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@JasonFitz1 @ErichBischof Well, not exactly. A heavy or lighter weight can get the same job accomplished IF you take the set to failure or close to it. It's the theory of orderly recruitment.
3 years ago on Why All Runners Should Strength Train
@Fit2Play Do you know what a strawman argument is? That isn't an insult. It's a type of logical fallacy.
Which of my comments are "borderline insane?" Again, more insults. Rather than attack the person, comment on my statments with specifics.
"I'm sorry you do not see the benefits in the exercises I shared. I have many tools and get a myriad of folks fit, whether they're elite athletes or general fitness enthusiast. It truly shows your ignorance not to see benefit in something other than an HIT protocol."
Strawman arguments once again. I did not say that only HIT is beneficial. I asked you why you asked your clients/athletes to perform those tasks. What is the purpose of them? Can you answer the question?
"You live in a different world."
No actually I don't.
"Communicating with you is like talking to my cat...ya know she's smart, but all she wants to say is one word, meow / HIT."
More strawman arguments and insults. If you have something substantial to say that supports your position, why not say it?
@Fit2Play "Lol...because they're outstanding exercises / movements."
Outstanding for what purpose? What it the purpose of these movements? Why do you ask people to perform then? What is the intended outcome? How do these benefit the athlete/client? What are they missing out on if they only practice their skill and strength train as productively as possible? And if you have a cogent answer, please provide references to support your claim.
"As I said, you're a smart guy...most of the HIT folks were / are. That doesn't mean you're right...and the research, please! You guys have been beaten up by the rest of the world for decades by people way smarter than me. You don't budge, and think your "two training sessions per week" is all ANYONE needs...and all EVERYONE needs. Absurd!"
The people who, as you say, "beat up" us HIT folks as you label us, are almost always entirely ignorant of the research and waste enormous amounts of time in the gym in order to live in the gym.
Two weekly strength training sessions, if organized and executed properly, will absolutely provide the athlete with maximum benefit. Sure, you can design a 5 day a week program and waste the athletes time and over train them.
"Fred, I'm a little slow, hang with me. You say, the amount of training depends on the athletes training schedule. Then say that no athlete will benefit from more than two high intensity training sessions per week. So what you're really saying is that athletes will train 0, 1, or 2 times per week and never more, got it."
I said that all any athlete requires for maximum benefits from resistance training is two sessions a week. More than this is not going to offer them any special benefits. Stop creating strawmen arguments. Please cite a single study that suggests more than two weekly RT sessions provides greater benefits to the athlete.
In fact, a recent study conducted by Wayne Westcott showed that young athletes got better results training one time a week as opposed to two and younger people recover more quickly than adults.
"Thank you for sharing the opinions of the HIT community. In full disclosure, probably only a few of the readers of this blog really understands what the HIT Jedi's really did, meaning what "high intensity" sessions were / are. What I'm saying is that I agree with after one HIT session you need time to recover. I'm also saying that it's simply crazy to think everyone should train like that for all sports / events / general fitness, not to mention the durability and longevity of life."
Do you have to be so snarky? Your opinion is duly noted. You don't train using HIT for anything other than developing strength and increases in lean tissue. Strength training is the single best exercise you can perform for general fitness BTW.
"Weight lifting everyday is not advisable...I guess. With that said, I could have a high level runner (almost any athlete) perform Turkish Get-ups, Bear Crawls up and down hills or staircases, suite case carrying heavy loads and other loaded and or unloaded body weight exercises on a daily basis, "
Why would you ask an athlete to perform these "exercises?" For what purpose? The idea is to perform the LEAST amount of exercise necessary not try and find entertaining ways to over work and potentially injure your athlete.
"If you're saying weight lifting as in Olympic Lifting...daily, sure...but then one could argue your earlier recommendation of only 2x per week."
Actually, Olympic lifting can be done almost everyday since the nature of it is not high in intensity. It is more of a skill than an exercise modality for improving strength (which it does of course) and hypertrophy. The recommendation for twice weekly training isn't my opinion.
"Research also indicates that virtually all the benefits of resistance training are likely to be obtained in two 15- to 20-min training sessions a week."
"Well, I've been around for more than 20+ years as well, my mentors closer to 40+ years. I would respectively suggest you get out of the books and into the trenches."
