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The assumption is that someone would have wanted Shannon. I am not sure that's a good assumption. I wouldn't want Shannon anywhere near my team if I were a GM. He's a bad basketball player, simple as that.
1 year, 9 months ago on Suns’ effort to maximize youth killing Brown’s career year, trade value
Agreed. I can't stand Bassy. I hated the signing when it happened, and hated it the whole time he was here. He proved his worth (very little) while he was on the court, and he proved his classiness (very little) in his departure. Bassy needs to grow up and learn that the NBA is a business and his bosses don't owe it to him to give him everything he wants.
1 year, 9 months ago on Toronto Raptors 98, Phoenix Suns 71 – Crashing down
IowaPhXfan - Home. Run.
Couldn't agree more. Telfair = bad. Picks = good (who cares if Telfair is better than Haddadi, neither Telfair or Haddadi would have survived in PHX past this season regardless. The Suns turned an expiring worthless vet into a low second-round pick. That's a good deal any day of the week).
Btw, as far as tanking is concerned, I don't agree whatsoever with the concept of tanking intentionally. I do agree that the Suns should play the young guys to see what they have, but in no way, shape or form should any player or squad step onto the court with the intention of NOT winning. There's a subtle difference, in my opinion, but a very important one.
@arizona_jim where does 6% come into this?
1 year, 9 months ago on Phoenix Suns 105, San Antonio Spurs 101 (OT) — O'Neal takes over
I like that plan, Iowa. Let's get it done, Babby and Blanks.
Look at the standings. The Suns aren't going to "catch" any of the bottom three teams. They're also not all that likely to come out on top of the group of 20-23 win teams (Cleveland, Detroit, Toronto, Philly, New Orleans, and Sacramento). They're pretty much locked into the 4-7 range as far as the odds are concerned. And that's just the thing... they're just ODDS. How many times since the inception of the lottery have the ping-pong balls been picked in order of the odds. Having a worse record does very little to guarantee a better pick when you're talking about being 4th worst vs 5th worst. You have absolutely no ground to stand on. You just like to whine.
I would be for JO staying as well, so long as he is willing to sign on at or near the vet min. I don't know how "settled" he has become in the Valley, but I would imagine that his family isn't all that happy about all this moving around from season to season. I'd bet that a guy who has already made $165M in his career isn't all that concerned about another big pay day.
Meh. Haters gonna hate. Whiners gonna whine.
"BAH! Robert Sarver is such a cheap-o! He'd sell his own mother if it'd fatten his wallet! How can he charge so much much for watered down crap! BAH!"
After reading "bringing the Suns’ beer to 38 cents per oz., which is right on the league average.":
"Well, he still sucks, and I bet he really WOULD sell his mother for the right price."
1 year, 9 months ago on NBA beer prices: Do the Suns sell the most expensive brews?
I think Gentry was a little too sure of his own intuition to branch out and try new strategies when his methods weren't working. A lot of coaches have the mentality that they will tweak something by changing out the parts until it's fixed. A lot of coaches have the mentality that they can fix anything that's broken. Given Gentry's desire to acquire guys like Bassy and Beasley and witnessing his in-game coaching decisions over his tenure, it's pretty clear that Gentry was the latter type of coach.
What Suns fan even finds a way to gripe when the Suns beat the Spurs in SA? Get out of here, hater.
@IowaPhXfan @TySun @SA
20 wins better would be reversing the tables completely and turning this into a "great" team. That's not what TySun was arguing, if I'm understanding correctly. I guess it depends on your definition of "good," but I would consider a team a "good" team if they can hover around 5 games over .500. For the Suns to get there, they'd have to be around a dozen wins better than they are right now. I don't think it's unreasonable to believe that one good player is worth somewhere around a dozen wins. A good player makes those around him better, including other good players. We have seen how well Goran can play when the talent around him matches (and we see how mediocre he can be when the talent is lacking). If you could replace the minutes that Shannon Brown (WS/48 0.049), PJ Tucker (WS/48 0.069), and Wesley Johnson (WS/48 -0.023) have played with a guy like Harden, I would be willing to bet the Suns would be 10 wins better.
Good stuff. I agree with basically every word.
1 year, 9 months ago on Sebastian Telfair traded to Raptors for Hamed Haddadi
40-50 players? You haters are delusional.
