APeene
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@pcerik @APeene @modernmom23 If you deny being who you are as a person then you are not being true to yourself. You don't have to chase every whim, just be yourself, love yourself as you are, and who God made you to be. That is what I meant. I hope that clears it up.
Well modernmom, I think for me the sadness for this couple, most specifically for this woman, is that because of religious beliefs & rules made up by men, neither of them have been able to truly be loved & desired for who they are. Josh is not attracted to women. He may love her, and surely their children, but he is not being true to himself at all. And unfortunately, she is the one who suffers for it. And I am sure he suffers for it too. People can do whatever they want, as long as they are not breaking any laws or hurting anyone physically---but I am very sad for both of them.
AP
@DavidStevens @reverend Dennis Teel@ThomasRoss @ono
Reverend, I encourage you to investigate and research into the SCIENCE behind sexuality, specifically homosexuality. I will post an article I wrote, with all of my sources cited, and I would appreciate if you read it and I would love to hear your response. Don't just trust me though, do more research on your own-- with ligitimate medical doctors, psychologists, psychiatrists etc. and then use the brain that God gave you to THINK with, and see if you still believe God wants homosexual people to be condemned as sinners, even "lovingly". I think not. This link below is my article, which I did extensive research on.
http://evolequals.com/2012/09/04/sexual-orientation-is-developed-in-the-womb/
Beyond that-- if you don't wish to read it. I would like to ask you a couple of questions that I have asked several clergy members, and have never recieved a response to-- other than a bunch of scripture, which did not answer the questions at all.
At what age were you when you chose to be heterosexual? How old were you? How did you make your decision? Did you weigh it out: girls are all soft and smell good, boys are have nice muscles and deep voices-- it is a touch choice...
If you believe it to be a choice, that is. If it is NOT a choice, then you are saying that God DID make homosexuals the way he wanted them, and you are questioning and condemning his work.
My next questions are in regards to the 1 in 65,000 people born who are hermaphrodites or intersex. Who do YOU, the Bible, the Church, Society, give THEM permission to fall in love with, marry and perhaps raise a family with? And you may say, that is a rare occurance-- with 7 billion people on this earth, it's not that rare. On top of that, 1 in 426 babies are born with abnormal or unusual sex chromosomes (you will read this in my article), what if they don't meet YOUR expectations of who to love?
People are complicated, God made them that way. Regardless of your interpretation of a few Bible verses, God made his children all the way he wants them to be. There are HUNDREDS of Bible verses that are brushed off and not followed by ANYONE in modern times. Why do you and the Christian church feel the need to hold on tight to this homosexuality is a sin one in particular? Why?
Have a good night. I look forward to hearing back from you.
AP
Thank you so much Rob. I am done talking to SillyMuse, s/he just likes to ramble for her/himself, I guess. I am a Christian because I believe in the teachings and message of Jesus Christ. I do not have to believe and follow the beliefs of others ideas of what Christianity is.
AP
I told you clearly that I don’t believe all of the literal words and stories from the Bible, so I don’t believe a man raising from the dead, or water turning to wine, etc.
If you can call me a fool for believing in science, I can call you a fool for believing the Bible. That does not help anyone. I DO believe in God. There is no way that there is no higher power. The earth and all of the creatures on it, including humans, are incredibly complex. If you study science, specifically biology, at all, you can see it is all an amazing marvel that MUST have some higher power that put it all together.
This is what you wrote:
“You give examples of teachings from Paul on women, to demonstrate literal belief in scripture. Literal belief in scripture would be to believe that Paul actually existed and actually taught those things. You don't have to believe that Timothy is absolutely correct in his teaching in order to believe what you read. That is why you read all of scripture to get to the bottom of current issues. The letter was not written to a modern society, but to an ancient one. A bible believing person like me says , 'Well if God allowed woman leaders, and appointed them himself, then I'm going to listen to God, and not to Paul about woman's roles in the church'. But I'm also not going to sit there and say, it wasn't eve who took the apple first, or that the garden of eden never existed.”
How can you say this, and yet you COMPLETELY believe that homosexuality is a sin?
You are full of bologna, SillyMuse.
