AGator
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I played basketball in high school and there was a player like that playing for another school. The star of our team would always get distracted and have a bad game against them. They'd beat us even though I thought we were better. It seems to be a good strategy.
I think a lot more people watch Ole Miss games just to see him play, whether they like him or not. It reminds me of pro wrestling. Would anyone actually watch pro wrestling if the wrestlers didn't have enormous egos and taunt each other?
"They have a lot of really, really good teams and last year probably had as many as they’ve ever had."
When he refers to the SEC as "they" it makes me wonder how well Missouri has adjusted to their new conference.
If the Big Ten is adding AAU schools in the south do you think they'd have interest in Florida and would Florida be interested in the Big Ten?
It seems like the Big Ten would like to add a big population state like Florida with a lot of cable subscribers and football recruits. I'd think UF's administration would at least consider interest from the Big Ten. They might want to associate with the big brain club.
Florida might be a cultural fit. You don't hear many southern accents outside of the panhandle and a few other rural areas. Most people have moved here from northern states. A game with Ohio State might interest more people than Tennessee or Georgia.
Florida is in a division with Missouri and Kentucky in the SEC so the Big Ten wouldn't add much more travel. If the Big Ten adds schools from Georgia, North Carolina and Virginia there would be nearby schools.
Florida would lose some tradition but nobody seemed to notice when UF lost its longest standing rivalry with Auburn a few years ago. Georgia was Florida's once biggest rival but my kids who attend or graduated from UF barely care about Georgia because they never play on campus. Tennessee became a rival in the 1990s when Florida and Tennessee were both good but now that Tennessee has been down it's not a big game. Just as Texas A&M and Missouri are building new traditions in the SEC, Florida could build new traditions in the Big Ten.
Perhaps the Big Ten might take Florida and FSU as a package deal and then Florida would be in a conference with the only school it really needs to play every year. FSU is growing and some day may be an AAU school. It's going to become more difficult to schedule out of conference rivals with an expanded in-conference schedule.
Leagues appear to be adding more in-conference games. That means there will be fewer games against other conferences. The SEC won't be able to show its football superiority against other conferences before playoff and bowl teams are selected. I think the system will evolve into the champions of four conference being in the playoffs. It would probably be easier for UF to get into the playoffs by being in the Big Ten than the SEC.
If the Big Ten ever showed interest in Florida I think it would at least be worth considering.
@I4Bama I agree with you that Bama should take its time dealing with this. It always bothers me when a lynch mob forms and wants immediate action. Although this sounds like a horrendous crime and the players deserve dismissal, Alabama should take a step back, investigate and give consideration to their findings before acting. The players are suspended and no longer are representing the team or university. I don't see any need for hurry.
@Jimisawesome @Roggespierre @JRsec
I sorted R&D by conference to get this list.
Higher education R&D expenditures, ranked by all R&D expenditures, by source of funds: FY 2010(Dollars in thousands)
ACC
5 Duke U. 983,289
11 U. Pittsburgh main campus 822,491
15 U. NC Chapel Hill 755,284
25 GA Institute of Technology 615,833
47 VA Polytechnic Institute and State U. 398,169
57 NC State U. 360,795
