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Why were you enraged to see them on the third line? Having a third line of Andersson, Tatar and Nyquist is like having another second line. How could it possibly be a bad thing to have nine top-six forwards? We've spent years without enough top six talent and now we're overflowing with talent again.
And make no mistake, that is the hired line, more or less. They won't be fourth line grinders because the Wings still have a bunch of fourth liners.
1 year, 9 months ago on Honest Question
@ChrisRuffino " That's wayyyyyy too long for him."
Yeah, four years too long.
1 year, 9 months ago on Free Agent Frenzy Open Post
@JOHNxJOHN Yeah, Holland was quoted a little while back saying they weren't offering him a contract.
1 year, 9 months ago on Seeya Carlo - Colaiacovo Is Gone
@marti783 I think you don't need to wait, because of all of those things, 1, 2 and 5 don't happen, 3 might happen and half of 4 might happen.
@Jay Argentina No, I'm pretty sure only the "special" buyouts allowed last off-season (Redden, Gomez) required a cap hit over $3M. The Wings could use a compliance buyout on Cory Emmerton if they wanted to.
"In Holland we trust. Right? "
No. Not even a little bit if the rumours of him being close to re-signing Cleary are true. Not even one teeny tiny little bit.
@Jordan_Reis We'e got a bonafide top two centres already though and I think that if they get even one good UFA winger then having Pav & Z on separate lines isn't a problem. The reason they've needed to put Pav & Z together is because they haven't had six bonafide top six forwards since 2009. Pav with Abdelkader and Franzen, Z with Tatar and UFA winger would be a pretty formidable top six, plus with Andersson, Nyquist and Brunner as a third line? That would be fantastic. But, if they get Lecavalier as a 2nd line centre or even move him to the wing, that would be great as well.
1 year, 10 months ago on Buyouts Buyouts Buyouts! Come and Get 'Em
"With Filppula almost surely out the door the Wings have a need in the 2 hole."
They don't, really, because Filppula never has been and never will be a real #2 centre and Zetterberg IS, but I still wouldn't mind Vinny in a winged wheel, centring that second line, either allowing Pavel and Hank to skate together or with Hank himself on Vinny's wing.
@Twig Thanks.If I'm Ken Holland I'm keeping two things in my mind at all time with these guys.
1) Everyone made about 60% of their "NHL salary" this year, so Brunner actually made around $1M (depending on whether he hit his bonuses) and Smith around $600K or so.
2) RFAs don't have a lot of bargaining power.
So I think Brunner is going to get a raise, for sure, but my goal would be $2M tops. He had a great start to his year, but we have no idea if his career is going to be more like the first half of the year or the second half of the year, or if it's going to be like the season, where he has long hot streaks followed by long cold streaks.
For me, Smith goes on the Ericsson plan. Ericsson's last contract was 550, 900 and 1.25 for a hit of $900. I wouldn't have it that extreme, but I shoot for three years with a cap hit of $1-1.2M, with him starting around $900k-1M and ending around $1.4-$1.5.
Nyquist and Andersson would be on the Helm/Franzen plan. 2-3 years with a cap hit around 8-900k. Let them prove what they can do in a couple full seasons before giving them anything big, and if they falter you can send them down with a limited cap hit remaining on the books.
Kindl's the wild card. I like Kindl a lot, but assuming they buy out Colaicovo, they already have six defensemen on the books. If they sign Kindl and trade Quincey, that's still six guys and you know they're looking for a top-four (at least) guy to add to that roster, so chances are Kindl and Lashoff probably share the #6 role, so how much do you pay for that? I actually think $1.5M is reasonable because it shows some faith that his improvement this year isn't a fluke, but it's tradeable if he doesn't work out.
That's my two cents...
2 years ago on Howard Resigns to Six Year Deal - That's Good News for the Wings
Whoa, whoa whoa, Brunner gets his salary more than doubled on the basis of a really good less than 1/4 of a season followed by a disappearing act?
Smith gets his doubled for a pretty decent first season in which he played well but definitely showed some rookie mistakes?
Nyquist gets his salary nearly doubled for a pretty good 1/7 of a full season played mostly on the third line?
Kindl gets his salary nearly doubled for a good step forward of a 1/3 of a season?
And for a solid 1/3 of a season when he wasn't expected to even get a sniff of the NHL Joakim Andersson is given a pay cut?
@JOHNxJOHN "We really don't have the pieces to make the moves the Pens did."
Yes we do. Pittsburgh's picks, as of right now, are later in the round that Detroit's picks, and Detroit has many, many overripening prospects in the AHL, the CHL and Europe.
