Warner announced the state's attorney general would sue the ACC for hurting the Big East (and Virginia's member Virginia Tech). After it was announced that Syracuse would not join (men's basketball coach Boeheim spoke out against the move) but that Virgina Tech would take their place - then Virginia's Governor Warner announced that he had really told the ACC the state of Virginia would sue if they did not take Virginia Tech. Voters in Virginia responded to this lie, by electing the Governor to the US Senate.
For years, a complaint about the ACC was that the Tobacco Roads schools (UNC, Duke, NCState, and Wake Forest) voted as agroup and ran the ACC. Will they now abandon the lesser members for bigger money? At this point, anything is still possible. It all depends if the ACC starts to crumble like the Big East has done.
The state of NC has a history of working as a single group. The Tobacco Road schools - UNC, NCS, Duke, and (little) Wake Forest has moved and voted as a single block for over 50 years That history goes back to when they were members of the old Southern Conference..
When the original ACC voted to add Georgia Tech in 1978, concerns were voiced in repeated public statements that by adding a member to the ACC, it would lessen the voting power of the Tobacco Road schools.
The ACC didn't add another member until FSU in 1991.. The same concerns were voiced along with that FSU was of a lesser academic quailty but that the ACC had to do something to improve its football reputation.
I work in state gov in the mid-Atlantic region.. I research getting federal grants. The most feared competitor is the state of NC. They always come into the game as a group with coordination and the support of all communities, at all levels (cities, counties, and state government) within the state.. The federal government usually spreads the money around the nation to gain political support. But I have seen several programs where the state of NC gets over 50% of the available funds.
NC truly understands voting power.
The ACC, after so many raids of the Big East, has become the Big East. No only in its membership, but also as being seen as the conference for the Power 4 cconferences to pick from. The ACC will be the next conference to have major changes in its membership.
The NC schools are probably working outside the public spotlight, to have a plan on moving as a group should (when) the ACC fall. I would expect them to offer a new conference to come in as a pod - UNC, Duke, NCState, and Wake. Wake may not win the 4th invite, I can see that going to UVa. And that pod going to the Big1G.
These schools would not be a fit in the SEC. The ACC, back in its early days, refused the addition of West Virginia because the previous year WVU had gone to a bowl game. There was even a time when only the ACC basketball tournamant winner, was allowed to compete in post season play - even though the ACC had 4 teams in the top 20.
Things change, but its often very slow. Leaving Wake behind so they can join the Big1G will be seen in NC as a major change.
I worked for 30+ in state gov in the mid-atlantic region. Was in contact with agency directors in state government and ..seasoned bureaucrats. Lying and political tricks never ended. The higher up I made contacts, the more disgusting it became.
Many people think a fight is fought face to face. Masters of the trade will not do that. They
use someone else to do their bidding. That way, if there are any complaints.."well I didn't do it." Its the old mis-direction trick.
If the media was caught telling the conferences what to do, to squeeze out the smaller schools, there would be a public outcry for a Congressional investigation. But if the conferences ask the networks for a new contract because the conference is adding a new member, then the media outlet is avoid of any blame.
We have grown to about 35 bowl games. That is 70 schools in play. Yet there are only about 124 schools in Div I. (and some say, March Madness has too many schools in the event....?)
Used to be going to a bowl meant your school had a great year. Past couple of years, teams with 7-5 and even 6-6 records are in some bowls..you have to ask.."why are they being played?" Most of the bowls are on ESPN. And the stands at most bowls have plenty of empty seats. Schools invited to a bowl must buy a specific number of tickets. West Virginia's AD Oliver Luck said many schools going to a bowl, lose money when they cannot sell their tickets. When UConn played in a BCS bowl, the school lost money! So who benefits from so many bowl games? The local business owners and the media outlet that broadcasts the game. And most of the games are on......ESPN.
The networks are having problems paying writes and prooducing shows that people want to watch. Programs with just people talking are cheaper. But just broadcasting a sporting event ..means no writers, no special effects, etc. It just cheaper to put on a college sport sprogram.
As for the separation of media broadcaster and the schools - visit the BCS website. Notice the color and structure of the various webpages. Then jump to the ESPN webpage. Feel like you are still at the same website?
At least we are making progress. We now have a 4 team play-off on the horizon. Michael Kelly who was a Senior Associate Commissioner of the ACC is the Chief Operating Officer for the group that will oversee the playoff. Interesting that no one from a power conference (SEC, Big1G, PAC-12, Big12) was selected.
When ESPN started, the Big East was the first to sign up for college basketball.
A year before the Big East's contract was up with ESPN, ESPN proposed a new contract at higher rates.
The Big East officials that held the contract discussions with ESPN were chaired by the AD from Pitt.
The Big East turned down ESPN's offer so the Big East could seek bids from rival media outlets (Fox and NBC/Comcast).
It was then announced that Pitt & Syracuse were leaving to go to the ACC. The AD at Boston College said in a news interview that ESPN told ACC officials which schools to add from the Big East. He later swore he had been mis-quoted, but you have to wonder.