74 U. Miami 280,67175 U. VA main campus 276,308
84 FL State U. 237,864
101 Wake Forest U. 192,034
104 U. Louisville 189,090
108 Clemson U. 174,693
137 U. of Notre Dame 110,369
140 Syracuse U. 107,024
189 Boston C. 50,537
Big Ten
2 U. MI-Ann Arbor 1,184,445
3 U. WI-Madison 1,029,295
13 U. MN Twin Cities 786,074
14 PA State U. University Park and Hershey Medical Ctr. 770,449
16 OH State U. 755,194
26 Northwestern U. 603,732
32 Purdue U. main campus 548,980
34 U. IL Urbana-Champaign 515,133
37 U. MD College Park 451,415
39 U. IA 444,034
41 MI State U. 431,373
42 Rutgers, the State U. NJ-New Brunswick 428,432
103 U. NE-Lincoln 191,268
107 IN U. Bloomington 177,520
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71 IN U.-Purdue U. Indianapolis 296,194
122 U. NE Medical Ctr. 138,219
201 U. MD Ctr. for Environmental Science 42,670
Big 12
29 U. TX Austin 589,502
76 U. KS 267,961
79 IA State U. 250,120
93 U. OK 218,089
112 KS State U. 160,679
116 WV U. 154,926
119 OK State U. main campus 147,094
125 TX Tech U. 133,360
309 Baylor U. 10,925
378 TX Christian U. 5,306
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27 U. TX M. D. Anderson Cancer Ctr. 599,529
38 Baylor C. of Medicine 447,874
43 U. TX Southwestern Medical Ctr. Dallas 419,220
81 U. TX Health Science Ctr. Houston 240,772
96 U. TX Health Science Ctr. San Antonio 207,115
105 U. TX Medical Branch 188,399
188 TX Tech U. Health Sciences Ctr. 51,282
397 OK State U. Ctr. for Health Sciences 4,398
PAC 12
4 U. WA Seattle 1,022,740
7 U. CA, Los Angeles 936,995
9 Stanford U. 839,839
19 U. CA, Berkeley 694,049
28 U. Southern CA 592,791
30 U. AZ 586,647
51 U. UT 379,200
62 U. CO Boulder 349,449
64 AZ State U. 329,345
68 WA State U. 304,352
94 OR State U. 216,595
147 U. OR 94,107
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48 U. CO Denver and Health Sciences Ctr. 389,461
66 OR Health & Science U. 314,990
SEC
20 TX A&M U. 689,624
21 U. FL 681,548
35 Vanderbilt U. 504,959
58 U. KY 359,944
72 U. TN Knoxville 291,787
73 LA State U. and A&M C. 289,872
82 U. MO-Columbia 238,500
86 MS State U. 231,675
87 U. GA 230,803
89 U. SC Columbia 229,145
120 Auburn U. main campus 145,115
135 U. AR main campus 113,909
139 U. MS and U. MS Medical Ctr. 110,020
204 U. AL, The 40,762
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155 TX A&M U. System Health Science Ctr. 82,839
164 Medical C. GA 72,015
176 LA State U. Health Sciences Ctr. New Orleans 59,776
459 TX A&M U.-Commerce 2,679
Other Schools
36 U. AL Birmingham, The 489,845
46 U. Cincinnati 411,269
50 U. South FL 385,029
83 U. CT 237,908
110 Tulane U. 165,513
130 U. Houston 119,811
133 U. Central FL 117,985
138 FL International U. 110,271
143 San Diego State U. 99,137
144 Rice U. 97,903
146 U. NV, Reno 95,423
175 U.S. Air Force Academy 62,097
180 FL Atlantic U. 56,472
191 U. Memphis, The 49,517
197 U. NV, Las Vegas 44,457
203 U. Southern MS 42,059
221 Brigham Young U. 32,997
253 East Carolina U. 23,995
258 U.S. Military Academy 22,171
268 Southern Methodist U. 18,742
269 Boise State U. 18,731
307 U.S. Naval Academy 11,093
from
http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/nsf12330/pdf/tab15.pdf
That picture in the wheelchair link shows Noel's knee bent sideways as he landed after jumping. You've got to be concerned about ligament damage when you see a knee at an unnatural angle like that.
I don't think UF got good in basketball by investing in the sport. UF stumbled onto a good coach and now that he has succeeded is paying enough to keep him from moving to another job. I doubt Florida paid Donovan much when he was first hired. He was a young guy just starting a coaching career at Marshall and wasn't a big name. Success came before the investment. If Donovan had won national championships at any other SEC school they'd be paying him well too.
I think an SEC - Big 12 scheduling alliance would actually help the ACC rather than hurt them.
