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So you are still too stupid to prove that the dependent clause now overrules the independent clause we see!

1 day, 13 hours ago on Conversation @


Oh thats right, Obama appointed an anti gunterd BATF agent from Chicagostan, which has the poorest record of prosecuting crimes involving the illegal use of a gun of ANY of the 90 district offices!

Yet you expect an incompentent to improve how again?

1 day, 15 hours ago on Conversation @


Really sad when even your gun ban leaders admit ENFORCE THE EXISTING LAWS MORONS!

Bloomberg’s guy admits ENFORCE THE EXISTING LAWS, LOL!

More democrat enabled blood lust!

Target robbery……thought this was a gun free zone eh?

Thought criminals obeyed your no guns at Target signs eh?

A man fatally shot his wife Sunday night in a cafe in the Ikebukuro district of Tokyo, apparently in a fit of anger during a quarrel.

1 day, 15 hours ago on Conversation @


Amazing how violent and blood thirsty democrats are...well not really, its what they are!

Politicians and thuggstas working together…the chicagostan way!

Hey, another gun free zone where thuggsta democrats rob without fear of being shot on the L in chicagostan

More chicagostan gun ban paradise violence!

This is what happens to disarmed citizens in chicagostan

Man that’s a lot of killing enabled by democrats!

Fake firearms, man you anti gunterds better ban those to!

Gun free signs, didn’t stop the criminals yet again!

Thought you anti gunterds claimed no guns allowed signs stopped criminals eh, LOL!

1 day, 15 hours ago on Conversation @


Review of Self-defense incidents collated at Guns Save Lives dot net (many more website and incidents exist, takes time to collate) from February 2012-present shows….

780 = Total Incidents

2,242 = Total People Defended

1,264 = Total attackers

11 = Attacked in car (car jacking)

168 = Attacked at Business

506 = Attacked at Home

83 = Attacked Other (churches, parking lots, etc…)

64.9% = % of attacks at home

2.52 = Avg. # of attackers when more than 1

59.6% = % of incidents 1 attacker

40.4% = % of incidents more than 1 attacker

60.6 %  = % of bad guys armed

Hmmmm, where were all the police to protect these victims eh?

1 day, 15 hours ago on Conversation @



By the way moron, when are any of you obamabagger anti gunterds going to post the publicly available 990 tax forms of the NSSF & NRA side by side and prove your straw men lies are true!

Since both are publicly available, you should need only 30 minutes maximum to pull and post said evidence!

Failure to do so means you are proven to be the pathological liar we already know all anti gunterds to be!

1 day, 16 hours ago on Conversation @



But in reality, we have found the perfect solution for suicide and violence in the US, all based on your progressive kommies penchant for everyone shares responsibility for everyone else’s actions! 

This based on a N Korean defectors response to what is the suicide rate in N Korea!

North Korea is known to be the country with the lowest suicide rate on earth. Why is this, for this nation with the worst world economy, human rights violations, and highest number of defectors in the world? It is because there is a mental pressure far stronger than suicide itself.

North Korea defines, "Every citizens of DPRK is a family member of 'Kim Il Sung People' and a child of 'Ocean-like Kim Jong Il comrade'." Because of this, every citizen is a member of this larger society; therefore, committing suicide is considered a treason, marking the person as a traitor to the leader, the party, the nation, and the people.

If someone in your family committed suicide, everyone in the family gets purged by North Korea's infamous IMPLICATED CRIME LAW.

This is why a North Korean citizen can end his/her poor life by starving/freezing/beaten to death, but not suicide. However, even with this kind of strict and unforgiving social pressure on suicide, some people kill themselves with much contempt for their government.

Suicide may let the dead rest, but the rest of the family would be socially and politically ostracized for the rest of their lives, with no hope for success or career.

So in reality, you anti gun nuts should be all over this kind of law, the IMPLICATED CRIME LAW to punish those not responsible, collectively, the kommie lovers way.

Convicted of suicide or violent felony, your entire family will never have welfare, food stamps, free school, no citizenship, etc, etc…no trial to decide this, automatic and no repeals!

