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@nolonger21 @onmywayup I wholeheartedly agree with this statement.
3 hours, 2 minutes ago on Is the Grass Greener Across the Pond? Two Views on Interracial Relationships in Europe
@LeonV So are you saying that black people in Holland might struggle professionally/in terms of their career, rather than romantically?I do agree that the US (while not without its problems) is great for upward mobility.
3 hours, 3 minutes ago on Is the Grass Greener Across the Pond? Two Views on Interracial Relationships in Europe
@DWB @onmywayup @Keioni Really? I didn't know this.
Is it a common thing for white women to cut off their hair?
3 hours, 6 minutes ago on Is the Grass Greener Across the Pond? Two Views on Interracial Relationships in Europe
Oh lawd...my 2 am rant made it onto the blog!
3 hours, 14 minutes ago on Time to Dispel “Black Women at the Bottom of the Barrel” Nonsense!
@KawaiiCutie I don't believe this either.
I wrote my initial comment because I remember what it was like to feel and experience life as someone who thought she was at the bottom of the barrel.
Honestly, shedding that mindset is like destroying a ceiling, and breaking it into tiny pieces.
I wish I'd never believed it at all, but I'm glad to be free of it now.
I won't go around saying that race doesn't matter. But for me, I can honestly say that the quality of my life improved once I realized that there was so much within my control...and that became my focus.
3 hours, 16 minutes ago on Time to Dispel “Black Women at the Bottom of the Barrel” Nonsense!
@dani-BBW You're absolutely right. I actually wanted to go deeper into this (and maybe some of the other issues as well) because I don't think we focus enough on the "how," even though we talk a lot about the "what" and the "why."
I don't blame the women for being clueless (as I called it), but I do want to bring it to attention so that those of us who do deal with this issue can learn how to get out of this situation.
3 hours, 24 minutes ago on Time to Dispel “Black Women at the Bottom of the Barrel” Nonsense!
It just reminds me of a time when an acquaintance of mine made an observation that the non-black guys she was dating had it more together than the black guys she dated.
Another friend (not of mine, but of hers) told her that she should realize that since black men are held down by The Man (tm) in this country, she should lower her standards for black men and just consider dating them if they were good men*.
I can't believe it, but the acquaintance actually said, "Yeah, you're right, I never thought of that," and internalized that mess.
So since black men are disadvantaged**, black women should take pity on their plight and stay loyal.
Yeah, that's been working out really well for most of us.
*What's a good man, anyway? For some, it means you haven't been to jail. Sorry, but my standards are a tiny bit higher than that.
**And black women just have it sooooo easy! Not.
13 hours, 10 minutes ago on Issa Rae, Jacque Reid and Others Talk Interracial Relationships on “Nightly Show”
*The BW/AM thing is still relatively rare, and I would never encourage a black woman to limit herself to dating only Asian men, unless she were only attracted to them and was willing to move to Asia. But...personal experience. If you meet one on an individual level who is more enlightened (i.e. his family isn't against his dating/marrying IR), the two of you hit it off, and you are compatible. Then snag him and run like the wind, girl!
**Especially in interracial marriages--we're the fastest-growing group as far as that's concerned.
13 hours, 21 minutes ago on Issa Rae, Jacque Reid and Others Talk Interracial Relationships on “Nightly Show”
Re: this whole "bottom of the barrel" stuff:
I'm writing this post because @Leona_LoveQuest made a good point that many black women do struggle with dating interracially, or we wouldn't even have this blog.
I'm all for addressing the issues that some black women are facing, but I'd rather get into the actual issues.
"Black women are at the bottom" doesn't actually do justice to what's going on. I think we need a more detailed discussion.
I mean this could be a huge discussion, because there are many factors depending on who we're talking to.
1. There's social stigma involved.
Yes, there are men who can't take being teased, or who don't want to risk their social lives and careers. Or displeasing their parents. You also have your run-of-the-mill racists.
That's on them, but I don't bother with them.
2. You have the "it's okay to date you in private, but you'll never meet my family" types. I don't even go near these men.
3. Or, occasionally, the "I'm dating you because you're not a spoiled white woman" type. Now admittedly there are some men who might find the black woman they're with a breath of fresh air after being put through the wringer with their ex, who may have an entitlement complex similar to a lot of black men in this country. So I wouldn't blame those men for feeling this way. But there are also men who use this as an excuse to treat you like crap, or like a novelty item.
