Jim Les for 3
Bio not provided
@DavidEchard I like Lowry but it will take $10M per year to get him to Sacramento, and I expect IT to resign for around $8M. Lowry is better but he's also been known as a poor locker room guy for most of his career. Do we need that guy replacing Cousins' closest friend on the team?
As for McCallum, I like the guy, but:
1) he's been playing like 43mpg, so knock his counting stats down 20% or so for starter-equivalent minutes
2) it's the end of the season and some teams are packing it in
3) it's a 10 game sample
It's way too freakin' early to be considering him as a starting PG for a team looking to get to the postseason.
3 months, 1 week ago on Sunday Musings: Can the Sacramento Kings afford to let Isaiah Thomas go?
Demarcus is just hard to relate to as a fan. He's improved so much on the court, I love watching the guy play this season (mostly). Like many young men what he lacks is experience and perspective.
Imagine being 23 years old, having some embarrassing moments of yours forever preserved in time on video and in articles. Imagine being targeted by agents, hangers-on, and opportunists since you were a young teenager. Imagine being so clearly talented yet being advised by players who are clearly less talented. Imagine having a 13K square foot house! Imagine being constantly reminded of your bouts of immaturity by writers and fans.
Demarcus doesn't play the public figure game well. He may improve in this area as he gets older. Look at guys like Webber, Barkley, etc. Very intelligent men who, at first, chafed at the expectations of an NBA star off the court. I think Cousins will develop his off the court "celebrity" game eventually, but it's hard to blame a guy for being wary of some of the media.
3 months, 2 weeks ago on Sunday Musings: Understanding DeMarcus Cousins
Great win! The 3rd quarter was so ugly. So much heroball, some really ugly turnovers by Gay. Let's see how the offense looks with a full training camp. Kings played some good team D tonight as well.
4 months ago on CK Press Box Report: Sacramento Kings 117, Washington Wizards 111
@Em Gee @KingsAllDay C'mon now. I can pull up a Quincy Douby Youtube highlight reel. He's playing in China.
The next Steve Nash with better shooting skills? Wow.
4 months, 1 week ago on Game 66 Preview: Sacramento Kings at Chicago Bulls
@Em Gee I have to give you credit for your faith in the guy. I bet you could get some generous odds in Vegas on your prediction.
@GrantChristensen Perhaps. If I'm Jimmer I'm wondering if the 3 minutes a game I'm getting in Chicago is going to cost me a multiyear contract this offseason. Other organizations are going to want to see him play legit game minutes.
As for the game, we'll be getting walloped IMO. Chicago is so well coached and their defense can just grind us down.
I hope Ben can be Gerald Green before his rookie deal is up! I'm looking forward to seeing how Ben deals with summer. Does he work hard to come in as the starting SG, or slack off? Does he work on the right things with the coaching staff, or does he self-direct? I want to see better ballhandling and better defensive awareness from Ben, or I'd like to see us bring in a Dorell Wright or Tony Allen-type; a 2-3 year contract for a veteran who can start in year one and gradually transition to the bench. Unfortunately we will have to pick up that piece before knowing how Ben's summer turns out.
4 months, 1 week ago on Is Ben McLemore the next Gerald Green?
@KMFA @Jim Les for 3 Of course we can criticize this team! They're 22-42! You're just 100% negative about anyone not named Jimmer Fredette, who doesn't even play here anymore!
The Kings are clearly on a different path then they've been on for the last 5-6 seasons, and fans like me are happy about some small rays of hope coming out of the organization. Let us celebrate those rays of hope while still holding management and the players accountable.
You can keep saying that people are trying to bully you, but what I see is that you tried to get around getting banned. Calling you out for that isn't bullying.
There's that tic again TABDOG: the word capitalization. That's how we know it's you. Any mod could just check your IP and confirm it.
They freakin' love Jimmer over at Blog A Bull! They would love to have you!
4 months, 1 week ago on Ray McCallum embraces role as change-of-pace defender for Sacramento Kings
McCallum is playing great right now. He's earning more minutes for next season and holding the Kings off from signing a veteran backup PG. All on a cheap contract. What's not to love?
@KMFA @Jim Les for 3 I am not trying to bully you or anyone else. Your assertion is false and extremely disingenuous coming from the former TABDOG, who continually harassed other message board users. If you're not TABDOG, then the coincidences are stunning.
I've simply suggested that since you seem not to enjoy the Kings team and only comment to criticize current players and praise former players, maybe you'd enjoy posting elsewhere. I know that we'd all enjoy you posting elsewhere. It's not my site so it's not my call.
You got banned before for only posting to pick fights. Here you go again.