I can understand where you're coming from when you explain it a little further than you had before, but I think your initial judgment was a bit harsh/off.
"I would have much rather seen them send Kendall Marshall." If the Suns had sent Marshall, it would have been likely that THEY would be the ones sending a future pick away. In that scenario, next season you would have no Telfair, no Marshall, and one less second-round pick. I don't think that's better off than where they currently sit as a result of this trade.
And on Telfair... he hasn't been playing well. His PER and WS/48 are well below league averages. His net rating is negative 10. His assist % is 22. His eFG% is 47. He's not the worst backup in the league, but that's extremely far from what I would call "playing well." Is he better than Marshall at this point? Clearly. We agree there. Where we disagree is on the point that turning a bad player on an expiring deal (Telfair) into a low second-round pick is a good trade.
And by the way, your numbers ("for every one gem you find, you get 25 washouts) are more than slightly exaggerated. The chances of getting a quality role player in the 30-40 range are actually fairly decent (between 20%-40%). I don't really have faith in the evaluation skills of the front office and its analytics team, but that's a different story. Also, let's not forget the Suns don't even have to use that pick. They could use it in a future deal to net worthwhile, proven NBA talent. They have double digit picks over the next three years now. No matter how bad this front office is, they're bound to hit some time or another.
The fact that BoomShakaLuka and SkyBill40 don't see this move as a positive is simply baffling to me. They took a far-below-average, aging PG who would have been gone at the end of the year anyways (with nothing coming back in return) into a future 2nd rounder than is likely to be in the 30-40 range. For a little perspective on what that can actually turn into, I'm going to randomly select a couple of draft years and show you if there were any good players that came from that range of picks.
Round 2, Pick 3 - Brandon Bass
Round 2, Pick 4 - CJ Miles (I'm not all that impressed with Miles, but he most certainly has his moments)
Round 2, Pick 6 - Ersan Ilyasova
Round 2, Pick 10 - Monta Ellis
Round 2, Pick 2 - Gilbert Arenas
Round 2, Pick 6 - Brian Scalibrine (the greatest leaper the game has ever seen)
Round 2, Pick 9 - Mehmet Okur
That's two random years, and I found 6 guys out of those 20 picks I would much rather have on my team than a guy like Telfair (who, again, would be gone at the end of this year regardless with nothing in return). This move has NO downside. Only upside (although, admittedly, the chances of that pick turning into a quality piece are probably around 30%. Still, I'd rather take 30% than 0%).
Current Vegas money line on the Suns getting the Wear brothers: -$250
Current Vegas money line on the Suns getting the Bachynski brothers: +600
I don't know about you, but I'm throwing down a hundo on the Bachynski line. That's money in the bank.
1 year, 9 months ago on Suns trade rumors: Rockets' Marcus Morris traded to Phoenix
@CurioduoNot until next season, correct. And I wouldn't want him then, either.
The Dragon has awoken.
1 year, 9 months ago on Golden State Warriors 108, Phoenix Suns 98 – Back to reality
Regarding Rosenthal's tweet, I think the Should just go with first names for the Morris twins. They could even go And1 Mix Tape on us and just start putting nicknames on the backs. "Dragon." "'Kieff." "Bassy." "Girltot," oops, I mean "Polish Hammer." :)
@HarrySun It was funnier before it was edited. :)
1 year, 10 months ago on Phoenix Suns 102, Portland Trail Blazers 98 -- The dying embers of the fire
Regardless of who is better than who, we now know for certain that the Suns have the worse of the twin brothers again.
1 year, 10 months ago on Suns trade rumors: Rockets' Marcus Morris traded to Phoenix
The Dragon never wants to lose. What a great game from him. I hope he finishes the season strong like he did last year with HOU.
While I agree that Howard isn't worth the hype and praise he has received, I still believe he's the best center in the game and there is only one other guy I can think of that I'd put in the conversation (Marc). Tyson Chandler could maybe be thrown in there as well, I guess. Point being, Dwight Howard, for all his headaches, is still a worthwhile NBA talent who has already proven he can be one of the top 3 players in the NBA and the defensive leader of a championship-caliber team. If he recovers fully from his injuries, I have no doubt that he has another three or four years left at that level. If I were a GM, I would be more than a little bit interested.
1 year, 10 months ago on Josh Smith trade rumors involving Suns crop up again
So, I can see that the fact that he has paid 2 max players in the past means nothing to you. If facts mean nothing to you, then we have nothing to talk about.
