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@Payton my point was simply if he picked up one more ypc, he'd be on par with the better backs in the league. No he won't have dazzling numbers still because he's only averaging 15 touches per game. But his average is one of the reasons why ppl are saying he isn't producing. Anyhow, this has been fun, but I see when you go to low quality websites you get sack riders who don't know shit about football. You all enjoy each other, I'm gonna read articles from people that actually know the game. Oh and Nate, for future reference. Don't bring up your little dumb ass C average awards up in a debate to flex haha
1 year ago on Eyes in the Backfield: Texans
@Hobbes15 @clholland83 still doesn't make him the best defenseman since LT
1 tckl 1 sack and a blocked fg best ever
Are you sure the top 5 rushers don't average between 4.1 and 4.7 yards per carry? I'm talking about the backs with the most yards. You wanna check that out and get back to me?
Downright awful huh? So he's 1 yd away from being amongst the highest in the NFL. What player? Trent is on a post lockout rookie contract. He counts about $4M against the cap and if he doesn't produce, he'll either be gone like Nate believes or he'll get a smaller contract.
Hahaha you bring up your lil weak books and awards on an online commentary. Calm down chief we're just debating. Furthermore you bring it up and then say football isn't hard to learn because a lot of pal do it. Oh ok so it's easy to become a doctor, it's easy to bench press 400 pounds. But you professionally cover football huh? I call bs. Have you even seen a playbook? So Chad Johnson had trouble learning the NE playbook because he just wasn't applying himself then huh? It's so easy he should've been able to do it right? Get out of here with that.
OK the fact that you just sat here and said it's not that hard to learn an offense throws all your football credibility out the window. You have reinforced the fact that you don't know football. At leat not past the pee wee level. So you know the difference between a trey rt, 14 boom, 43Z and a trey rt 14 boom V3 43Z? It's not that hard right? They look like the same smash thru the 6 hole right? Yea you suck
You're absolutely pathetic in your attempts to be right. The article you just posted said the best defensive year by a DE. You such so bad you don't even know when you're contradicting yourself. Like I said no one is saying he's the best all around defensive player except you and maybe a few others like you that don't know dick about the game of football. So let's get this straight. The best you can do is produce one article that suggests he was a better DE in one year that Reggie White in one year then you give me a chart tallying defeats and THAT makes him the best player since Taylor?? No one you're just an armchair blogger an not an actual analyst. Your football acumen sucks tremendously. I admit I mi spoke on the PD, I meant to put it suggests he drops back more because no I don't happen to watch Houston games unless they are shown, but don't play yourself. You don't sit and watch film. Your articles and your comments prove that. There are better 24 game spans that are better than j's in regards to tackles, int, ff, fr, and sacks. That's why anyone that knows what they're talking about wouldn't group a DE with a LB, CB, or S. Him being the best since Taylor is your opinion the rest of the world isn't riding his jock strap as hard and would beg to differ.
OK your example just as ridiculous as ur argument. If Luck came and threw 60 TO (or like when Cam came out and has the most sensational Rookie season we had ever seen) no one but NO ONE would say (or did say) we're watching the greatest player in our lifetime. You can say he's put together the greatest season we've ever seen or something like that, but when you talk about the greatest in a lifetime and include all defensemen, you MUST include volume stats. You talk about the greatest since LT in '84 but he only had 11.5 sacks that year. You're calling Watt the greatest in terms of his peak but his peak right now is a 20.5 sack season. Jared Allen had 22 just in 2011. Yes Watt drops back more than other DE and had 16 PD, but Allen had and INT, a safety and 4 FF (tied with Watt in his "peak") year. And don't lie on the real analysts, NO ONE says he's the greatest defensive player in a lifetime. That all you and your camp. I'm glad you're not spreading this nonsense on a site like ESPN or something like that. You would get crucified.
OK so you count learning 2 different offenses in less than a year as him knowing the offense? OK that's nuts. 2nd, he has also shown the when he has good blocking he can run for great gains and pick up even more when combined with his ability to break tackles. If 71.4% of the time, the hole is blown up when he gets there, you cannot simply chalk that up to "he's just not hitting the hole fast enough. DB is and he clearly showed the same struggles when he was being ran out of the power formations. Now Brown is mostly being ran at a spread out defense so he's doing a lot better, meanwhile Trent is being ran at an 8 man box and he's improved his you to 3.0 from the 2.6 it was. I won't knock you for your opinion that he will flame out and be gone, but that's also what everyone was saying about Brown too.
