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@btigano You need to check my tone... i said I can see it working.. also cited what others have reported as obstacles. Cite things any way you want, but "The U" has a long standing (not just recently) reputation of unsavory behavior. I could ask you to name a coaching era there that wasn't linked to some serious behavioral or criminal or academic fraud issue. Add to that the crime ridden area around the orange bowl... I can tell you, former big 8 teams are glad we're not tied to that bowl anymore. Facts are facts.
That said I’m not opposed to bringing in what OTHERS have called "a dumpster fire of a situation", mostly for the positive reasons cited in this thread.
2 years, 8 months ago on Big 12 To Raid ACC? Clemson, FSU and ND Head The List | January
Personally, I can see it working... But I've heard so many negatives, such as the institutional often criminal activity of the teams and the fact the current administration wants to de-emphasize athletics.
Time will tell.
Forget Louisville and add either VT and/or Pitt (if ND doesn't come) to POD 3 and I'm with you. Louisville just isn't attractive to me, despite all the talk.
2 years, 9 months ago on Update on Big 12 Expansion | March
BTW - if the B12 raids the ACC for other schools, what do you think about snagging PITT? Personally, I'd like to snag FSU/CLEMSON/PITT/VT/GT/NCST or Louisville.
2 years, 10 months ago on Update on Big 12 Expansion | March
I love this discussion. There is some talk that FSU is down. Well, with lower revenue (ACC vs SEC) they have stagnated. BUT add them to an expanding B12 opening Texas recruiting grounds to the already rich Florida recruiting... add to that the extra revenue... they'll be back.
Both the ACC and the SEC are "re-opening" their contracts due to the addition of schools... let the B12 get the $20/school for Tier I and II, then reopen when they expand again. Add to that Tier III, all will be good. Heck w/o a conference network OSU made $7mill on Tier III in 2010... can't wait to see final number for 2011. Life is good in the B12. Signing away TV rights to the conference brought the stability the conference needed, now it will return to being a player.
2 years, 11 months ago on Athletic Advisory Committee Formed At Clemson: Time To Get All The Way In | January
@UNCfan.... you say "The ACC will increase each team's revenue potential to 15 million with the addition of Pitt and Syracuse."
Here's a stolen quote from another board...
"The Big 12's current Tier 1 ESPN contract sits at $60M per year, and ESPN wants to renegotiate that Tier 1 contract now as its expiration nears. The prognosticated Tier 1 contract will come in between $120M and $195M.
Fox's Tier 2 contract pays $90M per year through around 2025 to the Big 12. Each Big 12 school retains all Tier 3 income. If the Big 12 hits the low end of the renegotiated Tier 1 contract -- $120M per year -- then Tiers 1 and 2 will pay $210M per year, or $21M per school per year, plus Tier 3 on top of that.
I only have the 2009-2010 Tier 3 revenues available, and here they are:
Kansas - $7,276,988.00
Oklahoma St. - $6,395,000.00
Kansas St. - $3,263,941.00
Iowa St - $2,608,896.00
Texas - $338,171.00 ($11M net from the LHN beginning in 2012)
Oklahoma - $317,361.00 ($4M to $6M beginning in 2012)
Texas A&M - $0
Texas Tech - $0
Baylor [no info]
Big 12 schools will earn a base revenue stream of no less than $21M per school per year very soon now in Tier 1 and Tier 2 revenue (perhaps as much as $28.5M per year if the high end is negotiated), and then you add Tier 3 on top of that. Barring the addition of Notre Dame, the ACC schools will very likely be locked into less than $15M per school per year for Tiers 1, 2, and 3 through the year 2026, according to Street & Smith's Sports Business Journal: http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2012/02/06/Colleges/ACC-TV.aspx
It will soon become very clear whether it's the Big 12 or the ACC that has the questionable bargaining power. In the Big 12, a [former ACC team] ought to earn no less than Oklahoma is slated to earn for the Sooners' Tier 3 income. Less than $15M or at least $26M? ACC or Big 12? Which one would give [you] the revenues to compete with the SEC? You pick.
@Serious_FSU Those who seek other land-grant institutions seek "like-minded" institutions. They are perceived to be such due to their mandated academic focus.
From wiki here is the definition: "The mission of "land-grant" colleges is to focus on the teaching of practical agriculture, science and engineering (though "without excluding ... classical studies"), as a response to the industrial revolution and changing social class. This mission was in contrast to the historic practice of higher education to focus on an abstract Liberal Arts curriculum."
2 years, 11 months ago on Big 12 Expansion Issues & ACC Targets | February
@Law Hawg Because of the success of the SEC. Seriously. As his instate rival enjoys the financial benefits of SEC membership, his revenues fall ever further behind. If he intends on having his school be a legitimate alternative in that region, new revenue sources must be found. The current B12 model starting 2012 will pay more then the projected renegotiated ACC contracts will pay. Add to that the B12 has yet to renegotiate their tier 1 contract which is projected to add so much more... IF THE B12 comes calling, he has to listen.