@KMFA @KingsAllDay Let us note that a prior tic of TABDOG was to capitalize the word "facts" just like the above post did. Moderator, please ban this second-generation TABDOG username.
Concern troll KMFA's concern is noted.
@KMFA Jimmer plays for the Bulls. Please go discuss him there.
Oh look another Kings concern troll. Your concern is noted. Moving along.
4 months, 1 week ago on Game 65 Preview: Sacramento Kings at Philadelphia 76ers
Turnovers are a problem, as they are for any new group of players. It's probably important to note that while we averaged only 13 turnovers per game at the start of the season...we were terrible to start the season (4-10 or 4-11 depending on your cutoff). We have only one guy from the opening night starting 5 still starting.
I'm more concerned about the assist to turnover ratio or total assists than the turnover count. We have good offensive rebounders that can generate second chances for us, mitigating the loss of possessions. These guys need to stop with the home run outlet pass. That would save us 1-3 TOs per game.
4 months, 2 weeks ago on Turnovers handicapping Sacramento Kings offense
McCallum has had some solid games. If you can get a rotation player out of a second rounder, you're doing it right. I'm looking forward to seeing what Ray can bring to finish out the season.
4 months, 2 weeks ago on Ray McCallum takes advantage of late season opportunity
Nice coverage in the video, guys. Is Demarcus always that....reserved in postgame comments?
4 months, 2 weeks ago on CK Press Box Report: Sacramento Kings 96, New Orleans Pelicans 89
Shut up Phil. Stop hitting the Zing vodka. We all remember how the arena plans went down during the Maloof regime.
4 months, 3 weeks ago on Phil Jackson shares new perspective on Sacramento Kings' near move to Seattle
Nice challenge. Let's see Demarcus be a leader and lead this team to a good finish. He's grown up some this season. Time to show that you are a franchise guy in all respects, not just on offense.
4 months, 3 weeks ago on Sunday Musings: A challenge to DeMarcus Cousins
@Charger11 @nchr McLemore looks absolutely terrible. He's also a rookie. Kevin Martin looked pretty bad as a rookie too. If McLemore doesn't pick it up soon he's going to be coming off the bench behind a veteran next season.
I basically agree that at some point, they should have run Jimmer out there for extended minutes. Prior management was prior management. Those guys were a disaster on every level. This year, I think that the die was cast in preseason when they didn't pick up his option. Having no incentive to play him over players who were under contract for the future (Thornton, Outlaw) or rookies (McLemore, McCallum), this year turned out really poorly for Jimmer. At PG, I think Malone believes that Jimmer is incapable of being an NBA-caliber ballhandler and passer.
It sucks. It basically sucked for everyone involved. We'll agree to disagree on his level of potential. Ah the Grant Napear show. I'm just outside the coverage area but i do miss his rants :)
4 months, 3 weeks ago on A final conversation with Jimmer Fredette
@Charger11 @Jim Les for 3 @KennethBrody I agree that the assist metric is flawed. However it is the metric that is in use. You are welcome to construct an analysis that proves your point about Isaiah "overdribbling". You could probably make some money from it even. I don't think your assessment is correct.
You don't think IT earned his playing time? How do you think playing time works? Why would the team give the unknown 60th pick more opportunity than the nationally-known 10th pick? I still haven't seen a good answer to this question.
"It would be intelligent for certain “people who work in professional basketball” to give more player development time to the player who has the higher potential. "
Sure. So given that they didn't do that, who do you think management thinks has more potential? Given that one guy just got bought out and the other one had the guy starting in front of him shipped out and is going to get seriously paid this summer, who do you think management thinks has more potential? Who do you think the league thinks has more potential?
@Charger11 @Jim Les for 3 @KennethBrody It doesn't matter that I don't know who you are. You haven't made any arguments that persuade me, or refuted my arguments, so I'm going to defer to the people who do this for a living in my judgments of players. Neither of us care if you don't convince me or I don't convince you. I think I'm on more solid ground; you think otherwise.
I'm just pointing out that you're not making logical arguments in favor of your position.
It's pretty amazing that you don't need to see practices to evaluate players. That would be unusual by the standards of pro basketball.
You're basically arguing against using evidence or expertise to evaluate things. Is that your intention?
Why do you need to resort to ad hominem?
@Charger11 @Jim Les for 3 @KennethBrody Thanks for replying. Actually you are not correctly stating my argument and thus not correctly responding to it. My argument is that on average, I expect Kings management to be better evaluators than Kenneth Brody. I think this is especially true given that Kenneth Brody is not employed as a professional evaluator and deployer of basketball talent. Our management works in a highly competitive talent market. This is not a perfectly efficient market, but certainly has high financial stakes. Kenneth Brody being wrong about Jimmer has no financial ramifications for a $550M business. Kings management being wrong about Jimmer does have those ramifications. Kenneth Brody's job is to be a fan of a player and a team. Kings management's job is to make money and win.