As far as the trade, if the Colts do as well as we believe (the fans, clearly not the bloggers), they will have another late 1st round pick. The projection is that the next RB class is weak so there's no fix there. If anything they could've used it for a defensive player or OL but with Vick being down and brown already showing lack of ability as the feature back, they made a trade for a young, inexpensive back with the ability to be great. I can point you to articles as well that suggest the running struggles aren't all on Trent. The point I'm making is that it's not just him. I look forward to him proving you wrong.
@Nate Dunlevy @clholland83 Nate you have the stones to say some dumb stuff like "weak sauce comment" when you call a player the greatest defensive player in a life time after 2 and a half seasons. I'm glad you're a blogger and not a real analyst because you obviously don't know much about the game of football. You are clearly one of those that looks just at numbers and tries to write something that makes sense regarding them. How is post season play NOT more important than regular season? That's where the championship is won and greatness is earned. Ray Lewis, Warren Sapp, Michael Strahan, and Dwight Freeney (just to name a few) and you call JJ Watt the greatest?? You, sir have lost all credibility. You're comparing a DE to a LB and you want to puff your chest out and say "bring it." You officially don't know football when you're gonna do some dumb stuff like that.
What makes him better than Ray Lewis? Freeney had 11+ in each of his first 4 years in the season. We all know a team wins but a great player is one that is the difference maker in those wins. We all know great players puts the team on their back in crunch time that wins championships. I was simply saying where's JJ's? Don't go crying about the team when you're the one handing out an individual title based on absolutely nothing. And you got the onions to tell me to do research. Since you need help let me give you an example of what I mean. The Colts had the worst run defense in the NFL the season they won the superbowl, but what was the difference in the playoffs...Bob Sanders. Ray Lewis has that effect, Strahan and Sapp have that effect. Where has Watt had that? Try actually supporting your claim before you decide to tell someone to do research.
And by Shaun I meant Schaub
With the way Shaun has been playing, I think the Texas want to see what Keenum can do. I think it's a bad move as well but it's no worse than starting Schaub. Seattle signed Flynn to a large contract then he sat behind a rookie so Houston going all in isn't justification to keep him as a starter when he's played so poorly.
I'm sure you understand that 6 weeks during the season is absolutely not the same as 6 weeks in training camp. If u know anything about the NFL whatsoever, you know that learning a play book of over 200 concepts in the passing game alone is best done in the offseason. During the season you're spending Each week learning and preparing for the next opponent, not learning the play book so saying something like Treat has had time to learn the play book in 6 weeks DURING the season is something I'd expect from someone that doesn't know the NFL, not you.
Wow that's quick. 2 and a half years makes JR a superstar. Doing it over a career makes you the best in a lifetime. JO may get there but he isn't there yet. How many years has he anchored a super bowl winning defense? 0? Yeah that sounds about right. How many playoff games has his defense won? I think you can slow down on the excessive glorification until his greatness accounts for more than just 2 division titles because that's not how greatness is measured in the NFL.
@Nate Dunlevy @Payton "2 INT and 4PD at that position...It's more an indication of luck than real skill." So you're saying at that same position Dwight Freeney was just unlucky??? That's the most absurd argument you can make. I'm not saying those are good by any means, but Freeney had 0 of both. And the best you can say is he's unlucky? 10 PD is the most by any linebacker last year and since they primarily cover RB or TE, which are not 1st options in the pass most time, 6 is not a whole lot more. And actually NFL.com has him with 6 PD instead of 4. The leading LB had 5 INT, is 3 more lucky? And like I said before sacks, which apparently you do put stock in, is also a tackle so by your same logic, it's ridiculous to tally up sacks as well because you get credit for assisting that as well. That's y an assist is only 0.5 of a sack or a tackle. A pile jumper could get credited for a sack just like a tackle, but yet you're willing to use one over the other in grading performance?? Now that is ridiculous. Now a back to the context in which we are discussing this, you have gone on record to say that Freeney outplayed Walden last year even though the numbers contradict that statement. For $3.25M and the option to cut bait after 2 years, Walden is good to bring in for, if nothing else, depth and if he doesn't work, he's $16M cheaper than freeney was last year.