I almost dated one of these types. He pretty much wanted to stick it to his "dumpy" white ex and prove that he could pull a hotter, younger chick. And in this case, being black was a draw because you know we aren't demanding and spoiled like those white women are. (/sarcasm)
I felt like a domestic mail-order bride. Thanks, but no thanks.
4. Or black women who are afraid to date out because of black community norms (this has been discussed a lot).
5. Not hanging around in the correct environments at an early enough age, not coming of age in the right time or place (for example, if you were 20 twenty years ago or if you are 20 now and are stuck in Mississippi...where about half of its inhabitants don't even approve of IR dating, you might face challenges).
6. There are also issues like lack of savvy. I've seen a lot of young black women struggle with something that I call a kind of cluelessness. That is, they are not strategic enough in looking for a man. In college, everyone else was studying and dating. Whereas these women were just studying. Many of them also either held out for one of the few black men, or opted to remain single. Some of them dealt with the church doctrine of waiting for a man to drop out of the sky. (Actually, I know this isn't the actual doctrine, but that's how some people seemed to interpret it.) Many wouldn't try activities that were outside of the black box. And then they leave college, and things get worse. They get into this routine of work, hanging out with friends, and church and their social life is not very conducive to meeting new men.
7. And then there are black women who grew up in the majority white suburbs, like me. Some of us are fortunate. We 'get' it and can mingle and date like anyone else.
Some of us didn't. We were the 'ugly' chick in high school (because conformist non-black kids were too afraid to admit they had a crush on you until after you graduated college) and never quite recovered from that, so we stay on the sidelines while the white girls have their fun. We do the right activities but we never fully put ourselves out there, and it doesn't really occur to us to highlight our best advantages physically. Yes, our physical appearance and how we present ourselves makes a first impression, as does body language. And when you don't think you are an attractive or desirable woman, you present yourself in a particular way. A way that doesn't come across as a desirable mate.
8. You have black women who are too black male identified, as @Vivaforever (I think it was) mentioned below. And you find these women at all socioeconomic strata. Women like these do not realize how alienating this mentality is.
9. Then there are some who just live in the plain wrong section of the country. Though I think this is like the "bottom of the totem" stuff in that it is an overused excuse. I've heard people use this excuse for places that are considered interracial dating havens for black women. So location is important, but it's not as important as we think it is.
There are also other factors that work in concert that may lead to varying experiences for black women.
Note that many of the people on this blog who don't have issues dating out are younger. Perhaps thinner. Often childless. (Have you noticed that even men with children seem to want to settle down with childless women? What's that about?) They live in sections of the US that are a bit more conducive to IR dating. Have off the wall interests and don't associate with the black construct.
Thanks to intersectionality, things like your age, your weight, how many children you do or don't have, your education, and other factors also determine how you 'show up' in this world to other people. For example, a childless black woman may be advantaged compared to a single mother. A black single mother may see more challenges than white single mothers (oddly enough, I've seen white single mothers get married faster than I've seen black single mothers do this, but am not sure if this is just me). And a single mother who has one child may have it easier than someone who has multiple children.
All these things matter, and this is what we really want to discuss. Being a black woman with certain individual issues, and how those issues merge to become an 'issue' for black women in the dating marketplace. And how to navigate the dating scene with common issues that women are having.
Not just some blanket, "black women are at the bottom" nonsense.
P.S. Issa Rae is wrong about Asian men. They may be disadvantaged in the dating market compared to Asian women, but they still 'date out' more than other races and are the most married men in this country. The 'bottom of the barrel' thing is only a perception for them, rather than a reality. In many ways, Asian men are winning. Quietly*.
I suspect the same is true for black women--for although we are the least married women in the country and date out the least, there has been such a rapid shift in this** in the past five or so years that it is beginning to seem to me that we really were our own worst enemies in this.
13 hours, 27 minutes ago on Issa Rae, Jacque Reid and Others Talk Interracial Relationships on “Nightly Show”
@Statuesque Your comments are always refreshing.
