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@SkyBill40 lol @ fucks given. good debating.
2 years ago on Toronto Raptors 98, Phoenix Suns 71 – Crashing down
ADIOS BILLY. Go root for the Spurs. BYE.
@TySun @SkyBill40 In the NBA, it's easier to luck into 1 great player than it is to build an entire team.
In the last 25 yrs, ask the Bulls, Rockets, Spurs, Lakers, Cavs/Mia, OKC
No, Phx probably can't do like Mia, LA, or Bos and attract 2 or 3 top free agents. It's very very difficult to do what Detroit or Dallas did to win a championship.
Sorry maybe it's just me, but I'd rather suck for a few years in hopes of landing our Lebron/Durant/Duncan to build around and compete for a championship an entire decade. Rather than being stuck in mediocrity and praying a top free agent wants to come here or we strike gold with a 13th pick of draft.
If the goal is to win a championship.... then history shows your best chances are landing a top 5 pick. (MJ, Hakeem, Duncan, Shaq, Lebron, Wade, Durant, Rose)
You find the star, then build around them. Seldom ever works the other way around.
@SkyBill40 How's the dirt taste? :)
Gordon changed his tune once he realized he was stuck in NO? Wow shocking...
Joe Johnson - really wish we could be paying him $20M/yr right now...
Rondo - yes obviously it would be great to have Rondo right now, but we had Nash for the first 5 years of his career.... so not sure what you wanted Phx to do... draft another position at 21st pick I guess
Deng - would've been great - would still love him - but again we had a young Amare/Marion/Johnson at the 3 & 4... not really sure where he fits in - pry should've just drafted a diff position
I don't blame Sarver for running away from contracts that were getting WAY out of hand. See what happened in the new CBA? The owners reminded the players why they're getting paid so much to play a game.
According to you, you wish we signed Amare to 5 yrs/$100M & Joe Johnson to 5 yrs/$100M. If that was the case then we'd be filling out the roster with you and me! Yikes. We have a new CBA and Phx is ahead of a lot of teams because they don't have a crazy contract or two with yrs remaining still. I don't agree with spending money just to spend money.
I don't agree with purposely not trying as a player. But I have no problem if management is secretly hoping to tank AND at the same time gaining valuable knowledge on young talent and gaining them experience. If the young players happen to overachieve and start winning a bunch of games, well then you have great trade value in them or have just found a good player.
Hope you're wearing your helmet, cause that pitch hit you square in the head.
@SkyBill40 Agree Marshall pick was horrible. Go see my past rants about that. Still, at least there's a tiny upside to playing Marshall/Garrett, because they haven't been given a chance yet. So why not see what they got.
Eric Gordon wanted to be in Phx more than NO - http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/story/2012-07-06/eric-gordon-upset-hornets-will-match-suns-offer/56071814/1
Do you pay attention to ANYTHING?
How exactly has Sarver gutted the franchise? You wanted to re-sign Amare to max deal? Look how that worked out for NY. You wanted to sign 38 yr old Nash to $10M/yr so we could battle for 10th best in the West?
Sorry but I just don't see any gutting and major cost cutting....please show me where/when/who!
Right now it's a very tough time to compete for championship with Lebron n Durant at their peaks for the next 5 yrs still. It's going to take a methodical patient effort to build a team that can compete with Mia/OKC.
By the way, PHX hasn't tanked a season in forever just to help rebuild. So "continually playing poorly to get picks sets up a bad precedent and ruins the culture of the team" hasn't happened here. We're allowed to do it for 1-2 yrs in order to try to land top talent to compete again aren't we? Sorry but there aren't Lebrons and Durants floating around in free agency every year. You have to hope you can find one in the draft, which most likely would be a top 3 pick.
Sorry about the tennis analogy. I didn't know it was illegal to mix sports phrases. How about baseball? Cause from my count in this debate...I'm pitching a shutout.