The ACC would likely go the way the Big Ten appears to be heading and play as many as ten conference games with a few early season cupcakes and the four SEC-ACC rivalry games. With very few games remaining against other conferences the ACC would have a conference champion finishing with a good record and appear to have a legitimate claim on a playoff spot. The ACC would likely win one or two of their SEC games each year (Louisville beat Kentucky last year, FSU and Clemson are going to win a fair share of their rivalry games). Assuming the ACC would win almost every game against cupcakes there would be no way to show they are a weaker conference and less deserving of a playoff spot. A bigger in-conference schedule puts the ACC back on an even playing field with other conferences. Their teams will look just as good as anybody else and their schools will be happier and less likely to leave the conference.
The same is true of the Big Ten. A bigger in-conference schedule with a few early season cupcakes means their schools won't get beat up by other conferences and will look just as good as anybody else when playoff and bowl teams are selected.
I don't read it as blaming the media. He should have known it wouldn't look good when people learned of it through the media.
I sometimes wonder why coaches give press conferences or public speeches. All I ever hear is the awkward or embarrassing things coaches sometimes say.
UF usually ranks about the same as UNC in total R&D expenditures, some years higher, some years lower. The two schools are pretty close for 2011. Duke might become the unquestioned standard bearer but I don't think I'd say that about UNC.
Thirty institutions reporting the largest FY 2011 R&D expenditures in all fields, by source of funds: FY 2011(Million of current dollars)
Rank Institution All R&D
1 Johns Hopkins U. 2,145
2 U. MI Ann Arbor 1,279
3 U. WA Seattle 1,149
4 U. WI Madison 1,112
5 Duke U. 1,022
6 U. CA San Diego 1,009
7 U. CA San Francisco 995
8 U. CA Los Angeles 982
9 Stanford U. 908
10 U. Pittsburgh main campus 899
11 U. PA 886
12 Columbia U. in the City of New York 879
13 U. MN Twin Cities 847
14 OH State U. 832
15 PA State U. University Park and Hershey Medical Ctr. 795
16 Cornell U. 782
17 U. NC Chapel Hill 767
18 U. FL 740
19 Washington U. St Louis 725
20 MA Institute of Technology 724
21 U. CA Berkeley 708
22 U. CA Davis 708
23 TX A&M U. 706
24 U. TX M. D. Anderson Cancer Ctr. 663
25 Yale U. 657
26 GA Institute of Technology 655
27 Harvard U. 650
28 U. TX Austin 632
29 Northwestern U. 619
30 U. AZ 611
Who are the couple of Midwest university opportunities for the Big Ten? Notre Dame certainly would be one but who is the other?
The only major midwest universities not already in the Big Ten are Cincinnati, Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State and Missouri. I doubt the Big Ten is interested in Cincinnati, Iowa State or Kansas State. Of the two remaining schools I think the Big Ten would have more interest in Missouri than Kansas. It's a larger state with more TV viewers. I don't know how much Missouri adds to the Big Ten since St. Louis and Kansas City TV probably already cover the Big Ten due to neighboring states in the Big Ten (Illinois, Iowa, Nebraska). Can Kansas leave Kansas State behind and jump to the Big Ten? Look at how Kansas reacted to Missouri leaving the Big 12 and then Kansas would be doing the same thing to Kansas State. I think a Big Ten offer would be hard for Missouri to pass up.
Here are the numbers as I understand them based on the current numbers in Forbes and then adding an average $12 million jump per school for the new contract.
Current (per Forbes)
Big Ten - $310 million
Pacific 12 - $303 million
ACC - $293 million
SEC - $270 million
New Contract (add $12 million x14 to the SEC)
SEC - $438 million
Big Ten - $310 million
Pacific 12 - $303 million
ACC - $293 million
Is my math correct? Are these totals accurate? Am I comparing apples to apples? Won't the Big Ten have a new contract too since they added two teams? Will the ACC numbers change when they replace Maryland with Louisville?
@Roggespierre @AllTideUp @JRsec
I'd rate Virginia about as highly as North Carolina. I think the best scenario for the SEC would be to add just those two schools and not take anyone else. That doesn't appear likely though since Virginia is apparently considering the Big 10 and UNC likely won't leave the ACC as long as it is somewhat viable. Georgia Tech wouldn't add much to the SEC but would be much more valuable to the Big 10.
