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 @JackMurphyRGR  @majrod Neither the CIA nor the State department needed to be running guns for the gun running scenario to have happened.  Only AQ or MB (or both) needed to be running guns.   Under this theory, the only role of the White House / Roge Ops would be to prevent anyone (say Amb. Stevens or other CIA) from getting in the way.     The hit on the embassy and the annex would serve this purpose.    By playing dumb, POTUS, VPOTUS, and SecDef can all claim innocence.

1 year, 8 months ago on Benghazi: The Definitive Report

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 @oldSquid  @Tango9 Navy vs. Marines, except during the Army-Navy game of course!     Its a great team.    Worked with Rangers and SF also (hell, went to their schools).   Good folks too.   We have great people in the ranks.  I worry about what happens above them.

1 year, 8 months ago on Benghazi: The Definitive Report

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 @oldSquid  @Tango9 Hey Old Squid:  A couple years ago a cop pulled me over (under the pretext of speeding).   First thing he asked me was what the Marine sticker on my pickup truck meant.   I told him "My Ass Rides in Navy Equipment".    He introduced himself as a former Squid, shook my hand, and said "Have a great night, brother!".  Just remember your paycheck said "Department of the Navy"!    Ok...Ok.

 

Just thought you'd like to know.

1 year, 8 months ago on Benghazi: The Definitive Report

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 @Tango9   Note that I was not positing a theory.  The list is for what we believe to be facts.    The theories are up to anyone who cares to develop a hypothesis (scenario), and then see if that hypothesis is falsifiable according to the evidence.   Simple science.   Using this method, we can pare down the possibilities by ruling out the falsifiable hypotheses.  

 

Foil hats are those who already think they know, but who are not willing to test their hypothesis against the facts.

1 year, 8 months ago on Benghazi: The Definitive Report

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 @oldSquid Here is what I think is now OPEN knowledge.  Anyone is free to challenge these if they have evidence (not opinions) to the contrary: 

(1) CIA had a legitimate operation to find those 20,000 AA missiles Khadaffi had {Jack Murphy},

(2) Some landed in the Sinai {acknowledged by Israeli intelligence},

(3) Some landed in Mali {all over the news now},

(4) Some missiles  WERE shipped through Turkey on Sep 12 - day after attack {multiple sources},

(4) Brennan was running rogue ops without Patraeus knowing {Jack Murphy},

(5) Amb.  Stevens met with Turkish Ambassador Sep 11 {source?}

(5) POTUS and SecState disappeared from radar that night {congressional testimony}

(6) The Marine FAST team and possibly other QRF(?) were told to stand down {original reporting}

(7) There were more than just SA7 Manpads in those shipments, not that this is actually relevant to the case.

 

Anyone care to add to it?   Refute it?   Just looking for facts here.

 

1 year, 8 months ago on Benghazi: The Definitive Report

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 @oldSquid  @RVN SF VET  @majrod  @RedWanderer The theory I posited was that Amb. Stevens happened upon a rogue op (run out of the White House - possibly by Brennen) to funnel weapons (SA7 AA missiles formerly belonging to Khadaffi) to AQ Syria through Turkey.    After all, we had a formal CIA op to look for the things.    So, if the Rogue op was to allow those weapons to actually get to AQ Syria, and if Amb. Stevens was on to it, he had to be eliminated before he could do something to stop it or make it public.     Negotiate a rescue?   Possible, but not my theory.

1 year, 8 months ago on Benghazi: The Definitive Report

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 @RVN SF VET  @majrod  @RedWanderer >> NEVER underestimate alternative agendas of those in power.   Whether Americans approve of  Obama or not, we have a hard time believing that he is actually working against traditional American values.   Its never happened before. Remember that, prior to the Russian revolution, the Bolsheviks ordered party members to join the Czarist Army to fight WWI.  Their mission was to undermine the army (via morale and rebellion) to purposely cause Russia (Czar) to lose the war to cause instability, and to arm the Bolsheviks in turn.   Remember, Obama promised to "fundamentally transform this nation" (Oct 30 2008).

1 year, 8 months ago on Benghazi: The Definitive Report

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 @RVN SF VET  @majrod  @RedWanderer Does anyone here allow for the possibility that this was an intentional hit on Amb. Stevens, and that the White House was complicit, and further that Obama's and Clinton's disappearance from the scene was intentional?     As much as I disrespect Obama's capabilities as a leader, I cannot believe this is a case of incompetence.  His neglect of the situation has to be intentional.    To what end is he actually dedicated?    It is a terrible mistake to view him through the paradigm of a typical American president.