They could absolutely make deals.
2 years ago on Sorry Kenny, Shero is the Best GM in the League These Days
"Holland and Babbles have done everything they can to keep the train on the tracks"
Nah. Holland's done absolutely nothing to improve the team. They've been on a steady downslope for a few years. Holland didn't replace Rafalski. He didn't make any preparations for Lidstrom's departure. He didn't replace Stuart. He hasn't addressed the scoring issues the team has had since Hossa left.
Babcock's got an injury-riddled team that was mediocre when it was healthy deep in the playoff hunt.
@marti783 Yes, he absolutly should've been scratched. He's lost out there without Lidstrom at his side, just like he was lost out there any time he wasn't playing with Lidstrom last year.
2 years, 1 month ago on Oilers vs Red Wings Recap: 3.7.2013
@marti783 I don't blame the Wings for not signing Weber to an offer sheet because it would've been counterproductive. They would've had to have made an offer similar to what Philly did, and everyone knew Nashville was going to match, so not only would they have not gotten Weber, they also would've taken him off the market for, conceivably, the rest of his career. Dickhead Jimmy D can pretend it was because of an unwritten rule, but the real reason they didn't do it is because they knew it wouldn't work, and they were hoping that Weber would end up signing with Nashville for a short term, after which they could make their pitch for him like they did with Suter.
Business isn't about being a gentleman. The "unwritten rule" might be not to sign players to offer sheets, but the WRITTEN rule is that it's allowed. If you don't do something because you're concerned about being a gentleman then you're just going to make yourself look like a fool.
2 years, 7 months ago on Jimmy D Tells It Like It Is
@marti783 It would've been bad business to piss off the Nashville organization? Why, because they would ever consider making a significant deal with a team in their division whom they consider to be a rival? Hell, the restricted free agents it would make the most sense for the Wings to go the offer sheet route with are the ones playing on teams in the Wings' division.What isn't good business is to worry about burning bridges that were never built in the first place.
@thebiglachovsky Are you for real? The worst thing a GM can do is trade a franchise player to a division rival, especially with the possibility that divisional playoffs will be reintroduced when the NHL gets back to realignment.
Analysts always judge trades based on which team got the best player and when you're dealing Nash, whoever gets him is going to be getting the best player, so you automatically lose that trade.
Besides, who was Detroit going to give to Columbus? If it's Filppula then there's a great chance he's gone in a year, and if it's Franzen, then you've got a guy who isn't as good a goal-scorer while playing on Pavel Datsyuk's wing as Nash is while playing with jack squat, PLUS you're giving your rival a world-class scorer to play with one of their two world-class centres.
Nevermind the PR nightmare of giving your best player to a rival that happens to be the team that swept your team the one time in franchise history that your team made the playoffs.
2 years, 9 months ago on From Blue Jackets to Blue Shirts | July
I'll be curious to see how this shows that Ken Holland has lost whatever touch he may have ever had.
@moorecha @marti783"His values just lost us a chance at a top player."
No, his values were negotiating for the trade of a top player. signing him to an offer sheet would've all but guaranteed Detroit didn't get him.
2 years, 9 months ago on There's No Defending Holland - He Blew It With Weber | July
@moorecha @JJfromKansas You're out of your mind if you think there's only a 60/40 change of them matching. They already lost one of their two best players and you think they're going to let the other one walk with nothing in return except "maybe one of these picks will be an OK player in 5-7 years"?
@moorecha @JJfromKansasGreat, so the way to try to get him to play for Detroit is to sign him to an offer that essentially guarantees that he will never play for Detroit?Because Nashville will match it, and then do you think that they'll ever consider trading Weber to the GM who forced their hand? OF COURSE NOT!
@AnthonyC If Poile wasn't going to trade Weber to Detroit (which isn't correct, since it's confirmed there were discussions with Detroit) then why would he not match an offer Detroit made?
So, Holland was negotiating to trade for Weber when Holmgren signed Weber to an offer sheet, thereby all but guaranteeing that Weber is locked in longterm with Nashville and somehow Holland is wrong?
Seriously, anyone who thinks that Holland should've done this is a fucking idiot.
"So instead of taking a chance of actually signing him because he doesn't want Nashville to be able to match, he let another team do exactly that."
Either way the result would be Weber NOT playing for Detroit, so what's fucking wrong with that?
"The issue here is going to be is can they afford the TWENTY SEVEN MILLION dollars in that first year."
Yes, of course they can. Poile has been saying that they're willing to spend to the cap and currently they are THIRTEEN MILLION dollars under the cap. If you think that Nashville isn't going to match this then you're stupid.
