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The Kings offensive rating (points per 100 possession) is horrid at 99.1 with Isaiah off the floor, vs. solid at 105 with him on the floor. Their defense also gets worse with him off the floor from 105 on the floor to 108.5 with Isaiah off the floor. Also, he gives up a PER of 14.8 (same 82games website), so your idea that Isaiah is a liability on defense doesn't make sense based on that logic. Yeah, he has his struggles, (like most point guards in this league due to the amount of offensive firepower aat the positition) but he's had some very impressive defensive performances against guards like John Wall, Kyrie Irving, Curry, and CP3 throughout his career.
Also Isaiah's got a higher PER than Lowry. Obviously Lowry deserves respect for winning, but you can't blame the losses on Isaiah. Also, when Gay, Cousins, and Isaiah, are all healthy the Kings record is much better, (like 19-21). Add in a stronger supporting cast, and this team has a bright future.
8 months, 1 week ago on Sunday Musings: Can the Sacramento Kings afford to let Isaiah Thomas go?
If Jimmer had this injury (which is very painful), he'd be completely unproductive. Isaiah is still shooting 45% from the field and turning over the ball 2.9 times in 38 minutes since the injury. So don't make stuff up.
10 months ago on Isaiah Thomas plays through swelling in left wrist
He's 5'10 and a half with shoes on. That's higher then average in the U.S.. he's no midget. Sick of Jimmermaniacs pointing out IT's height when they have no other arguments left against him.
10 months ago on CK Press Box Report: Golden State Warriors 101, Sacramento Kings 92
Ben plays 23 minutes game with a lot less competition at his position. (Outlaw and a out of his game Thornton, Jimmer doesn't count because Malone won't play him at SG because he doesn't work defensively with Isaiah). Jimmer played 18 minutes per game as a rookie, and had a lot more competition, (Tyreke Evans, a productive Thornton, and was easily outplayed by Isaiah).
Also, honestly, Jimmer should of played a lot less then 18mpg as a rookie. Isaiah was killing it during the second half of the season, but Smart's rotations were horrible and he still kept playing Jimmer way too much when Isaiah was only getting 25-28 mpg when he should of been playing 36.
If Mclemore played under a productive Thornton,Reke and Isaiah that season with Malone as a coach, I doubt Mclemore would play much.
The Kings organization straight up said it was a B.S. report. Use your head, even the dumbest GM wouldn't trade all of that for a recently injured Point guard. Isaiah contract situation is also better because he's a RFA.
Matt Bonner plays under Greg Popovich, and gets 12 minutes per game, shooting 45% from 3pt land, so by your argument Popovich is stupid. Jimmer is a horrible defender, and isn't going to get minutes and PG because Isaiah completely outclasses him, and Malone isn't going to play JImmer and Isaiah at the same time.
10 months ago on Jimmer Fredette talks NBA trade deadline and future with Sacramento Kings
The answer to why Jimmer doesn't play?
1. Malone won't play him at SG next to Isaiah. Not saying that Malone is right, I'd personally like to see Jimmer at the SG position, but there's a clear logic behind Malone's decision, that Isaiah and Jimmer don't work defensively.
2. Isaiah is going to play 36-38 minutes.
So basically, all that's left is 10-12 minutes. And as far Jimmer not getting enough shots goes, look at his fg attempts per minute, he's taking about 15 shots per 36 minutes, (for about 18 points), he's getting a good amount of looks so don't the idea he doesn't get plays. If you're talking about off the ball screens for Jimmer, he's not going to get those kind of opportunities when he's playing PG.
My point is, that JImmer's playing time has nothing to do with a short leash or a lack of shots
10 months, 2 weeks ago on Road Reaction Postgame Show: Boston Celtics 99, Sacramento Kings 88
Isaiah wasn't even matched up against Jerryd Bayless. I mean seriously, how do you think Bayless got a +14 if Isaiah was on the floor while he was and Isaiah somehow still got a +4?
Jimmer Fredette -17, come on.
