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@Mcost61 @Greg Fenton @MaxwellHowe A second team in Toronto would be interesting 20 years down the line as well, since kids would have that choice when it comes to hockey - the Leafs or the other team - and what each brings to the table.
15 hours, 30 minutes ago on Thursday Mashup: Expansion Talk
@AndrewGalea @Greg Fenton So to you the Toronto Huskies or Toroes or whatever would in the same catagory as the Senators?
16 hours, 26 minutes ago on Thursday Mashup: Expansion Talk
@MaxwellHowe Thats why I find NFL fans in Toronto more interesting.
You're right most of us are Leaf fans or Jay fans or whatever beacuse we were born in or near Toronto. Simple as that. But we don't have an NFL team so often the person choose the team they are a fan of.
I like the Packers, and I choose them because 1) I like the history of the team 2) I like the insanely loyal fan base that actually owns thet eam and 3) Most imortantly, I LOVE how the team is run.
16 hours, 27 minutes ago on Thursday Mashup: Expansion Talk
@Loric76 @Greg Fenton Really? You don't think it'd be easier to either jump on board or hate a team that comes here and does well quickly because of work done in another market, OR because the team just stinks being an expansion team?
I think for different people those situations will create different responces. I'll use the Islanders as an example, I could see some people jumping on right away with Tavares and Strome and dal Colle etc... and being all about that young talent, and others being very turned off and potentially defensive about the Leafs because of that kind of talent.
16 hours, 52 minutes ago on Thursday Mashup: Expansion Talk
I'm curious, if Toronto does get a second team in the next few years what would you reaction to that team be? Drop the Leafs and support the new team? Support both 1 or the other being your "main" team, or whoever is doing better at the time being your "main team"? Or would they be as hated as the Senators?
Now I also want to put two options into the question - if its an expansion team or if its a relocated team - because I think both options will greatly affect the nature of the team and how they do. An expansion team will likely be a bad team for at least the first 5 years or so. However if they get a relocated team it could be a team with some established star players on it and/or a group of young players that are set to become a good core group in the next couple years (lets say, for example, if the Islanders come the Toronto Huskies). Would either situation change your reaction to a second team in Toronto?
17 hours ago on Thursday Mashup: Expansion Talk
@Yan28 @Greg Fenton @phaneufoundlander The joke was, playing off phaneufoundlander's comment about Toronto finalyl getting an NHL team, that a major league team coming inw ill hurt hte minor league team.
The joke being that the Leafs aren't a major league team.
17 hours, 11 minutes ago on Thursday Mashup: Expansion Talk
@phaneufoundlander Thats really going to hurt the Marlies.
17 hours, 45 minutes ago on Thursday Mashup: Expansion Talk
@CanuckUKinToronto @Xxxxxnew that mean the Leafs opening night will come in behind CFL games too?
Thats right, I went there.
1 day, 13 hours ago on Tuesday Mashup: Leafs Links
@vinoa @Greg Fenton my mistake
1 day, 15 hours ago on Tuesday Mashup: Leafs Links
@vinoa @Luke_R remember these teams will have to reach the cap floor. They'll have to take SOME players with higher salaries. They couldn't just take everyones 3rd and 4th liners. A guy like Clarkson might get picked by a team that isn't expecting to be a playoff team right for a few years to help reach the cap floor.
@vinoa @Luke_R I'm pretty sure thats against the rules and/or intention of an expansion draft.
@Xxxxxnew I imagine it'd be the same as always - teams get to protect X number of players, and the new team(s) get to draft players off of the existing ones.
@djamon @Greg Fenton I don't think it has anything to do with no winning cup, IF that is the reason, and I really dunno if it is you'd have the several/many people in the industry who contributed to ranking him 44th, I think it has to do with years of bad hockey and lottery pick finishes.
The argument would be - is he really having a huge effect on the results if those are the results?