18 hours, 13 minutes ago on Is the Grass Greener Across the Pond? Two Views on Interracial Relationships in Europe
@Keioni I find it interesting that men find it okay to comment on this. I've never heard men tell white women to stop dyeing their hair, and a lot of them do.
I know people mean well, but I find it odd that the default assumption is that we are ashamed of ourselves for choosing to wear our hair how we want, rather than wanting to express ourselves.
18 hours, 20 minutes ago on Is the Grass Greener Across the Pond? Two Views on Interracial Relationships in Europe
@trinigirl1 @Vivaforever This entire conversation is the truth.
18 hours, 52 minutes ago on Issa Rae, Jacque Reid and Others Talk Interracial Relationships on “Nightly Show”
@Ri74 "There is a such a thing as negotiation and the Art of War. It wasn't until (hang my head in shame about this) I was in my late 30's that I learned about the art of negotiation. I had read the Art of War and applied to my life somewhat successfully. I had also read Prince Machavelli's writings. (If you haven't picked up that thin instruction book, do so. Some of the stuff in it you will see being done and it is mind boggling when you connect the dots!) But the art of negotiation (I don't know any books that spell it out simply) is one of the greatest tools. That none of these women seemingly possess. Or they would be a lot further by now. Seriously."
This is something that needs to be emphasized.
More strategic thinking, negotiation, and marketing ourselves positively.
Less magical thinking and leaving things to chance.
18 hours, 59 minutes ago on Issa Rae, Jacque Reid and Others Talk Interracial Relationships on “Nightly Show”
@Public123 Great observation.
To be perfectly honest, I am ready to move on.
The "we're at the bottom" mentality kept me stagnant for years. It became a crutch, a reason not to take a serious look at myself and make improvements.
When I looked at what I could control: my presentation, my social circles, my self-talk (and a whole bunch of other things), I found a lot more success in the dating front.
19 hours, 2 minutes ago on Issa Rae, Jacque Reid and Others Talk Interracial Relationships on “Nightly Show”
@Aquagirl1 @onmywayup Yep, thanks for clarifying. What you are saying here is actually what I meant by my last sentence, but I was tired when I wrote that last night so it didn't come out right.
1 day, 5 hours ago on Is the Grass Greener Across the Pond? Two Views on Interracial Relationships in Europe
This is just my guess.
I think black American women have a certain type of foreign appeal in Europe. Kind of like how over here, we may be fascinated by men with hot foreign accents.
I don't think American white men lack attraction to black women, but I do think that it's a case of not appreciating what you have in your own backyard.
And interestingly enough...though the first writer's wife didn't like Europe, she still met her husband there. So I still think that it would be easier for a black American woman to get attention abroad. But someone who falls for a European man may have to consider moving and adjusting to a different cultural context.
I've also observed that the UK is more like the US in terms of black/white interracial dating attitudes than other European countries are.
1 day, 13 hours ago on Is the Grass Greener Across the Pond? Two Views on Interracial Relationships in Europe
@thecrazyartist @Leona_LoveQuest @zipporah @KawaiiCutie Wow. Everything you said applies to me.
1 day, 13 hours ago on Andrew and Brooke – A “Perfect For Us” Relationship
@dani-BBW @onmywayup Mostly working on having a more active social life. Trying new things (got some ideas from posts on this blog), with short bursts of online dating.
So far, I don't have an issue attracting men or finding men who want to commit. I have an issue with finding someone I personally want to commit to.
1 day, 13 hours ago on Exciting Announcement: Dani Joins Click, Date, Love!
@Sfbta---but your picture is on this website.
I feel honored that you feel comfortable enough to do this.
1 day, 19 hours ago on Zara: Eight Reasons Why We Love Black Women
@Cami2210 @candi79 Hmmmm....I just might move to Austin.
I will be following along, as I'm going on a dating journey of my own.
1 day, 22 hours ago on Exciting Announcement: Dani Joins Click, Date, Love!
@Statuesque @onmywayup @marie_christine2 "Ask a lightskinned woman with a typical West African features and curvy body type, short 4c hair how privileged she feels, whether her skin color allows her to "opt out" of colorism."
My sister has this general appearance, and I haven't really seen her receive those purported benefits, especially after she decided to go natural.
I think this colorism phenomenon is interesting, and it is likely more accurately described as "you look closer to European" ism, lol.