Btw, I ain't blaming jimmer, the whole Kings bench sucks, but he's nowhere near as good as Isaiah. Yeah, Isaiah is in a shooting slump right now (which happens to all guards in a long NBA season, see Stephen Curry), but overall Isaiah's still an extremely efficient NBA basketball player.
Every guard has high turnover nights, but you have to look at the averages. And as a starter he has 7.3 assists to 2.9 turnovers, for a 2.33 assist to turnover ratio, which is solid. And when you're looking to score more like his last game where he had to, obviously you're going to turn the ball over more. Even Curry averages more than 4 turnovers per game.
10 months, 4 weeks ago on CK Press Box Report: Indiana Pacers 116, Sacramento Kings 111
First of all, the kings are 9-11 since the trade. 5-14 before the trade. Yes, they are much better. I said the defense was bad, but over the last 10 games, it's gone from 30th in the NBA to 26-27th. (minor improvements, but still means something, and a bigger difference from last season, 106 points per 100 possessions allowed this year, vs. 108 on last season).
And where do get the idea that Isaiah doesn't help the SG's? He's hooked up for MT23 a huge amount of wide open looks that he's simply missed. And Ben is a rookie so he gets some slack, but he's missed a lot of wide open shots coming off screens.
Also don't get why you think Isaiah and Cuz are bad passers. Isaiah is 11th in the NBA in assist opportunities, (setting up a player for a FG attempt) and is higher than good passers like Tony Parker, Mike Conley, Lebron James, and Michael carter Williams. And per 36 minutes, he averages 7 assists a game. Most winning PG's are scorers in this league, Tony Parker wins by averaging 20 and 7 not 10 and 10 for example. That's above average playmaking. DMC is also one of the best passing big men in the NBA in terms of assists. Yeah, he's not consistent and kicking the ball out of the post, but he's by no means a bad passer.
Also the Kings defense is actually a little better with Isaiah on the floor. With him on the floor, they give up 105.6 points per 100 possessions, vs. 107.3 with him off the floor. And offensively, there is a huge difference. 105.5 points on the floor, vs. 99.4 per 100 possessions while off the floor. He leads the team in +/- and is the only member with a positive +/-. He's not the reason this team is losing flat out and simple.
11 months ago on Road Reaction Postgame Show: Oklahoma City Thunder 108, Sacramento Kings 93
That doesn't make any sense. The Kings record is much better since the trade despite playing against even tougher competition. And their offense has improved drastically since the trade while the defense, while still bad, has made mild improvements. How does it not look good? Isaiah, Gay, Cuz, have all played better since the trade. Only player I think the Kings miss is Patrick Patterson who is really a good player. But Jimmer's been a good enough backup PG that we don't need Vasquez.
"Upside is much greater"??? See that's what I don't get. What potential are you seeing? Other then 3pt shooting, Isaiah is far superior than Jimmer in every facet of the game, that's just a fact.
11 months, 1 week ago on Road Reaction Postgame Show: Sacramento Kings 111, Minnesota Timberwolves 108
@TABDOG @Ryan Silva That's the problem. I want Jimmer to play well because I want the Kings to win, because I'm Kings fan. If Jimmer turned into Steve Nash, that'd be awesome. But I'm not delusional, he's showing himself as a good backup PG, no reason to get insane expectations.
In comparison it feels like most Jimmer maniacs always root against at his competition (Isaiah, Reke, Thornton, etc. ) and root for them to fail so that Jimmer can play. They don't care about wins/losses, etc. They just want him to play. It's nothing unique either. Tim Tebow, Jeremy Lin, other basketball college stars among others have gotten ridiculous fan support at the cost of reasoning.
Isaiah plays 36-38 minutes as a starter, vs. 25-28 as a 6th man. There's still a big jump in production. The team is significantly better with him as a starter, that's just statistical fact. Also as far as the win stats go, Isaiah net rating on and off the court are superb. He leads the team in +/- as well.
The team's offense scores 106 points per 100 possessions with him on the floor, vs. 100 points per 100 possessions with him off the floor.
They are individual numbers, not team numbers. Read closely, "How the opposing PG does when Isaiah is on the floor" for example. That means how well Lillard scored when Isaiah was on the floor specifically. So Lillard's game is included in there. But that's one game, you gotta learn to look at the average.