@DBreezy Yeah he's done. No point in playing. You see so many veterans get a mild injury this time of year on losing teams and just shut it down. It's win-win for team tanking to get better pick and for the player to not lower his value by playing through injuries. Wouldn't be surprised to see Dragic's minutes gradually decrease....Marshall/Garrett will be running the show. There's zero plus side to playing Dragic right now, he's not going to be playing with half these guys next year anyway.
@SkyBill40 Telfair was a winner on the court last night, but a loser with what came out of his mouth. Bashing a team for trading for you when it makes perfect sense puts a red flag on you for rest of career.
They traded him to get another draft pick and to let two young pgs get the chance to play and see what they got. What the heck does Telfair give you? We're talking about a 2nd-3rd string pg here....
Sarver only cares bout keeping costs low? Telfair and Haddadi are making almost same amount...and Telfair was expiring.... soooo you are 100% false. Congrats.
Highest pick we've had in last 10 yrs is the 9th pick which was Amare.
HUGE difference between top 5 pick and a 10th-15th pick. HUGE.
By the way, players like playing in Phoenix. Nash re-signed here few years ago when everyone knew he should've left. Training staff is best in the league. Is Phx a top 5 destination? No. But they certainly aren't in the bottom 10. I'd say middle of the pack, at least it's warm climate, and very close to West Coast and Vegas.
Never did I say it was going to "suddenly come together overnight". So please don't put words in my mouth. Go read previous posts and I am the front runner for 2-3 year rebuilding process. It's going to take as many top draft picks as possible, plus a couple max contract free agents.
Possible lineup next year:
Isiah Austin/Jeff Withey
Play the young guys, let them learn on the court, and pray you land a top 3 pick for 2014 draft, when Wiggins, Parker, and Randle will all be franchise changers.
I have nothing to do with being a GM, but I DO understand business and can see the big picture instead of focusing on trying to win games when you're 20 under .500 and have hardly any young talent.
Time to learn how to be successful. Game. Set. Match.
@SkyBill40 Telfair is a loser. You want Phx to try to win as many games as possible from here on out? So we can get the 10th pick in draft instead of 5th? Sorry but you know absolutely nothing about running/rebuilding an NBA team if you don't understand why Phx traded him. (HINT HINT: Phx had a 21 yr old pg & 24 yr old pg sitting on the bench, neither one given a chance to play yet)
Back to over the phone customer service for you, SkyBill! Bye Bye :)
Dear Sebastian Telfair,
I hope you like Canadian Bacon, Cold Weather, Hockey, & Maple Syrup.
Because with the bitter butthurt comments regarding your departure from Phx, no other team is going to want that severe lack of professionalism and understanding of the NBA business.
"It sucks for me," Telfair said of how it felt to be traded. "I feel like I've done everything they asked me to do. I've been professional. I just don't see how with all the guys on the team we have and the way the season went, how does making the Suns better by trading me right now. I understand Kendall had to get an opportunity to play but (expletive) this is a man's league. You've got to be able to just compete. You've got to be able to be competitive with your teammates and other guys. I think I brought that to the table and I was cheated out of that."
You've BEEN professional. Welp, not anymore. You understand Kendall needs playing time since the season is over.......but--> "sh** this is a man's league"<--.........UHHH WHAT? That's the angle you're going to take? Don't think about how the FO is trying to rebuild a $500 million franchise, and don't think about how you should feel blessed to be given $18MILLION in the past 8 yrs to play a game for 7 months out of every year.
Oh and over your career you average: 21mpg, 7.5ppg, 3.5apg, 39%fg, 32%3pt
And don't get me started about how pissed you are because you have to leave your kids in Phx. You don't think most other players have same issue when they're traded?? I never hear them say that....probably because they get it's a business and are getting way overpaid to play a game. You know what you can do with $18MILLION, Sebastian? HIRE A FREAKING NANNY, HECK HIRE A NANNY, BUTLER, CHEF, DRIVER, AND SECURITY for your kids. You act like they were left all alone in a house by themselves. It's weird the way you said it.