3 days, 5 hours ago on Want To Know What Black Men REALLY Think Of Black Womanhood? Ask Kanye!
@Law Wanxi @Goddiva Omg the imagery!!
3 days, 6 hours ago on Kid Rock (Crudely) Highlights How Preferences Can Change Over Time
@StarStroy I've noticed this too.
3 days, 6 hours ago on Andrew and Brooke – A “Perfect For Us” Relationship
They sound wayyy more mature than I was in college. Heck, they sound more mature than I am now!
I wish them both the best of luck!
@Cami2210 @trinigirl1 @Sfbta "My dad is Catholic and so many of them seem to be afraid of God."I actually stopped going to church when I realized that I was afraid of God.
Also, I wasn't a fan of some of the manipulation and control tactics I've seen used in many churches to get people to behave or think a certain way.
4 days, 2 hours ago on Zara: Eight Reasons Why We Love Black Women
@Cami2210 @Ri74 @onmywayup @Brenda55 "I still remember a little cousin of mine telling me that Luby's was homecooking"
4 days, 3 hours ago on Zara: Eight Reasons Why We Love Black Women
@Ri74 @Cami2210 @onmywayup @Brenda55 TV dinners? That is bleak. There is nothing filling about those frankenfoods.
I may not enjoy cooking, but I do it anyway. If I had a husband who worked long and difficult hours, I would take one for the team, since my work schedule is more flexible.
@Ri74 @Brenda55 "I used to get my lunches eaten by WM, when I was too broke to buy lunch! LOL! They would give me money for it later but still, going hungry sucked."Lol, what? How? Are you referring to co-workers stealing your food from the fridge?
4 days, 4 hours ago on Zara: Eight Reasons Why We Love Black Women
@Statuesque I am so copying and pasting this into my journal.
@Browncow @Christelyn @500and50 I love Denise's blog. If I can find a way to make the clay rinse less drying, then I'd love to use conditioner more rarely. (Just to save some $$$, lol!)
4 days, 18 hours ago on Home Made Detangler and Shine Enhancer…Apple Cider Vinegar!!
@Veronique Valesquez @GoldenPrecious "Really curious if someone can analyze what they're doing there."Entitlement complex that arises when you combine
a. a black male shortage in the US
b. the fact that certain movements led by black people in this country in earlier times were actually black male focused as opposed to black people focused (unaddressed sexism in civil rights and black power movements)
c.the Mandingo myth, where peen size is the beginning and end of your sexuality and your entire being.
Take an individual who was raised from birth to believe that he is a scarce and valuable commodity. And yet he is threatening to society, so he needs to be treated with kid gloves by those who love him (i.e. black women).
He is given all this with no expectation of returning the favor because he is "disadvantaged" and "has it the worst." Keep in mind that this "building up" of black male stock has come at the expense of the value of black female stock, as black women are put on the backburner to further this pro-black male agenda.
Most women in this country do what is called hypergamy (marrying "up" in terms of career and money prospects) or assortative mating (marrying your "equal"). According to statistics, black women in the US are the only ones who marry down.
To these guys, you are part of an established pattern. Many other black men who are in less than stellar positions are able to get accomplished black women who have it all together. After a while, this 'blessing' becomes an expectation, and a black man who meets some bare minimum requirements feels entitled to a prime black woman.
Traditionally, it was either this...or black women dying alone.
Now, it's a little different. Black women in the US are starting to see that they do not just have to marry black men. As black women marry other men, this leaves a lot of black men who thought they were 'set for life' in the dust.
Hence the raging anger of some of these black men you encounter (and some of the trolls that infest this website). They are learning that their "good" is no longer good enough. However, since these men were taught that their presence is enough, the idea of growing and bettering themselves does not come to mind. What does come to mind is "reminding" black women to come down to their level.
It's like negging in the PUA community. Why does it not occur to them that they can elevate themselves in their minds, rather than putting the woman down? A lot of those men happen to be self-proclaimed "nice guys" who somehow thought that if they ticked some checkboxes, they would get the woman of their dreams. It never occurred to them to find out what women actually wanted and needed, rather than what women should want or need.
DBR BM mentality is like the above, but to an extreme.
