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@LeafsGuru @Hifi75 @Greg Fenton @Cloud09 I dont' think Winnik makes one of their top offensiv e players expendable. 

8 hours, 11 minutes ago on Monday Mashup: Gardiner’s Up Next

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@LeafsGuru @Hifi75 @Greg Fenton @Cloud09 What? Hockey News is a good publication. 

8 hours, 12 minutes ago on Monday Mashup: Gardiner’s Up Next

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@deedrag @Greg Fenton @Jordan29 Maybe 30 million for Stamkos and Tavares combined.

8 hours, 19 minutes ago on Monday Mashup: Gardiner’s Up Next

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@ingy56 @Greg Fenton @sniperstar or, you know, a 6th rounder if you just have to make room. 


Only developing teams who don't "care" if they make the playoffs leave space for prospects with no other plan/option

8 hours, 20 minutes ago on Monday Mashup: Gardiner’s Up Next

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@Bruffins ARe you kidding? Thats a HUGE overpayment by the Leafs.

8 hours, 22 minutes ago on Monday Mashup: Gardiner’s Up Next

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@ingy56 @Greg Fenton @sniperstar We aren't the Oilers or Islanders or Sabers etc... This is a team (and has been since 09 so it should surprise no one) that wants to be competitive and be in the playoffs. 


The problem with "leaving spots" for young players is, its possible no one steps up and claims it. Then your team is left with a hole. As Burke said when he was here (And I doubt its changed) young players get their chance at camp and when injuries happens. If/when someone proves in those times they deserve a spot, they make one for him. But not until then. 

8 hours, 23 minutes ago on Monday Mashup: Gardiner’s Up Next

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@LeafsGuru @Greg Fenton @Hifi75 @Cloud09 There seems to be an "anti-old" player basis in Toronto thats a result of the Ferguson era where the team really was too old and really did lack any young talent. For some reason this seems to make Lupuls age a big negative for people as well. 

8 hours, 25 minutes ago on Monday Mashup: Gardiner’s Up Next

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@sniperstar Just means Ashton, or any other young player will earn their spot, not have it handed to them to see if they can handle it. 

8 hours, 26 minutes ago on Monday Mashup: Gardiner’s Up Next

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@Hifi75 @Greg Fenton @Cloud09 You're wrong about Lupul, and I think your['e mis-reading how much this team, espically the top 2 lines, are going to relay on the cycle. 


This is going to be a quick, rush, break out team. Not a dump, chase, cycle team. 

8 hours, 27 minutes ago on Monday Mashup: Gardiner’s Up Next

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@deedrag @Greg Fenton @LeafsGuru @Hifi75 @Cloud09 might be difficult since Kane isn't ont he team. 

8 hours, 28 minutes ago on Monday Mashup: Gardiner’s Up Next

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@LeafsGuru @Hifi75 @Cloud09 Plus, from all acoutns, he is good in the lockerroom and leader - this team should be quick to dismiss that. 

8 hours, 32 minutes ago on Monday Mashup: Gardiner’s Up Next

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@Hifi75 @Greg Fenton @Cloud09 No more then Kessel and Kadri are different is different. 


He is a rush, "fast break" kinda guy, at least he fits into that system well here and has since he got here. 


The common element of our forwards game seems to be skating. Lupul can keep up and be part of that. The guy who seems to stick out is Clarkson. 

8 hours, 32 minutes ago on Monday Mashup: Gardiner’s Up Next

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@Cloud09 @vinoa If he only steps up in a contract year he isn't a long term answer in that spot though. 

8 hours, 34 minutes ago on Monday Mashup: Gardiner’s Up Next

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@Jordan29 They'll be giving 15 million to Stamkos in 2016, remember to take that into account. 

8 hours, 36 minutes ago on Monday Mashup: Gardiner’s Up Next

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@dlb Mad @Greg Fenton *watchs another point go sailing over your head*

8 hours, 37 minutes ago on Monday Mashup: Gardiner’s Up Next

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@Hifi75 @Cloud09 2n dline scoring. 


Last year Lupul had 22 goals in 69 games. If you add Komarov, Booth and Clarksons last years in the NHL together they only had 23 goals. 

8 hours, 38 minutes ago on Monday Mashup: Gardiner’s Up Next

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@Cloud09 @Jordan29 To be fair, there will ALWAYS be pressure on the Leafs #1 center. 

8 hours, 40 minutes ago on Monday Mashup: Gardiner’s Up Next

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@Cloud09 Is that the assumption?

8 hours, 40 minutes ago on Monday Mashup: Gardiner’s Up Next

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@dlb Mad @vinoa No, we are here because you refusd to accept that Bozak's stats dropped when not playing with Kessel,a nd tried to shift the onus of Bozak's production drop to the players he was playing wiht. 

8 hours, 41 minutes ago on Monday Mashup: Gardiner’s Up Next

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@vinoa @dlb Mad even then, there are a few wingers I'd rather - though he definately has the shortest list...... except maybe Rielly. 


