Jim Les for 3
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@DavidEchard I like Lowry but it will take $10M per year to get him to Sacramento, and I expect IT to resign for around $8M. Lowry is better but he's also been known as a poor locker room guy for most of his career. Do we need that guy replacing Cousins' closest friend on the team?
As for McCallum, I like the guy, but:
1) he's been playing like 43mpg, so knock his counting stats down 20% or so for starter-equivalent minutes
2) it's the end of the season and some teams are packing it in
3) it's a 10 game sample
It's way too freakin' early to be considering him as a starting PG for a team looking to get to the postseason.
6 months, 1 week ago on Sunday Musings: Can the Sacramento Kings afford to let Isaiah Thomas go?
Demarcus is just hard to relate to as a fan. He's improved so much on the court, I love watching the guy play this season (mostly). Like many young men what he lacks is experience and perspective.
Imagine being 23 years old, having some embarrassing moments of yours forever preserved in time on video and in articles. Imagine being targeted by agents, hangers-on, and opportunists since you were a young teenager. Imagine being so clearly talented yet being advised by players who are clearly less talented. Imagine having a 13K square foot house! Imagine being constantly reminded of your bouts of immaturity by writers and fans.
Demarcus doesn't play the public figure game well. He may improve in this area as he gets older. Look at guys like Webber, Barkley, etc. Very intelligent men who, at first, chafed at the expectations of an NBA star off the court. I think Cousins will develop his off the court "celebrity" game eventually, but it's hard to blame a guy for being wary of some of the media.
6 months, 3 weeks ago on Sunday Musings: Understanding DeMarcus Cousins
Great win! The 3rd quarter was so ugly. So much heroball, some really ugly turnovers by Gay. Let's see how the offense looks with a full training camp. Kings played some good team D tonight as well.
7 months, 1 week ago on CK Press Box Report: Sacramento Kings 117, Washington Wizards 111
@Em Gee @KingsAllDay C'mon now. I can pull up a Quincy Douby Youtube highlight reel. He's playing in China.
The next Steve Nash with better shooting skills? Wow.
7 months, 1 week ago on Game 66 Preview: Sacramento Kings at Chicago Bulls
@Em Gee I have to give you credit for your faith in the guy. I bet you could get some generous odds in Vegas on your prediction.
@GrantChristensen Perhaps. If I'm Jimmer I'm wondering if the 3 minutes a game I'm getting in Chicago is going to cost me a multiyear contract this offseason. Other organizations are going to want to see him play legit game minutes.
As for the game, we'll be getting walloped IMO. Chicago is so well coached and their defense can just grind us down.
I hope Ben can be Gerald Green before his rookie deal is up! I'm looking forward to seeing how Ben deals with summer. Does he work hard to come in as the starting SG, or slack off? Does he work on the right things with the coaching staff, or does he self-direct? I want to see better ballhandling and better defensive awareness from Ben, or I'd like to see us bring in a Dorell Wright or Tony Allen-type; a 2-3 year contract for a veteran who can start in year one and gradually transition to the bench. Unfortunately we will have to pick up that piece before knowing how Ben's summer turns out.
7 months, 2 weeks ago on Is Ben McLemore the next Gerald Green?
@KMFA @Jim Les for 3 Of course we can criticize this team! They're 22-42! You're just 100% negative about anyone not named Jimmer Fredette, who doesn't even play here anymore!
The Kings are clearly on a different path then they've been on for the last 5-6 seasons, and fans like me are happy about some small rays of hope coming out of the organization. Let us celebrate those rays of hope while still holding management and the players accountable.
You can keep saying that people are trying to bully you, but what I see is that you tried to get around getting banned. Calling you out for that isn't bullying.
There's that tic again TABDOG: the word capitalization. That's how we know it's you. Any mod could just check your IP and confirm it.
They freakin' love Jimmer over at Blog A Bull! They would love to have you!
7 months, 2 weeks ago on Ray McCallum embraces role as change-of-pace defender for Sacramento Kings
McCallum is playing great right now. He's earning more minutes for next season and holding the Kings off from signing a veteran backup PG. All on a cheap contract. What's not to love?