@Reddy Really? Not signing Weber to a no-brainer, easy-to-match offer sheet that is going to keep him in Nashville for the next 14 years is somehow choking in your eyes?
Do you really hate Weber so much that you wanted Holland to ensure he never plays for the Wings?
2 years, 9 months ago on Quincey Signed | July
@moorecha In my book anything more than $1.5M is too much for Abdelkader. In fact, I'd argue he's redundant with Tootoo on the roster.
Not terrible, could turn out to be pretty decent. I think that he'l end up settling in all right. He's not likely to ever be a top-pairing guy, but as a second-pairing guy he'll probably be OK.
We really need to find a defensive defenseman though.
"Now we just wait on Abdelkader. Any guesses what he'll receive?"
Too much, probably.
@Reddy I don't think there should be limits at all. If Detroit wants to sign Zetterberg to a 10-year contract or if the Islander want to sign Rick DePietro to a 15-year contract, why shouldn't they be allowed to if both parties agree?
If Zetterberg and Detroit want to stay together for his entire career, why does it matter to you if that career is spread over 3 contracts or 13 contracts?
However, get rid of the way the cap is calculated now and you'll have no more "loophole" contracts, which will also reduce the amount of longterm contracts organically instead of forbidding Ken Holland from doing it because idiots like Holmgren, Gillis and Howson do a shitty job of it.
2 years, 9 months ago on The NHL's Opening Offer Is Insulting to Fans and Players Alike | July
@Jay Argentina OK, but do you have an agreement with your employers that you are allowed a say in the plans for changing of the zone when it comes to the company you work for?
Because the NHLPA does.
The only one I agree with is #6, and if you do that then you'd pretty much eliminate #3 as well since the main reason for longer contracts is to get the cap hit down. Without the "cap hit = average salary" loophole, there'd be little reason for players OR owners/GMs to pursue long-term deals.
@Lauren H Maybe you're unaware, but when you suggest "5-6 for 2-4" that includes you being ok with 6 for 4, right?
And I'm sorry for responding to the COMMENTS YOU POSTED AS THEY WERE POSTED BY YOU. I guess nobody should respond, though if you didn't want discussion then I'm curious why you posted in a public forum.
And fine, I guess I didn't respond to your point about Ovechkin's production, so I will now. If the Caps being more defensive-oriented led to the drop off in production, then what do you expect from a team like the Wings that emphasize defense as much as any other team? Is that the point you were trying to make? That Semin wouldn't be expected to play a better two-way game because the Wings don't care about having all their players play well in both ends of the ice? And that he would be allowed to do nothing but concentrate on scoring goals?
2 years, 9 months ago on Nash, Semin, and Nashsemin | July
@Lauren H Well isn't that a great sign. He's not happy being offered $22M to not have to worry about his job security and not care about playing well for four years, and you think it's a good idea to give him even more to not give a shit.
@NickKehagias Who has Rick Nash had centring him? Nobody, and he's consistently put up at least 30 goals a year for 7 of 9 years, and put up 40 twice. Semin's numbers have dropped for two years in a row since he scored 40.
And while Nash has been a consistent 30-goal man (only one year since his rookie season has been a less-than-30 year), Semin's production has gone down for two straight years. He played 73 games the year he scored 40, and this year he play 77 games and scored 21.
And I'm not defending Franzen at all, my point was that we already have a natural goalscorer who has zero passion and regularly takes games off, why on earth would anyone want to add ANOTHER one?
I love watching people defend Alex Semin as if he's some unknown quantity or as if Datsyuk will instantly make him a 40-goal man, because apparently that's what Datsyuk did centring Franzen? OH YEAH, some guys it doesn't matter who's centring them because they don't give a damn.
@Reddy @magnum9 I never ever ever ever ever listen to Pierre McGuire.
I judge him as having no passion from watching him play and from watching his production go down. He gets paid nearly $7M a year and as a natural goal-scorer he puts in 21 goals last year. He takes many, many games off and disappears in the playoffs. He's visibly got less passion than the Mule does and the only time you see any passion in the Mule now is if you watch clips from 2008 and 2009 on youtube.
@magnum9 Yup, I guess so.
@Reddy @ThroatShot $5M is fair because high calibre player wages are rising? He made $6.7M last year.
@SleepyDrug Do you think that's not a lowball for a guy who made $6.7M last year?
@ThroatShot If you're trying to convince him that he needs to prove himself it's probably best not to offer him a raise over his worst NHL year in terms of goal-scoring.
