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@Contrabardus @sefy76 @Batmandrew Oh Snap!
4 months, 2 weeks ago on Why Man of Steel is receiving bad reviews and the public loves this Superman
@sefy76 @jparlee321 My apologies, I was wrong in saying you did not read comics. It would be fairer to say you are not as well versed in them, and therefore dont have a true understanding of the character.
Kirk Alyn and George Reeves were television programs, not source material. So again, you are basing your understanding of the character off of these, and they are not very credible.
Sefy I was talking about Contrabardus and his original point, not this article. I have never commented on CGI of the film, I have been defending certain aspects of the film that you and others have been negatively commenting on, for example your ideas of murder and genocide.
I have admitted to flaws in the film, such as there not being visible damage from battles on the characters, the scene with Jonathan Kent saying "maybe", or how Jonathan Kent dies. So I am in fact unbiased in my points on this film, and am only defending certain merits of the film you find problems with.
I enjoyed the film not because of the CGI, with a 220 million dollar budget id hope the CGI is good. Unlike previous films, I really enjoyed this one. Before MOS, I never had an appreciation for the character. I enjoyed how we finally had an action packed Superman; ill be honest that was the first thing on my checklist with this film. There is nothing wrong with that, we needed to see a little more super powers from the most powerful comic book hero.
In addition, it had heart and hope especially within the character. His acts of heroism before he dons the cape really give us an idea of what this guy is about. I like how he has a reason why he doesnt kill, because he has done it and does not justify doing it, because it was so destructive to his morality.
You hit the nail right on the head. I think honestly the people who should be judging MOS in terms of its truth to the original character, are the ones who have read the comics (source material), and understand all the ways he has been portrayed over the years.
Sefy you have clearly stated you dont read comics, and therefore are basing your understanding of Superman off of the Donner films. Its great if you like the portrayal, and your reasons for liking it are valid, but constantly putting down MOS and others (calling them dark people) isnt going to make your case. The fact is, neither you or I for that matter really should not be saying this movie is or isnt true to the original character, because we dont have an understanding of the source material.
And Sefy if we are talking numbers, this is the most successful superman movie yet. So yeah you're right, numbers dont lie. Dropping from 1 to 3 isnt actually surprising considering the movies it had to compete with (MU, WWZ, etc). Iron Man 3 did so well only because of riding on Avengers success. Look at the numbers for the first 2 Iron Man films, they have never done that good.
@sefy76 @jparlee321 The point of discussion was comparing MOS to the Donner films, which you were arguing against. You have already made several unwarranted statements about why you didnt like MOS, we get it already. I am not going to keep arguing the same thing over with you, its agree to disagree.
My point in regards to what you said to Contrabardus, was that you were singing praises for the Donner film with no criticism, and couldnt stop tearing down MOS. Further, that makes you sound incredibly biased and therefore less credible.
People who are honest can point out the faults in both versions, and break down the movie effectively to determine what worked and didnt work in the film. You on the other hand would rather keep saying the same thing over and over hoping people understand what you mean (we get the "POS" thing by the way, dont need to read it again).
Its great that you finally pointed out some criticisms, but too little too late. You only pointed them out because you were challenged to.
MOS was a success, because of the money it made; despite any reasoning for this you try to throw out (like a lot people saw it once and they made money off them), the truth is there is a large majority of fans of MOS. Not even looking at the money it made, you can speculate the number of fans by comments they made, the gathering at the recent Comic Con who were all cheering on Zach Snyder, the list goes on.
This film did well, because its budget was 225 million, and it made over 600 million, that is a huge success. What MOS suffers from, is the fact there is a huge divide between people who loved it and people who hated, theres really no in between. There are so many fans of so many different portrayals of Superman, its hard to make one that appeals to everyone.
Its fine if you didnt like it, but you cant judge the merit of its success just because you didnt like, or your hypothesis of why it earned a lot of money.
@sefy76 @Contrabardus Sefy you are obviously very biased towards this film due to your undying love of the Donner films. You have absolutely nothing critical to say about the Donner films, and please dont say its because "theres nothing to criticize". MOS does have flaws, but so does the Donner versions. Contrabardus equally criticized MOS just as he did the Reeves films, making his argument far more sound. Im sorry, but nothing you have said holds weight, because you are completely biased and solely focused on tearing down MOS, only because you are so obsessed with the Donner films. If you cant be balanced in your criticisms, or form legitimate arguments, people are going to have a hard time taking your comments seriously.