@KMFA @Jim Les for 3 I am not trying to bully you or anyone else. Your assertion is false and extremely disingenuous coming from the former TABDOG, who continually harassed other message board users. If you're not TABDOG, then the coincidences are stunning.
I've simply suggested that since you seem not to enjoy the Kings team and only comment to criticize current players and praise former players, maybe you'd enjoy posting elsewhere. I know that we'd all enjoy you posting elsewhere. It's not my site so it's not my call.
You got banned before for only posting to pick fights. Here you go again.
@KMFA @KingsAllDay Let us note that a prior tic of TABDOG was to capitalize the word "facts" just like the above post did. Moderator, please ban this second-generation TABDOG username.
Concern troll KMFA's concern is noted.
@KMFA Jimmer plays for the Bulls. Please go discuss him there.
Oh look another Kings concern troll. Your concern is noted. Moving along.
7 months, 2 weeks ago on Game 65 Preview: Sacramento Kings at Philadelphia 76ers
Turnovers are a problem, as they are for any new group of players. It's probably important to note that while we averaged only 13 turnovers per game at the start of the season...we were terrible to start the season (4-10 or 4-11 depending on your cutoff). We have only one guy from the opening night starting 5 still starting.
I'm more concerned about the assist to turnover ratio or total assists than the turnover count. We have good offensive rebounders that can generate second chances for us, mitigating the loss of possessions. These guys need to stop with the home run outlet pass. That would save us 1-3 TOs per game.
7 months, 2 weeks ago on Turnovers handicapping Sacramento Kings offense
McCallum has had some solid games. If you can get a rotation player out of a second rounder, you're doing it right. I'm looking forward to seeing what Ray can bring to finish out the season.
7 months, 3 weeks ago on Ray McCallum takes advantage of late season opportunity
Nice coverage in the video, guys. Is Demarcus always that....reserved in postgame comments?
7 months, 3 weeks ago on CK Press Box Report: Sacramento Kings 96, New Orleans Pelicans 89
Shut up Phil. Stop hitting the Zing vodka. We all remember how the arena plans went down during the Maloof regime.
7 months, 3 weeks ago on Phil Jackson shares new perspective on Sacramento Kings' near move to Seattle
Nice challenge. Let's see Demarcus be a leader and lead this team to a good finish. He's grown up some this season. Time to show that you are a franchise guy in all respects, not just on offense.
7 months, 3 weeks ago on Sunday Musings: A challenge to DeMarcus Cousins
@Charger11 @nchr McLemore looks absolutely terrible. He's also a rookie. Kevin Martin looked pretty bad as a rookie too. If McLemore doesn't pick it up soon he's going to be coming off the bench behind a veteran next season.
I basically agree that at some point, they should have run Jimmer out there for extended minutes. Prior management was prior management. Those guys were a disaster on every level. This year, I think that the die was cast in preseason when they didn't pick up his option. Having no incentive to play him over players who were under contract for the future (Thornton, Outlaw) or rookies (McLemore, McCallum), this year turned out really poorly for Jimmer. At PG, I think Malone believes that Jimmer is incapable of being an NBA-caliber ballhandler and passer.
It sucks. It basically sucked for everyone involved. We'll agree to disagree on his level of potential. Ah the Grant Napear show. I'm just outside the coverage area but i do miss his rants :)
7 months, 3 weeks ago on A final conversation with Jimmer Fredette
@Charger11 @Jim Les for 3 @KennethBrody I agree that the assist metric is flawed. However it is the metric that is in use. You are welcome to construct an analysis that proves your point about Isaiah "overdribbling". You could probably make some money from it even. I don't think your assessment is correct.
You don't think IT earned his playing time? How do you think playing time works? Why would the team give the unknown 60th pick more opportunity than the nationally-known 10th pick? I still haven't seen a good answer to this question.
"It would be intelligent for certain “people who work in professional basketball” to give more player development time to the player who has the higher potential. "
Sure. So given that they didn't do that, who do you think management thinks has more potential? Given that one guy just got bought out and the other one had the guy starting in front of him shipped out and is going to get seriously paid this summer, who do you think management thinks has more potential? Who do you think the league thinks has more potential?
