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Remember, Big 12 Reimburses everyone on travel costs before splitting up the pot of money.
So, no matter how far FSU or Clemson go for conference games, the Big 12 pays for it with EVERYONE's Money.
2 years, 5 months ago on The Biggest Decision For Clemson Sports in 30 Years | May
@louciaccia @Rob And Louciaccia, he and the WVU blogger are friends to a certain degree.
John thought this would never happen, but he is a man of his word.
If in the end it happens, John will admit he was wrong.
2 years, 5 months ago on Internal FSU Battle Playing Out Externally; More Proof That The Tail's Been Wagging The Dog
@louciaccia @Rob Rob, I would use that same argument for Missouri and aTm
How are they going to win the SEC if they couldn't come close to winning the Big 12?
@jasonburns Slive doesn't care that much. The SEC will still get the best T.V. deal. They also are still the #1 football school
Slive really doesn't care.
The SEC won't give FSU an invite. It was seen by the Missouri addition that the SEC is looking for T.V. markets. They already have the Florida market so what does FSU add? Not much. Plus with Florida blocking them, there is really no chance of FSU joining. I'm not the only one saying this. Coley Harvey covers FSU sports and news and he even said there is almost no chance FSU can go to the SEC.
Also have to remember the collusion principle.
Barron said this at the Softball game last night
But Barron also said he was surprised to hear that people think he has now made up his mind on FSU's conference affiliation. "I have no idea what the next few weeks or even days will bring," Barron said. "I know I have alumni irritated because they think I made up my mind. What I am trying to say is this is not some simple thing. "It's amazing how many people will say to me, 'You don't understand. If you go to the Big 12, Clemson will go with you and so will Miami and you can play them.' "How do you know that? How can you say that? This is quite complicated. I have no idea how people will react to what I said, but I'm just trying to get the facts out there." Barron also said that he believes FSU has done the proper due diligence should any major conference be willing to discuss a possible move. Though he wouldn't pinpoint an exact time when the research was done, he said he felt comfortable last summer when rumors circulated about FSU possibly joining the SEC that his staff was prepped in case the league contacted him. "There is no way that the university wouldn't at least do its homework," Barron said. "That wouldn't make sense otherwise. But that happened last year and I didn't believe there was any truth to the rumors then. And I don't believe there is any truth to these rumors now. "It would have been strange for us not to think about it. To do a study and issue a report? No. But of course you think about it."
@MiloMoon Once again, Florida, Georgia, South Carolina all block FSU, Clemson, and Georgia Tech from joining.
I would assume he is meaning 17 mil for all three tiers compared with 20-22 mil for tier 1 and 2
Now UF makes 10 mil off their Tier 3, KU makes 8-10 mil of Tier 3, so you would think FSU could make 5-10 mil off tier 3
Meaning 3 mil just off the jump, and then 5 more at least off of Tier 3 rights
2 years, 5 months ago on New ACC Deal Should Hush Rumors Of Teams Leaving
@Denotion You do realize that when the Big 12 signs this T.V. deal they are giving up their rights for 13 years right?
Want to ask you, you do know that FSU doesn't have an ACC research partner right?
And yes, FSU would make about 8 mil more in the Big 12 than ACC.
You do understand if the Big 12 is to add 2 more teams, they would renegotiate right?
Some already have said the Big 12 has an escalation in their new deal saying an extra 2 mil per team that join (Granted ESPN/FOX can change that to higher or lower depending on the team)
2 years, 5 months ago on ACC TV Contract, Big 12 Expansion and FSU TV
Idk if the SEC would do that, they might, but if the ACC team were to jump to the Big 12, I could see an SEC/Big 12 challenge.
within the next 5 years I assume the "boycott" of scheduling Missouri and aTm will change which would set up a great rivalry for the fans.