Dude the season is over in a little over ONE month. Then you can move back to Phx with your family and figure out where to sign a contract way over priced. It's worth $1.5MILLION freakin dollars this year to live in Toronto for 2 months.....I assume? No? Oh...it is? You LIKE making a ridiculous amount of money for barely playing? I see.
Time for Math Class!
Telfair makes $1,567,500 this year. (top 1% in the US)
Telfair is on pace to play in only 68 games.
Telfair averages 17 minutes per game.
Telfair will make approximately $1,355 per minute played this year.
Telfair will make approximately $23,050 per game played this year. (above poverty line)
Telfair will make approximately $3,550 per POINT this year.
Now....considering these FACTS.....let me ask you Sebastian....is moving away from your family to Toronto for 2 months really THAT bad?
Should feel lucky the NBA let's anything go and you basically have to commit murder to get kicked out of the league, even then I'm sure they'd love a comeback from prison story.
I don't forget your multiple gun issues. Bringing a loaded gun on a plane in a pillowcase? And then lying saying you grabbed the wrong 'bag'? WTF. And then not learning your lesson and having illegal possession of handgun in your car with no driver's license. Again.....WTF.
PHOENIX was just emptying the garbage when they shipped you to Toronto. Obviously still haven't matured even though you're considered a veteran now, obviously you didn't learn a thing from a guy like Dudley.
Ungrateful, immature, whiner, self-centered, bitter, butthurt, overpaid, crybaby.
@Rich_Anthony I'd take him.
2 years ago on Phoenix Suns 105, San Antonio Spurs 101 (OT) — O'Neal takes over
@bkkkkkkkk umm what????
Duncan = Hall of Fame
Parker = top 5 pg
Ginobili = One of best 6th men in last 10 yrs, 2-time all star
"bunch of average shooters" = Green, Bonner, Diaw, Leonard = 4 guys shooting better from 3 than anybody on our TEAM
All we need to do is replace our team with the Spurs and we'd be good! Simple!+
@john manhole @TySun
I could get on board with this logic. Sorry did some horrible math previously when stated would need to be 20 wins better....only would need 10 more wins to be above .500 right now.
I almost threw Harden in also when I stated would need a Lebron or KD to improve that much....but I love Harden and agree he would make us close to 10 wins better at this point. Dragic/Harden would be comparable to Lin/Harden....Marcus Morris & Wes J do help with 3pt shooting...lineup I'd like to see is:
I think it would be a less explosive version of Houston's lineup....basically 4 guys who can all shoot and slash around 1 big.
@TySun You have got to be kidding me....Suns pull out a miraculous win by getting very lucky at end of regulation and then had all the momentum in OT.... we are ONE guy away from being a good team? Seriously? Unless that one guy goes by Lebron or KD I'm gonna have to strongly disagree with you. We are NINETEEN games under .500. 19!!! To be considered a "good" team I'd say that means we at least would have to be above .500 basketball, right? So ONE go to scorer would make this team at least 20 wins better so far this year.....ummm HUH?
These are great wins to keep everyone's morale up through this long season. Winning at SA is extra special and I loved every minute of it. But let's not get carried away, geez. It's not like we controlled the game at all, we got to OT by a miracle couple 3's and rare missed free throw at end of game by SA.
O'Neal is capable of showing flashback nights of his old self, but he in no way is able to keep that level of play up every game. I think he was pumped up to go against Duncan and show he still belongs. If can't get up for @SA against one of the all time greats then you misewell retire. But he took the challenge head on and played great.
Phx is also playing a much bigger lineup these days. Marshall and Dragic are the only guys under 6'5. Putting Dudley or Wes at the 2 and one of the Morris twins at the 3 has made us huge and helped rebounding a ton.
One interesting stat....we are 9-5 when we have 13 or less 3pt attempts. Reason for this is because we suck at 3's this year (32.5%, 29th in NBA).
