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All that said, the Giants still have a pretty stacked bullpen, with a top-tier relief arm in Heath Hembree who they are likely to make room for this year. Santiago Casilla would cost significantly more in a trade than RamRam, but he's better in my mind and was a pretty good fill-in closer when Brian Wilson got hurt last year. The Giants are also re-signing Guillermo Mota to be their long-man/SP meltdown/6th inning guy, which he excelled at last year.
Finally, Dan Runzler is also possibly available, although he has a lot of upside to sell low on as a lefty with 4 pitches that can hit 95 regularly. But check his FIP out: it's good. Given that the Gints already have Lopez and Affeldt signed up and trust them far more, Runzler would be traded in the right deal. Arms from the Giants farm carry a brand name, it seems.
So would you guys be interested in Casilla or Runzler? What do you think Detroit would pay for them? Both have significantly more value than RamRam due to years of control and quality of their pure stuff being much better.
A couple other options are Hector Correa and Dan Otero who are AA/AAA guys, but profile as 7th/8th inning guys and are ready for the task now.
3 years ago on Tigers Potential Trade Target: Ramon Ramirez
@garretkc@ChrisHannum I have to agree. I wish the Tigers had gotten in on this, because Sabean has this problem of jumping the gun when he decides he wants something. The guy can draft--can't knock him there--but his trading shows a serious impatience that not only cost us either Ramon Ramirez or Torres here, but Zack Wheeler in the Beltran trade. Awful.
I've turned around on the trade a little bit though; they no longer saw Torres as a starter and thought he needed to go somewhere else to succeed, even though the fans (as well as everybody in the organization) in SF absolutely loved him. After the World Series in 2010 there was a team conference where they asked Andres what he most thankful for and he started crying in front of everybody. How can you not love that? Athletes don't do that!
And after 5 outfielders got hurt last year, I can't blame the Giants for wanting to stack the outfield with options, especially in CF, and allow either Pagan, Huff, Melky, or Schierholtz to regress or get hurt and still be able to field a competitive team/outfield by putting Belt in the mix.
That said, I think that the Mets fleeced the Giants in this trade. Andres is under control for 2 years, and costs 1/2 as much in arb as Pagan in his final year of team control. RamRam was a good reliever and trade chip; guys with consistent sub-3.00 ERAs and 1WAR seasons are pretty good guys to have in the bullpen and Rayburn would have had more to offer to the Giants and their need to have a reasonable back-up for Freddy Sanchez at 2B and a righthanded bat that can play the outfield corners.
@valordesign@orgonedonor@garretkc I'm extremely disappointed with the trade that just happened. I loved Andres, and am furious we gave up RamRam, who would've been a good piece to get a guy like Raburn or Santiago, to get Angel Pagan, who is basically Andres Torres 3 years younger and costs half as much. Also, SF doesn't win the 2010 WS without Torres. Heartbreaking trade. Andres was one of the team's most beloved players, outside of Lincecum, Cain, Posey, Panda.
@garretkc Haha, with you. I hate him only a little more than I respect him.
Ramirez's finest moment as a Giant might have been nailing Shane Victorino and starting a brawl. Eli Whiteside gave a great boxer impression too.
I was raised in Hawaii, but man, I've always hated Shane Victorino. Who would you most like to see Ramirez bean in a blow-out to start a brawl?
Ryan Rayburn and Ramon Santiago are both desirable to the Giants, the question is whether either is considered expendable by the Tigers (which will largely depend on who they sign or trade for to play 2B/SS, I would suppose).
Ramon Ramirez has consistently put up 1.0 bWAR as a reliever, which is pretty good, and of course WAR between relievers and position players are treated on separate value planes, but my feeling is that Ramirez would not be enough for Rayburn (especially b/c he has two more years of arb), maybe enough for Santiago since he's signed to a to year contract (although it would be odd to trade him after just having signed him).
Keppinger is absolutely expendable to the Giants; they want a backup for Freddy Sanchez, but do not want to pay the guy $4m unless he's going to play other positions too. Given how cheap the Giants lineup is outside of Aubrey Huff, if a guy is making the 3rd or 4th most among position players, he should be playing every day for them.
I know little about the Tigers other than watching them in the playoffs and having a soft spot for Detroit teams and any team that also wears Orange and Black. But do you think a swap of Rayburn for Keppinger and Ramon Ramirez is a plausible trade?
It might just be time to set up a conference call!
What do the Giants want:
RHH bats that can either play the outfield or SS/2B. If the guy is in the outfield, power is a must. If a guy costs a bit more than he should, or has some warts, but the Giants like him, that's the sort of player they'd go for.
I have to imagine their ideal target is a guy like Jed Lowrie, Maicer Izturius, or Alberto Callaspo. For all the handwringing by Giants fans, they have a pretty good roster and the lineup is largely set, although they need somebody to backup Freddy Sanchez and be able to play SS, preferably everyday or at least able to platoon with the LHH web-gem creator Brandon Crawford.
Among Tiger's players, Ramon Santiago and Ryan Raburn would probably be the most attractive. Delmon Young is another guy they might like. Except for Delmon Young and his bloated arb salary, the other guys are in all likelihood worth more than Ramirez and would require other players.
But all in all, good article and we'll see what happens!
Big Giants fan here to pass on a few more thoughts having seen the guy throw at least 70 or so of his 95 IP with the Gints.
Ramon Ramirez is about as good as a 7th inning guy as you can find. If you can find somebody better, he's wasted in the 7th inning. He does pretty well in high-pressure situations, and can carry tie games and one-run leads through an inning or more if needed--he's good for 2-5 outs any given time, and is pretty good at getting LHH out too (only .730 or so career OPS).
But he isn't quite as good when the game is on the line. While closers like Wilson and Valverde will let runners get on base and be in a tight jam in the 9th, they usually wiggle out of it and get the save more often than not. Ramirez can still get out of these jams--ESPECIALLY when it was somebody else's fault--but he's more likely to lose some control or give up a run-scoring hit while under the pressure of the game riding on him in the 9th or later than a guy like Wilson or Valverde is.
Pretty much just stating what we all know: he's a surprisingly good relief arm who is a strong option in the 7th and 8th innings, especially for power RHH, but not the guy you want to make your closer unless you really don't have anybody better.
As for trading for him, I think the Giant's really don't mind paying him $2.3m--that's not much money. But they're already spending more on their bullpen than their lineup (which only has two free agents so far, 3 arb-eligibles, and everybody else is at the minimum), and they would like to shift that money away from the bullpen and towards a bat.
The Giants also have every intention of contending in 2012--they are a very good team as is, and if they're trading a member of their 25-man roster, they want somebody back who is going to take his place.
While it's very possible the Giants would deal Ramirez in a 1-for-1, they might need to build a package around him and include an infielder like Keppinger or Fontenot, and (every Giants fan would go crazy if this happened) Andres Torres. They also are generally willing to part with their prospects that don't have their names written into the 2012 or 2013 roster.