I think Rielly is probably the only player ont he roster who doesn't have better comparisons league wide (or least the fewest). 

8 hours, 42 minutes ago on Monday Mashup: Gardiner’s Up Next

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@dlb Mad @Greg Fenton And the judgement of the vast majority - with stat's to back it up - is that he isn't a #1 center, and his production is inflated by playing with players who are more talented with him. That if/when he is moved to another line with less talented players he wouldn't bring the level of production he currently produces to them, but rather he would play too/produce at their level. 

8 hours, 43 minutes ago on Monday Mashup: Gardiner’s Up Next

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@dlb Mad @Greg Fenton Wow, that point went like 2 miles over your head didn't it?


What I mean, Kadri doesn't fill that void at the #1 spot we have. He may be more offensively talented then Bozak, but the Leafs would still be looking for/in need of a legit, #1 center even if Kadri was playing there. 

8 hours, 45 minutes ago on Monday Mashup: Gardiner’s Up Next

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@Cloud09 @vinoa @Greg Fenton They hav given Kadri limited chances to play there, and it hasn't produced great results yet. 


I don't think that means you don't try it, but I think we should look at that possiblity with causious optimism at this point, not the assumption of it working. 

8 hours, 46 minutes ago on Monday Mashup: Gardiner’s Up Next

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@vinoa @Greg Fenton I think its the nature of debate and argument, espically on line. 


"Negative" comments have to be countered with "positive' ones, people "pick sides" and it becomes hard to find that middle ground which is, in most cases, the truth. 

8 hours, 48 minutes ago on Monday Mashup: Gardiner’s Up Next

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@dlb Mad @vinoa you've seen like 4 years worth of hockey from him - you have enough to judge him by. 

8 hours, 48 minutes ago on Monday Mashup: Gardiner’s Up Next

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@dlb Mad @Greg Fenton maybe, but he hasn't (from what Iv'e seen) said anything untrue or unfair about him yet, and backed up his take on him with stats, kinda proving that when he isn't wit Kessel he not as productive. 

8 hours, 51 minutes ago on Monday Mashup: Gardiner’s Up Next

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@vinoa @Greg Fenton No - which is why I don't direct any venom or hate at him. 


But its silly to pretend he is something he isn't like dlb is doing. 

8 hours, 53 minutes ago on Monday Mashup: Gardiner’s Up Next

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@The_Polish_Cannon @dlb Mad Didn't you know, only players that dlb doesn't like are responsible for their own play. 

8 hours, 56 minutes ago on Monday Mashup: Gardiner’s Up Next

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@vinoa @Greg Fenton @dlb Mad @The_Polish_Cannon No - b ut its when Bozak wasn't playing with Kessel

8 hours, 57 minutes ago on Monday Mashup: Gardiner’s Up Next

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@dlb Mad @Greg Fenton


And unless you can prove Bozak would steal a puck, deke out 9 players and McClement DID wiff........ you can make a fantasy to suit any situatino you want. 


And again, THATS THE POINT - Bozak benefits by playing with guys who are more offensively talented then him, when left to his own devices/talent/skill, he is not as impactful or productive. 


Would you argue that Morrison was the = of Naslund and Bertuzzi in the early 2000's?

8 hours, 58 minutes ago on Monday Mashup: Gardiner’s Up Next

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@BlueSmoke @Bruffins Maybe, but I still we'll be in the same situation - a #1 center who isn't really a #1 center needing an upgrade in that position. 

9 hours, 8 minutes ago on Monday Mashup: Gardiner’s Up Next

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@dlb Mad @The_Polish_Cannon Isn't that his point - he is a guy who is carried by his line mates, and when he was paired wiht talented ones, he didn't produce as well? 

9 hours, 13 minutes ago on Monday Mashup: Gardiner’s Up Next

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@dlb Mad @The_Polish_Cannon How did he doa  couple years ago when Connolly was playing on the top line?

9 hours, 14 minutes ago on Monday Mashup: Gardiner’s Up Next

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@dlb Mad @Yaknowwhat The HARO of the Leafs top line is - Bozak - 47.2, Kessel - 30.3 and van Riemsdyk - 29.0. But their HARDs were (respectively) -61.4, -40.2, -46.4. 


That means, while each increased expected scoring when on the ice, they also increased expected goals against, but a larger degree. 

9 hours, 15 minutes ago on Monday Mashup: Gardiner’s Up Next

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@dlb Mad @Greg Fenton So now we're in a place were +/- = defensive ability? 

9 hours, 15 minutes ago on Monday Mashup: Gardiner’s Up Next

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@loomx @dlb Mad It also creates this weird argument that seperates a player form the rest of the team.


saying Iginla only has good defensive stats because of the team seperates him and negates any possibility that Iginla contributed to the Bruins good defensive play. 

9 hours, 20 minutes ago on Monday Mashup: Gardiner’s Up Next

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@loomx @dlb Mad And shove blame off onto someone/anyone else. 


apparently our best players (top line, top D-man etc....) have no effect what so ever on their offensive and/or defensive out put. 

