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@Hmmm And the first time Kadri get hits with this kind of penality people on here will be calling bullshit for a week. 

12 hours, 14 minutes ago on Tuesday Mashup: September!

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@ingy56 @Loric76 @ShotgunCharlie Jokenin? 


12 hours, 46 minutes ago on Tuesday Mashup: September!

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@Mattmark @Greg Fenton Your point is that leaning heavly on your best shooters = predictable = them not being effective (even though, more often then not, those guys are involved in shoot-outs, so not sure what changes......)


Whats more predictable then Kessel being on the Leafs top line? So shouldn't that = teams knowing what to expect = him not being effective? 

12 hours, 53 minutes ago on Tuesday Mashup: September!

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@Mattmark @Greg Fenton @MaxwellHowe But being predictable or not is ont he players. Lupul and co. are successful, probably anyway, because they arne't predictable when they shoot. Just look at how often they take shoot-out goals. 

13 hours, 42 minutes ago on Tuesday Mashup: September!

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@Mattmark @Greg Fenton Sure, and if they do you make a change. 


But what you're suggestingw ould cause the problem already happens. its not like no one knows about Lupul or Bozak, and any preparing the goalies do for hte Leafs already includes those guys. Yet those guys have found a way to score more, in some cases much more, then the other players we have. 


Going by this argument we should put Kessel on the 3rd line and Frattin on the top line because teams will prepare for Kessel more so having Frattin there will screw them up. I mean, for 4-5 years in a row, Kessel, top line RW, eery game. Talk about predictable.......

13 hours, 44 minutes ago on Tuesday Mashup: September!

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@Mattmark @MaxwellHowe Sure they do, but so what? If it made that much of a difference, why haven't they been shut down already? Why do they continue to have success of goalies being able to see the tape = then not being effective?

13 hours, 55 minutes ago on Tuesday Mashup: September!

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@Mattmark @Greg Fenton The number of attempts would indicate that we run those guys out more often then not. They are not successful because no one knows about them. 

13 hours, 57 minutes ago on Tuesday Mashup: September!

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@Mattmark @Greg Fenton No, its ont he shooters to not dot he same move all the time,a nd cosidering that Bozak, Lupul and van Riemsdyk are behind only keep in attempts taking in the last 4 years (at least among the Leaf forwards), they clearly do that. Any team/coach/goalie is going to be prepared for those 3 ANYWAY, but they find a way to score much more often then anyone else. 


Runw ith them until it stops working. 

14 hours, 2 minutes ago on Tuesday Mashup: September!

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@Mattmark @Greg Fenton Except it seems that 3-4 of our forwards are able to score way more often, and they are 2-3-4 in total attempts, its not like they score because people don't see them so they don't know what to expect. 


Just because a goalie is pretty sure he'll be facing Lupul andBozak, doesn't mean he KNOWS how to stop them. I'd runt hose 3 as my top 3 shooters until it stops working. 

14 hours, 5 minutes ago on Tuesday Mashup: September!

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@Mattmark @Greg Fenton Personally, Iw oudl take those things into account when you have teh guys who have similar success - when you're picking between Clarkson and Frattin and Kadri and Booth. 


But when your top 3 guys are 25%+ more likely to score......

14 hours, 9 minutes ago on Tuesday Mashup: September!

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@loomx @Greg Fenton I didn't bother looking at him, I looked at Winnik and he doesn't do much, I figured Santorelli was the same. 


11/26 is 42% - so on the average, the first guy you go to if you're tied after 3. 


14 hours, 13 minutes ago on Tuesday Mashup: September!

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@MaxwellHowe and that Bozak, probably one of the least talented on the list is so high. 


Kadri too, It hink if you just listed those players, you'd assume he'd be int he top 3-4 as well. 

14 hours, 14 minutes ago on Tuesday Mashup: September!

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@Burtonboy Going by that logic you (or anyone here) should never criticize a player for not being that good, since everyone in the NHL is a better player then anyone on here. 

14 hours, 40 minutes ago on Tuesday Mashup: September!