I would probably put Kessel a head of Steen as well, but I do love that even the.......idea that other people who know the sport very well MUST agree with the Leaf fans or its trolling.......
2 days, 6 hours ago on Tuesday Mashup: Leafs Links
@Alec Brownscombe @Greg Fenton @vinoa I think when you try to disregard an argument for absolutely no reason I'm probably on to something.
@Alec Brownscombe @Greg Fenton @vinoa defending an article they put together, in part, by talking to people who run and help run teams.
As I said above, or below (I forget) they MAY be looking team wide and not only at the two players on his line, Id on't know.
@CanuckUKinToronto @Greg Fenton I guess a bunch of hocke exc's and broadcasters don't feel the way you do about Kessel or van Riemsdyk etc...
2 days, 7 hours ago on Tuesday Mashup: Leafs Links
@vinoa @Greg Fenton the list isn't who would you build a team around its the top 50 players. that's just how they framed the issue of potential vs current play vs past achivements etc...
2 days, 8 hours ago on Tuesday Mashup: Leafs Links
@vinoa @Greg Fenton And how good was Kobe in the other championships?
And Carter is great individual talent, lead the league in all-star voting for years, put the Raptors on the map. But he has never had the kind of affect on a team that someone like Kobe or LeBron or Wade or Durant does, even though he is just as talented. My guess is given what was said in the magazine, some/a lot of the people they polled for this (some of whom work in hockey) view Kessel the same way. That's why the 6th-7th highest scorer is 44th.
Its funny, if you listen to fans of any team you'll hear how everything is about them. I'm a Kevin Smith fan, and one of the podcasts on his network is about the Devils (or used to be, they don't do it anymore) and all the Devil fans there were 100% convinced that Bettman had it out for the Devils because the Rangers were his darling team.
2 days, 9 hours ago on Tuesday Mashup: Leafs Links
@DeclanK @Greg Fenton @vinoa Ya, he is a guy who seems a little high to me as well.
@vinoa @Greg Fenton No, a player like Crosby or Toews would the Kobe while Kessel woul dbe the Carter, that's why he in the 40's. As to why he is 44 and not 42 or 46......Some recency basis. The results of last year certainly play a factor. Maybe some people they put more value to weight behind him had him lower etc... That I'm not sure.
When I look at these I generally don't put a lot of focus on the specific spot, more where guys on the list, who they are being compared to etc... Say Kessel was 39....is that much better then being 44?
@vinoa @Greg Fenton I don't think they care about get under the of 1 group of fans.
I think his write up indicates that the reason for him being 44th and the 11th winger doesn't have to do with his individual ability, they say he has it all and in the Leafs write up they call one of the top scorers. It seems to have to do his lack of effect on the team. In all sports there are great individual talents who make theplayers around them and their teams better, and the great individual talents who don't. Its the difference between Kobe and Carter. Individually comparable talents, but no one would take Carter over Kobe on their team.
@vinoa @Greg Fenton because its a consensus of lots of different people. I'm sure some of the people they talked too did have Kessel ranked higher, some probably had him lower. But when they look ALL the lists and put them all together........ you get the full list.
As for the Olympic thing - didn't Kessel kinda disappear in the last couple games? And the US didn't win a medal. The Leafs also didn't win a cup. Its not the ONLY reason Doughty was 2nd, I was just saying that without those two big wins this year, maybe he is 3rd or 4th instead of 2nd.
@vinoa @Greg Fenton I'm sure there is some recency basis. In Doughty's write up it says "Best player on the best team at the Olympics, and the best player on the Cup Winning team". My guess is (I might be able to find last years issue) that after making the playoffs, Kessel was ranked higher then 44, and I Believe Phaneuf was on last years too.
And I think it works both ways - are there really 39 players better then Datsyuk?