That would be a constitutional law as we already see law abiding people not guilty of committing a crime being taxed, registered, banned because of the criminals actions.

So when are you anti gun nuts going to buy into such an obvious good law that would reduce suicides and violence in just a couple months time eh?

1 day, 16 hours ago on Conversation @



Lets see, lets start with you posting a video of a gun loading, aiming, and pulling its own trigger!

Next you will prove you are GOD by demonstrating how a gun is the root cause of avarice, greed, lust, religious intolerance, poverty, drug & alcohol abuse, gangs, lack of schooling, 1 momma w 8 kids & 8 different daddies etc, etc.....

Oh wait, guns are not the root cause of violence, hence anyone claiming GUN VIOLENCE is clinically insane or a pathological liar!

The actual subject is the failure of gun control mantra by the democrats and their inherent failure to actually address violence, not voter fraud.

So instead of your childish BS, when are you going to act like an adult and address your violent constituents and actually enforce the existing laws eh?

1 day, 16 hours ago on Conversation @


@johnbook1985 All you ignorant obamabagger pavement apes do is copy and paste, hence everything you post is  a lie!

2 days, 5 hours ago on Conversation @


The Mexican government reported that there were 31,532 homicides in the country between January and November of 2013 including 16,736 labeled as “intentional” murder and 14,796 as “negligent” manslaughter. 

Those figures along with other national crime statistics were released by the Mexican government’s Executive Secretariat of the National Public Security System (SESNSP) on Dec. 17.

Isnt it amazing how gun control of only the law abiding hasnt reduced violence by the bad guys....

Not really, shall we even begin to start posting how people in Mexico in defiance of the absurd laws, are now arming themselves, forming miltiias, and fighting off the cartels.......and the corrupt government who many times are one and the same as the cartels.;_ylt=AwrBT70TZs5TQkIA7CZXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTEzcmlocmY1BHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDNQRjb2xvA2JmMQR2dGlkA1ZJUDQ3NV8x

See, thats what happens when government oversteps their authority and disarms the law abiding civilians, a result repeated all the time!

2 days, 5 hours ago on Conversation @


Why is it, that the police, whose best response times are 4 minutes, avg 15-20 minutes can only solve 8.06% of all violent crimes committed on a yearly basis?

FBI UCR 2008 1.38 mil VCR (Violent Crime Reported) 45.1% solved to prosecution, 80% success rate.

But oh wait, we have to remember those on avg. for the last 10 years 73.95% of all violent crimes committed each year the government recognizes that were not reported USDOJ National Victimization report 2008. Oh yeah, Canada & England recognize this as well, funny how they come up with the same results eh!

So based on that (1.38 mil x 45.1%) x 80%) / 1.38 mil + 4.8 mil = 8.06% of the violent crimes committed are solved each year.

Oh thats right, someone planning and being prepared for the worst case is insane in your opinion. So why weren't you the one leading the health care reform for Obama? I mean since being prepared is insane, there really is no need for car, home, life or medical insurance right?

2 days, 5 hours ago on Conversation @


The courts have ruled the police have no duty to protect individuals:

Bowers v. DeVito, 686 F.2d 616 (7th Cir. 1982) (no federal constitutional requirement that police provide protection)

Calogrides v. Mobile, 475 So. 2d 560 (Ala. 1985); Cal Govt. Code 845 (no liability for failure to provide police protection)

Calogrides v. Mobile, 846 (no liability for failure to arrest or to retain arrested person in custody)

Davidson v. Westminster, 32 Cal.3d 197, 185, Cal. Rep. 252; 649 P.2d 894 (1982) (no liability for failure to provide police protection)

Stone v. State 106 Cal.App.3d 924, 165 Cal Rep. 339 (1980) (no liability for failure to provide police protection)

Morgan v. District of Columbia, 468 A.2d 1306 (D.C.App. 1983) (no liability for failure to provide police protection)