4 days, 21 hours ago on Dear Black Men, Did I Hurt Your Feelings? You Don’t KNOW Hurt Feelings…
@Veronique Valesquez @_Toni_ @Marine949 "what can we do to seek protection while BM abuse gets more exposed by the very fact that WW are subject to it?"
That's a good question. Honestly, I'm no expert on what can be done on an individual scale. I know there are precautions one can take to protect themselves from unsavory characters, but I admit to not knowing them all, since I don't need to.
In my case, I do not frequent spaces that are dominated by black men. This is not something that has been done on purpose. It's simply something that happened when I decided that I was willing to pay extra to live in a safe, fairly diverse, exclusive neighborhood. In the past, I have found that when in mostly black enclaves, there was a certain type of black male that felt entitled to my company (where they may not have felt so entitled to the company of the white friend walking next to me).
On a larger scale, I think that all this stuff that is happening to white women is not a good look for this type of black men and can actually help us if we are strategic about it. Feminist sympathizer white women and "sister soldier" black women may fall for the hype, but nobody else is. In previous years, the intimate partner and gender relation failures have been pinned on black women (hence the "nobody wants black women" press that has been so popular for a while), but this type of messaging will become less effective as time goes on.
The major issue I see for black women is that there is a large enough male-identified cohort who will defend DBR black men's actions, and this will lead to our looking guilty by association. After all, if we condone this behavior, we must be "dangerous" too, right? Fortunately, there is a growing number of black women who are dissociating from this particular type of black man. If it comes to light that not even black women support this behavior, then there may be even more sanctions on this type of behavior.
And where did this growing number of women come from? Well, from safe spaces like this one. There are also websites where black women discuss things like street harassment and sexual violence.
We think we're not doing anything with these online accounts...but trust me, we are. :)
4 days, 22 hours ago on Dear Black Men, Did I Hurt Your Feelings? You Don’t KNOW Hurt Feelings…
@Brenda55 and short/no hair. :)
4 days, 22 hours ago on Zara: Eight Reasons Why We Love Black Women
I've already started changing my diet. I'm a big emotional eater, so now I am looking to do other things to cope with my emotions.
Mainly explore my interests. Writing is a big one.
I also thought I wanted to be in a serious relationship by the end of this year. Now I'm not so sure about that. I'm just enjoying all these new connections I'm making and all these people I've met so far this year.
5 days, 2 hours ago on Four Ways to Be Your Best You
Here are some reasons I've heard multiple times that I'll list here:
a. Hair: soft, touchable, and incredibly versatile. One of our many means of physical self-expression.
b. Skin: smooth and soft. I hear a lot about how many of us have soft skin.
c. Eyes: Many of us have big, beautiful, bold eyes. Personally, I've received a lot of compliments on the size and shape of these mesmerizing dark eyes. :)
d. Smiles: I've heard many, many times that we have the best smiles.
e. Lips: enough said. ;)
f. Resilience: not to be confused with the strong black woman trope. But the ability to get. stuff. done. in this tough world is something that many people love and admire.
g. Personalities: many of us have memorable personalities of varying sorts. Warmth, authenticity, kindness, expressiveness, charm...
I love seeing black women in real life embracing their beauty. I personally will unapologetically embrace and express mine, no matter what. And so far, it's working for me.
5 days, 2 hours ago on Zara: Eight Reasons Why We Love Black Women
@BWC @StarStroy @Cami2210 @The Working Home Keeper @onmywayup Oh, I get it now. I must admit that I thought it meant that we had lower standards. I guess it means that we're appreciative and observant of the little things.
I'll take that. :)
5 days, 3 hours ago on Zara: Eight Reasons Why We Love Black Women
@marie_christine2 I'm also coming from a rather peculiar standpoint here. In the US, I'm considered dark-skinned. But where I am originally from, I have been considered brown/ "fair enough," depending on who I am hanging around.
In college, when one of my social circles did consist of mostly black Americans, I dealt with men who made a big deal out of women who were several shades lighter than me. Yet I was light enough for certain colorstruck West African men on that same campus. Total mindf**k right there, honestly.
I grew up around white people mostly, and I really didn't distinguish between myself and the girl who was only a quarter black. To the other white kids, we were both black. It wasn't until I was put into majority black circles (both American and West African) that my skin shade began to make a difference.