I would think John would agree with me that he would love to anyone of these types of games. Texas/aTm, Kansas/Missouri, KSU/Arkansas, Bama/OSU, LSU/OU, FSU/UF, Clemson/SC, UK/Baylor
It would be a nice Basketball rivalry too
2 years, 5 months ago on Future SEC Expansion Will Still Require Approval Of 75% Of Presidents
Thanks for the post John, I was actually wondering how many votes it would take for a team to get admitted to the SEC.
@JRsec I highly doubt the Big 12 breaks apart and here are my reasons,
1. The Grant of rights for 13 years. Like you just said, it would take almost all the schools leaving to break the grant of rights, and with no one wanting to leave, I doubt anyone will break the rights.
2. The New Big 12 T.V. deal. The Big 12 just got 20 mil a year with JUST first and second tier rights. The 20+mil deal for the Pac 12 and Big 1G INCLUDES Tier 3 rights. So now Texas is the team with the most T.V. money in the county. Some of the Big 12 schools, I would even say Kansas (8-10 mil Tier 3 contract) are now making more than Big 1G schools.
3. They are tired of trying to move. They have no where to go. Texas didn't go west because of Texas politics according to Scott, not because Texas didn't want to. Texas politics got in the way of any move, so the only place for Texas to go is independent, and that doesn't provide as much money as the Big 12.
All in all, I think we can finally say the Big 12 is (yes I'm going to say it) STABLE.
In the next few months, we will see who they poach. More and More ACC guys are getting worried about the whole FSU and Clemson idea. IF such a thing happens, according to John, the SEC will stay out of it. If that is the case, look for the Big 12 to go to 14 teams by 2014 with first taking FSU and Clemson, and then taking VT and Louisville to finish it off.
From everything I heard, it will be FSU and Clemson first year, and then Louisville and another ACC team.
Look for the 2nd pair to be taken quickly because the OU president has already promised Louisville a spot. The problem for Louisville right now is they don''t have a partner to come to the Big 12 with
Question for John, How many votes does it take to admit a school into the SEC?
From everything I've heard and read, some say everyone has to agree to admit the school, others say 2/3rds, and some say half. Do you know which one it is John?
2 years, 5 months ago on Here We Go Again: As Summer Starts, Realignment Chatter Heats Up
@OldArmy Actually, aTm, Missouri, Colorado, and Probably Nebraska are all fine with it.
Nebraska and Colorado make just as much and probably more than what the Big 12 just got, so I don't see why they are kicking themselves. Now Missouri and aTm, the SEC will get a new deal within the next year or two and it should be worth more than the Big 12 deal. So they wouldn't be kicking themselves either.
Big 12 announced the grant of rights for 13 years today. Guess you can say it is stable.
@BAMANOLE26 I'm saying FSU isn't getting even more of the top recruits (even the ones from Bama) because they aren't in the SEC.
Florida is already battling everyone in the SEC for recruits. FSU joining the SEC is not going to happen. Once again, it would have already happened this last time in expansion. FSU is a desirable team, and SEC would have already gotten FSU if they were going too.
@Denotion Yes, that would be why they are already working on a 13 year grant of rights. They are locked in for 5 more years meaning they really won't decide to move for another 4 years. Right now, none of them want to leave, especially OU and Texas. OU has already finished their own network, and Texas, well we all know they will never get rid of that. OU isn't going to leave because their Network is worth 10 mil. So, you are actually wrong, the Big 12 is good for 4 years.
Once again, only time will tell. Just don't be "SHOCKED" if/when FSU and Clemson make the move
@RudeCock When did he say they were going to the SEC?
And the T.V. money is just about right. The New Big 12 deal without those teams will be 23 mil per team. Add the 3 mil for the conference championship and you are at 26 mil, and that isn't including the worth of CU and FSU, so the T.V. money will be around 30 mil
2 years, 5 months ago on Details Of Rumored Big 12 Expansion With Clemson & FSU Emerge | May
@John at MrSEC I'll sign my name now
@BAMANOLE26 First of all, this statement, If expansion starts up again, which I doubt, is completely wrong. I understand it is your opinion and I respect that, but the reason I say it is wrong is because the Big 12 has to get back to 12 for a conference championship game. They need that game to add more money to the pot.