I think Virginia Tech is about the only other school that would be a net plus for the SEC. They might be interested in the SEC if UVA leaves the ACC. If the SEC added Va Tech I doubt any North Carolina school would be quite ready to leave the ACC (and I hope the SEC wouldn't take NC State or Duke without UNC) so the next best school to pair with them would be FSU.
If other ACC schools then leave the ACC for the Big 12 at some point UNC might leave and I'd guess they'd take Duke with them to the Big 10 but the SEC would have a chance for the pair.
I don't see any school other than UNC, UVA, Va Tech and maybe FSU adding enough value to the SEC to cover their share of the profit distribution.
I think you're right. I remember comments from conferences that they don't want to be responsible for killing another conference by taking more than a team or two at a time. I suspect the Big 10 won't take any more ACC teams for another year and then they may grab UVA and another team. I don't think the SEC or Big 12 are able to lure away any of the most desirable teams now and will only take teams after the Big 10 further destabilizes the ACC.
While Cincinnati will never present a challenge to Ohio State, would adding them cause all Ohio carriers to carry the SEC? If that's all that matters then Cincinnati might be a great addition.
Doesn't viewership matter? I'd think higher TV ratings would be more valuable than bigger footprint size. I wish I understood how TV revenue works better.
If it comes down to three North Carolina teams or none, I'd pick none. I don't think three schools from the same state would generate enough new revenue to cover their share of the profit distribution. Current conference schools would make less money because the three new North Carolina schools would be bringing in less per school.
I think Bobby Bowden was right when he preferred the ACC to the SEC because it distinguished FSU from UF. Just as A&M is better off in a different conference than Texas, FSU has been better off in a different conference than Florida.
But now that the ACC is declining FSU isn't so well off. I think they would be better off moving even if it's to the Big 12. The SEC ought to consider inviting FSU. Florida is a big state and FSU draws a lot of interest. I think more people would be watching TV when FSU is playing than almost any other school the SEC might invite, even though FSU doesn't expand the footprint. I'm sure total viewership must be an important factor in these decisions. If UVA joins the Big 10 and then Va Tech decides to move to the SEC, I think FSU would be the second best choice to pair with them (UNC would be the best).
Miami would not be a good fit. There's not much interest in them outside of the Miami-Palm Beach area.
I spent a few years at one of those ACC schools. It appears to me that there's not a lot of interest in NC State outside of their alumni association. UNC is the school most people in North Carolina care about. Duke is a distant second. Not many people care about NC State, ECU and Wake. The only people walking around in NC State gear are their alumni. I don't see why the SEC would want the third best school in the state. If the SEC added Virginia Tech it would essentially get the North Carolina footprint from all surrounding states and the TV market overlap. Va Tech would probably be interested in the SEC if UVA leaves for the Big 10.
Adding three North Carolina schools would not be as profitable as adding other states instead. The increased North Carolina TV revenue would be divided by three new schools. I suspect the revenue per school would decrease in the SEC. If the SEC could get UNC it might be worth letting UNC pick one tag along school - either Duke or NC State - but not both. If the SEC can't get UNC I think they ought to forget North Carolina and look at schools in other states or stick with the current 14 schools.
"Tigers to play Georgia and Florida from the East while Alabama gets Tennessee and Kentucky from that division"
The conference should have never made a schedule that favored one team over another like that. I can understand why LSU fans would be upset. It doesn't seem fair to me.
@John at MrSEC @DanielLaFrankie
Couldn't a school still challenge the $200 million exit fee in court without the risk of paying a huge fee? If they were successful and got the fee reduced to the going rate of about $10 million they'd leave the conference. If they could only get it down to $100 million they'd stay in the Big 12 and not have to pay the exit fee.
Would a major conference actually take a school to court that didn't want to be in their conference? It would be horrible publicity for the conference.
I've also read that 50 million will not hold up in court for the reasons you describe. The courts will say that schools must have the ability to change conferences if they desire and the exit fee can't be prohibitively expensive.
Wouldn't the Big 12 GOR have the same problem in court? It's so expensive that schools can't afford to leave the conference. Wouldn't the courts give the GOR a dollar value and then say that dollar value is excessive?