And the shooting efficiency number TS% counts free throw attempts. Meaning if Isaiah has 59 TS% then on his field attempts and every two free throw attempts, he scores at 59% rate when including three pointers. Points per shot, doesn't make that distinction and overvalues for players that shoot free throws a lot, but it's still a good stat because free throws are a underrated part of NBA efficiency.
Isaiah isn't getting assists cause the Kings are athletic. He's a PnR master. (has been his whole career) I mean seriously don't get this rumor that he's a bad passer. He's 12th in the NBA in assist opportunities. (higher then Tony Parker, Lebron, among others) He's been running PnR fantastically with Rudy Gay, there's a reason Gay is so much more efficient. He has great chemistry with Isaiah. Also, Demarcus is much more efficient player when Isaiah's is on the floor. So in fact, Isaiah's the one who makes things easier for both Gay and Cuz, rather then the reverse.
Ray Mccallum is an unproven 2nd round pick. No reason he should be discussed as a better PG then Isaiah.
Look, if CP3 or Curry come to the Kings, sure Isaiah would still be a great backup. But he's played like a top 10 PG this season, (Top 15 without injuries) and is only 24 years old. He has great chemistry with Cuz, and I think makes a great 1, 2, 3, punch with Gay and Cuz.
Lastly, as far as Cuz goes. He should never look to shoot jumpers. That's why his FG% was so bad earlier. Keith Smart had the same idea, and it was horrible. He needs to take it inside every game, and that's why he is having the best season of his career. Malone's done a solid job in my humble opinion, the Kings are slightly better defensively,
Cuz, Thomas, and Gay are all much better under him, and there offense has been fantastic this year. (12th in the NBA)
@tocan @zeke22 @Kingznut
What? It's not Isaiah's fault if the other team's Point guard gets assists. (Tho btw, Isaiah is pretty equal to his matchup in assists on the season). That's more of a testemant to how bad Thornton, Gay, Cuz, and JT are at defense. They are all bad off the ball and PnR defenders. (They leave their man open way too much). Anyways, a good defensive PG is nice, but the reality is they are uncommon. Curry, Parker, Irving, Lawson, etc. are not considered good defenders, but are still great to elite point guards for their offensive production. And Isaiah's is also great.
@tocan @braineater000 @nvlawyer
Thornton's defensive numbers to opposing SG's per 36 minutes: 15.9 points per game, 11.8 shots per game, 57.4 effective field %, 1.35 points per shot. (elite efficiency).
Isaiah's defensive numbers to opposing PG's per 36: 16.2 points per game, 13.6 shots per game, 47.7 effective field goal%, 1.19 points per shot. (average efficiency)
Jimmer's defensive numbers to opposing PG's per 36:
21 points per game, 15.6 shots per game, 61.1 effective field goal%, 1.35 points per shot.
So basically, both Thornton and Jimmer are atrocious defenders. They allow there man to score way too efficiently. Also, realize, Thornton guards SG's which isn't a very talented NBA position and he's still so bad, and Jimmer is guarding backup point guards.
In comparison, Isaiah is by far a better defender then both of them. Why he still has work to do, especially in PnR defense, he's a solid isolation defender, and also remember the PG position is the most talented position in the NBA, and Isaiah's done a semi decent job, (especially the last couple games) of keeping PG's from not killing us. (Obviously I understand he has bad nights)
Anyways, Isaiah elite offensively tho, and combine that with mediocre defense, and he's still a very good PG.
As far as Jimmer vs. thornton goes, both are awful defensively. But atleast Jimmer makes his shots this year. Tho I doubt Malone will ever play Isaiah and Jimmer together.
@al asifyouknow @zeke22 @Kingznut
First off, Isaiah doesn't just get the "obvious assists". That's just an opinion, not a fact. His chemistry with Cuz and Gay is fantastic lately. He does set up the offense, I have no idea where you're getting this from, do you even watch the games?