Contact between the ACC and the Pitt AD were probably occuring at the same time the Pitt AD recommended turning down ESPN's offer.
Divorces can get ugly in a hurry. Apparently, even the posibility of offering your media inventory to others can spark an attact..
@AllTideUp @Hkjbr @JRsec
I agree - I think the SEC said "not now" to WV. With WV (state population about 1.2 M) signing away their media rights to the Big 12, leaving the Big 12 within the next 6 (?) years will be almost impossible.
I think the Big12 made a big mistake in taking TCU instead of Louisville. Lousiville would have put the state of Kentucky into play while TCU is another region of Texas. And it would have maintained a rival for WVU within driving distance.
Current rumor is the Big12 is asking the NCAA if they can have a conference championship game with only 10 schools - instead of the current requirement for 12 schools.This is a change from last summer when they said it was more advantage to avoid their top team playing an extra game and risking going down in the polls before bowl/playoff selection.
No school left in the old Big East adds enough to warrant an invite from the Big 12. At best, the Big 12 gets any left over teams from the ACC that are not taken by SEC and Big1G. Still, if the Big 12 moves first - and I do not see that happening - they might add some good schools.
@Hkjbr @edelswick @AllTideUp @JRsec
I like the "old days" when West Virginia had regional rivals with Virginia Tech, Pitt, Maryland, and Penn State. Wished they could have played with Ohio State, Kentucky, and Tennessee as well. All within driving distance for tailgate parties. Rivals that close, you keep inform on their every details - both good and bad.
The way things are changing, its all about greed.
West VIrginia traveling over 1,000 miles to play their nearest conference rival is sad. And WVU paid a high price ($25 ) to the Big East to get out - before it fell apart. And WVU had to agree to reduce money sharing for the first 3 years in the Big12. But WVU (3-0 in BCS bowl games) was turned down by the ACC (2-13 in BCS bowl games). SEC said "no". Big1G???
WVU could either wait to see how things played out..or go for the best available option. That turned out to be the Big 12,
@AllTideUp @JRsec @Hkjbr
That would help sell it to the political players - the Governors and state legislators. Ohio State and Virginia Tech have played the FCS schools in their state for years. And it still provides a pipeline of money to the FCS schools.
Another thing, a couple of years back when Big1G expansion was discussed in terms of Pitt and Syracuse to the ACC, both basketball coaches were negative about it in public. Once the issue die down in the press, a year or so later it was announced that these schools were changing conferences. On a Saturday, they inform the Big East conference commisioner they were leaving. On Sunday morning, the new conference (ACC) announced that they had been accepted. The 2 basketball coaches then issued public statements about how great it was for the school to change conferences.
Same approach was used this year with Maryland and Rutgers to the Big1G.
I would bet someone "explained" to the coaches that the coach's responsibility is limited to playing in whatever conference the school is in - and the decision on conference is not the "current coach's" responsibility. As it is often said......"they got on the same page".
They learned from their mistakes in the past. Would expect this same approach to be used again. With the crumbling of the Big East, the ACC (3-13 in BCS bowl games?) has now become the weakest conference at the "big boys" table. With the difference in money, it only a matter of time until more changes occur.
Years ago, Oklahoma sued ABC to break-up ABC selecting 4 regional games each week and 1 national game. Oklahoma was joined by (some would say. the biggest) 64 schools in a class action lawsuit. This is how the College Football Association was formed. It stayed in existance until each conference signed their own contract with a network.
When they started to form Div I (now called BCS) and Div II (now called FCS), several schools were against being labelled as Div II, They fought and were included in "Div I". At that time, each school had a egual sized vote.
Last summer, one topic that leaked out of the playoff discussions was whether or not it should be limited to only conference champions. If/when we end up with mega-conferences then watch the ? of "only conference champs" come up again. That way, each conference would host a game within their footprint and keep all the money.
The current BCS approach treats Notre Dame VERY SPECUAL. Hopefully, this will end with larger conferences. Under the BCS approach Notre Dame is paid over $1 M/year for being considered by the BCS. And Notre Dame receives, by formula, an additional amount if they play in a BCS bowl game. At the BCS "table" are the major conferences and Notre Dame with an equal vote. That just is not fair (is Notre Dame = SEC or Big1G or PAC-12 or Big-12) ??
So eventually, what is now called Div I, or the BCS schools, should have a smaller membership and only play teams within that division. (Each year, the current BCS pays a lump sum to 2 military service academies and the FCS. To buy their support?)
History tends to repeat itself - if it worked before...why not now? Years ago, the Big East expelled Temple because Temple was not fielding a competitive football program. So in the future rounds of conference re-alignment, some memberships may be up for grabs.
Today the Big1G, SEC and ACC have teams that are not competitve with the rest of their conference. Tomorrow? Indiana has good basketball teams, but when was the last time you could say that about their football team? Duke has great basketball, but it was back in the days of Steve Spurrier that they had a good football team. SEC's Vanderbilt is doing better, but are they a major player in the SEC?.
And if its football cash that is feuling the conference changes...are their memberships ..permanent?