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I saw the new shoot out rules mentioned, decided to look up how some of our top forwards have faired in the shoot-outs the last 4 seasons or so. In order our best (or at least the best among our top forwards) are:


Lupul - 8/13 - 61%

Bozak - 10/17 - 59%

van Riemsdyk - 7/14 - 50%


Clarkson - 2/8 - 25%

Frattin - 1/4 - 25%

Kadri - 3/13 - 23%

Booth - 2/9 - 22%

Kessel - 2/20 - 10%


There is a big drop off from our top 3 to the rest. It looks like Lupul, Bozak and van Riemsdyk should always be our first 3 shooters. 


14 hours, 41 minutes ago on Tuesday Mashup: September!

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@Murph2417 The title is a little miss-leading, its not that Toronto can't sustain a second team, he just making the point/of the opinion that the cost of buying a team, buying an arena and paying off MLSE would be to expensive to any potential owner. That might very well be the case. 1 billion dollars start up money is A LOT of start up money. Sure there is potential here to earn that, and more back, but 1) Its potential not guarenteed and 2) thats a lot of red on the books for a long time, not many people can afford that. 


Now there is the possibility of moving a team here (I've heard the plan is 2 new teams, 2 teams moved to Canada), and if an owner could buy a team for less then the 400 million a brand new one would cost......

15 hours, 59 minutes ago on Tuesday Mashup: September!

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@ShaneCorsi I'm going as well, but its my first one too. 


My guess it there will be lots and lots of people shufling around the locker room and whatever other areas they have open, taking pictures and quickly meeting and shaking hands with the players who will be set up in certain areas. 

16 hours, 7 minutes ago on Tuesday Mashup: September!

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I came across my Hockey New Draft Preview this morning, here was they were saying about Nylander a few weeks before the draft.


Pos: C, 5'11, 169lbs, Shoots R. They had him ranked 6th.


One of the most skilled and dynamic players in the draft class, Nylander was a force of nature at the under-18s, bombing the rival Finns for 4 points in a 10-0 1/4 final drubbing. "Outstanding with the puck" said one scout. "When you go to the game as a scout, you want to pay for the ticket just to see him".

Nylander played against men all year, even suiting up alongside his ex-NHLer father Michael Nylander with Rogle, but that closeness also raised questions. William played for 3 different teams and only really caught fire in Sodertalje while playing with fellow 2014 prospect David Pastrnak (drafted by the Bruins in the 1st round). His father was seen by some in Sweden as a hindrance off the ice, but the level of talent possessed by the son right now has caused scouts to more or less shrug at the minor controversy. "Nylander has enough skill that it won't be an issue", said one evaluator. "Dads are dads. One day the kid won't be 17. He'll be 22 and on his own".


NHL Projection: Dynamic point producer.

2 days, 14 hours ago on Thursday Mashup: Expansion Talk

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@MaxwellHowe sounds more like he is about to take 8 years off because he is depressed about his girlfriend being blown up. 

3 days, 10 hours ago on Thursday Mashup: Expansion Talk

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@deedrag So when they pick 5th and 8th overall over instead of 21, 22 and 25 they get better prospects and things "trend upwards". Shocking. 


It amazes me how quickly most fans are to get attached to and get behind a prospect like Nylander, but many of the same fans balk at the idea of taking 3-5 years to draft 3-5 players with similar, and even better promise/potential 


I've been a long time defender of the Leafs scouting and their development systems, but they've been wrong quite a few times the last couple years as well. So lets not start taking their word as absolute and naming Nylander the best player in the draft just yet. 

3 days, 11 hours ago on Thursday Mashup: Expansion Talk

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@Mcost61 @Greg Fenton @MaxwellHowe A second team in Toronto would be interesting 20 years down the line as well, since kids would have that choice when it comes to hockey - the Leafs or the other team - and what each brings to the table. 

5 days, 12 hours ago on Thursday Mashup: Expansion Talk

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@AndrewGalea @Greg Fenton So to you the Toronto Huskies or Toroes or whatever would in the same catagory as the Senators?