He actually already has before (Amar'e and Marion), so I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make. If you want to argue that Sarver wasn't the one who inked the Marion deal (he just paid most of it), then how about Shaq (who admittedly wasn't max because I think his max at the time was something like $28M, but he was still making $20M-$21M in a Suns uni) and Amar'e?
Either way, your ridiculous claim holds no water.
WILL it happen? That's a different story, but I have no doubt in my mind that if the right deals for the right players came up, Sarver wouldn't hesitate to do what he's already done in the past (especially because the Suns were experiencing much more success in those days).
Holy YES! I couldn't agree more. She's the best thing to come from Poland since sausage (and yes, I know how weird that sounds).
1 year, 10 months ago on To trade or not to trade: Marcin Gortat
I can't watch the video atm, so I obviously can't take VotS's opinions into consideration, but I'm definitely in favor of moving Gortat if the price is right. If the Suns could land an unprotected first rounder for Marcin, the deal would be done if I were the GM. Heck, if they could land a protected first rounder and a quality role player, I'd pull the trigger in a heartbeat. Anything less than that, and I'd be hesitant to make a deal. Gortat isn't a bad player. I actually think he's fairly good, but I don't believe he's part of the long-term solution for the Suns, and I think the sooner they can get rid of those types of guys, the better.
If Charlotte would do that, heck yes I would be on board. However, I don't think Charlotte has much incentive to give up a surefire top 5 pick just to make their team marginally better and save a few bucks. One can hope though, right?
1 year, 10 months ago on To trade or not to trade: Jared Dudley
Good points, TySun, and I agree about that's the reasoning that most people would use to justify tanking in the NBA. However, I still think it's sad that NBA management and players check their manhood at the door once the season is lost. I see the benefits of intentionally tanking, but there's no way they would outweigh the desire to win in my book. Not on my watch.
The good thing about a team like the '12-'13 Suns is that they're so bad it that they're going to tank even if they don't try, so I don't have to worry about them intentionally giving up and nobody else has to worry about them hurting their lottery chances. Everyone wins... except the Suns.
1 year, 10 months ago on Los Angeles Lakers 91, Phoenix Suns 85 -- Black unis fall short
Isn't it frustrating that the NBA requires a lottery system to prevent teams from tanking? I can't stand how unmanly of a league the NBA is as a whole (and also how many teams there are, watering down the talent level for each team). In the NFL, every team tries to win every game, no matter the cost. Even in the "suck for Luck" year, it was obvious that every team near the bottom of the standings was trying to win each and every game they played. In the NBA, players don't play hard for bad teams, management gives up a quarter of the way through the season, and the fans are left pointlessly discussing how great/bad the future looks by the time December rolls around. Sound familiar to anyone here?
Livingston's knee injury was quite a bit different than Noel's. Livingston's knee basically blew up. There was a serious chance, given the extent of his injuries, that he may have lost his leg or never regained anything slightly resembling his former functionality (I realize he's still hampered compared to his former self, but I mean it was possible he might never have been able to even walk normally).
I'm not nearly as concerned about Noel's injury, although it still does give me some slight worry. Of all the athletes who have ever torn ACL's, I can't think of many who were better for it. Outside of All Day, I can't really think of one. Given where drugs and performance enhancers are at today, though, and given that the NBA doesn't seem to care about them, I don't think Noel's injury isn't going to be something that's going to hurt him going forward, if I had to guess.
@the real shazam
THEY ARE WHO WE THOUGHT THEY WERE...
Ah, Phoenix sports have been missing a good rant for quite some time. C'mon, Hunter, do us proud.
Telfair has no future with the team. Why should he be played? He isn't part of the solution, and the Suns aren't stuck with him. On the other hand, Marshall probably isn't part of the solution either, but the Suns ARE stuck with him.
I never enjoy it when the Suns lose to the Lakers, but honestly, this might have been the best thing. I have little doubt that the Lakers will make the playoffs, which leads me to believe that the Suns' best hope of getting better quickly is to maximize their chances in the lottery. Worst in the West heading into the break, but I still love 'em.