They recreuit the same territory anyway. FSU has been a top 10 recruiting team over the past 25-30 years just like UF. If FSU were to join the SEC then it would mean absolutely nothing in terms of recruiting
There is a HUGE difference. You don't think UF gets some of their recruits by saying, "Hey, were in the SEC, you can go to FSU and play, but that won't get you a National Title." Every recruit in the nation wants to play for a National Championship, and I will give you the fact that FSU has had great recruiting classes, but if the playoff system goes as designed, the ACC will most likely never get someone in the final four spot. The ACC has had 1 team finish in the top 6 which was VT back a few years ago. That has been the only time. The ACC will have a hard time getting a team into the National Championship that way. Back to FSU recruiting. FSU has done a terrific job, but the reason UF finishes up in the top 10 so much is because they are in the SEC.
You say 3 teams don't make up a the rest of the 11, but you forget how much power those three teams have. If 3 teams are already locked saying no, you don't think other schools are going to listen? Someone with the power as UF has, has already convinced other teams to not even think about FSU.
If UF wasn't blocking FSU, FSU would have already been in the SEC and I think John would agree with that.
Lastly, I think you are confused.
As a fan, I would rather stay in the ACC and travel to Syracuse and play Miami and Clemson every year than join the B12 and travel to Ames or Lubbock and be in a conference with no championship game.
The only part you are confused on is the last part. If FSU and CU join, there will be a Championship game. All you need is 12 teams and with FSU and CU, that would equal 12. The Championship game would be in Jerry World (Cowboys Stadium)
Here are the facts that they are reporting, (some are true, others from what I've heard is false)
- Per these sources Clemson and Florida State will likely join the Big 12 in all sports effective in 2013. At this time the Big 12 will only expand by two teams, and possibly look to add additional teams in 2014 or beyond.
- The new Big 12 commisioner will be announced on Friday as Bob Bowlsby, who is leaving his post as AD at Stanford. We would not expect Bowlsby or anyone associated with this rumored expansion to acknowledge anything right away.
- The new Big 12 TV contract with the two new schools to be added we're told will approach 30 million per team.
- Approximately 3.5 million of the 30 million will be derived from the conference championship game.
-The first Big 12 Championship with the two new teams will be played at Cowboy Stadium aka Jerry World.
- The Big 12 is expected to contribute 10 million dollars per team to the ACC's buyout of 20 million. This is similar to what the Big 12 did with West Virginia. (This part is false to a certain degree. The Big 12 has stated, per my sources, that they will help the buyout cause, but they have not stated how much. They have also talked about getting FSU and CU to get the ACC to reduce those fees when they leave, sorta like what everyone does)
- Rumors of Clemson and Florida State using the Big 12 as leverage for an invitation to the SEC have been charaterized as pure speculation by sources, who indicated these programs are Big 12 bound. We were also told that a move could be very swift after the BCS meetings in June. (Another false point, the move will most likely be in July, and towards the end of the month. The Big 12 wants to make sure everything is in line with the T.V. contracts, which are almost done, still working out the FSU and CU part of it, and wants to make sure there are no last second changes)
Once again, nothing is finalized yet, but only time will tell.
@buddha22 Actually, they did sign the rights for 6 years (last year) I advice you go read up on that one. Secondly, the Big 12 does do equal revenue, Missouri was one of them that agreed to do the equal revenue before leaving. Third thing, you do realize, when you bring up LHN, that you are talking about Tier 3 rights, right? The only conferences that shares Tier 3 rights are the Pac 12 and the Big 1G. The SEC doesn't even share Tier 3 (I will admit they are trying to form their own network though) and Florida is on of the biggest opponents of sharing Tier 3 rights. Florida doesn't want to have to give up Fox Sun Sports Network Network. Fox Sun Sports Network brings in 10 million a year, now unless the SEC network can top that, I don't see florida willingly giving up their network. They aren't the only one in the SEC with that either. Several other schools have their own network.