So I've been the girl who was "pretty to be dark" or flat out ignored (or worse, "Can you introduce me to your friend?")I've also been the trophy "light-enough" girl.
And I've been the "pretty for a black" girl.
Or completely invisible.
I've done it all, so I get it from all different angles. Lol.
5 days, 17 hours ago on Want To Know What Black Men REALLY Think Of Black Womanhood? Ask Kanye!
@marie_christine2 I think your point is being missed in all this discussion, and it's worth talking about because it's an interesting one.
It's not about whether or not lighter-skinned women have light-skinned privilege. It's about whether or not darker-skinned women should deal with it on this blog by unleashing their pain using negative terms to describe light-skinned women.
I say "no" to that. And I'm someone who is unapologetically for dark-skinned women airing their grievances on here because often they/we are told to shut up. Yes, by all means talk about how Blackistan has mistreated us and told us we are too ugly and undesirable to expect to be partnered up. But calling light-skinned women awful names is not part of the deal for me.
@Cami2210 @StarStroy Lol, #12 wouldn't work for me either, personally. I'm not "spoiled" per se, but low-maintenance I am not! Haha.
5 days, 23 hours ago on Zara: Eight Reasons Why We Love Black Women
@StarStroy @PoetOfDarkness Well...I think there's a way to highlight your features without going over the top.
Like if you have curves, wearing fitted clothes instead of baggy clothes. This doesn't necessarily mean that you're wearing a super-short skirt or have aaallll your cleavage hanging out, lol.
Also, wearing flattering colors and whatever hairstyle fits your face are also examples of highlighting your features.
6 days, 6 hours ago on Dear Black Men, Did I Hurt Your Feelings? You Don’t KNOW Hurt Feelings…
You see, this is why I hate these studies.
"Among fathers that were in the home, black fathers reported spending more time and doing more activities with their children."How the bleep is that even helpful? If most fathers aren't even in the home.
It's like saying that most black men who marry actually marry black women. That neglects the fact that the majority of black men do not marry in the first place.
6 days, 17 hours ago on Black Doctor Wants You To Know: “There are Good Black Men Out There.”
@MeliaFavors @formeonly "Someone challenged him on why he would be in support of black men dating IR when he himself acknowledges that it creates a negative stigma about black women just as he claimed that black women dating white men does to black men. He responded by stating that it isn't the same because it's harmful for black men to be perceived badly because they are the leaders of the race and as such should be powerful, while us women are supposed to submit to them. "So...basically he's trying to be a modern-day slave master.
Dudes like him want to eradicate "white supremacy" and enforce "black male supremacy." And they expect us to take it, like it's supposed to be better.
Thanks, but noooo.
6 days, 19 hours ago on Black Doctor Wants You To Know: “There are Good Black Men Out There.”
And this is why defending yourself against bm trolls is useless.
He made this woman's dating choice all about him and other black men, which is ridiculous.
No thought as to what's best for her. She could die alone, waiting for Black Prince Charming, for all he cared.
Or maybe it is even worse. He might be like that weirdo whose confession I posted upthread.
He might actually want black women to 'die alone.'
I used to think it was productive to justify my choice to date interracially to black men, but screw it because most of them are only trying to protect their ego and their image.
That's not my problem.
@Geekette221B I am definitely ready to go back and talk about dating and finding men of quality.
6 days, 23 hours ago on Black Doctor Wants You To Know: “There are Good Black Men Out There.”
@La_Zairoise Got it.
I don't mean to make it about dark women versus light women. I was simply replying to @_Toni_'s comment about how a lot of black men who claim to be married to black women are actually married to women on the lighter end of the spectrum.
1 week ago on Black Doctor Wants You To Know: “There are Good Black Men Out There.”
@ChocolateDiva Oh, and if you can afford it (or find a scholarship), @18andlegal, you might want to study abroad, especially in Europe. :) You'll get to enjoy new experiences, experience different cultures...oh, and plus you'll likely be a hit with the men there. Lol.
@lili2009 @trinigirl1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URAqnM1PP5E
@PaoloP @trinigirl1 " A few months ago one BM I know was complaining that his woman [non BW] tried going down on him once but he yelled at her because she didn't do a good job."
What in the world?
I'm not saying anything more about this foolishness.