I am in both. You should get into the books.
"You simply cannot make such a broad statement regarding the 2x per week thing...it's just wrong. "
No it's not as I have indicated above.
"Can you get good results strength training 2x per week? Sure. Is it optimal? I don't know, and neither do you."
I never said it was optimal. I SAID that it depends on the athletes training schedule. I SAID research indicates that 2 weekly HIT sessions produce all the benefits that strength training can bestow and that there is little evidence to suggest that more than two weekly sessions will produce superior outcomes.
"This started out "for runners" and now you've thrown "athletes" into the mix."
Runners are athletes.
"Not sure what planet you're living on, but it sounds like the HIT camp...are they still barking up trees?"
That is a childish response.
"Really, you cannot have strength and power without mass? Ugh... I don't even know where to begin..."
Strawman. I was suggesting that if you become stronger (truly stronger as opposed to improved skill), hypertrophy will occur. That increased strength and hypertrophy go hand in hand.
"Yes, runners, depending on their schedule may need less resistance training. Again, to say more is never better is silly. Better than what?"
Better for the athlete's body.
"I'm sure you have evidence that states strength training 2x per week is more than enough. BUT...show me the athletes that are winning with those recommendations."
Completely beside the point. I can show you great athletes that don't lift weights at all.
"Show me the (high level) coaches that have used this for the last 20 years vs. coaches that are lifting (strength training) 3, 4, and 5 times per week."
Beside the point. And there are many pro coaches who have their athletes train 1-2 times a week for as little as 20-30 minutes. Dan Riley is one of them. John Philbin is another. Kim Wood. Many.
"Mr. Hahn, I disagree with your recommendations for runners / athletes. It's so off base. I'd encourage anyone reading this to do your research -- as I said before, seek out a qualified coach that can put together a strength program specifically for you. Do not think that a generic 2x per week recommendation will suffice based on what any one person says that has not taken into account the "YOU" factor. They call this the principle of individuality."
Once again, I SAID that the amount of training depends on the athletes training schedule. Let me repeat that - it depends on the athletes training schedule. However, no athlete will benefits from more than 2 high intensity weight lifting sessions. The body requires a recovery period. Any coach that asks the athlete to train for increases in strength/hypertrophy is ignorant of basic principles of exercise physiology and because of this ignorance, over trains and over works the athlete leading them to potential injury and decreased performance.
"Again, I disagree. To say that it takes 48-96 hours to recover is too broad of a statement. It may take me 5 days to recover from a heavy deadlift day, or I could lift next day depending on the volume and whatever else I've got going on."
The point is weight lifting everyday is a mistake.
"We've been telling runners to "strength train" for decades, and to now tell them that at most they should lift twice per week is incorrect (it's too general)."
I am talking from 20+ years of experience and from what science shows. There is little evidence that training more than twice a week is beneficial and that for athletes, less training is better.
"Not sure runners are strength training for hypertrophy -- strength / power, for sure, but to add mass...not so much (at least the runners I know)."
You can't have one without the other.
"Depending on the trainee, and where they are in their competitive season (if they're racers or general fitness enthusiasts), will dictate the volume or "how much" strength training they should or could be doing. DO NOT take everything that you read online as gospel."
That is what I said. Sometimes runners, depending on their schedule may need less training. But more weight lifting is never better.
"Mr. Hahn, could be right on with his recommendation of twice a week, or it could being a recommendation that keeps you in the middle of the pack. We're all individuals and should train as such -- seek out a fitness coach, someone that "gets" what you the individual needs. The "one-size-fits-all"...doesn't."
I didn't say one size fits all. I SAID the amount of training depends on the runners schedule. But science shows that 2 days a week of lifting will provide all the benefits that strength training can bestow.
@Fit2Play It is scientifically established that recovery is required after a weight lifting session. If you train everyday, you will over-train quite rapidly and even see decreases in size and strength. High intensity strength training, which is by far the most productive method for inducing strength and hypertrophy, requires the lifter to take ~48-96 hours for full recovery between strength sessions. Runners legs may need even more depending on their running schedule.
Good article however, no one should lift weights or perform resistance training everyday. The body needs recovery. Runners would do best to weight train twice weekly tops depending on their running schedule. Some may do better weight lifting only once a week. And most runners would run better if they ran less often.