Now, Yes, the SEC was more stable, and no one is arguing that. Now when you say the ACC is stable, I ask you how are they stable? What keeps the ACC together from running? If you say because no one has left yet, I say that is not a good way of talking about stability. The Big 12 has signed their rights for 6 years (talks about a new deal for 13 are underway and almost finished) and the ACC has done what? Let me put it this way so you understand how unstable the ACC is. When the ACC raised the exit fee, they wanted to raise it to 34 Mil. FSU was the biggest opponent of this and wanted to lower it. FSU got their wish. Now, if you were committed to a conference, and it was stable, would you not want the Exit Fee to be 34 million?
I still want to know where "you heard" they didn't sign the 6 year grant of rights because everyone knows that was done last year.
@BAMANOLE26 Sorry to say this, (once again, only from what I've heard) the FSU to the SEC is dead. There is no way with South Carolina, Georgia, and Florida all forming a pact to make sure FSU can't join (Georgia doesn't want GT to join, and SC doesn't want Clemson to join). Florida is scared that if FSU joins the ACC, FSU will steal all of Florida's recruits and with them both making the same amount of money, there is nothing to stop the recruits from doing just that. FSU would have gotten in if it wasn't for this last summer. FSU would have been grabbed after aTm or even before aTm was grabbed. FSU doesn't have a shot to join the SEC because of Florida.
Now I understand the traveling is a lot farther than what you would hope, but I do ask you this, Would you rather travel have to travel to WVU and your athletic department making more money to where they aren't budget cutting and can improve facilities, or would you rather continue traveling to Maryland with your athletic department cutting money?
@John at MrSEC Yes, I will be perfectly happy coming back on this Site and saying I was wrong.
I will come back to this site first, and say, MrSec was 100% right and I was 100% wrong. I will be glad to do that on your most recent page as well.
@Rlh04d @big12source I know what blog I'm on. Just like if the Pac12 were to expand, I wouldn't leave out the fact they expanded as a Big 12 guy. I would hint at that in the end. It was only a suggestion because I know I'm not the only one thinking, why didn't he touch on football at all.
2 years, 5 months ago on Clemson and Florida State to the Big 12 - a hoops perspective | May
Dodds confirmed tonight on the Longhorn extra that the Presidents have agreed to extend the Grant of Rights 13 more years
Orangebloods also reports that the Big 12 will extend its current six-year shared media rights deal to 13 years when ESPN’s new contract with the league is announced this summer. If that comes to pass it will do wonders for the stability of the Big 12.
Everyone realizes that Conference realignment doesn't have much (has a little bit, but not much) influence by academics, but it is all about football. FSU has to cut 2.5 million in athletic travels because the ACC T.V. deal is terrible, and if you do your research, the NEW Big 12 is equal with the NEW SEC in academics wide, and both are right there with the Big 1G.
FSU needs money and the ACC doesn't offer it. If they were to stay because of Academics, then they will be forced to continue to cut athletic spending and allow Florida to continue building up their facilities and start watching recruits go to Florida over FSU.
You don't think Florida says to recruits, yeah you could go to FSU and be in the ACC (who has only finished in the top 6 in the BCS standing ONCE), or you could join the SEC.
They try using that argument about FSU in the Big 12 and it doesn't work as well.
All I can say is, wait 2 months, see if these "Rumors" are true (and the rumors are now stating that FSU and Clemson are a DONE DEAL and will be announced as soon as the BCS finializes the playoff deal, that is expected to come in this next meeting which is in a month) and if they are, I really hope MrSEC comes out and states he was COMPLETELY WRONG.