Seguin at 18 and Rask at 23 still sting. Not to mention Steen at 41
@MaxwellHowe @Greg Fenton could be the difference between a 26-27 year old with a team with a bunch of other good players in their primes, and a 22 year old on a team that is still developing players who hopefully with be among their top players in a couple years - just my guess.
@MaxwellHowe @Greg Fenton Funny you mention that, in their Tavares write up.....
If Tavares hadn't been injuired during the Olympics, he likely would have finished 2nd in NHL scoring with 90+points. That probably would have made him a Hart Trophy finalist for the 2nd straight season. Any success the Islanders have in the next decade will be dependent upon how Tavares can lead them.
2 days, 10 hours ago on Tuesday Mashup: Leafs Links
@Bon Scott was a Leaf fan @Greg Fenton I'm with you.
I should have said - the list is put together by getting info from league executives, broadcasters and observers. They also mention that a few put Toews above Crosby as the top players this year, but not enough to knock Crosby out of the spot he's held for 5 years running now. They also asked the contributors to approach the list with this in mind - if you were starting a franchise today and you could pick 1 player as your corner stone.......
@MaxwellHowe @Greg Fenton The top line certainly seem to come and go with his ups and downs.
I would assume they mean 1) The rest of the team, not just the top line. They've had one of the top scorers for 3 years now but the team just isn't/hasn't been very good. No rallying around him or anything. And/or 2) since there is still that idea out that they need a center to get the most out of him that is a #2 guy, not a #1, and that's just how they are saying it....... I'm not really sure either.
The HOckey News Top 50 players:
1 - Crosby
2 - Doughty
3 - Toews
4 - Stamkos
5 - Kopitar
6 - Getzlaf
7 - Tavares
8 - Bergeron
9 - Giroux
10 - Keith
11 - Weber
12 - Malkin
13 - Subban
14 - Benn
15 - Kane
16 - Ovechkin
17 - Suter
18 - Seguin
19 - Lundqvist
20 - Perry
21 - Quick
22 - McDonagh
23 - Rask
24 - Pietrangelo
25 - Price
26 - Hall
27 - Karlsson
28 - Pavelski
29 - Varlamov
30 - Parise
31 - Backstrom
32 - Hossa
33 - Duchene
34 - Johansen
35 - Ekman-Larsson
36 - O'Reilly
37 - Zetterberg
38 - St.Louis
39 - Krejci
40 - Datsyuk
41 - Steen
42 - Chara
43 - Thornton
44 - Kessel
45 - Hedman
46 - Couture
47 - Seabrook
48 - Jagr
49 - MacKinnon
50 - Sharp
I just got the Hockey News Year Book, thought I'd post the relevant Leaf info
They predict the LEafs will finish 6th in the Atlantic behind, in order, Boston, Tampa (who they predict will be in the final), Montreal, Florida and Detroit. That finish would put them out of the playoffs. They list the changes - such as moving Gunnarsson for Polak, adding Frattin and Komarov as cosmetic and think very little has really changed since last season. They have Bernier as the teams X-Factor, and he'll have to put league leading numbers for them to have a shot at the playoffs.
The top 10 prospects are, in order - Nylander, Gauthier, Finn, Johnson, Brown, Granberg, MacWilliam, McKegg, Leivo and Valiev. They give the entire system a C grade.
In terms of individual talent, Kessel was the highest ranking Leaf on the annual top 50 player list, coming in at #44 overall, he is the 11th best winger (I'll post the entire list in a minute - I have a feeling it will spark some conversation). The comments about Kessel were - He has it all - speed, skill, a blazing shot - but Kessel remains unable to elevate those around him, though he's an underrated playmaker. No other Leaf made the top 50, and unlike some other years they didn't expand it to a top 100.
@Mcost61 @Pent_House Don't they update the PSN later in the day? Like around 3 pm Eastern time or so?