Some fans who do understand basketball very well write blogs and have even become journalists and organization members (see John Hollinger).
As to your McLemore arguments, McLemore could be a bust. He does have bad hands. But I'm willing to bet much more on the Kings organization's ability to make those assessments than your ability. Remember how much more they know about a player than you do. They see practices: we don't. They know the player's personality: we don't.
It's important not to overrate your own ability to succeed in a competitive market with players that have more resources than you do.
@Charger11 @Jim Les for 3 @KennethBrody Thanks for replying.
Distilling your points: "Maybe he's sensitive--so what?" So in a system like pro basketball, where the best 10 players make $18M a year in salary, the best 450 players get an NBA paycheck, and the next best 1000 players have to play in the D-League or overseas, being sensitive isn't an asset. That's basically why Jimmer has never complained to the media; he knows it's about his game only.
The link to his actual game is that, in my view, Jimmer partisans try to shift blame for Jimmer's performance to date onto other sources like the organization, the coaches, etc. My point is that other players suffered from the same issues. Remember, the 60th pick in the draft rarely even suits up for an NBA team. Ours beat out our lottery pick three seasons in a row.
Isaiah was not "given" but rather earned his playing time. Remember, we're talking about the 60th pick in the draft. He's actually an above average shooter by TS% and EFG. He's also not a ball stopper, but rather tied for 11th in the NBA in assists per game (10th among point guards).
Jimmer's inability to overcome his supposed "abuse" is really his own problem. His inability to overcome this to date has cost him probably tens of millions of dollars in future income. The league is about performance. Coaches and GMs rarely get the opportunity for three-year plans. It's a "what have you done for me lately" league.
I hope that Thibs gets performance out of him. I like the Bulls and I think Thibs is a good coach, and it's probably a good landing spot for him based on their experiences with Korver, Belinelli, Nate Robinson, etc.
To your statement: "It is just possible that, because of player abuse by coaches Smart and Malone, we haven’t seen the real Jimmer yet."
Yes, it is possible. I just think it's unlikely. I think it's unlikely based on his performance to date. I think he's basically Eddie House, Damon Jones, etc.
@KennethBrody I appreciate your continued engagement on this issue and your distancing from the uglier comments left here by Jimmer fans.
In my view comparisons to Steve Nash or Stephen Curry are just.....out there.
I just don't understand why you would call people who work in professional basketball "simple-minded" in contrast to your own abilities to project player performance. Doesn't it make you uncomfortable to presume that you (a Jimmer partisan) are better able to evaluate and deploy talent than people who get paid to 1) win games 2) develop players?
Criticism and suggestion are the bases of sports fandom, but in your comments I basically see irrational exuberance projected from desire.
The problems with the Kings are multifaceted and are in something like the following order:
1) Poor level of investment from the prior owners
2) Downstream from low investment, poor management
3) Downstream from poor management, botched draft picks and poor player development
4) Downstream from botched picks and poor player development, a low asset base.
Jimmer (and every other Kings player) suffered from all these issues. Some players overcame them to get minutes. Some didn't. The 60th pick in Jimmer's draft overcame them and outplayed him every season. He's going to get a $30-$40M contract in a couple of months. Jimmer right now is hoping for a 2 year, $4M contract in a couple of months.
Still 0 for the season without Cousins.
4 months, 3 weeks ago on Road Reaction Postgame Show: Los Angeles Lakers 126, Sacramento Kings 122
@Jhuggs34 I'm not sure I want our good scorers getting our underwhelming rookie more involved in the offense. McLemore looks very green out there right now. If we were actually playing to win games he'd be getting about 10mpg.
I don't want to see Isaiah overshooting in this one. Let's see some ball movement into the frontcourt. Williams needs to be making quick cuts and getting out in transition. McLemore should continue to work on getting to the line and establishing the drive before moving out to the corner three. Go Kings!
4 months, 3 weeks ago on Game 58 Preview: Sacramento Kings at Los Angeles Lakers
@GrantChristensen Obviously a shot at Cousins, and not an unfair one. In last week's podcast James gave Chuck Hayes a little business for being out of shape and spoke to the general idea of the organization not being well-disciplined during the last few Maloof years. I would love a guy like Taj Gibson on this team.
4 months, 3 weeks ago on Why Jimmer Fredette no longer made sense for the Sacramento Kings
@CowbellKingdom @TABDOG Thank goodness.