And the other thing is that he really doesn't need to prove himself, as long as that rumour about some KHL team offering him $30M over three years.
@AndyInBaltimore He may not want to sign a one-year deal, but nobody in their right mind is going to offer him more. He has to prove that he gives a f*ck about playing 82 games of NHL hockey plus the playoffs, and he hasn't done that yet, so to reward him with anything more than one year is ludicrous.
@Lauren H My hope is that they are very accurate and my gut tells me they are very accurate. Semin was supposed to be a sure thing to be snapped up as soon as Parise chose his destination and the fact that he hasn't probably means something about how most teams see his character.
@magnum9 "Why the Wing's would be interested is beyond me."
My assumption would be that it is because he has no heart and no drive and takes lots and lots of days off.
Also, no offense, but you are stupid if you offer him a long term deal. And I mean anything longer than one year. The guy has no passion. He doesnt care. If you give him a 5 year, guaranteed $30M, he has no reason to start caring because he can just sit back and collect fat, fat checks.
@Tnhgeno This. THIS. A thousand times this!
"And if you suck at math, that's 7.5 – 3 = 4"
Um, actually no.
@ThroatShot I'm not sure they will either, but Ryan's not happy, and he's been on the block and numerous sources have said they're looking for a top-six centre. And if you like someone enough you can trade for him and try to extend him. If you give Filppula top-six money and top-six minutes and put faith in him, he'll likely sign.
2 years, 9 months ago on Nash's Trade List Disclosed, Includes Detroit | July
@drw91No, but you can certainly try to take advantage of stupidity.
@Reddy People think Franzen's contract is unmoveable, but I guarantee that there are teams who would love to have him/. If you can get him to meet his "potential" then $4M is not a big cap hit at all, and you know there are teams that think they can get him to hit hit potential.
Hell, based on raw data would you rather have a 30-goal, 59-point scorer for $7.8M or a 29-goal, 56-point scorer for $3.95M (who is never going to need a raise)?
I think that whether it's for Nash, Bobby Ryan or a #1 defenseman, Filppula's most valuable to Detroit as a trade asset. I think that if Detroit doesn't trade him now then we'll all see Filppula walk away next July. He should be a #2 (at worst) centre in the NHL but he's not going to get that chance any time soon in Detroit, and Detroit's options will be to pay too much for him to play the wing -since he's not an elite goal scorer- or watch him sign a Jordan Staal-like contract with a team that will give him a first or second line to centre.
He's a great piece to be used in trade for Bobby Ryan or Rick Nash (Ryan would be my preference), so that we can have an elite goal scorer to play with Datsyuk or Zetterberg (with Franzen playing on the wing with whichever centre doesn't play with Ryan).
I would also look into including him in a deal for Yandle, but from what I've read Phoenix isn't shopping Yandle but only listening to offers, and I don't know that Detroit has enough to wow Phoenix into make a deal. I think the better bet would be to offer up some picks or something for Bouwmeester for the relatively short term.
I do like Filppula, but the last time he really did anything significant in the playoffs was four years ago. He's good on the ice, but he's much more valuable as trade bait.
"but if it were to take Filppula plus Nyquist + a draft pick,"
I say Cleary, Emmerton or Mursak, Abdelkader's rights, McCollum or Pearce and Holmstrom (just to show Howson how much you respect him), then work from there.
Howson is as useless as tits on a nun, therefore whoever gets Nash is going to fleece him on the deal, so Kenny should be the one to do it.
I'm not sure I would expect anything to happen while the prospect camp in Traverse City is ongoing...
2 years, 9 months ago on Summer of 'Meh' So Far | July
@Reddy "It's an idea on a blog, it's not on paper at a GM meeting right now."
Well gee, I'm sorry. I thought that, being an idea on the blog, the point was to spark conversation. I apologize, next time I will ignore the fucking fact that there is a "comment" box at the bottom and just talk to myself about the blog rather than providing feedback in the forum that has been provided by the blog.
I wonder why they bother to post if nobody should be talking about it, unless it is to agree.
2 years, 9 months ago on Wings Should Offer Weber A Contract Like Noone's Ever Seen: $12M+ | July
@Reddy @gfa5eat1 They also traded relatively late in the season for a goal scorer and they started to come together right as the season ended. So yes, plenty of offense.
@gfa5eat1 Well yeah, because that's what I said, right? That we don't need any more defenseman and all we need is scoring?
Why are you arguing against something I didn't say?
The answer, IMO, is not blowing $12M on one guy for one year, as well as giving up four first rounders.