5 days, 13 hours ago on Thursday Mashup: Expansion Talk

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@MaxwellHowe Thats why I find NFL fans in Toronto more interesting. 


You're right most of us are Leaf fans or Jay fans or whatever beacuse we were born in or near Toronto. Simple as that. But we don't have an NFL team so often the person choose the team they are a fan of. 


I like the Packers, and I choose them because 1) I like the history of the team 2) I like the insanely loyal fan base that actually owns thet eam and 3) Most imortantly, I LOVE how the team is run. 

5 days, 13 hours ago on Thursday Mashup: Expansion Talk

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@Loric76 @Greg Fenton Really? You don't think it'd be easier to either jump on board or hate a team that comes here and does well quickly because of work done in another market, OR because the team just stinks being an expansion team? 


I think for different people those situations will create different responces. I'll use the Islanders as an example, I could see some people jumping on right away with Tavares and Strome and dal Colle etc... and being all about that young talent, and others being very turned off and potentially defensive about the Leafs because of that kind of talent. 

5 days, 13 hours ago on Thursday Mashup: Expansion Talk

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I'm curious, if Toronto does get a second team in the next few years what would you reaction to that team be? Drop the Leafs and support the new team? Support both 1 or the other being your "main" team, or whoever is doing better at the time being your "main team"? Or would they be as hated as the Senators? 


Now I also want to put two options into the question - if its an expansion team or if its a relocated team - because I think both options will greatly affect the nature of the team and how they do. An expansion team will likely be a bad team for at least the first 5 years or so. However if they get a relocated team it could be a team with some established star players on it and/or a group of young players that are set to become a good core group in the next couple years (lets say, for example, if the Islanders come the Toronto Huskies). Would either situation change your reaction to a second team in Toronto? 

5 days, 14 hours ago on Thursday Mashup: Expansion Talk

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@Yan28 @Greg Fenton @phaneufoundlander The joke was, playing off phaneufoundlander's comment about Toronto finalyl getting an NHL team, that a major league team coming inw ill hurt hte minor league team. 


The joke being that the Leafs aren't a major league team.

5 days, 14 hours ago on Thursday Mashup: Expansion Talk

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@phaneufoundlander Thats really going to hurt the Marlies. 

5 days, 14 hours ago on Thursday Mashup: Expansion Talk

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@CanuckUKinToronto @Xxxxxnew that mean the Leafs opening night will come in behind CFL games too?


Thats right, I went there. 

6 days, 10 hours ago on Tuesday Mashup: Leafs Links

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@vinoa @Greg Fenton my mistake

6 days, 12 hours ago on Tuesday Mashup: Leafs Links

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@vinoa @Luke_R remember these teams will have to reach the cap floor. They'll have to take SOME players with higher salaries. They couldn't just take everyones 3rd and 4th liners. A guy like Clarkson might get picked by a team that isn't expecting to be a playoff team right for a few years to help reach the cap floor. 

6 days, 12 hours ago on Tuesday Mashup: Leafs Links

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@vinoa @Luke_R I'm pretty sure thats against the rules and/or intention of an expansion draft. 

6 days, 12 hours ago on Tuesday Mashup: Leafs Links

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@Xxxxxnew I imagine it'd be the same as always - teams get to protect X number of players, and the new team(s) get to draft players off of the existing ones. 

6 days, 12 hours ago on Tuesday Mashup: Leafs Links

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@djamon @Greg Fenton  I don't think it has anything to do with no winning cup, IF that is the reason, and I really dunno if it is you'd have the several/many people in the industry who contributed to ranking him 44th, I think it has to do with years of bad hockey and lottery pick finishes.


The argument would be - is he really having a huge effect on the results if those are the results?


I would probably put Kessel a head of Steen as well, but I do love that even the.......idea that other people who know the sport very well MUST agree with the Leaf fans or its trolling.......

1 week ago on Tuesday Mashup: Leafs Links

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@Alec Brownscombe @Greg Fenton @vinoa  I think when you try to disregard an argument for absolutely no reason I'm probably on to something.