2 days, 15 hours ago on Tuesday Mashup: Leafs Links
@Mcost61 @Greg Fenton @Reether I'm not accusing you of only trying to push my buttons though
UNLESS THATS WHAT YOU"RE DOING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@Mcost61 @Greg Fenton @Reether Thats not what I'm about - if I put a counter opinion up in anyway that isn't a joke, its because its what I believe.
@Mcost61 @Reether Fenton joking around and Murph having no sense of humor is what happened.
@sniperstar as far as I know the infastructures are seperate.
@Cameron19 @Greg Fenton @MaxwellHowe so - Phaneuf I can make excuses for. Staal conflicts with my man-crush so no excuses for him. Thats that par for the course with you - you go to great lengths to justify bad things for the players you like.
What flexibility? He takes away their flexibility. Do you even know what the word means?
2 days, 18 hours ago on Tuesday Mashup: Leafs Links
@Murph2417 @Greg Fenton @Mcost61 someone needs to work on their sense of humor.
@Cameron19 @Greg Fenton @MaxwellHowe Right, Phaneuf's offense has been slipping fo ryears, ust has his worst offense year but not in decline. Staal has 1 bad year and he is in decline.
Now you thinking O'Reilly = franchise center makes sense.
Sure, Staal is mos tlikely to start declining before O'Reilly. But untill that happens he brings what the Leafs need to the table, O'Reilly doesn't.
@Luke_R @Greg Fenton @Axle_Goalie @Cameron19 I'm assuming something similar here.
@Murph2417 @Greg Fenton @Mcost61 You're just saying that cause you know you'll lose ;)
PS4>>>>>>>> then xbone
@Mcost61 @Murph2417 Playstation is better. ;)
@Luke_R @Greg Fenton @Axle_Goalie @Cameron19 Kessel, thought you could make the argument he was playing with Savard when he broke out, who was Johansen playing with? Plus I dont think the Jackts want picks in return.
I honestly can't think of another.
@Luke_R @Greg Fenton @Axle_Goalie @Cameron19 I think you have to look more at trades for 22 year olds coming off of great seasons - I don't think there are many of those.
@Luke_R @Greg Fenton @Axle_Goalie @Cameron19 It would have to be before he is signed, you're right.
I think the question is, is he worth giving up what they'd have to give up? The Jackets were in the playoffs last year, wont' want to take a step back, won't take futures or a collection of supporting players for him.
@Cameron19 @Greg Fenton @MaxwellHowe 1 off year = bein gin the decline huh? well I guess you'd say Phaneuf has been in decline as well?
He is 23 - doesn't change that he isn't a #1 center or the kind of franchise talent the Leafs need and Staal is. Once you get over your man crush, you'll get it.
@Axle_Goalie @Cameron19 @Greg Fenton 6'3, 33 goals in his second year with a questinoable supporting cast....... There is clearly a question mark, he could be a year 1 wonder, or he could be the next Getzlaf.
@Cameron19 @Greg Fenton @MaxwellHowe He might be available, but other then that yo're right - he just isn't anywhere near the level of player that Eric Staal is/can be, and suggesting that either shows your man-crush or your completel ignorance about the players in question.
And being 25 doesn't create more flexibility, on the contrary having to give a player who isn't what you need 6.5 million for 2 years, and then7+ for 5-8 years is a restrictive.
@DeclanK @Cameron19 @MaxwellHowe The Canes don't do that, it doesn't help them. And while it addresses one issue with the Leafs, moving Phaneuf creates another one.
If they move Eric Staal its because they are committing to go with Skinner and Lindholm and Fleury and want to augment that group with more younger players and prospects and get more picks.
@Cameron19 @Greg Fenton @MaxwellHowe One do you'll get over your man crush O'Reilly.
@Cameron19 @Greg Fenton @MaxwellHowe thinking Ryan O'Reilly = Eric Staal is just silly. It shows either a total over valuing of O'Reilly, or a lack of understanding of what Eric Staal can/does bring to a team.
Its like suggesting Toews and Patrick Marleau are equalivant players.