@Charger11 @Jim Les for 3 @KennethBrody It doesn't matter that I don't know who you are. You haven't made any arguments that persuade me, or refuted my arguments, so I'm going to defer to the people who do this for a living in my judgments of players. Neither of us care if you don't convince me or I don't convince you. I think I'm on more solid ground; you think otherwise.
I'm just pointing out that you're not making logical arguments in favor of your position.
It's pretty amazing that you don't need to see practices to evaluate players. That would be unusual by the standards of pro basketball.
You're basically arguing against using evidence or expertise to evaluate things. Is that your intention?
Why do you need to resort to ad hominem?
@Charger11 @Jim Les for 3 @KennethBrody Thanks for replying. Actually you are not correctly stating my argument and thus not correctly responding to it. My argument is that on average, I expect Kings management to be better evaluators than Kenneth Brody. I think this is especially true given that Kenneth Brody is not employed as a professional evaluator and deployer of basketball talent. Our management works in a highly competitive talent market. This is not a perfectly efficient market, but certainly has high financial stakes. Kenneth Brody being wrong about Jimmer has no financial ramifications for a $550M business. Kings management being wrong about Jimmer does have those ramifications. Kenneth Brody's job is to be a fan of a player and a team. Kings management's job is to make money and win.
Some fans who do understand basketball very well write blogs and have even become journalists and organization members (see John Hollinger).
As to your McLemore arguments, McLemore could be a bust. He does have bad hands. But I'm willing to bet much more on the Kings organization's ability to make those assessments than your ability. Remember how much more they know about a player than you do. They see practices: we don't. They know the player's personality: we don't.
It's important not to overrate your own ability to succeed in a competitive market with players that have more resources than you do.
@Charger11 @Jim Les for 3 @KennethBrody Thanks for replying.
Distilling your points: "Maybe he's sensitive--so what?" So in a system like pro basketball, where the best 10 players make $18M a year in salary, the best 450 players get an NBA paycheck, and the next best 1000 players have to play in the D-League or overseas, being sensitive isn't an asset. That's basically why Jimmer has never complained to the media; he knows it's about his game only.
The link to his actual game is that, in my view, Jimmer partisans try to shift blame for Jimmer's performance to date onto other sources like the organization, the coaches, etc. My point is that other players suffered from the same issues. Remember, the 60th pick in the draft rarely even suits up for an NBA team. Ours beat out our lottery pick three seasons in a row.
Isaiah was not "given" but rather earned his playing time. Remember, we're talking about the 60th pick in the draft. He's actually an above average shooter by TS% and EFG. He's also not a ball stopper, but rather tied for 11th in the NBA in assists per game (10th among point guards).
Jimmer's inability to overcome his supposed "abuse" is really his own problem. His inability to overcome this to date has cost him probably tens of millions of dollars in future income. The league is about performance. Coaches and GMs rarely get the opportunity for three-year plans. It's a "what have you done for me lately" league.
I hope that Thibs gets performance out of him. I like the Bulls and I think Thibs is a good coach, and it's probably a good landing spot for him based on their experiences with Korver, Belinelli, Nate Robinson, etc.
To your statement: "It is just possible that, because of player abuse by coaches Smart and Malone, we haven’t seen the real Jimmer yet."
Yes, it is possible. I just think it's unlikely. I think it's unlikely based on his performance to date. I think he's basically Eddie House, Damon Jones, etc.
@KennethBrody I appreciate your continued engagement on this issue and your distancing from the uglier comments left here by Jimmer fans.
In my view comparisons to Steve Nash or Stephen Curry are just.....out there.
I just don't understand why you would call people who work in professional basketball "simple-minded" in contrast to your own abilities to project player performance. Doesn't it make you uncomfortable to presume that you (a Jimmer partisan) are better able to evaluate and deploy talent than people who get paid to 1) win games 2) develop players?
Criticism and suggestion are the bases of sports fandom, but in your comments I basically see irrational exuberance projected from desire.
The problems with the Kings are multifaceted and are in something like the following order:
1) Poor level of investment from the prior owners
2) Downstream from low investment, poor management
3) Downstream from poor management, botched draft picks and poor player development
4) Downstream from botched picks and poor player development, a low asset base.