Seriously, You're talking like Isaiah's runs a bad NBA offense. The Kings are the 12th best offense in the NBA. And Isaiah's a huge part of that. With Isaiah on the floor, the kings score 106 points per 100 possessions which is great. In comparison, when he's off the floor, the Kings score 100 points per 100 possessions, which is absolutely awful and the worst off the court offensive rating on the team. You can't deny that.
As far as stats go, they mean something. You can't just throw them out the window. Every great player has great stats.
Tony Parker, Stephen Curry, Westbrook, Derrick Rose, etc. are all winning starting PG's with dynamic stats.
Btw, here's something interesting for you.
The Kings offense with the "true PG" Grievas Vasquez on the floor: 98.6 points per 100 possessions. That's atrocious. Kings are 10-10 since Vasquez was replaced with Isaiah, and I'd say they are very happy with that move. Kings are 6-4 over their last 10 games, and making great strides. They are already a potent offense, and just need to make some steps defensively.
Isaiah's Opposing PG's Production with him on the floor:
Per 36 minutes: 16.3 points per game, 13.5 shots, 16.4 PER (Isaiah still completely outplays his matchup)
Isaiah's not the best defender, but he's not nearly as bad as you make him out to be. He's pretty close to average, and the reality is the point guard is the most loaded position in the NBA. PG's are on the floor for offense not defense.
"He surprised you with his good shooting"??? That's strange, considering throughout his career he's been borderline elite in efficiency as a scorer. (this season he has TS% of 59%, which is higher then Stephen Curry, CP3, and many others). He's always been an efficient scorer, that's a fact. Also, 2.8 rebounds in 31 minutes is pretty solid for a PG. (average is about 3 for 36 minutes), So don't know you're point there. As far as turnovers go, Isaiah's struggled tonight, but career wise, he takes very good care of the ball and has a solid assist/turnover ratio.
Yeah, he had a bad game yesterday against the Pacers, they're an elite defense, that matches up very well against us. Everyone has bad games, but in terms of consistency, Isaiah's been consistently great this season.
So "Upper echelon PG"??? Yeah. He's dropping 20 points on high efficiency with 7.5 assists with a 9-10 record as a starter. That's great production. You like to point out his short off moments, but you completely ignore the averages.
He's not a ball hog, he's 12th in the NBA in assist opportunities, (measures how much one creates an assist chance for his team) and averages 15.5 shots per 36 minutes. In comparison CP3 averages 15 shots.
Isaiah's Defense: Opposing PG's Production with him on the floor:
@Cowbb Now you just sound like a hater. I mean seriously, you always nitpick at short finite moments to point out Isaiah's flaws, and ignore the overall numbers. He had a bad end of the 4th quarter, but he still dropped 26 points and 7 assists and dominated Rubio (who had five turnovers himself). End of the day, he's 9-10 as a starter and averaging 20ppg and 7apg. Please, Stop disrespecting Isaiah out of jealousy over Jimmer, brother.
As far as Jimmer goes, playing 6 minutes instead of 12 isn't the end of the world. Malone kept Isaiah in the entire second half because he was hot (dropped 20 second half points) and yeah, he probably could of rested him for 3-4 minutes considering Isaiah showed fatigue at the end, but this way too big of deal over 3-6 minutes of playing time.
Isaiah played a solid game other then that ending stretch. End of the day, he dominated Rubio and Barea. I mean seriously? You're frustrated about Jimmer missing his extra second half six minutes. I mean yeah, Malone probably should of rested Isaiah for a little bit , (one reason he struggled at the end was probably fatigue), but it's such a minor deal . As far as playing Jimmer at SG goes, Malone went with gay at SG with D-will at SF, so Jimmer wasn't going to get minutes there anyways. "rookie coach stats"? Now you're just being silly. He's a coach!!! There's no stats other then winning. And of the day, Kings are 10-10 over their last 20 games and making great strides from last season. Also Malone isn't going to give jimmer time at SG anyways, because he doesn't work defensively at all with Thomas.
"True Colors???"" What does that mean? End of the day, Isaiah's a much better basketball player and PG then Jimmer. And he's not going to get minutes at SG for reasons I already explained. (defense, Rudy Gay) So end of the day, this isn't some injustice, it's a coach doing his job.