A 10-game stretch doesn't mean all that much, in my book, but just for the heck of it I checked out his last 5. 17.2/6.4/0.8 (AST)/1.6 (BLK) on 66% shooting in about 31 minutes. Those are decent numbers (like I said, I believe Lopez is decent. His ppg total is more than decent, but the rest of his numbers are pretty mediocre (and his insane shooting is likely contributing to that high ppg. When things normalize, he's not going to be averaging 17).
I'm pointing that out because I don't fully agree with your statement that "the Suns should have traded Gortat instead of Lopez." I agree that they should have traded Gortat (assuming the right deal was out there), but I don't think they should have kept Lopez. From what I remember from around that time, reports were that Lopez wanted 4 years guaranteed with more than $5M per (I think he was originally thinking between $7M and $8M, but he might have dropped his expectations once he realized the rest of the league knew he was insane for asking for that much). Assuming the Suns would have been able to sign Lopez to a comparable deal (money-wise or option-wise) is a leap that I don't think is logical or reasonable. Lopez wanted starter minutes and starter money to stay with the Suns, and I don't think he's worth either.
And again, I can't fully agree that Clark is better than Morris. His numbers are normalizing, and it's becoming fairly evident that he's an average to slightly-below-average player. Again, I'm not going to say Kieff is definitively better, but I don't think anyone could say that for Clark either. Both are slightly-below-average players with what I believe is limited upside. Does Clark have slightly more potential? I might agree with that, but it's a little pointless to discuss such things, in my opinion, when neither of those guys are ever going to be impact players for a good team unless they DRASTICALLY change their games (for instance, I think the only chance either of those guys has of being an impact player is develop a deadly deep ball and/or develop a knack for rebounding at an insane rate. Both guys are capable, but I don't think either will accomplish it.)
Again, I think it's kind of pointless to discuss bad players at such lenght, so this will be the last thing I say on this matter for now. I think it might help to just mellow and understand that what leads to situations like this is not always blatant negligence like you seem to think, and getting frustrated about things that are out of your control is not only pointless, but also self-destructive. Cheers.
1 year, 10 months ago on Al Jefferson and Gordon Hayward interest Suns, Coro reports
I think you're right on about rebounding, Sillmarillion.
Also, IowaPhXfan is right on about the activity. I have a feeling a few users were managing multiple personalities, and it's simply not worth anyone's time to troll from four different accounts except for the trolliest of trolls.
I, for one, am THRILLED VotS went to a different comment system. I still would like to see a few things different, but this is a huge step in the right direction. Great job, guys.
Another point, I keep seeing you mention that the Suns are going to be left with nothing once Gortat leaves as if Lopez could have been signed to a 12 year extension. Lopez has one more year on his deal than Gortat, correct? No long-term problems would have been solved with Lopez (for one because he's not that good, and secondly because of the years). Do you honestly think the Suns would have been better off with Robin Lopez and Earl Clark? Look at the two teams those guys play for. Neither one of those guys are top-5 options on BAD teams. How does it make sense to you that those guys would significantly improve the Suns?
This is a good plan. All the problems are solved, people. Move along.
As usual, I'm more with Rich on this one. <br>
On a similar note, Earl Clark, even with his halfway decent numbers in LA, is still not a good player. PER of 14.7 and WS/48 of 0.109. That's decent, but it's nothing that's worthy of a starter's minutes in the NBA. I'm not saying Kieff is better than Clark at the moment, but I see no reason to believe that Earl Clark is significantly better.<br>
Also, Robin Lopez is averaging 11.8/5.5 in 26 minutes. Let's not blow things out of proportion with him. He's a decent center, no doubt, which is exactly what I thought he was when he was in Phoenix, but there is no way you can convince me that he's a 35 mpg guy who's going to give you 18/10 with 3 blocks and 2-3 assists. Robin Lopez is a great backup C. Robin Lopez is a mediocre starting C. I don't think either Gortat or Lopez were part of a long-term solution, so why would it matter if the Suns had held onto Lopez (I do agree that they should have traded Gortat, though, assuming the right deal was on the table)?
Excellent defensive effort by the Suns to hold the mighty Thunder to just 97 points.
1 year, 10 months ago on Oklahoma City 97, Phoenix Suns 69 -- A low of lows
@bkkkkkkkk Woj has it out for the Suns' brass. He'll say anything negative about Suns management (especially Sarver) just to get a few clicks.
1 year, 10 months ago on Iman Shumpert wanted by Suns, according to NBA trade rumor