You are clearly stating here that you are cherry picking what you WANT to believe and what you don’t, but that others cannot do the same.
Jesus never said a SINGLE WORD about homosexuality. What he did say was to love and serve your fellow man. This is an idea I can get on board with.
If you want me to follow your way of thinking, then I insist you never have sex with your wife again, or any woman. When you can suppress one of your strongest instincts for… oh 10-20 years, then I will consider your rhetoric. Until then-- you have no understanding of the homosexuals which God put on this earth.
Good day.
AP
Silly Muse, an example of something that was upheld in the Bible for many years is the earth being the center of the Universe. Galilieo was sentenced by the Pople to indefinite inprisonment in 1633 for arguing and promoting the theories of Copernicus about the SUN being the center of the Universe and the earth rotating around it. Science, of course, later proved that to be true and the Catholic church cleared Galileo of the heresay charges, many years after his death, so a little late. This is documented in history.
The Bible was written long ago by men. Meanwhile modern science has taught man many things. We need to all live in reality, and adapt to the things we learn. I follow the MESSAGE of Jesus Christ, but I do not follow, nor do I literally believe all that is written in the Bible.
To defend Ono a little further, it is a fact that at the time of the upheaval of slavery abolition, "Christians" rallied in the streets and claimed it to be against God's word. They did the same thing when Women's rights were being faught for. Here are some verses for you:
I Timothy 2: 9-15
"11 A woman[a] should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man;[b] she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15 But women[c] will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety".
Oh no! what about women who cannot bear children? They cannot be saved? What about female teachers? Should they be banned from committing this terrible sin?
SillyMuse-- is is your belief that females teaching IS a sin? You can tell me your "interpretation" of this verse, but I can give you an interpretation of MANY Bible verses which are different than yours. Who is right?
And then there's I Cor 11: " 5 But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head—it is the same as having her head shaved. 6 For if a woman does not cover her head, she might as well have her hair cut off; but if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, then she should cover her head."
So... this is pretty clear in saying women need to keep their heads covered or she should shave her head, one or the other. I don't see this really happening in our modern world. What do you think?
Hey, also SillyMuse, I asked you a week or so ago about when you CHOSE to be hetero, but I haven't heard back. Lets hear it.
AP
Silly Muse, I will paste in a line you wrote at the beginning of this rant above, you said,
"I don't believe clothing restrictions are a concern for the world at large anymore"
So... you get to decide what concerns the world these days? I would certainly say that homosexuality is not a concern for the world as well. Two consenting adults who love each other is no ones concern but their own. It doesn't matter what color their skin is, or what they have between their legs.
That's my response to your long meandering rant.
AP
David, you are an outstanding man! I love EVERYTHING you hare written here and I could not agree more with your philosophy! Awesome!
@SillyMuse @kathleen @Ono @CurtisBeauJackson
SillyMuse, I have not read all of the previous posts, just this one where you are appreciating these people for being nice to you for being a jack...in the box :-) Good one.
So, I am not going to give you any rigamarole about the Bible, it sounds like others have already gone there with you, but as you are saying here in this post above--some people believe the Bible to be flawed, and you DO NOT believe that. That is ok. I would like to leave you with this thought, you don't actually know if it ISN'T flawed. You BELIEVE, but you don't know. You are right when you say God will judge. Yep, he sure will. I am not sure the people who think they are going to get a pat on the back from God are going to enjoy his judgment as much as they think they will though.
I hav no idea what you have talked about in previous posts, but I have a feeling you are "against" homosexuality, since that is what this whole thread is about. I want to ask you the same questions I asked another poster on this thread: When did you choose to be heterosexual? Like, how old were you? 5? 10? 15? Was it before or after puberty? I don't know if you are male or female, but did you make your choice by considering that girls smell nice, and have soft skin and shiny hair? Where as boys have sexy deep voices, and broad muscular shoulders and big hands? That IS indeed a tough choice when you have it to make, isn't it? But... here's the deal, it's NOT a choice. Just like you didn't choose your heterosexuality, gay & lesbians don't choose their homosexuality. If you read up on human sexuality, you will find that I speak the truth. I have done extensive research on the subject myself, as I am a person who likes sex a lot and is very interested in it :-) Isn't everyone?! So, if you become educated you might be surprised what you could learn.