Jimmer (and every other Kings player) suffered from all these issues. Some players overcame them to get minutes. Some didn't. The 60th pick in Jimmer's draft overcame them and outplayed him every season. He's going to get a $30-$40M contract in a couple of months. Jimmer right now is hoping for a 2 year, $4M contract in a couple of months.
Still 0 for the season without Cousins.
7 months, 4 weeks ago on Road Reaction Postgame Show: Los Angeles Lakers 126, Sacramento Kings 122
@Jhuggs34 I'm not sure I want our good scorers getting our underwhelming rookie more involved in the offense. McLemore looks very green out there right now. If we were actually playing to win games he'd be getting about 10mpg.
I don't want to see Isaiah overshooting in this one. Let's see some ball movement into the frontcourt. Williams needs to be making quick cuts and getting out in transition. McLemore should continue to work on getting to the line and establishing the drive before moving out to the corner three. Go Kings!
7 months, 4 weeks ago on Game 58 Preview: Sacramento Kings at Los Angeles Lakers
@GrantChristensen Obviously a shot at Cousins, and not an unfair one. In last week's podcast James gave Chuck Hayes a little business for being out of shape and spoke to the general idea of the organization not being well-disciplined during the last few Maloof years. I would love a guy like Taj Gibson on this team.
7 months, 4 weeks ago on Why Jimmer Fredette no longer made sense for the Sacramento Kings
@CowbellKingdom @TABDOG Thank goodness.
@Em Gee @Jim Les for 3 We heard you guys the 10th time. How many times do you have to repeat the same thing? No one from the Kings organization cares now. It's over, the guy is on the wire. Tomorrow he'll be signed by Chicago. Please take your friends over to www.blogabull.com.
Alright guys, it's time for us to keep trolling this Kings message board even though our favorite guy was bought out. There are some Kings fans on there that haven't yet internalized our message. I know we're all scared to go post at the biggest Kings site because there are meanies there. Luckily this is a safe space for us to bring out our statistically insignificant small sample size arguments and "Keith Smart is a racist!" arguments. I figure if we keep saying them maybe they'll come true. Anyway, see you guys in the next thread ok?
So, is this the last thread where you guys all cry on each others' shoulders and badmouth the Kings, or is it when Jimmer signs with another team? Just planning here......
7 months, 4 weeks ago on Sacramento Kings free Jimmer Fredette
@TABDOG That's pretty rich coming from the ringleader of the "I hate the Kings cause they don't play Jimmer!" crew. Your lack of self-awareness is commendable. Congrats on ruining a discussion board for my favorite team with your whining and preening. You should be proud.
8 months ago on Jimmer Fredette talks NBA trade deadline and future with Sacramento Kings
@TABDOG "Finally, those Kings fans are gone so that me and the boys can talk all day about how bad the Kings organization is and how cool Jimmer is! Thank goodness we're at a Kings blog!"
Frontline coverage of people Jimmer Fredette would be ashamed of
Not that anyone cares but I'll be on Sactown Royalty until this Jimmermania blows over. No disrespect to James and Jon, who run a great site and a stellar podcast.
The ratio of Kings fans to strictly Jimmer Fredette fans is a little more reasonable over there. See you in 2 months.
@TABDOG @Jim Les for 3 See, you continue to mistake your opinions and predictions for facts. They are different things. Then you create strawmen and knock them down. Classic troll behavior. Stop trolling the board of a team you want to fail.
8 months, 1 week ago on Road Reaction Postgame Show: Sacramento Kings 106, New York Knicks 101
@TABDOG @Jim Les for 3 I suppose I'll go down this rabbit hole once more with you.
It's not at all correct to sat I made an evaluation of him without the facts.
What is correct is to say that you and I looked at the facts (his performance to date) and made different extrapolations of what the past tells us about the future. The only "facts" that exist are Jimmer's NBA stats and his performance in practice. We are only privy to one set of those. Everything else (your prediction of how Jimmer will perform with 20-25 MPG) is not a "fact" but rather a "hope" or "prediction". I am making the prediction, based on the facts of his past performance, that his ceiling is 20mpg or so. You are making a different prediction based on the same facts. One of us will be more or less wrong, eventually. Everything else is conjecture, hope, predictions. People who disagree with your conjecture, hope, and predictions are not "haters".