Hopefully our "big" lineup doesn't succeed too much....or we'll play ourselves out of a top 5 pick!
@4everis2long @IowaPhXfan agreed...with his athleticism, size, and shooting I really don't understand how he isn't being considered a lock for top 10 right now....
Payne vs Zeller in 2 games this year:
Payne - 34 pts, 16 rebs, 3 blks, 13-18 fg (6-7 3pt)
Zeller - 26 pts, 12 rebs, 4 blks, 9-23 fg
And yes, they guard each other over half the game. Zeller couldn't do anything inside against Payne, had to take outside jumpers, hence his horrible shooting percentage for a big man. It's no mistake 2 of the 4 worst shooting games for Zeller this year was against Payne. The other 2 were Purdue who has a long dominant big man freshman, and the other was Georgetown who is very long and athletic. Basically, an athletic big man shuts down Zeller.
For the record, I'd take Payne with the 5th pick right now.
2 years, 1 month ago on Goran Dragic needs help; Suns' lack of deals an NBA trend
@4everis2long i also like payne, noticed he's gotten better and better. could be a steal late 1st but I'm afraid his stock will skyrocket at the combine....
I agree...rest Dragic and give Garrett a shot....he showed in D League he can put up big numbers if given 30 mins...I watched him all 4 yrs in college and he's the type that needs to play a lot because when he's in the game he tends to control the tempo (which is very fast usually)....put him in for only few minute spurts and he doesn't take charge as much as he should...if we gave him the ball and said this is your team for rest of the year I think most fans would be shocked at his production....when given confidence by the coaching staff he's shown huge improvements (http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/diante-garrett-1.html)
Only thing he has been questioned on is his outside shooting which judging from D league numbers it appears he has been working on that very hard... 10-16 on 3pt attempts....
2 years, 1 month ago on San Antonio Spurs 97, Phoenix Suns 87 -- No small victories
looks like we're planning on making lots of moves soon.... i like this first move.... marcus morris is a good role player.... Phx FO finally made up for taking the wrong twin! freakin hilarious.... only Phx
2 years, 1 month ago on Suns trade rumors: Rockets' Marcus Morris traded to Phoenix
yeah...with full healthy rosters the bobcats and magic are the only teams worse this year than Phx.
hopefully that works itself out and we can finish with 3rd worst record....would guarantee our pick no lower than 6th (4% chance of 6th) and give us good shoot at any of top 3.
much more important now that Noel tore his acl....draft is starting to look pretty weak though....not sure if i'm very excited about anybody besides mclemore :(
2 years, 1 month ago on Los Angeles Lakers 91, Phoenix Suns 85 -- Black unis fall short
@4everis2long @john manhole @Rich_Anthony What the heck are you talking about?....I know we are not a contending team...think you read what I said with different emphasis on certain words or something.
All I said was neither Lopez or Gortat are very good so why are we even debating about them. I am all for trading away any players we can for young talent or draft picks. But if nobody offered much for Gortat than you hang onto him and hope a better offer comes along.
On rebuilding teams there are always a couple guys getting vastly overpaid.... usually a bad attempt at showing the fans "hey we're still trying look we signed this guy who is kinda good!"....sadly I think it was a real attempt this offseason by the Phx FO and they actually thought Phx would be a playoff team.
Read any of my previous posts on here, I am the leader of the pack for trashing this whole thing and rebuilding to the max. Did you not see my hopeful starting lineup in 2 years????
2 years, 1 month ago on Al Jefferson and Gordon Hayward interest Suns, Coro reports
@Sillmarillion activity will always go down when you're required to create an account.... the day where youtube or google require you to create an account is not too far off...
@john manhole @4everis2long @Rich_Anthony ROBIN LOPEZ VS MARCIN GORTAT.........
Neither player will ever be a starter on a contending team. So who cares?