Ok, I will sign off with that. I wish you well.
APeene
Hey Little Thoughts, if you want to become educated, so you can sound intelligent, then you need to read SCIENTIFIC articles and research on the subject of human sexuality. Listen to David Stevens. Homosexuality is no more chosen than heterosexuality. If it were, then could you please share with me about when you chose to be hetero (assuming, of course, that you are)? How old were you? What did you base your choice on? Girls are all soft, they smell good and have shiny hair (it's true, it is from the estrogen! :-)) Boys are have sexy deep voices & have nice broad shoulders? That would be a tough choice to make... if it WERE a choice, but it is NOT. How old were you when you made this choice? 5? 10? 12? Was it before or after puberty? Please do not talk about something that you don't really KNOW about. You do NOT know what it is like to be gay. There is no way thousands of people would make a choice to be belittled, condemned and ostracized by all of the people they love and many they don't even know. THINK. Why would a 15 year old kid do that to themselves? Or someone even younger? It is NOT a choice. Teens, and even CHILDREN are committing suicide because "nice" people like you tell them they are making a choice about something they aren't making a choice about. They are on their knees every night BEGGING God to take away their orientation. But apparently, God made them just the way he wants them to be.
I am begging YOU, become educated. Read and research REAL SCIENCE.
I wish you well.
APeene
Well said Rob! SUPERLIKE! You fought the good fight, you gave it the old college try. Lunatics cannot be reasoned with. Mountains of Love to you!
~AP
@lisa ann Thomas, you hit the nail on the head there with the "fraternal birth order effect" I have read those studies cover to cover and know them well. lisa ann, with her six sons (those poor boys!) is looking at at least one of them, likely one of the younger ones to be homosexual. She will be fortunate if that does occur and they DO NOT commit suicide with what they have heard from their mother all this time. I will say it again, those poor, poor boys!
No, no, no, lisa ann! Sex was for PROCREATION, you said that yourself. So if you have ever had sex for any reason other than procreation--- you are SINNING! Just like you keep telling everyone else they are!
You are so right Thomas. I have read so many accounts of these people while doing my research, it's just awful! Many of them end up committing suicide. I guess lisa ann thinks that is just fine though. She's such a deeply compassionate, Godly woman. Yeah, right!
And lisa ann, if the doctors do a bunch of surgery to make the person into one gender or the other, and that person grows up and is oriented to be attracted to someone of the same gender--- are they a sinner going to hell for loving, marrying and having sex with that person? Because a DOCTOR decided to change them into one gender or the other? NOT GOD.
And that DOES NOT address people who have extra X chromosomes-- they have male and female chromosomes, but may have only female sex characteristics, OR male sex characteristics--- but it doesn't match their chromosomes, so they MAY be attracted to someone who has the same sex characteristics they do. So ,do you or the church get to decide who they can be attracted to, love, marry and have sexual relations with?
What about the people who are born with female external genitalia but internal male sexual organs (these are NOT considered hermaphrodites btw)? What if they are attracted to females? Would you tell them they are damned to hell? ARE they damned to hell? After all, their INTERNAL organs are male....
You DO NOT have sufficient answers to these questions, lisa ann.
I've got news for you lisa ann, I am NOT a homosexual. I am a hetero female who has been married for 20 years and I MASTERBATE!!!! It's not just the homosexuals!
Oh Thomas, you are so right. There are XXXY people and XXXXY people. I am asking a specific question to lisa ann, and she cannot and will not answer it because her Bible and her church who she says has ALL the clear cut answers, does NOT have the answers to these questions. She is unable to answer them because the MEN who wrote the Bible thousands of years ago did not have any scientific information about these types of things. She has no real answers because there ARE no answers in the Bible about this. So she talks in circles. She must be a troll because she is terrorizing me! LOL
@ThomasRoss Thomas! Is this seriously her answer?!! OMG! She is NOT answering the questions I asked AT ALL. As I knew she would not. Ok, signing off.