Isaiah had one bad stretch. He still dropped 26 points and 7 assists and was a big reason we won. He's 9-10 as a starter, (10-10 including the previous game where he played 36 minutes when Vasquez was benched for bad play) and is averaging 21 ppg and 7.5 assists per game as a starting point guard. Yeah he's going to make mistakes, but he's only 24 years old, and is demonstrated himself as a upper echelon starting point guard with a lot more potential as he develops. PG is one of this team's strengths, that's just a fact. If anything, we need a lot more power forwards and a backup center that can play defense, and like you said a starting SG. Isaiah, Rudy, and DMC are an excellent core for this team. Hopefully we could get a starting PF in the draft, and some new defenders in the offseason, and this team could be dangerous as early as next year.
Ignore overall production, and bring up two random stats. First off did you watch the Blazers game? Isaiah played tough defense on Lillard, and only in the 4th quarter did he explode with some extremely difficult shots.
And look at Jameer Nelson and Kyrie Irving's nights the last two games. Isaiah said he's going to step up his defense recently, and so far he has.
11 months, 1 week ago on Sunday Musings: Jimmer Fredette finds a role and some perspective with the Sacramento Kings
Isaiah Thomas: 1.32 points per shot last season (career 1.33)
Jimmer Fredette: 1.2 pps last season (career 1.12)
Stephen Curry: 1.29 pps last season (career 1.27)
Tell me who is Isaiah closer to?
13.9 shots for 18.5 points is a big difference from 14.74 shots for 16.6 points.
And Isaiah isn't just a driver. He's a great jumpshooter and playmaker. There isn't a single legit basketball critic in this league that'd say Jimmer is anywhere near as good as a scorer as Isaiah.
Isaiah efficiency levels for his career are at the same level as Curry in terms of TS%. Obviously, Curry is better and more prolific. But he's a lot closer to Curry then he is to Jimmer in talent and production.
And points per 36 minutes for Jimmer is misleading because he shoots much more per minute, have to look at efficiency. you can't just ignore certain parts of stats.
My point was your "the Kings can't put people in their seats" argument isn't true.
@TABDOG @Jim Les for 3
eFG% isn't a good stat to judge overall scoring efficiency. Else Deandre Jordan would be considered an elite scorer. You have to look at TS%.
In that case, Isaiah has an elite 59% (higher than Stephen Curry and CP3) vs. Jimmer's 55.7% (which is also solid, but very possibly inflated considered his much lower playing time and when you consider his career TS% is much lower)
Look at the stats. Larry Bird's stats were way better then Stephon Marbury. Marbury stat's were also very inefficient unlike Larry Bird. So your argument is stupid. There's rarely a case where better players don't have better statistics.
And 21, 11, and 8 is an elite night, not an ok... ok night. Your argument is just silly man.
And Malone is still starting Isaiah, with even more minutes. So again your argument is silly.
8-9 with him as a starter. Include the game before that, where Isaiah played 36 minutes because Vasquez was benched for awful play. and they are 9-9 in their last 18 games.
Isaiah leads the team in +/-, and every advanced stat shows the team plays better with him on the floor. Carmelo Anthony, Kevin Love, Kyrie Irving, are all subpar teams, but still all-stars. So reality is, you can't say the Kings record takes away from Isaiah's performance. I mean after Cuz, Gay, and Isaiah, there's not one consistent offensive option on this team, and defensively, every SINGLE player is mediocre to poor.
D-Cuz kills a lot more with Isaiah, that's just a fact. DMC stats with Isaiah on the floor, are significantly better then when Isaiah is off the floor. Isaiah can all space the floor at an elite level, and is a PnR master.
You have to factor in volume and free attempts for efficiency man. Else every 3pt specialist would be considered an elite scorer. Matt Bonner, Kyle Korver, etc. have off the charts shooting efficiencies (like Lebron levels). Difference is they play a lot less minutes and shoot a lot less.
And even when you look at it straight up, Isaiah and Thornton had a better TS% then Jimmer last season.