I'm excited for 2014-2015 season when our rotation is....
Trey Burke/Diante Garrett
Andrew Wiggins or Jabari Parker
(grabbing a mop to clean up my own drool.....)
acquire draft picks. no long term deals. sign lebron in 2014.
"taking my talents to the desert"
@Sillmarillion Nash made Brown a 1% better 3pt shooter than when he was in LA. He is down 8.5% this year.
Morris is getting just as open looks this year, nobody is hounding him at the 3pt line, he can take a wide open 3 anytime he wants. He's down 7.5% this year.
Obviously Nash is a better shooter, he's one of the greatest of all time. But he didn't take many 3's last year. He made less than 1/gm!
Sorry but I don't think replacing Dragic with Nash would increase our scoring at all this year. Dragic has done a good job for his first half season at being a team leader and knowing he is the PG of the team. I've said before, I think he will end up back as a 6th man eventually he just fits that role too well.
2 years, 1 month ago on New Orleans Hornets 93, Phoenix Suns 84 -- Too much Mardi Gras
@GregBrannan See TySun's response below......You want to win games this year? Strategy at this point should be play ANY young players you have. Veterans are worthless unless you can trade them.
You want to be stuck at the #13 pick for the next 5 yrs????
OPEN YOUR EYES. WE NEED TO TANK TO GET TOP DRAFT PICKS AND HOPE OTHER TOP PLAYERS WANT TO COME TO PHX. PLAYING WASHED UP VETERANS WHEN YOU ARE 16 GAMES UNDER .500 IS THE MOST WORTHLESS PLAN EVER.
@Sillmarillion Wrong. Dragic's strength is getting to rim. How is he suppose to do that with Scola/Gortat/Beas/Tucker/O'neal standing in his way? The issue is we have no 3pt shooting. This is by far our worst 3pt shooting team since 2001-2002. 11 years! We had a 36 yr old Majerle and Tony Delk leading the way. Horrible. In our glory 7 secs or less years, we shot about 40% from 3. We are shooting a dismal 32.6% this year. Only worse team is Minn. Last year we shot 34.3%, with Frye being a big part of that. Brown & Morris also shot WAY better last yr, they have both been awful this yr.
If we just shot 3pts as good as we did last year, we would've made 15 more 3's so far this year. That's 45 points. We've lost 8 games by 4 pts or less. I think we'd be close to 25-25 with same 3pt shooting we had last year.
Scola is NOT an upgrade over Frye for THIS team. As an overall fundamental basketball player, yes he is better. But that doesn't mean he makes our team better. We need shooting, badly. Phx has had 11 games where we shot 40% or better from 3. We're 8-3 in those games.
The Lakers would be better if they replaced Gasol with Gallinari or Ryan Anderson or Chandler Parsons......yet Gasol is by far the better player. Proper spacing is the foundation of any good offense. Hence the triangle offense....or 4 shooters around 1 big guy....
@4everis2long Agree the Suns have drafted on need recently instead of talent. Really really bad strategy unless you are already a title contender looking for specific pieces i.e. Mia, OKC, SA. etc.
Very very easy draft strategy to follow. Listen closely Phx FO.
The skills that translate the best from college to the NBA is rebounding, shot blocking, shooting, and quickness. If you aren't great at any one of those....most likely you aren't in the NBA (cough cough Kendall cough cough Marshall).
2nd round is best to find a guy that does one thing very well that can be a solid bench player. Too many teams are hoping to get lucky in 2nd rd and find a potential starter when there are very solid rebounders or shooters available.
@ojai1980 I agree on trading Telfair. He is useless to our team in our current rebuilding stage. I would like to see Garrett getting a chance at PG with Dragic at SG, and also play Garrett at SG with Marshall/Dragic at PG. They keep yanking him around between D-League and NBA roster, he is a young guard just like Marshall who needs to play. Telfair and Brown are a complete waste of time. They better both be traded or after the trade deadline released. Brown's ONLY use is he can still jump and do cool dunks. That's it. He's shooting 27% from three yet keeps jacking them up. Telfair is shooting 37% on 2pt shots. 39% on 3pt shots. WTF. I guess he worked REALLY hard on his 3pt shooting...and that's it?