@Em Gee @Jim Les for 3 We heard you guys the 10th time. How many times do you have to repeat the same thing? No one from the Kings organization cares now. It's over, the guy is on the wire. Tomorrow he'll be signed by Chicago. Please take your friends over to www.blogabull.com.
Alright guys, it's time for us to keep trolling this Kings message board even though our favorite guy was bought out. There are some Kings fans on there that haven't yet internalized our message. I know we're all scared to go post at the biggest Kings site because there are meanies there. Luckily this is a safe space for us to bring out our statistically insignificant small sample size arguments and "Keith Smart is a racist!" arguments. I figure if we keep saying them maybe they'll come true. Anyway, see you guys in the next thread ok?
So, is this the last thread where you guys all cry on each others' shoulders and badmouth the Kings, or is it when Jimmer signs with another team? Just planning here......
4 months, 3 weeks ago on Sacramento Kings free Jimmer Fredette
@TABDOG That's pretty rich coming from the ringleader of the "I hate the Kings cause they don't play Jimmer!" crew. Your lack of self-awareness is commendable. Congrats on ruining a discussion board for my favorite team with your whining and preening. You should be proud.
5 months ago on Jimmer Fredette talks NBA trade deadline and future with Sacramento Kings
@TABDOG "Finally, those Kings fans are gone so that me and the boys can talk all day about how bad the Kings organization is and how cool Jimmer is! Thank goodness we're at a Kings blog!"
Frontline coverage of people Jimmer Fredette would be ashamed of
Not that anyone cares but I'll be on Sactown Royalty until this Jimmermania blows over. No disrespect to James and Jon, who run a great site and a stellar podcast.
The ratio of Kings fans to strictly Jimmer Fredette fans is a little more reasonable over there. See you in 2 months.
@TABDOG @Jim Les for 3 See, you continue to mistake your opinions and predictions for facts. They are different things. Then you create strawmen and knock them down. Classic troll behavior. Stop trolling the board of a team you want to fail.
5 months, 1 week ago on Road Reaction Postgame Show: Sacramento Kings 106, New York Knicks 101
@TABDOG @Jim Les for 3 I suppose I'll go down this rabbit hole once more with you.
It's not at all correct to sat I made an evaluation of him without the facts.
What is correct is to say that you and I looked at the facts (his performance to date) and made different extrapolations of what the past tells us about the future. The only "facts" that exist are Jimmer's NBA stats and his performance in practice. We are only privy to one set of those. Everything else (your prediction of how Jimmer will perform with 20-25 MPG) is not a "fact" but rather a "hope" or "prediction". I am making the prediction, based on the facts of his past performance, that his ceiling is 20mpg or so. You are making a different prediction based on the same facts. One of us will be more or less wrong, eventually. Everything else is conjecture, hope, predictions. People who disagree with your conjecture, hope, and predictions are not "haters".
I feel like this is an elementary point.
In the NBA, coaches and management need to use small sample sizes of performance to predict future performance. To repeat myself for the 40th time, my prediction is not some wild theory. It seems to be the opinion of the coaching staff and the front office. We all may be wrong. You may be correct. But there are no "facts" that you see that others don't.
Anyway, he played great last night. I know you feel vindicated. Congrats for that. I'm not going to crap on the guy after a career night.
@TABDOG @Jim Les for 3 Agree. Thornton has Steve Blass disease.
For a laugh, visit the Angry Knicks Fan video in reaction to the game last night
@TABDOG @SSSDMC15 What would you disagree with exactly?
Point 1: I don't think Jimmer has much value on this Kings squad, or to other teams. The proof is that they didn't pick up his option and don't play him. We'll see what his market value is either in the next 2 weeks or during the offseason. What do you think he'll fetch in trade? Luol Deng couldn't even secure a guaranteed first rounder. What do you think he'll get in FA? Unless he starts getting 30mpg and blows up, do you think he'll get more than $2M per year on a 1-2 year deal?
Point 2: He's not a relevant player on the Kings. The team has no incentive to play him over Thornton and McLemore, and they don't. Even if they think he will win them more games, that's clearly not the goal of the team this season, as pronounced by the owner! That's my definition of relevant on the Kings. What's your definition exactly?
Keep trolling though, you're doing a great job of representing Jimmer Fredette.
@SSSDMC15 @Jim Les for 3 We're cool SSSDMC15. I'm not offended or angsty really. I don't think calling people haters is conducive to good message board discussions. I guess we disagree on that. No biggie. Perhaps I am mislabeling myself as one of the Jimmer "haters" you mention. That's because other Jimmer fans (not you) have called me a hater for disagreeing with them. Since we haven't had that exchange before, I shouldn't have done that.