@trans8010 @ty19c I actually never thought of this, you make a good point. I mean I dont know about the knocking out thing, but you are right it doesnt make sense when Superman is battling Zod or the other Kryptonians for that matter that there isnt even a tear in his suit, or some type of bruising. I guess I never really paid attention to it before but that is a flaw in the movie.
It is not legally murder. If we were to put Superman on trial in a real world setting, I think we ALL KNOW that this case would get thrown out by a jury. Worst case scenario, man slaughter.
Lets say he could have knocked him out (which obviously he cant given how many punches Zod had taken already and was still awake), what then? Its still a HUGE risk to have Zod around. Earth (humans) would have nothing in the world that could hold someone like Zod because they have never dealt with anyone like Zod. Even if they could come up with something, it would take forever to build and I am pretty sure Zod would wake up by then.
Your argument is flawed from every angle here, as leaving Zod alive puts the entire earth at risk. Superman although not wanting to do it, sacrificied his morality to protect earth. Murder has some sort of personal gain or personal attachment to the act, there was nothing personal about what Superman did, he did it for the greater good. Therefore, this WAS NOT MURDER.
4 months, 3 weeks ago on Why Man of Steel is receiving bad reviews and the public loves this Superman
@Rogersjyg I would say that if MOS appealed to everyone, or was as successful as Avengers, they could go ahead with this plan. However there were a lot of people not happy with the fact that Clark did not get more character development (I was ok with it only because it was an origin film), this film relied on visiting Clark's past and a very short timeline in the present, not allowing for a lot more development for the character. Therefore, we need a sequel solely focused on this character and rounding him out as a hero. You cannot do that with a major character like Batman, for the simple reason they HAVE TO focus on him just as much. He is too iconic to not have a solid portrayal in this film, especially considering how much people liked Nolan's Batman, this new one has big shoes to fill. Because of this, one of these characters are not going to be fully developed, and that is just ashame. All they have to do is be patient, take time with the characters and films.
I get that and all, but then its inappropriate to call it a Superman sequel. I mean whether you liked MOS or not, or rather agreed with the take on his origin or not, the character still needs lots of development. It bothers me because first they say they meant to show a naive Superman in MOS and would develop him in future sequels, but how can that be done if they are doing a duel character film with Batman? Even if they had waited til a 3rd sequel to intro Batman (which would give more time for people to reduce their Hype over the Dark Knight Series) woulf have been better. I just think Superman needs more solo time, especially considering how new this adaptation is.
My opinion on DC's plans is that they dont need to rush this to keep up with Marvel. They are trying so hard to get a Justice League film out that quality may be sacrificed.
@trans8010 Ugh, unfortunately I may agree with you on this one. They still have too much work to do on the MOS character without the distraction on introducing Batman. Frig this bugs me!! WHY!!!!! There is soooo much more that needs to be done with Superman, he needs more development and experience first before just throwing the Dark Knight in there. The creators are falling under the pressure of Avengers and trying to speed everything up, Batman is too iconic to just throw into a Superman movie as a minor character. He either needed a reboot or just Christian Bales Batman (I prefer the latter).
The only think I would say on a side note about Iron Man 3, is that it kinda rode the "Avengers Success" wave. I mean look at the numbers compared to its prequels, an Iron Man movie has never done that good. My prediction is that every marvel movie (connected to Avengers) is probably going to do amazing.
I was pretty upset with Iron Man 3, just because it really did not follow the original "extremis" story arc (not at all actually), and ruined a very popular villain. I understand they wanted to show what Tony was capable without the suit, but did they have to do it for most of the film? Even when he was in the suit it didnt work.
I guess I bring this up because a lot of people are in an upheaval about how MOS betrayed everything in the original comics but honestly so did this movie, no one seems to care as much though.
Actually Superman's body aged quite normally in the film and every other portrayal I have seen of him. You are also speaking of Kryptonian embryos as if they were the same as human ones, they arent. These embryos were non living, and had been so for 20000 years and not because of your theory on Superman having a slow aging process. He didnt kill the Kryptonian race, he just simply didnt bring it back, there is a big difference.
Further, why would he bring them back? He just found out about them, why would he have any emotional ties to them? In his mind, he is human through and through, of course he chose saving humans rather than bringing back kryptonians, especially if it meant wiping out the human race.