I feel like this is an elementary point.
In the NBA, coaches and management need to use small sample sizes of performance to predict future performance. To repeat myself for the 40th time, my prediction is not some wild theory. It seems to be the opinion of the coaching staff and the front office. We all may be wrong. You may be correct. But there are no "facts" that you see that others don't.
Anyway, he played great last night. I know you feel vindicated. Congrats for that. I'm not going to crap on the guy after a career night.
@TABDOG @Jim Les for 3 Agree. Thornton has Steve Blass disease.
For a laugh, visit the Angry Knicks Fan video in reaction to the game last night
@TABDOG @SSSDMC15 What would you disagree with exactly?
Point 1: I don't think Jimmer has much value on this Kings squad, or to other teams. The proof is that they didn't pick up his option and don't play him. We'll see what his market value is either in the next 2 weeks or during the offseason. What do you think he'll fetch in trade? Luol Deng couldn't even secure a guaranteed first rounder. What do you think he'll get in FA? Unless he starts getting 30mpg and blows up, do you think he'll get more than $2M per year on a 1-2 year deal?
Point 2: He's not a relevant player on the Kings. The team has no incentive to play him over Thornton and McLemore, and they don't. Even if they think he will win them more games, that's clearly not the goal of the team this season, as pronounced by the owner! That's my definition of relevant on the Kings. What's your definition exactly?
Keep trolling though, you're doing a great job of representing Jimmer Fredette.
@SSSDMC15 @Jim Les for 3 We're cool SSSDMC15. I'm not offended or angsty really. I don't think calling people haters is conducive to good message board discussions. I guess we disagree on that. No biggie. Perhaps I am mislabeling myself as one of the Jimmer "haters" you mention. That's because other Jimmer fans (not you) have called me a hater for disagreeing with them. Since we haven't had that exchange before, I shouldn't have done that.
Jimmer's ability is a thing that it's possible to disagree on, as with any player. I think Landry is useless, on this team for example. I think the front office disagrees with me! I personally think Jimmer has some ability and is an NBA caliber player. Others may disagree. He played a great game last night for sure and was clearly the reason the Kings were able to pull it out.
What's probably weird for Jimmer fans (and Kings fans) right now is the fact that the Kings have no real incentive to play Jimmer over McLemore. Since the ownership group doesn't care about this season's wins, it doesn't even matter if Jimmer outplays both Thornton and McLemore, since Thornton is under contract for next season and McLemore is the lottery pick. I understand that can be a tough place to be if you're a fan of Jimmer.
Jimmer will clearly not return to the Kings next season. He shouldn't for his own sake.
@hsvjones Well, basically because Jimmer won't be coming back to the Kings and McLemore is their lottery pick. The ownership said that they don't care about wins and losses this year, so they're throwing him out there to learn.
@SSSDMC15 @Jim Les for 3 That has nothing to do with Jimmer and everything to do with your behavior. Own it. Do you call everyone who disagrees with you a "hater" in public?
@SSSDMC15 Calling people who disagree on a player "haters" isn't constructive. It's a team message board, people disagree and talk about it. That's the nature of sports fandom.
8 months, 2 weeks ago on Road Reaction Postgame Show: Sacramento Kings 106, New York Knicks 101
Jimmer played great tonight, hats off to him for hitting a number of big shots.
Are we arguing about Jimmer Fredette again? How tiresome.
This was a bad loss. We suck when Rudy Gay doesn't play. It's like the beginning of the season, except we don't have the dudes we sent to Toronto. Sullinger and Bayless worked us.
8 months, 2 weeks ago on Road Reaction Postgame Show: Boston Celtics 99, Sacramento Kings 88
@benbackstreet @Jim Les for 3 @layituplikeaman ? To answer your question, yes, I watched the game.
8 months, 2 weeks ago on CK Press Box Report: Sacramento Kings 109, Toronto Raptors 101
Fun game. Pretty ridiculous that we let Toronto back into the game. That call on Lowry was as bad as the Paul George 4-point play, but we'll take it. This gives us good momentum to go on our Atlantic road trip. Boston, Washington, Cleveland, New York. I think we can go 2-2 and possibly 3-1 (Washington is actually competent). We played good defense for the most part (until the 4th).