And this season Isaiah has a better TS%.(elite level now)
@TABDOG @Demarcus Cousins
Kings attendance has skyrocketed from last season. And when you consider how poor this team is, it's very impressive.
@Cowbb @zeke22 @KennethBrody @Jim Les for 3
Isaiah tries to do too much inside???. He was the second best finisher in the NBA last season (LBJ was first at 70%), at an elite 67% at the rim. He's a layup master. This season he's less accurate but still great at 62% at the rim. In comparison, Jimmer shoots about 52% at the rim for his career.
Also don't know where you're getting Isaiah gets the ball stuffed a lot. Among starting point guards, he's like 15th in blocks against, so pretty sure that's just an assumption based on his height.
Fact is, Isaiah is an elite finisher. You can say he's being a hero, or too aggressive, but he's good at it. So is D-Rose, Westbrook, parker, etc. That's why they attack.
@Em Gee @zeke22 @TABDOG @Jim Les for 3
Isaiah's has had similar production throughout his career. 18 points and 6 assists, 1.3 point shot, and 2.4 assist to turnover ratio for his career per 36 minutes. This season he has a bit higher efficiency with more volume at 21ppg and 7 assists, but he's been this level of player his whole career. Difference is, Malone is the coach, not Keith "SMART".
@Cowbb @zeke22 @TABDOG @Jim Les for 3
Thomas wasn't in the Kings rotation to start as rookie. He earned his minutes. And I remember during his great play as a rookie, fans being extremely frustrated with Smart for continuing to only play Isaiah 25-27 minutes despite playing great so that Jimmer could get his 16-18. You got to be kidding me if you think there's no talent disparity between Isaiah and Jimmer.
Also, 10 minutes of great playing and 25 minutes of average to really below? That's just not true. Unless he's playing above Lebron levels for those 10 minutes, there's no way that makes sense. He averages 20 ppg and 7 assists per 36 minutes on high efficiency for the season, that's elite production anyway you look at it.
Also, you're argument is Isaiah plays more because he's allowed to play through mistakes is not true. He's more talented that's why he plays more. You can make that same argument for example, regarding Stephen Curry who's very turnover prone and has had a dip in efficiency lately, but is still going to play over Toney Douglass not because he's being allowed to play through his mistakes, but because he's better, straight up.
There's nothing wrong with rooting for Jimmer, but you don't need to disrespect Isaiah in the process.
@drewnusser @zeke22 @Jim Les for 3 @Em Gee @sosasura
My point was, you can't make assumptions off one college game against Kawhi leonard, or short bursts of offensive explosion. He's a 3pt specialist. You think it's unheard of random 3pt specialists to explode for scoring bursts. I've watched the Kings for a lot of years, and there defense is awful. so trust me when I say a 3pt shooter can have 10-15 points any burst, but there role is still designated as a 3pt specialist. And That's where there game ends unless they have a lot more skills. (like Stephen Curry)
@Cowbb @zeke22 @drewnusser @Jim Les for 3 @Em Gee @sosasura
Jimmer was playing 8-10 garbage minutes per game in those few minutes in NOV and DEC. And when his minutes went up deservedly due to his impressive play, his efficiency went down predictably. Isaiah didn't get proper minutes until post-all star break. And predictably, that was his best stretch of this season, and also the Kings best stretch of this season, where they exploded offensively. (Not to mention his consistent minutes helped make Reke and Cuz much more efficient post-all star break as well).
And "gets away with taking the most shots per game"... stop with the jabs at Isaiah. Since he's been a starter, he's 3rd in FG attempts per minute to Big Cuz and Gay, and rightfully so. He's an elite scorer. That's just a fact. He has a higher True Shooting % then Stephen Curry for crying outloud! And Isaiah's "best asset" is to run the offense, flat out and simple. The Kings are great offensively with him on the floor, at 105 points per 100 possessions, vs. awful at 99 points per 100 possessions. He's a PnR master, and a underrated and terrific jump shooter.
@Jim Les for 3
Finishing in the paint is a misleading stat tho because includes some short jump shots. Better to look at shots at the rim (layups).