1 year, 8 months ago on Return of the #CATweetbag
@Nate Dunlevy @Payton @clholland83 Ok they add value to the the stat of tackle, but you just decreased the value of the INT and PD to make your point and you say MY premise if flawed?? You know what and INT is, you know what a defended pass is and you wrote those stats off as "random." You say PFF doesn't use tackles, but a sack is a tackle and is just as subjective. When 4 down linemen meet at the qb, who gets the sack/tackle? You say it uses hurries, which is also subjective. If freeney is 2 inches from the qb and he passes the ball, how do you know if it was hurried vs the coincidence of timing and location? How can you explain using 2 subjective stat over the other and then saying one is better than the other, when one IS the EXACT stat you're overlooking? Nate, your point about adding "value to the stat by measuring distance" further discounts the TFL category. You and Payton are effectively contradicting each other with your arguments and MY premise is flawed? How many disruptive plays were Walden involved in where he didn't record any meaningful stat? I'm sure that doesn't go into his PFF ratings? "We don't know the quality" of Walden's tackles is just a silly argument. Every tackle is important on every play because it prevents a touchdown. How many clutch tackles/sacks did freeney have for $16M last year? Bottom line, this deal could end up being a 2 year 8M hole filler unless Walden EARNED his way to 4 years.
What's your point Payton? QB hurries/hit, and plays are disrupted by a player are subjective as well and those are not mentioned half as much as tackles? The bottom line is tackles are a stat that are monitored to judge a player's performance.
How can you say not to use tackes as a stat for a LB when that's primarily their job. When you read about a linebacker's performance, I'm pretty sure they always mention how many tackles that player had. I'm not buying that "it's not a real stat" when it's tracked play by play. You can't then write off his INT and PD as random and you can't discount his stats compared to freeney just because the sheer numbers disproves what you've said across two separate blogs that Freeney outplayed Walden last year. The fact of the matter is one leg or not, that's just not true. Yes Freeney was "disruptive" a lot and there is no stat for that, but they weren't paying him 16 mil to just be disruptive, they were paying him to produce sacks and play the OLB position in the 3-4 scheme. Freeney failed to produce in both aspects and do you honestly think freeney would play for an over 10 mil paycut?? The fact is the Colts absolutely couldn't sign freeney for less than Walden. And Walden is the younger, cheaper player. Freeney is just not an OLB and he had to be replaced. The Colts are phasing out the 4-3 package so a 4-3 DE that would cost almost $20M (and it is absurd to believe he would play for less than the $3.25M that Walden is playing for) had to be replaced. Maybe there were better options, but who? And maybe those people wouldn't have played for the contract Walden was willing to. I don't think there were a lot of great 3-4 OLB talent that would have been cap friendly. And since we're comparing a one legged freeney to Walden, Freeney sucked last year and Mathis did just fine so that argument is null. Walden is better in space and converage than freeney and probably won't be as much of a liability in run defense (which freeney is horrible at due to no discipline). Bottom line, Indy would not be better off with Freeney because he can't play the position and he wouldn't do it for the same money.
I disagree about the Safety position, Landry add a good run stopping safety a la Bob Sanders without as much of the boom. Bethea had what I thought was his worse year as a Colts, but otherwise has been very Solid at his position in both pass and run. The Colts could use depth at the CB position and some run stuffers for the 3-4 scheme. As for the Walden/Freeney comment about a potentially elite pass rusher, 93 has dropped in production the past 3 or so seasons and would cost too much to gamble for "potentially elite." Especially when he's not getting paid potential money. Walden had more tackles than freeney (46-12), more int, and more passes defended. I don't know about you, but if I had to make a decision for next year based on those kind of numbers, I'd taked Walden's contrast/productivity. And as we have seen over and over again, if he's any kind of productive as a pass rusher opposite Mathis then Mathis will explode.