Krypton did have its chance many times, and destroyed their own race due to negligence. Also, given what Clark had seen by Zod and the others, why would he risk bringing back his race and hoping they would co-exist peacefully with humans? He probably wouldnt use the codex to determine their destiny, as he probably believes in free will like his father.
Therefore, if he grows a bunch of super powered beings on Earth just like him, obviously there are going to be some who are villainous, putting earth in greater danger. He made the logical choice not bringing them back.
Personally, it would be a very boring sequel if we saw Superman become Mr. Scientist and trying to bring back his race, and be realistic, no one wants to see that.
"You just don't believe in the goodness in people, unless there is an ulterior motive or darkness in them"
That is not a general statement there pal. Saying "you" is directly implied at the person, good attempt at a cop out though.
Yup, Genocide is the murder or attempted murder of an entire race. Which involves an action by the person committing it with a premeditated reason for doing so. Zod fits this perfectly; he does not care about the human race, believes his is superior and therefore tries to wipe them all out. That is genocide. Superman destroying the genesis chamber filled with lets face it, non living embryos is not genocide. (non living because they havent developed for 20000 years). Him not creating life is not murdering, do you have any educated comments to make?
"After all, if you go and cheer for murder, what do you care if someone commits genocide against some country"
These are just a couple good examples of you throwing out accusations about people you dont even know, claiming they cheer for murder because they have a different opinion than you. You can dish it out but cant take it eh?
Fact is, your argument about genocide is flawed. Like Gabadabba said below, not creating life is not the same as taking it. There is no way around it, its a fact.
I am actually starting to think you are clinically insane. Umm, the Kryptonian race is fictional, its a movie there drama queen. Also I was speaking of embryos within the context of this movie, being that yes they were embryos, but not like human embryos that actually develop into human beings. These embryos are bread differently and only become something more by way of the codex, dont put words in my mouth.
Therefore, these embryos are really nothing but, you guessed it 20000 year old embryos. Lastly to sum up, you wouldnt know good story telling if it bit you in the a double snakes. A trial for Zod? Oh I would love to see how that would turn out! Do I even need to explain how that would turn out?
Its bad enough that you actually think Superman is genocidal in this movie, but just to make yourself sound even more uncredible, you go further to say if Zod kills everyone, its ok, its "survival of the fittest". Bit of a double standard dont you think? You actually are trying desperately to make an unsuccessful case for Clark being genocidal, but have no problem overlooking the obvious villain who has already killed thousands, borderline genocide.
Seriously how many more comments are we going to recieve from you at the nuthouse?
Lets say for kicks though Clark got rid of Zod and saved the Genesis Chamber. What then? What would you like him to do? Spend his life figuring out how to extract the codex from himself (which there was no tech to do that), grow himself a hell a lot of kids, and have all these super powered beings share (or not share) the Earth with humans?
I mean use your head a little, be realistic. They were 20000 year old embryos, nothing more and were never going to be anything more, unless Zod had his way and grew a bunch of monsters like him hell bent on killing every human.
My point is this, you care about this only to the extent that you think it furthers your ludicrous point about Clark being a genocidal maniac.
Because you are one of the same individuals who keeps throwing around the word "murder" and does not seem to know the definition, so no I have no idea what you or Sefy are talking about when you say genocide as well.
The Kryptonian race (minus Clark, Zod, and the others) perished along with the planet. The Genesis Chamber contained embryos that had been just that for 20000 years (age of the scout ship), they are nothing more than that without being developed by the codex.
Superman made a choice to protect the billions of innocence on Earth rather than let Zod carry out his plan to wipe everyone out (ahem, GENOCIDE) just so he could reboot his race, which oh yeah involved killing Clark to extract the codex. Hmmm I gotta say I probably would have done the same thing in his shoes.
I actually agree with you on the scene where his dad says "maybe" to him not saving the kids. It was a very controversial scene and I am not sure whether the creators simply put it in there to "stir the pot" among audiences.
I think they were trying to show that his father was conflicted while saying that, like he knows Clark did the right thing by saving the kids but at the same time was looking at the bigger picture to Clark's destiny. Unfortunately, this was not shown very clearly in this scene which made it unnecessary. Of course Clark made the right choice in saving those kids, there was no maybe about it.
But that also says something about the character, that he has this undying urge to help people. Despite what his parents say, he chooses to risk revealing himself because he knows he has the power to save people and he should.
I think his earth parents are encouraging him to find his purpose instead of directly guiding him to be a hero in this film. It is Jor-El who encourages him to don the cape and save mankind.