Isaiah Thomas is a great 62% this season and this is an off year compared to last year where last year he made an elite 67% which was second only to LEBRON JAMES! Mentioned in this ESPN article as well.
Jimmer is like 52% at the rim for his career btw... But that's not his job.
@KennethBrody @Jim Les for 3
Isaiah has done a great job of creating for Ben. Unfortunately, and understandably, he's missed a lot of open threes. He takes a good amount of shots per game, many of which are wide open. He'll be fine and needs some time, but you got to be kidding me if you think Ben's going to get more open looks with Jimmer than Isaiah.
Career Numbers: Per 36 minutes
Isaiah Thomas:18.5 points per game, 13.9 shots per game, 1.33 points per shot (elite efficiency) 6 assists per game, 2.5 turnovers per game, 2.4 assist to turnover ratio, 3.2 rebounds per game. 44.6 FG%, 38 3PT %.
Jimmer Fredette: 16.6 points per game, 14.74 shots per game, 1.124 points per shot (mediocre at best efficiency) 3.5 assists per game, 2.4 turnovers per game, 1.5 assist to turnover ratio, 2.8 rebounds per game, 41 FG%, 39.5 3PT %.
So Isaiah's a superior scorer, rebounder, and playmaker. More efficient by far, and a much better passer.
TS% (factors in FT attempts and FT%) is a much better stat
Isaiah: 59%. Leads all PG's that score more than 15ppg, including Stephen Curry, Tony Parker, and Chris Paul.
He's way better. That's just a fact. Isaiah 8-9 as a starter, and averaging 21 ppg with 8 assists. Those are borderline all star numbers. He's a top 10 pg. Jimmer's showing he could be a decent backup, but that's where his game ends.
@drewnusser @Jim Les for 3 @Cowbb @JonathanLingo
First off, as a rookie, Jimmer's coach was Smart, Ben Mclemore is in a completely different organization. No double standard when different people.
Secondly, Jimmer was a PG as a rookie and was clearly outplayed by Isaiah, vs. Ben who is the starting SG by default because of Thornton's horrendous play. (Jimmer was considered a SG to start the season, but his defense was too bad to pair with Isaiah and is now a PG with the Vasquez trade). Ben has been struggling a lot, but he's got excellent form to his jump shot, and is very good at moving without the ball. Problem is, like Jimmer, he can't create. Difference is, unlike Jimmer, as a SG, it's not his responsibility to create.
Obviously, Jimmer's a better ball handler then Ben, but not nearly good enough to play extended stretches as a PG.
@drewnusser @Jim Les for 3 @Em Gee @sosasura
Kawhi doesn't guard point guards. He guards wing players. And Kawhi had a college team defense around him, not an NBA defense, you can't make assumptions based off that. His overall rookie performance had nothing to do with a 4 game stretch as a starter where most of his production was in blowout minutes.
Straight up, you have to look at his production as a whole, and in comparison to his competition, Isaiah, Tyreke, and Thornton, he wasn't even close. (tho this year Jimmer is clearly outplayin Thornton offensively)
As far as Keith Smart goes, he messed up minutes with everyone, especially Isaiah Thomas and Reke who were truly deserved much more playing time last season. IF you look at JImmer first two seasons, based off Isaiah's play, a good coach could have easily gave more of jimmer's playing time to Isaiah. Isaiah should have averaged 30-36 mpg last two seasons, but Smart went with his bench way too much and had horrendous rotations. My point is Jimmer fans ignore that the whole roster had to deal with the bad coaching of Smart, not just Jimmer.
Isaiah Thomas leads active Point guards in PER and is 8-9 as the Kings Starter. He also leads the Kings in +/-, and the team is significantly better with him on the floor. It's his time. No doubt about that. Numbers don't lie. Look at their career numbers and advanced statistics, Isaiah makes the team significantly better.
@Cowbb @zeke22 @KennethBrody
2 lousy passes? He had zero turnovers last night. So don't where you're getting that from. Thomas played fine last night, he scored 22 points and 8 assists. You can't just ignore that. Yeah Lillard dropped 41, but he scored 26 extremely difficult points in the 4th quarter when the game was already over.
