john manhole
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The assumption is that someone would have wanted Shannon. I am not sure that's a good assumption. I wouldn't want Shannon anywhere near my team if I were a GM. He's a bad basketball player, simple as that.
Agreed. I can't stand Bassy. I hated the signing when it happened, and hated it the whole time he was here. He proved his worth (very little) while he was on the court, and he proved his classiness (very little) in his departure. Bassy needs to grow up and learn that the NBA is a business and his bosses don't owe it to him to give him everything he wants.
IowaPhXfan - Home. Run.
Couldn't agree more. Telfair = bad. Picks = good (who cares if Telfair is better than Haddadi, neither Telfair or Haddadi would have survived in PHX past this season regardless. The Suns turned an expiring worthless vet into a low second-round pick. That's a good deal any day of the week).
Btw, as far as tanking is concerned, I don't agree whatsoever with the concept of tanking intentionally. I do agree that the Suns should play the young guys to see what they have, but in no way, shape or form should any player or squad step onto the court with the intention of NOT winning. There's a subtle difference, in my opinion, but a very important one.
@arizona_jim where does 6% come into this?
Look at the standings. The Suns aren't going to "catch" any of the bottom three teams. They're also not all that likely to come out on top of the group of 20-23 win teams (Cleveland, Detroit, Toronto, Philly, New Orleans, and Sacramento). They're pretty much locked into the 4-7 range as far as the odds are concerned. And that's just the thing... they're just ODDS. How many times since the inception of the lottery have the ping-pong balls been picked in order of the odds. Having a worse record does very little to guarantee a better pick when you're talking about being 4th worst vs 5th worst. You have absolutely no ground to stand on. You just like to whine.
I would be for JO staying as well, so long as he is willing to sign on at or near the vet min. I don't know how "settled" he has become in the Valley, but I would imagine that his family isn't all that happy about all this moving around from season to season. I'd bet that a guy who has already made $165M in his career isn't all that concerned about another big pay day.
Initial reaction:
"BAH! Robert Sarver is such a cheap-o! He'd sell his own mother if it'd fatten his wallet! How can he charge so much much for watered down crap! BAH!"
After reading "bringing the Suns’ beer to 38 cents per oz., which is right on the league average.":
"Well, he still sucks, and I bet he really WOULD sell his mother for the right price."
I think Gentry was a little too sure of his own intuition to branch out and try new strategies when his methods weren't working. A lot of coaches have the mentality that they will tweak something by changing out the parts until it's fixed. A lot of coaches have the mentality that they can fix anything that's broken. Given Gentry's desire to acquire guys like Bassy and Beasley and witnessing his in-game coaching decisions over his tenure, it's pretty clear that Gentry was the latter type of coach.
What Suns fan even finds a way to gripe when the Suns beat the Spurs in SA? Get out of here, hater.
20 wins better would be reversing the tables completely and turning this into a "great" team. That's not what TySun was arguing, if I'm understanding correctly. I guess it depends on your definition of "good," but I would consider a team a "good" team if they can hover around 5 games over .500. For the Suns to get there, they'd have to be around a dozen wins better than they are right now. I don't think it's unreasonable to believe that one good player is worth somewhere around a dozen wins. A good player makes those around him better, including other good players. We have seen how well Goran can play when the talent around him matches (and we see how mediocre he can be when the talent is lacking). If you could replace the minutes that Shannon Brown (WS/48 0.049), PJ Tucker (WS/48 0.069), and Wesley Johnson (WS/48 -0.023) have played with a guy like Harden, I would be willing to bet the Suns would be 10 wins better.
@SkyBill40 Good stuff. I agree with basically every word.
@suns68 @SkyBill40 40-50 players? You haters are delusional.
I can understand where you're coming from when you explain it a little further than you had before, but I think your initial judgment was a bit harsh/off.
"I would have much rather seen them send Kendall Marshall." If the Suns had sent Marshall, it would have been likely that THEY would be the ones sending a future pick away. In that scenario, next season you would have no Telfair, no Marshall, and one less second-round pick. I don't think that's better off than where they currently sit as a result of this trade.
And on Telfair... he hasn't been playing well. His PER and WS/48 are well below league averages. His net rating is negative 10. His assist % is 22. His eFG% is 47. He's not the worst backup in the league, but that's extremely far from what I would call "playing well." Is he better than Marshall at this point? Clearly. We agree there. Where we disagree is on the point that turning a bad player on an expiring deal (Telfair) into a low second-round pick is a good trade.
And by the way, your numbers ("for every one gem you find, you get 25 washouts) are more than slightly exaggerated. The chances of getting a quality role player in the 30-40 range are actually fairly decent (between 20%-40%). I don't really have faith in the evaluation skills of the front office and its analytics team, but that's a different story. Also, let's not forget the Suns don't even have to use that pick. They could use it in a future deal to net worthwhile, proven NBA talent. They have double digit picks over the next three years now. No matter how bad this front office is, they're bound to hit some time or another.
The fact that BoomShakaLuka and SkyBill40 don't see this move as a positive is simply baffling to me. They took a far-below-average, aging PG who would have been gone at the end of the year anyways (with nothing coming back in return) into a future 2nd rounder than is likely to be in the 30-40 range. For a little perspective on what that can actually turn into, I'm going to randomly select a couple of draft years and show you if there were any good players that came from that range of picks.
2005
Round 2, Pick 3 - Brandon Bass
Round 2, Pick 4 - CJ Miles (I'm not all that impressed with Miles, but he most certainly has his moments)
Round 2, Pick 6 - Ersan Ilyasova
Round 2, Pick 10 - Monta Ellis
2001
Round 2, Pick 2 - Gilbert Arenas
Round 2, Pick 6 - Brian Scalibrine (the greatest leaper the game has ever seen)
Round 2, Pick 9 - Mehmet Okur
That's two random years, and I found 6 guys out of those 20 picks I would much rather have on my team than a guy like Telfair (who, again, would be gone at the end of this year regardless with nothing in return). This move has NO downside. Only upside (although, admittedly, the chances of that pick turning into a quality piece are probably around 30%. Still, I'd rather take 30% than 0%).
Current Vegas money line on the Suns getting the Wear brothers: -$250
Current Vegas money line on the Suns getting the Bachynski brothers: +600
I don't know about you, but I'm throwing down a hundo on the Bachynski line. That's money in the bank.
The Dragon has awoken.
Regarding Rosenthal's tweet, I think the Should just go with first names for the Morris twins. They could even go And1 Mix Tape on us and just start putting nicknames on the backs. "Dragon." "'Kieff." "Bassy." "Girltot," oops, I mean "Polish Hammer." :)