2 years, 11 months ago on Clemson A.D. Shoots Down Big 12 Rumors
DukeBlue > Awesome post. You nailed everything, and it was a pleasure to read! While I agree with all you said I’d like to provide an additional point of view regarding the exit of the four schools.
Nebraska was unhappy from the inception of the Big12. Main reason was a condition the Texas schools put on the new conference. The condition was the restriction of recruiting classes to no more than one partial qualifier per year. That was a requirement the Texas legislature put on the Texas schools, and so they’d be on equal footing with the new conference, the conference had to agree to be bound by the same restriction. This killed Nebraska’s model for success. They regularly brought in large numbers of partial qualifiers who couldn’t go elsewhere and would beef them up, both physically and academically, during a redshirt year. Thus started their decline. (Losing to UT in the first B12 Championship game didn’t help matters!)
When it came time to leave, I think Nebraska’s departure was nothing but classy. They didn’t make waves publicly until they were ready to move. In fact, in the speech Tom Osborne and Chancellor Pearlman made to the regents, it seemed obvious UNL was willing to stay if the other B12 schools made the commitment long-term (ie sign away 6 year TV revenue), which others were NOT… and therefore for long-term stability (not to mention revenue), the B1G made perfect sense.
CU is a better fit for the PAC. However, considering the financial state of their athletic department I think they expected the B12 to collapse with the exit of half the league and thereby avoid exit fees. In the end this worked out well for all concerned.
aTm is a story of going from the frying pan into the fire! They remind me of a jilted girl friend, who in an attempt to get even starts dating a popular frat boy, only to be used not just by him, but by his frat brothers too! What are they gaining? They think they’re going to get better recruits? Really? They’ve only opened the door wider for other SEC teams. Any kids who wouldn’t have gone to a B12 aTm, are now going to be lured away by Alabama, LSU and maybe even Arkansas way before they go to a SEC aTm… thus they just made their situation worse… but at least they’re not in UTs shadow anymore!!! ;-)
Missouri is the culprit who started the entire instability card that made others start looking around. It is somewhat ironic that even their governor got in the mix by touting the academic superiority of the B1G over the B12… and where did they wind up? Nice… real nice!
To close things out, I did talk to someone directly involved in the B12 conference long-term planning. He said the B1G stability comes from signing their TV rights away for 20 years… it’s like Hotel California! He suggested that once the B12 is set AND the next tier 1 rights are negotiated, the B12 will follow suit and implement the same 20 year deal.
2 years, 11 months ago on Big 12 To Raid ACC? Clemson, FSU and ND Head The List | January
Dealing with the fact that 16 team super conferences will be a thing of reality, i say why wait. The B12 should go for broke and form the BigXVI
WEST:: UT, OU, OSU, TCU, TT, Baylor, KU, KSU
EAST: WVU, VT, UVA, CU, FSU, ISU, Louisville, GT
Good markets, competitive, no-brainer.
@converted 1981 imploding? Projected? Google it. For their tier TWO rights they signed a Billion dollar contract last fall. The tier ONE rights with FSU and Clemson on board will easily take care of that projection.
2 years, 11 months ago on Big 12 Waiting on Clemson and FSU | February
Very weak response there wiley... the B12 lost four schools who combined had been to the BCS three times... by replacing the four with only two (WVU and TCU) they get FIVE appearances AND they haven't finished adding teams yet... The upgrades are obvious, for those with eyes to see.
2 years, 12 months ago on Big 12 To Raid ACC? Clemson, FSU and ND Head The List | January
For those who say schools aren't open to moving or say the move towards super conferences isn't going to happen are simply naive. The momentum has already begun (see 'traditional big 1G" and SEC).
I would love to get CU and FSU into the Big XII, and if CU and FSU packaged a deal and joined the Big XII they would kick open the exit doors from the ACC. Once that happened I would love to see the BIG XVI emerge by adding GT, VT, Pitt, and ND. Think of this Big XVI:
Big 8 Division: OSU, OU, KSU, KU, Texas, TT, TCU, Baylor
Big East Division: Clemson, FSU, VT, GT, WVU, ND, ISU, Pitt
No weak division to argue about. Decent Basketball too. Great Baseball league.
Some argue VT won't leave UVA... if that's the case take UM for VT.
I would love to get those two, and as said below: "If CU and FSU packaged a deal and joined the Big XII they would kick open the exit doors from the ACC". Once that happened I would love to see the BIG XVI emerge by adding GT, VT, Pitt, and ND. Think of this Big XVI:
Big 8 Division: OSU, OU, KSU, KU, UT, TT, TCU, Baylor
2 years, 12 months ago on Athletic Advisory Committee Formed At Clemson: Time To Get All The Way In | January