9 hours, 23 minutes ago on Monday Mashup: Gardiner’s Up Next

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@Yaknowwhat What, how dare you. 


You must be a Habs fan wearing a Leaf Jersey. I KNEW IT!!!!!!!!

9 hours, 24 minutes ago on Monday Mashup: Gardiner’s Up Next

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@Yaknowwhat Thats the thing though, we aren't a 1 line team. Kadri had 20 goals and 50 points last year. Lupul had 22 and 44 in 69 games. Thats not bad from 2/3 of your 2nd line. 

9 hours, 26 minutes ago on Monday Mashup: Gardiner’s Up Next

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@The_Polish_Cannon @Greg Fenton @Loric76 @CanuckUKinToronto Maybe - but compared to the guys you mentioned.....

9 hours, 28 minutes ago on Monday Mashup: Gardiner’s Up Next

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@The_Polish_Cannon @Greg Fenton @Loric76 @CanuckUKinToronto Those guys bring a 2-way game that Kadri don't. 


And O'Reilly had 64 poitns last year and COurture has been on more then a 60 point pace the last 2 - which owuld give him 3 years of 60+ point hockey. Kadri would need 70 points to outscore them. 

10 hours, 2 minutes ago on Monday Mashup: Gardiner’s Up Next

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@Yaknowwhat Thats the thing, they score a lot at times, at others they don't. Its at those times they don't help the team win. 

10 hours, 3 minutes ago on Monday Mashup: Gardiner’s Up Next

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@dlb Mad @Greg Fenton Well its a godo thing you're not an NHL coach. 


IF they got a legit, #1 center (lets say Stamkos, since thats a hot topic right now), you don't play him on the 2nd line. 


And he gets dismissed not because he is a bad player, but because he is playing out of positino and most people wat that position filled properly. 

10 hours, 3 minutes ago on Monday Mashup: Gardiner’s Up Next

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@dlb Mad @Greg Fenton But I don't. I've never said or indicated in any way that deptha nd other lines don't need to be improved and carry their share of the weight. But your top lines production dropping to half almost over night.......isn't acceptable. And wanting your best, most productive player to be a factor in 82 games, and not for these 20, but not these 20......is a very reasonable expectation. 


Now, at this point I know what to expect to expect from Kessel, and I don't expect him to be a factor for all 82 games, I don't expect him to be hot for all 82 games - which brings me back to what I said, they need a #1 center better thenBozak, who can be that guy so when Kessel does go cold the whole line,a nd whol team doesn't follow him. 


Its one of the top lines.....at times. At others it isn't. It needs to be improved along with the rest of the team and igoring that makes no sense. It seems like YOU think its a 1 or the other thing, so you assume I'M saying its one or the other. 


And chances are great, but chances with no goals are meaningless. The could lead the league in chances, but if they are 30th in goals......who cares? 

10 hours, 5 minutes ago on Monday Mashup: Gardiner’s Up Next

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@dlb Mad @Walter_White I getr waht you're saying, but lets not pretend that #1 centers don't exist, or that Bozak is just as good as any center int he league but doesn't have a "Hollywood name" or something. 

10 hours, 13 minutes ago on Monday Mashup: Gardiner’s Up Next

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@Walter_White @dlb Mad Thats one of the biggest weaknesses of having Bozak at the #1 center, when the line stopped working because its best player went cold, it didn't have another guy who was able/capable of stepping up being that catalist that drive the line (and team) forward. 


Thats why I'm not big on getting an O'reilly to replace Bozak, I don't think a player of that level brings that either. What they need a real top level center who can be that driving force behind a team/line. 

10 hours, 14 minutes ago on Monday Mashup: Gardiner’s Up Next

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@The_Polish_Cannon @Greg Fenton @Mind Bomb @Tim Horton Having too many good players is a good problem to have. Having over paid players not living up to their contracts is a bad problem to have. 

10 hours, 17 minutes ago on Monday Mashup: Gardiner’s Up Next

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@The_Polish_Cannon @Greg Fenton @Mind Bomb @Tim Horton Maybe - what if he can't be moved? ANd why can't Kessel or Phaneuf or Lupul or Bozak be moved? What if he is still good and contributes, not just not to the level they are paying him, and they can't afford to just give him away? 


Payin ghim what he is worth is not a problem. Paying more is. 

10 hours, 27 minutes ago on Monday Mashup: Gardiner’s Up Next

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@Loric76 @Greg Fenton @CanuckUKinToronto I said around 5, so lets say 4.75-5.25 million - give or take. 


If you look at some comparables - O'Reilly, Pomenville and Simmonds.......that would seem to be about the middle ground. 

10 hours, 35 minutes ago on Monday Mashup: Gardiner’s Up Next

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@The_Polish_Cannon @Greg Fenton @Mind Bomb @Tim Horton Except if he is wortht hat, you getting value for the money, its money well spent, which isn't a drag on the team.

10 hours, 37 minutes ago on Monday Mashup: Gardiner’s Up Next

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