1 year, 8 months ago on Benghazi: The Definitive Report

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 @Jaycel Adkins  @Txazz  @AUNITEDPEOPLE  @RedWanderer How about :  "a person's beliefs dictate their religion and actions".        Beliefs pre-exist internalization of religion dogma.    Of course, with an AK-47 pointed at your head, you could outwardly profess a religion, but that does not mean you accept it internally.    If someone converted without threat of violence, then their beliefs predate their acceptance of that religion's dogma.

1 year, 8 months ago on Benghazi: The Definitive Report

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 @ATB  @recon00 Its not so much a weak president as it is a president with intent to destroy.    The Russian angle is interesting.   Clearly we ignored Putin's advice.   Can't blame him if he's laughing at us.

1 year, 8 months ago on Benghazi: The Definitive Report

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 @ATB  @recon00 Glad to see its not just me that is suspicious.  It seems almost too obvious.   What did we miss?

1 year, 8 months ago on Benghazi: The Definitive Report

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 @ATB Last weekend I posited the theory that the Ambassador may have been onto a Brennan rogue operation to funnel weapons (particularly SA7s) to MB and AQ in Syria.   The actual movement of those weapons through Turkey is apparently not in dispute. This makes it likely that the hit on the Ambassador, which was very well timed, was intentional.    It is very stinky.     While Jack thinks this is not likely, it certainly warrants some investigation.

1 year, 8 months ago on Benghazi: The Definitive Report

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 @RedWanderer Agreed, unless he (Obama) IS the rogue operation...   Can't wait to see the replies now!

1 year, 8 months ago on Benghazi: The Definitive Report

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 @RedWanderer  @recon00 OK, Red, you've got me there.   "Exactly" is not the best word.   But, is it not appropriate to say that Obama would have been informed of the attack within minutes?   Whether he chose to address it (which can mean a number of things) or to not address it (which can mean a number of things), the responsibility still goes to Obama.    Somebody, either Obama or his delegate, made the decision to not help, and perhaps, to even stand down the help which was preparing to go.  We still do not know how it came to be that nothing happened to help, in spite of the AC130 and video feeds we keep hearing about (assuming its true).   Enjoy!

 

Still, it is possible that Obama had all possible details at his disposal.

 

 

 

1 year, 8 months ago on Benghazi: The Definitive Report

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 @theAtrium And your hypothesis might be correct.   I hope it is.   Not sure we will ever know it all.    If this were an intentional conspiracy to  conceal the trafficking of SA7's, there are only 2 people who had to have known, one being POTUS, the other being the go-between.  That would be very difficult to prove, even though abduction might lead us to that conclusion.   It's all very unfortunate....

1 year, 8 months ago on Benghazi: The Definitive Report

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 @theAtrium OK  I look forward to seeing the record of White House / State / CIA Communications in the appendix at the end.  That should be the evidence that settles it.  Thanks for the tip.

1 year, 8 months ago on Benghazi: The Definitive Report

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 @theAtrium Please provide the evidence that Bengazi was mere incompetence. Or, as you say, sit down and shut up.    We merely have speculation on either account, at this point.

1 year, 8 months ago on Benghazi: The Definitive Report

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 @theAtrium Intelligent design is an interesting concept.  Unfortunately, just like the theory of evolution and primordial soup, it is not possible to do a hypothesis test on either primordial soup or intelligent design, since both are unknowable.   

 

Our theories on Bengazi are, however, knowable, but the information may not be obtainable.   There is a truth, but it may be so cloaked that we will never know

 

Who were those guys on the grassy knoll?.

 

Your theory may very well be correct, and you are in a position to know a hell of a lot more than I  am.  However,  this administration, and particularly Obama, is an expert on creating red herrings. 

 

Either way, if we are truly looking for the truth, then we are on the same side.   I only wish it were as simple as mere "incompetence".   I could at least take comfort in that, relative to knowing that my tax money is funding Al Qaeda. 

1 year, 8 months ago on Benghazi: The Definitive Report

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 @JackMurphyRGR  @theAtrium  @Snap Conjecture?  Sure.  All science begins with conjecture.  It's call the statement of a hypothesis.   The hypothesis architected from the evidence (what happened).  The purpose of science is to understand WHY it happened.      The scenario proposed by Jack Murphy in his book is one possible hypothesis based in incompetence of Obama.  I offered an alternative hypothesis - that the result in Bengazi was not the result of incompetence, but rather, as a means of obfuscating what really happened.

 

The problem is that EVERYONE is operating without complete information, so we must conjecture (develop hypotheses) and figure out which one fits.   That is science.

1 year, 8 months ago on Benghazi: The Definitive Report

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 @theAtrium  @Snap No,  Did not get the book yet.   However, it is good to know that people like Jack are taking this public.   My thanks to him for that.    We need to get all the pieces together.  