@MiloMoon@John at MrSEC Agreed. Bowlsby said today one of the first things on his list is to sign over the rights for long term as well. The ACC is in serious trouble because 20 mil can be made up in 3 years and the conference they are joining will help pay that. The ACC is turning into the Big East and everyone who has followed this, knows that.
Also, anyone who thinks Texas and OU are just waiting to jump is missing the facts. Texas is looking to make the most money, why do you think they wanted to go to the Pac 12 WITH their LHN. Pac 12 makes the most (as of right now) out of anyone, and with LHN giving Texas 15 mil a year, it just makes life good for the horns. Texas in the Pac 12 would be making 28 mil a year. Right now in the Big 12 before the new T.V. deal, they make 29 mil a year. With the new T.V. deal (23 mil per team) Texas will make 38 MIL PER YEAR. And if the Big 12 expands to 12, the conference game will be worth 7 mil per team that makes it. That is 45 MIL PER YEAR if they make the Big 12 title game. NO ONE can come close to offering that.
@Denotion 1 that is a pretty stupid assumption. Let me give you reasons WHY THE ACC team would jump to the Big 12 in a heartbeat.
1. The ACC makes 2 million less than the Big 12 and that is AFTER their new T.V. deal with the new teams. The ACC gained 1 mil extra per team on that new deal. FSU just came up 2.5 million dollars short on their athletic budget and they are needing money to compete with Florida. The money is a HUGE difference. The Big 12 is about to get a new deal that is worth the same as the Fox deal, that means 23 mil per school. The ACC makes 15 mil per school with their new deal. If the Big 12 were to get 2 more schools, they will be having a conference championship game that is worth 7 million per school that makes it. That is 30 mil per year without including Tier 3 rights. There is a big difference between the ACC and Big 12 in terms of money and if you don't believe that you are stupid enough to believe the Big 12 and ACC are the exact same in football (which is idiotic).
2. The ACC is about as unstable as the Big 12 was. The Big 12 has a 6 year grant of rights? How does that make them unstable? No one will leave their T.V. money behind. The ACC on the other hand is in trouble. You think Texas is bad running the Big 12, UNC and Duke are making the ACC look like the Big East. Only adding Basketball teams is what killed the Big East and will likely kill the ACC. Did they not learn from the Big East?
3. KU, ISU, KSU, yeah, they would like a Big 1G invite, LAST YEAR. Now they are stuck for 6 years and with the new commish, they are about to get it extended another 10 years. That is 16 years of T.V. rights given up. no one can leave.
4. Orangebloods isn't the one reporting this. One of the sites is a clemson site, the other is a WVU site. The last guy who believes it will happen, has been right on all conference expansion. He said NU and CU wanted out when they did. He nailed the aTm and Missouri move when everyone thought Missouri would got to the Big 1G he said Missouri was going to the SEC. He also nailed the Pitt and CUSE move to the ACC. Lastly, he said that WVU was going to get to the Big 12 over Louisville when everyone questioned it.
@tootall You would be wrong on that assumption too.
FSU will NOT get into the SEC and they have tried so many times. They wanted out and can't get in because Florida is scared they might steal the recruits. Florida, Georgia, and South Carolina have a pact that won't allow Georgia Tech, Clemson, or FSU into the SEC. They will never get in because Florida won't let them. Now VT is a very likely choice. If/When Clemson and FSU join the Big 12, everyone expects the SEC to expand with VT and NCST (add new SEC footprint)
@John at MrSEC This is the piece I disagree with.
Here’s the question then: Would Delany and Bowlsby be willing to blow up the entire current landscape in an effort to possibly land Notre Dame? Because if Notre Dame moves, there’s a good chance other schools will move
First of all, any conference ND joins would not have teams leaving because of that. Last time I checked, USC and UCLA weren't going to leave if Texas were to join? Like you said, everyone wants ND, that is why no one would leave the conference. Now if you are talking about other schools moving to the same conference, then yes you are right.