Jimmer's ability is a thing that it's possible to disagree on, as with any player. I think Landry is useless, on this team for example. I think the front office disagrees with me! I personally think Jimmer has some ability and is an NBA caliber player. Others may disagree. He played a great game last night for sure and was clearly the reason the Kings were able to pull it out.
What's probably weird for Jimmer fans (and Kings fans) right now is the fact that the Kings have no real incentive to play Jimmer over McLemore. Since the ownership group doesn't care about this season's wins, it doesn't even matter if Jimmer outplays both Thornton and McLemore, since Thornton is under contract for next season and McLemore is the lottery pick. I understand that can be a tough place to be if you're a fan of Jimmer.
Jimmer will clearly not return to the Kings next season. He shouldn't for his own sake.
@hsvjones Well, basically because Jimmer won't be coming back to the Kings and McLemore is their lottery pick. The ownership said that they don't care about wins and losses this year, so they're throwing him out there to learn.
@SSSDMC15 @Jim Les for 3 That has nothing to do with Jimmer and everything to do with your behavior. Own it. Do you call everyone who disagrees with you a "hater" in public?
@SSSDMC15 Calling people who disagree on a player "haters" isn't constructive. It's a team message board, people disagree and talk about it. That's the nature of sports fandom.
Jimmer played great tonight, hats off to him for hitting a number of big shots.
Are we arguing about Jimmer Fredette again? How tiresome.
This was a bad loss. We suck when Rudy Gay doesn't play. It's like the beginning of the season, except we don't have the dudes we sent to Toronto. Sullinger and Bayless worked us.
5 months, 2 weeks ago on Road Reaction Postgame Show: Boston Celtics 99, Sacramento Kings 88
@benbackstreet @Jim Les for 3 @layituplikeaman ? To answer your question, yes, I watched the game.
5 months, 2 weeks ago on CK Press Box Report: Sacramento Kings 109, Toronto Raptors 101
Fun game. Pretty ridiculous that we let Toronto back into the game. That call on Lowry was as bad as the Paul George 4-point play, but we'll take it. This gives us good momentum to go on our Atlantic road trip. Boston, Washington, Cleveland, New York. I think we can go 2-2 and possibly 3-1 (Washington is actually competent). We played good defense for the most part (until the 4th).
@layituplikeaman Jimmer cannot fail he can only be failed by others.
Remember kids, don't feed the TABDOG troll and it might go away.
5 months, 2 weeks ago on CK Press Box Report: Sacramento Kings 99, Chicago Bulls 70
@Cowbb @KennethBrody He seems like a great teammate, everyone on the team seems to like him, Cousins in particular.
@KennethBrody The Sacramento Kings won by 29 points. The team Jimmer plays for won by 29 points. It's not about the amount of PT Jimmer got, it's about getting a 29 point win. Is it really necessary to criticize the coach after such a performance? Do you think Jimmer is thinking, "man, we played great, but I really should have gotten more run last night"?
Fantastic game! The Bulls really miss Deng's ability to create shots. Cousins got a little distracted by the refs but regained his composure and led the team when it was needed. It was so apparent that Gay and Thomas are able to be more efficient when Cousins is on the floor. These guys aren't #1 options and their spacing really improves when defenses pay so much attention to Demarcus. Cousins also played some good defense down low.
Great game by Jimmer as well. He made good decisions and ran the offense well. He has good pick and roll chemistry with Cousins; the PG can't sag off Jimmer and Cousins is good at getting the ball at the free throw line and making decisions on the roll. I was pleased that McCallum got some run early; we're going to need to decide if he can play backup PG next year and getting him some experience this season will help.
Thornton is done. I'm not sure how a guy with his history falls this far this fast but he has. He isn't earning any minutes on a full-strength Kings squad. He doesn't do anything for the team if he's not scoring. Time to move on from him. Let's see McLemore and Jimmer split his minutes from now on, with McCallum getting 10mpg at the 1 and Jimmer playing the 1 and 2.
@KennethBrody @Jim Les for 3 @layituplikeaman LeBron is LeBron. IT is not LeBron. The Heat have 4 future Hall of Famers. You cannot "foster team offense" when the guy using up the most possessions (on a lottery squad) is hurt. Again, who do you want taking IT's shots? Please point out the other players on the team that should have gotten some of those shots. Would you like JT to take more 18 footers? Would you like Thornton to take more threes? Would you like Aaron Gray to post up?
The team is fine offensively when Cousins plays. Defense is the issue, and right now, injuries are. Kings are 9-12 with those three starting; 6-19 without.