In 2 weeks our lineup better look like this:
Bye Bye Gortat/Dudley/Brown/Telfair.
@4everis2long Yeah that TCU/KU game was crazy. One of the biggest upsets I can remember just because TCU is so horrid offensively. Reminds me of the Iowa State/Texas Tech game earlier in year. Think you can just show up and win (and you pretty much can against TCU/Texas Tech) but then it's still close with 10 mins left and the other team plays as hard as humanly possible because now they think holy $hit we could actually win. Funny stuff.
On the draft, Johnson is projected later 2nd rd if at all. No thanks if you're interested in Phx getting him. Only PG I would want Phx to draft is Trey Burke. He will likely go anywhere between 6th-15th. So we could get him with possibly our pick or LA's pick. I'd take him as starting PG right now, move Dragic over to SG or what I think will eventually happen is move Dragic back to 6th man role where he excels at giving lots of scoring for 2nd unit for about 20-25 mins/gm. Burke is very very similar to Lillard. And Lillard will win ROY.
"Dragic could not stay in front of Vasquez at all, and Vasquez single-handedly kept the Grizzlies close in the first half".......
We played NO last night. FYI. Sorry I know writing articles on our beloved Suns is probably about as exciting as watching paint dry at this point....but you're getting paid for this...right?
Good to see Marshall break out of his funk and go back to form....0 pts 3 asts in 20 mins. Well done. I hope Marshall hammers home the point I've been making about him, he's not quick enough to get past his man or stay in front of his man. Not good. Well I'm okay with it for the rest of the season because I want a top 3 pick. Let's hope we see plenty of Marshall standing at the top of the key trying to figure out how to get in the paint while his defender plays 5 feet off daring him to shoot.
@DBreezy Agree with your assessment on Morris and Frye. Morris wants to be Frye, but he's not. Morris needs to become Thomas Robinson if he wants to stay in this league. Rebound...defense...repeat.
Seriously? First off, Frye played the entire season and Hill/Redd both played 3/4 the season. As for Hill, no he wasn't a huge floor spacer but he could run the floor, hit the mid range jumper, and also was a great defender in guarding the other teams best wing.
Go checkout the worst 3pt shooting teams in the league. Oh I'll help you out -> Phx, Minn, Char, Chi, Memph.....coincidence all these teams have very limited outside shooting and all rank near the bottom in ppg? Umm no. Chi & Mem get by on their superior rebounding and defense.
Do you realize how much a difference one guy who can space the floor helps out your offense? We lost our 132 3ps from last year (Frye & Redd) and replaced that with zero 3pt shooters....
Also, Morris having a huge sophomore slump isn't helping anything. Down 8% on threes to a woeful 27%.
Ask Rubio how things are going in Minn with Love & Buddinger injured and no outside shooting. Minn has been a trainwreck this year because Love has been hurt but when he was playing he was horrid from three.
I'm sorry but there is no chance this team would be .500 if we only replaced Dragic with Nash. Add a healthy Frye to that? Ok maybe a chance at .500 then.
Don't forget we also lost RoLo, big dropoff in rebounding and defense compared to Scola.
Give me Frye, Hill, Redd, & RoLo any day of the week over Scola, Beas, O'Neal, & Tucker. It's not even a debate!
Nash doesn't magically turn guys into 3pt shooters. His main strength is getting the ball to big guys on pick n rolls and in the post. So I guess we'd be getting a lot more of Scola & Gortat mid range jumpers....which they both shoot about 43% on. If that doesn't get ya excited I don't know what will....
2 years, 1 month ago on Preview: Phoenix Suns (16-32) at Memphis Grizzlies (30-16)