Another thing I disagree with,
I think the Big 12 is a troubled league and if you don't agree with that then you're not paying attention to recent facts:
1. Four schools -- Nebraska, Colorado, Texas A&M and Missouri -- have left in the last two years.
2. Four others -- Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma and Oklahoma State -- have negotiated with other leagues regarding their own potential exits (before deciding to stay put).
Last time I checked, a league that has already signed over their rights for 6 years, and are about to sign over the rights again, is not a troubled league but try again. The four schools, Nebraska, Colorado, aTm, and Missouri, well, let's start with Nebraska.
Nebraska hated Beebe and also was upset at the fact Texas made more money. Nebraska wanted a bigger piece of the pie and guess what BEEBE GAVE IT TO THEM. He raised Nebraska's cut, but lowered Kansas, ISU, and KSU to help Nebraska out. Nebraska still left because they knew they could make more money in the Big 1G and more research money in the Big 1G. Colorado left because the Big 12 was not a fit for them, and honestly, the Pac 12 isn't either. They left for, you guess it, more money. aTm left because, well it is the SEC. Why wouldn't you want to join that league? Missouri left, well, because Missouri still thought the Big 1G wanted them and obviously they didn't. They knew this was the second time they tried something like this and that the Big 12 would be pissed at them if they came back.
The Big 12 is one of the most stable conferences. No one else has signed a rights like that. The SEC is only secure because it has proven to be the one of the best football leagues. Now, what happens when the SEC starts sucking again? Before the BCS era the SEC wasn't even a tough conference. Then the SEC will be in trouble, but no one expects that for another 20 years.
So yes, there are several things you have said that I disagree with. Now, what else are we supposed to expect from an SEC writer? Hell, even Big 12 writers hate the SEC. You're going to brag on the SEC, people should expect it.
I do have one question. If Clemson and FSU do go to the Big 12 in the next 2 months, are you going to come out and say, you fucked this one up, or are you going to laugh at them?
@TravisElder Yes, I do realize whether it was a good move for hoops article. But to be honest, does it matter what Hoops does? The realignment is a football first thing is all I'm saying. Also, you can leave the rumors all you want, but from everyone I've heard, the move is likely.
My whole point was, basketball doesn't really matter anyways. ACC is becoming the new Big East and we all saw how that turned out. Obviously the ACC hasn't learned that Basketball revenue, won't get you anywhere.
I guess they will soon learn.
You do realize that the move has nothing to do with basketball right? The money comes from football. If conference realignment was about basketball, everyone would want Louisville and Kansas. This is about basketball. You should do an article on how much FSU and Clemson make in football compared to the rest of the ACC. That will explain why FSU and Clemson want to go to the Big 12.
When the Big 12 renegotiates its T.V. deal (First Tier Rights) with ESPN, it will be more than 1.15 Billion dollars. Most sources say that it will be closer to 2 Billion dollars but that number will change depending on who comes in. That would make each school get (if the numbers are 18 mil now) 21-27 mil per year
2 years, 8 months ago on Embracing Big 12 Membership: The Return of Real Football | February
I would love this, but I do wonder what are your sources?
2 years, 8 months ago on Terry Don Phillips Smashes Big 12 Rumors | February
I do wonder what your sources are, I would love this to happen but no one else is reporting this. I understand Why the Ad of clemson said no, so did Missouri and A&m before they left. I still wonder what Sources you have?
2 years, 8 months ago on Clemson and FSU are on the clock | February
@jack sprat No, Missouri gives out meth at parties, heck, they probably give out meth at Home games. They are the state with the most meth labs
2 years, 8 months ago on Big 12 Expansion Tracker | February
Umm, I would say the Highest is Louisville because with the new rumors, Louisville is Lobbying hard and the Big 12 is ready to accept them as soon as WVU thing gets settled and the Big 12 decides what they want to do. Stay with 11 or expand more.