5 months, 2 weeks ago on Road Reaction Postgame Show: San Antonio Spurs 95, Sacramento Kings 93
Tough loss. We really need Cousins back. On the bright side, we're acquiring lots of ping-pong balls.
@Cowbb @layituplikeaman Almost all players lose efficiency when they increase usage. Cousins usage leads the NBA at 33.4% of total possessions. Obviously redistributing those possessions will hurt the efficiency of all the other players, and hurt the other high-volume shooters most. See Tom Ziller on Rudy Gay's usage http://www.sbnation.com/2014/1/14/5303590/rudy-gay-sacramento-kings-trade-shooting-hook
@ppellico @layituplikeaman How is he "not an NBA player" if he's actually playing in the NBA, well enough to go from 60th pick to starting PG in three seasons? What do you know that Malone doesn't?
@KennethBrody @layituplikeaman That's a nice theory, but who do you want taking these shots? Thompson? Williams? Thornton? Seriously, how many of IT's shots from last night should have been redistributed to other shooters? Do the Kings win if Thornton shoots more?
Sacrificing yourself for the team is only helpful if the team is competent to help. Who outside of Gay and Cousins would take 10+ shots per game on any other NBA team?
@TABDOG If he's a bottom rung PG why is he going to get a $7MM/year + contract this offseason?
I can't disagree with giving Thornton the Kenny Thomas treatment. He's playing terribly. Take him out behind the barn and put him down. That'll give Jimmer a few more minutes in a 3-guard rotation. Then we'll be able to trade him! Everyone wins.
5 months, 3 weeks ago on Road Reaction Postgame Show: Dallas Mavericks 107, Sacramento Kings 103
Memphis is tough and on a roll now that Gasol is back. I think one thing that is clear is that a guy like Cousins helps Thomas be a better player on offense (prevents him from taking too many tough shots) and defense (protects the rim to a degree). The whole is greater than the sum of its parts. In the offseason we need to be looking for defensive players at PF and perhaps SG. McLemore is a young rookie but I sure would like to see him hitting some shots and progressing on defense. This is a rebuilding year and I expect Thomas, McLemore, and Cousins to be better with another offseason and training camp under their belt. Thomas in particular has shown significant growth every offseason, so let's hope he works on D and distributing this summer.
5 months, 3 weeks ago on CK Press Box Report: Memphis Grizzlies 99, Sacramento Kings 89
5 months, 3 weeks ago on Road Reaction Postgame Show: Utah Jazz 106, Sacramento Kings 99
@TABDOG @Jim Les for 3 http://winstonscrooge.wordpress.com/2013/08/13/four-reasons-to-troll-message-boards/
@TABDOG @Jim Les for 3 See now you're just degenerating into full troll using childish jokes. Grow up.
IT is one of the three best players on the team. Even if you don't think so, the league does. Thornton is one of the 7-8 best players on the team. Even if you don't think so, the league does. Jimmer is as valuable to other teams as Travis Outlaw (that would be little to zero). Even if you don't think so, the league does. See how this works?
Pooping all over threads here can't be satisfying. You're clearly not a Kings fan. Go away.
@TABDOG @Jim Les for 3 Thornton's big game against Indiana? IT's "poor" game where he played better than Jimmer ever has in a single NBA game? Isaiah's last few games where he's gassed from trying to carry the team without a competent backup PG because Jimmer can't handle the ball?
@TABDOG @Jim Les for 3 Isn't there some sort of Jimmer fanboy circle-jerk website where you guys can talk about Jimmer's dreamy eyes and how coachie never gives the guy a chance? We're trying to talk about the team and relevant players here. Not guys who get fewer MPG than Travis Outlaw.
So, that sucked. We are really terrible without our best players. We still need a backup point guard that can bring Isaiah down to 34-36mpg and bring a different look to the offense. How can we acquire Brian Roberts or Norris Cole or an equivalent change of pace backup PG?
@Ruben B Displaced in the rotation by another rookie 2nd rounder? There must be a conspiracy!
@KennethBrody It's nice that both Jimmermaniacs and non-Jimmermaniacs agree on the need to get Jimmer out of Sacramento. Perhaps then we can discuss the team's performance as a whole instead of the performance of a 12mpg bench guard.
Glad I could get the comment count up for this fine site. These guys do really excellent Kings coverage and deserve the traffic, even if it comes from Jimmermaniacs.