1 week ago on Tuesday Mashup: Leafs Links

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@Alec Brownscombe @Greg Fenton @vinoa  defending an article they put together, in part, by talking to people who run and help run teams.


As I said above, or below (I forget) they MAY be looking team wide and not only at the two players on his line, Id on't know.

1 week ago on Tuesday Mashup: Leafs Links

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@CanuckUKinToronto @Greg Fenton  I guess a bunch of hocke exc's and broadcasters don't feel the way you do about Kessel or van Riemsdyk etc...

1 week ago on Tuesday Mashup: Leafs Links

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@vinoa @Greg Fenton  the list isn't who would you build a team around its the top 50 players. that's just how they framed the issue of potential vs current play vs past achivements etc...

1 week ago on Tuesday Mashup: Leafs Links

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@vinoa @Greg Fenton  And how good was Kobe in the other championships?


And Carter is great individual talent, lead the league in all-star voting for years, put the Raptors on the map. But he has never had the kind of affect on a team that someone like Kobe or LeBron or Wade or Durant does, even though he is just as talented. My guess is given what was said in the magazine, some/a lot of the people they polled for this (some of whom work in hockey) view Kessel the same way. That's why the 6th-7th highest scorer is 44th.


Its funny, if you listen to fans of any team you'll hear how everything is about them. I'm a Kevin Smith fan, and one of the podcasts on his network is about the Devils (or used to be, they don't do it anymore) and all the Devil fans there were 100% convinced that Bettman had it out for the Devils because the Rangers were his darling team.

1 week ago on Tuesday Mashup: Leafs Links

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@DeclanK @Greg Fenton @vinoa  Ya, he is a guy who seems a little high to me as well.

1 week ago on Tuesday Mashup: Leafs Links

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@vinoa @Greg Fenton  No, a player like Crosby or Toews would the Kobe while Kessel woul dbe the Carter, that's why he in the 40's. As to why he is 44 and not 42 or 46......Some recency basis. The results of last year certainly play a factor. Maybe some people they put more value to weight behind him had him lower etc... That I'm not sure.


When I look at these I generally don't put a lot of focus on the specific spot, more where guys on the list, who they are being compared to etc... Say Kessel was 39....is that much better then being 44?

1 week ago on Tuesday Mashup: Leafs Links

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@vinoa @Greg Fenton  I don't think they care about get under the of 1 group of fans.


I think his write up indicates that the reason for him being 44th and the 11th winger doesn't have to do with his individual ability, they say he has it all and in the Leafs write up they call one of the top scorers. It seems to have to do his lack of effect on the team. In all sports there are great individual talents who make theplayers around them and their teams better, and the great individual talents who don't. Its the difference between Kobe and Carter. Individually comparable talents, but no one would take Carter over Kobe on their team.

1 week ago on Tuesday Mashup: Leafs Links

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@vinoa @Greg Fenton  because its a consensus of lots of different people. I'm sure some of the people they talked too did have Kessel ranked higher, some probably had him lower. But when they look ALL the lists and put them all together........ you get the full list.


As for the Olympic thing - didn't Kessel kinda disappear in the last couple games? And the US didn't win a medal. The Leafs also didn't win a cup. Its not the ONLY reason Doughty was 2nd, I was just saying that without those two big wins this year, maybe he is 3rd or 4th instead of 2nd.

1 week ago on Tuesday Mashup: Leafs Links

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@vinoa @Greg Fenton  I'm sure there is some recency basis. In Doughty's write up it says "Best player on the best team at the Olympics, and the best player on the Cup Winning team". My guess is (I might be able to find last years issue) that after making the playoffs, Kessel was ranked higher then 44, and I Believe Phaneuf was on last years too.


And I think it works both ways - are there really 39 players better then Datsyuk?

1 week ago on Tuesday Mashup: Leafs Links

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Seguin at 18 and Rask at 23 still sting. Not to mention Steen at 41

1 week ago on Tuesday Mashup: Leafs Links

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@MaxwellHowe @Greg Fenton  could be the difference between a 26-27 year old with a team with a bunch of other good players in their primes, and a 22 year old on a team that is still developing players who hopefully with be among their top players in a couple years - just my guess.