1 year, 8 months ago on Benghazi: The Definitive Report

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 @Snap So, back to my initial point.   It would have been in Obama's interest to DO NOTHING ONLY IF HE WAS TRYING TO HIDE A WEAPONS FUNNELING OPERATION TO MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD OR AL QAEDA.   If Obama was trying to stop it, the news would have been all over the place about how he was fighting terrorism (bravely, and single-handedly, I might add...)

1 year, 8 months ago on Benghazi: The Definitive Report

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 @Txazz  @JackMurphyRGR  @theAtrium   The whole point of the camouflage is that NOBODY TAKES, OR IS ASSIGNED, RESPONSIBILITY. 

 

I say again - Iran Contra. 

1 year, 8 months ago on Benghazi: The Definitive Report

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 @JackMurphyRGR Jack:  I obviously do not know exactly what Obama knew when, but when an embassy gets attacked, the White House knows.    Nothing is an accident with these people.   He could have chosen to ignore it, or he might have commanded our forces to not react.  Either way, it is very difficult to believe that Obama was not infofrmed.   The lame excuse given by the white house the "The president was not available" is as insulting as it is stupid.  

 

Note also that any "conclusion" that the white house is merely "incompetent" is highly preferable to a conclusion that the white house purposely withheld rescue to further a hidden interest.    The white house would love to have the talk shows rambling on about incompetence rather than ill intent.

 

So, I do not know.  Nobody here does.   We need to find out.

1 year, 8 months ago on Benghazi: The Definitive Report

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My reading was that the FAST (Marine QRF) was 2 hours away and knew almost immediately of the situation.   The attack took over 8 hours, finishing at the CIA Annex.

 

There is no way that Obama did not know exactly what was happening.   He had to have made a choice to react or not to react.    Ergo, OBAMA is responsible for the decision to not react.   The only question is whether he made the decision because he (1) thought the situation not worthy of a reaction, or (2) he desired the outcome we got.

 

If (2), he had a reasonable expectation that he could blame it on (1) and get away with it.   Camouflage.   Red-Herring.   Sun Tzu, all the way.

1 year, 8 months ago on Benghazi: The Definitive Report

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Sorry, Ham is Army.   Comment stands...

1 year, 8 months ago on Benghazi: The Definitive Report

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Has anyone ever ascertained who gave the order to stand down the Marine QRF which was preparing to go into Bengazi?   Has anyone ascertained why the Marine General (Ham?) was relieved of command?

 

 

1 year, 8 months ago on Benghazi: The Definitive Report

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There is another scenario that must be considered...

 

Assume the Obama administration is trying to facilitate the movement of SA7 AA missiles from Libya to the Muslim Brotherhood or Al Qaeda (those weapons were shipped from Bengazi to Syria through Turkey on 12 Sep 2012).  Assume that this support was unknown to CIA and Patraeus (a rogue CIA/Whitehouse operation).   To prevent the ambassador (Stevens) or CIA officers from interfering with or "outing" the movement of these weapons, Obama's people used their Muslim Brotherhood connections to order a hit on the Ambassador, and then on the CIA annex.

 

This gives Obama plausible deniability, blaming the operation on those who were actually trying to prevent the movement of these arms to Muslim extremists.   Neither Patraeus nor Clinton would had any knowledge.   Only Obama, his handlers, and the MB contact would know.

 

I comment Webb on his book, but I wonder if this is the real story.    I am convinced that this was a rogue Whitehouse operation, and that the ambassador was intentionally hit on a tip from the White House.

 

 

1 year, 8 months ago on Benghazi: The Definitive Report

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Someone with better intel than I have, consider this possible scenario concerning Bengazi:

 

Assume the Obama Administration is trying to facilitate the movement of SA7 AA missiles from Libya to the Muslim Brotherhood and Al Qaeda (those weapons were shipped from Bengazi to Syria through Turkey on Sep 12).   Assume that this support was unknown to CIA and Patraeus (it was a rogue CIA / White House operation).    To prevent the Ambassador or CIA officers from from interfering with or "outing" the movement of those weapons, Obama's people used their Muslim Brotherhood contacts to order a hit on the Ambassador, and then on the CIA annex.

 

This gives Obama the ability to have plausible deniability, blaming the operation on those who are actually trying to prevent the movement of arms.   Neither Patraeus nor Clinton would have any knowledge of it.    The only people with knowledge would be Obama (and his handlers), and his Muslim Brotherhood Handlers.

 

I do not believe that Webb's book gets all the way to the bottom of this story, but that he is onto something that stinks.

 

This seems to me to be Obama's version of Iran Contra.  For you young guys, look it up.  That was in my day...

 

 

1 year, 8 months ago on Hillary Clinton’s Testimony on Benghazi: SOFREP’s Take

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