There's just no convincing those who have faith, absent evidence, that Jimmer is a good NBA player. All these brave souls on the message board, selectively picking certain stats to make their case, calling people haters instead of making arguments, presuming themselves above people who make tons of money to evaluate and deploy basketball talent, ignoring where the rubber meets the road (playing time, trade value). It must be lonely to be smarter than NBA GMs, NBA head coaches, and NBA team writers, none of whom seem to value Jimmer appropriately. Jimmer cannot fail; he can only be failed by others.
Start the guy at SG for the next 5 games, let's pump up his trade value so that we can pick up a 2nd rounder for him, and ship all these non-Kings fans out to OKC or whatever.
5 months, 4 weeks ago on Road Reaction Postgame Show: Houston Rockets 119, Sacramento Kings 98
@benbackstreet @KennethBrody @Jim Les for 3 Good points benbackstreet. Thornton has been so bad that maybe they start Jimmer at SG for a few games (not against Indy please). Our SG spot is the new SF spot pre-Rudy.
6 months ago on Road Reaction Postgame Show: Houston Rockets 119, Sacramento Kings 98
Seriously, it's not all about Jimmer's minutes. Did you hear James' comments on the podcast last week? He wouldn't be getting even these minutes on other teams. He's not going to be on the team next season; he'll most likely be a human victory cigar on the Heat or Spurs. The reason Malone has gone away from him is that he's not a point guard. He gets trapped constantly, has trouble getting the team into their offense and he turns the ball over too much. At this point I doubt they'll give him much run at SG because, as we know, he won't be on the team next year.
Now you can flame me for stating the obvious.
So, back to the game, obviously we're not going to win on the road when our 2 best players get hurt. The Indy game doesn't look promising. It's disappointing that Gay got hurt when he's been playing so well. We've been competitive in every game lately. The team is trending upward. I hope we don't get horrible news about Gay, and it's time for Derrick Williams to step up and show why he is the next starting SF if we can't resign Gay.
Shot charts for this season:
Jimmer is a good three point shooter and a bad finisher in the paint (40%). Jimmer has taken 29% of his shots in the paint and another 33% from behind the line, shooting an excellent 50% from three.
Isaiah is a good three point shooter and an average finisher in the paint (52%). He takes 41% of his shots in the paint and another 10% from the top of the 3pt line, where he's at 50% on 52 attempts.
Extrapolating from these charts, I would basically call Jimmer a shooter who shouldn't drive, while Isaiah is an average finisher in the paint (possibly above average for a PG, can't figure out how to sort for that) and a shooter. On top of that, since Isaiah became the starter the team is 8-9 and he's averaging 21pts/7.6AST/1.4STL/2.4 3PT on 41.4% from three.
Per 36 stats comparison:
6 months, 1 week ago on Sunday Musings: Jimmer Fredette finds a role and some perspective with the Sacramento Kings
@Em Gee @zeke22 @TABDOG @Jim Les for 3 So when does he start having a better career? Because Isaiah has outplayed him for three seasons now.
@Cowbb @zeke22 @TABDOG @Jim Les for 3 They had the same coaches. Jimmer was the 10th pick in the same draft that IT was the 60th pick in. They play the same position. How have their experiences been different? Isaiah is simply a better player. The trade market surely values IT more than Jimmer. To not recognize that is to be willfully ignorant of reality because you support a certain player.
@TABDOG @Jim Les for 3 Yes, the facts say that IT is a better player than Jimmer. From zeke22's post above:
Career Numbers: Per 36 minutes
Isaiah Thomas:18.5 points per game, 13.9 shots per game, 1.33 points per shot (elite efficiency) 6 assists per game, 2.5 turnovers per game, 2.4 assist to turnover ratio, 3.2 rebounds per game. 44.6 FG%, 38 3PT %.
Jimmer Fredette: 16.6 points per game, 14.74 shots per game, 1.124 points per shot (mediocre at best efficiency) 3.5 assists per game, 2.4 turnovers per game, 1.5 assist to turnover ratio, 2.8 rebounds per game, 41 FG%, 39.5 3PT %.
@TABDOG @Jim Les for 3 You have no evidence of this.
@TABDOG @Jim Les for 3 Shark jumped.
@TABDOG @Jim Les for 3 See above. Evaluating performance =/= "hatin".
@drewnusser @Jim Les for 3 @Em Gee @sosasura Great post and I find your points generally persuasive.
A couple things: college is not the pros. It doesn't matter what anyone did in college against anyone else's team. Is any other player from those SDSU or BYU teams in the pros? I think its pretty clear that Leonard learned defense from playing on the Spurs, not necessarily being the star at SDSU.
Jimmer has been playing well. I still think his ceiling is 8th man because he can't create his own shot (other than transition threes), his ballhandling is not above average, and he's not very quick. Remember him getting stuffed twice in a row last night? He played 19 minutes; that is great! If he can play every game like that he will be a good bench scorer for some team.