1 week ago on Tuesday Mashup: Leafs Links

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@MaxwellHowe @Greg Fenton  Funny you mention that, in their Tavares write up.....


If Tavares hadn't been injuired during the Olympics, he likely would have finished 2nd in NHL scoring with 90+points. That probably would have made him a Hart Trophy finalist for the 2nd straight season. Any success the Islanders have in the next decade will be dependent upon how Tavares can lead them.

1 week ago on Tuesday Mashup: Leafs Links

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@Bon Scott was a Leaf fan @Greg Fenton  I'm with you.


I should have said - the list is put together by getting info from league executives, broadcasters and observers. They also mention that a few put Toews above Crosby as the top players this year, but not enough to knock Crosby out of the spot he's held for 5 years running now. They also asked the contributors to approach the list with this in mind - if you were starting a franchise today and you could pick 1 player as your corner stone.......

1 week ago on Tuesday Mashup: Leafs Links

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@MaxwellHowe @Greg Fenton  The top line certainly seem to come and go with his ups and downs.


I would assume they mean 1) The rest of the team, not just the top line. They've had one of the top scorers for 3 years now but the team just isn't/hasn't been very good. No rallying around him or anything. And/or 2) since there is still that idea out that they need a center to get the most out of him that is a #2 guy, not a #1, and that's just how they are saying it....... I'm not really sure either.

1 week ago on Tuesday Mashup: Leafs Links

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The HOckey News Top 50 players:


1 - Crosby

2 - Doughty

3 - Toews

4 - Stamkos

5 - Kopitar

6 - Getzlaf

7 - Tavares

8 - Bergeron

9 - Giroux

10 - Keith

11 - Weber

12 - Malkin

13 - Subban

14 - Benn

15 - Kane

16 - Ovechkin

17 - Suter

18 - Seguin

19 - Lundqvist

20 - Perry

21 - Quick

22 - McDonagh

23 - Rask

24 - Pietrangelo

25 - Price

26 - Hall

27 - Karlsson

28 - Pavelski

29 - Varlamov

30 - Parise

31 - Backstrom

32 - Hossa

33 - Duchene

34 - Johansen

35 - Ekman-Larsson

36 - O'Reilly

37 - Zetterberg

38 - St.Louis

39 - Krejci

40 - Datsyuk

41 - Steen

42 - Chara

43 - Thornton

44 - Kessel

45 - Hedman

46 - Couture

47 - Seabrook

48 - Jagr

49 - MacKinnon

50 - Sharp

1 week ago on Tuesday Mashup: Leafs Links

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I just got the Hockey News Year Book, thought I'd post the relevant Leaf info


They predict the LEafs will finish 6th in the Atlantic behind, in order, Boston, Tampa (who they predict will be in the final), Montreal, Florida and Detroit. That finish would put them out of the playoffs. They list the changes - such as moving Gunnarsson for Polak, adding Frattin and Komarov as cosmetic and think very little has really changed since last season. They have Bernier as the teams X-Factor, and he'll have to put league leading numbers for them to have a shot at the playoffs.


The top 10 prospects are, in order - Nylander, Gauthier, Finn, Johnson, Brown, Granberg, MacWilliam, McKegg, Leivo and Valiev. They give the entire system a C grade.


In terms of individual talent, Kessel was the highest ranking Leaf on the annual top 50 player list, coming in at #44 overall, he is the 11th best winger (I'll post the entire list in a minute - I have a feeling it will spark some conversation). The comments about Kessel were - He has it all - speed, skill, a blazing shot - but Kessel remains unable to elevate those around him, though he's an underrated playmaker. No other Leaf made the top 50, and unlike some other years they didn't expand it to a top 100.

1 week ago on Tuesday Mashup: Leafs Links

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@Mcost61 @Pent_House Don't they update the PSN later in the day? Like around 3 pm Eastern time or so? 

1 week ago on Tuesday Mashup: Leafs Links

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