Btw, Isaiah assist-turnover ratio is 2.4, while Jimmer's is 1.4. Also, per 36 minutes, Jimmer turns it over almost as much as Isaiah despite having the ball much less and making a lot less plays. Yeah, Isaiah's gonna commit turnovers and miss shots, which is pretty much the case for all elite starting point guards. For example Curry commits 4.3 turnovers per pgame and hasn't had the best shot selection, but he's still easily the 2nd best PG in the NBA because of how prolific he is. You're grossly overexaggerating his mistakes, I mean he commited zero turnovers last night, and had good shot selection for most of the night.
Lastly, as far as poor ball movement goes, just look at the Kings offensive efficiency with Isaiah on and off the floor. On the floor, the Kings are a efficient 106 points per 100 possessions, vs. an atrocious 99 points per 100 possessions. That's is a great stat that shows Isaiah's impact on the team. Seriously? Jimmer isn't anywhere close to the player Isaiah is. No disrespect to him, but you can't compare them. Jimmer can't ball handle defensive pressure from Mo Williams, while Isaiah could get by him at will. Jimmer's a good spot shooter, but that's where his game ends.
11 months, 2 weeks ago on Isaiah Thomas looks to improve defensive ball pressure
Cousins and Gay do not play better without Isaiah. That's just not true. Gay's been far more effective in pick and pops with Isaiah than in isolation. (Big reason why is FG% is so much higher) and Cousins is also a much better player with Isaiah on the floor. (which has been the case his whole career)
Jimmer did not look good with Gay or Cousins. He struggled with ball pressure and couldn't get the ball down the floor, but luckily Gay was able to score in isolation in the 4th quarter after having to come to relieve Jimmer of the ball. Jimmer's better as a SG then a PG. Hopefully, when Andre Miller comes he gets that opportunities.
Per 36 minutes on the season: (#2 in PER after CP3 among Point guards)
Isaiah's averaging 21.7 ppg, 7.0 assists per game, 2.9 turnovers per game, 15.8 shots per game (elite efficiency), and he also has the best +/- on the team. The point is he's an elite offensive PG.
And he isn't just putting up good numbers, the team's offense is significantly better with him on the floor. 105 offensive rating with him on the floor for the Kings, and an atrocious 99.0 with him off the floor. The team also is worse defensively, when he's OFF the floor! So that adds up to a team worst net rating off the floor of -9.2, (horrible when he's not playing) vs. a team leading -1.2 (competitive basketball) with him on the floor.
Defensively, he gives up 16.5 points on 13.2 shots per 36 minutes. Which isn't good by any means, but when you consider that the depth of talent their is among starting point guards, it's not far from average. End of the day, he's never going to be a premier defender, but neither are most elite starting point guards. Lillard, Curry, Irving, Parker, are all mediocre defenders, but elite players. There job isn't to anchor the defense, it's to lead the offense, same with Isaiah.
Most impressive number of all: 59.2 TS % (factoring 3pters, free throws attempts and makes). Which is the highest among point guards scoring more than 15ppg, and is even higher than Stephen Curry, Chris Paul, and Damien Lillard.
So, if you're telling me no other team in the NBA would make him a starting PG, when looking at his production, I don't what to say. He's more efficient scorer than Stephen Curry for crying out loud and his still scoring in similar volume to Curry.
So for your question, I'll name 12 teams easily. Knicks, Nets, Boston, Charlotte, Dallas, Houston, Indiana, Lakers, Miami, Milwaukee, Orlando, Utah. (and there are various other teams that he'd be the better player for, (such as Isaiah is better than Rubio, but T-wolves are already going in with him) so he's at the very least a top 15 PG IMO, with much more potential to go.
@al asifyouknow @HowardUGrad2010
A eastern conference team and a division team plays within there conference and division a lot more than a western conference team. For example. Toronto might see Chicago three times, OKC two times, and then New York, Brooklyn, and Philly four times. You get the point.
11 months, 3 weeks ago on Road Reaction Postgame Show: Sacramento Kings 110, Houston Rockets 106