I like the guy as a locker-room guy. Demarcus seems to like him. My primary priority is the Kings organization. Whoever gets the Kings organization to the next level is my guy. Odds are Jimmer won't be a King next season, so I'm basically pulling for him to play well to help the team by increasing his trade value or helping them win games.
@Em Gee @sosasura Making arguments for why Jimmer is basically the player that he's shown to be since he was drafted =/= "Haters and naysayers".
Also, he's shooting 50% from three on 36 total shots. Small sample. His career stats are an excellent .395. He's 2nd in the NBA in FT% on 13 total shots. His career stats are an excellent .856.
He played well last night. Let's imagine he went 3-9 instead of 5-9. Would you still say he played well, or would you say he played like a bench player? He's not going to shoot 5-9 every night.
Everyone is pulling for the guy but some of his fans are irrationally exuberant about his abilities. I hope he continues to play well.
@KennethBrody @Jim Les for 3 Scar and hurt him? The guy makes millions per year to play professional basketball. Let's have a little perspective.
Great win tonight. Lots of ball movement, excellent contributions from the bench. The Cavs youngsters looked horrendous, though Irving is usually a beast. How do you blow that many lottery picks?
6 months, 1 week ago on CK Press Box Report: Sacramento Kings 124, Cleveland Cavaliers 80
@benbackstreet @discocricket It's hard for me to envision a scenario where Keith Smart isn't regularly urged by the front office to play the team's lottery pick. I blame Smart for a lot but I think he ran Jimmer out there as much as he could afford to. It's not like Jimmer is setting the world on fire under Malone. He's better but still not good.
@Cowbb @discocricket @JonathanLingo I guess I just disagree the idea that he wasn't given a chance to develop. He averaged 18mpg his rookie year and put up a 10.8 PER. The guy picked last in his draft class averaged 25mpg and put up a 17.6 PER. You don't think the entire organization would have preferred for the outcomes to be reversed? If you mean "the organization was poorly staffed and not able to develop players" than I totally agree.
@JonathanLingo @discocricket I bow to no one in my lack of respect for Keith Smart's coaching ability. I still can't grok the scenario: Jimmer was the lottery pick that they moved down in the draft to acquire. He was a 4 year college player. He was marketed by the organization as the guy who could play next to Tyreke. I'm sure Petrie was in Smart's ear about his lack of PT. I can't see a reason for not giving Jimmer developmental minutes other than his play.
@JonathanLingo So why didn't he get chances? Could it be that he never earned it with his performance in practice or in games? Why couldn't he get minutes over the last player selected in his draft class?
@benbackstreet I see 17.4ppg per 36 at Basketball Reference. I also see he's shooting 43% on 2 pointers. That's modest. His upside is a 20mpg 8th man. His most likely role is that of a 3pt specialist off the bench, playing with a tall PG.
The thing you have to ask yourself is: for three years, on three bad teams, for three coaches, why hasn't Jimmer become valuable enough to play significant minutes or even earn a pickup of his option? You'd think if it was just the Kings organization undervaluing him, teams would come calling.
It's too bad it didn't work out better for Jimmer and the Kings organization. I expect him to be traded within the month. Hopefully he can build himself into a solid rotation player on another team without the baggage of being a failed lottery pick. He can have a 10 year career in the league if he works on his deficiencies and finds the right organization.
McLemore is pretty green out there, and should have been able to begin the season seeing minutes against other teams' bench units. Say 10pmg, climbing to 15mpg after a month or two, and so on.
Unfortunately Coach Malone has been dealing with the disappearance of Marcus Thornton, quality NBA player, and the outcome was starting Ben before he was ready. I hope we haven't hurt his development too much. That said, Ben needs to start hitting shots and learning to play team defense.
@ Asharma: Kendrick Perkins might be the worst starter in the NBA, but otherwise this trade idea is intriguing. I can't see OKC giving up Lamb for Thornton and Jimmer.
6 months, 1 week ago on Ben McLemore readjusts to life back on Sacramento Kings bench
Allen is an excellent model for McLemore. Allen was a top player for many years, and quite athletic in his early career. Ben just needs to have the game slow down some. It takes time.
6 months, 2 weeks ago on Ray Allen weighs in on comparisons to Ben McLemore
Nice win. The defensive rotations were better and we didn't allow 100 open threes. Rudy played like the 2nd/3rd option we want him to be. I only saw 2-3 questionable shots from him. Ball movement was good and we kept our composure down the stretch.
6 months, 3 weeks ago on CK Press Box Report: Sacramento Kings 108, Miami Heat 103