Warren v. District of Columbia, 444 A.2d 1 (D.C.App 1981) (no liability for failure to provide police protection)

Sapp v. Tallahassee, 348 So.2d 363 (Fla. App. 1st Dist.), cert. denied 354 So.2d 985 (Fla. 1977); Ill. Rec. Stat. 4-102 (no liability for failure to provide police protection)

Keane v. Chicago, 98 Ill. App.2d 460, 240 N.E.2d 321 (1st Dist. 1968) (no liability for failure to provide police protection)

Jamison v. Chicago, 48 Ill. App. 3d 567 (1st Dist. 1977) (no liability for failure to provide police protection)

Simpson’s Food Fair v. Evansville, 272 N.E.2d 871 (Ind. App.) (no liability for failure to provide police protection)

Silver v. Minneapolis, 170 N.W.2d 206 (Minn. 1969) (no liability for failure to provide police protection)

Wuetrich V. Delia, 155 N.J. Super. 324, 326, 382, A.2d 929, 930 cert. denied 77 N.J. 486, 391 A.2d 500 (1978) (no liability for failure to provide police protection)

Chapman v. Philadelphia, 290 Pa. Super. 281, 434 A.2d 753 (Penn. 1981) (no liability for failure to provide police protection)

Morris v. Musser, 84 Pa. Cmwth. 170, 478 A.2d 937 (1984) (no liability for failure to provide police protection)

“Law enforcement agencies and personnel have no duty to protect individuals from the criminal acts of others.” -Lynch vs North Carolina Department of Justice 1989

2 days, 5 hours ago on Conversation @


A history of gun control in the US amazing how violence always increased when gun control was implemented....hmmmm!

1.) The SodbustersThe United States was pretty well settled by 1885, with homicide rates that generally reflected the country of origin of the settlers. Most areas homicide rates were as low as 0.4 per 100,000 population, or 1 murder for 250,000 population. The exceptions were some notorious cities such as New York and San Francisco.

2.) Labor Wars The same labor problems that very nearly destroyed the British Monarchy visited the US. While the homicide rates stayed extremely low by today’s standards, murder rates were terrifyingly high by the standards of the time. The resulting gun control laws that were intended to disarm strikers and scabs hit everyone, and the homicide rate more than tripled.

3.)Sullivan’s Turnaround The labor wars took a breather in 1909 and 1910, with a slight decrease in both homicide and violent crime rates. There were well founded hopes for continuing decline in those rates but New York’s “Big Tim” Sullivan destroyed those hopes with New York’s Sullivan Law and the soaring crime rates that caused.

4.)Bathtub Gin and Gun Control. As a result of further labor problems, WWI, prohibition, and the rise of gangs such as Capone’s, murder and violent crime rates did not come down until 1934, when prohibition was a dead letter and cash strapped police departments stopped enforcing gun laws that should never have been passed in the first place.

5.)The Black Market Spike. During WWII the same gangs that fought for alcohol distribution rights fought to supply the black markets with everything from kerosene, meat, and catchup, to tobacco, and yes, booze. While law eforcement came down hard, it was still enough to cause a short term spike in murder rates.

6.) The Second American Gun Control Drive The second gun control drive effectively began in early 1963 and the results were immediately obvious. Homicide rates doubled in a decade, going from a rate of 4.6 per 100,000 population in 1963 to an official rate of 9.4 per 100,000 in 1973 and 9.8 in 1974. The apparent short term declines between 1973 and 1991 are a result of under-reporting crime totals, and not an actual decline. That decline did not come until…

7.) Relaxed gun laws and falling crime rates By 1991 the beneficial effects of Florida’s Concealed Carry Weapons permit system had become obvious. The two murders a day in Florida’s roadside rest areas had disappeared, violent crime and homicide rates were “falling off a cliff, and people sorely beset by violent crime were begging their legislators for relief. And for concealed carry.

8.) And now, with murder rates at a 100 year low And now, with a year and a half years of decline to add to the post 1993 decline, it appears the United States murder rate is at its lowest point since 1910. And it is obvious that the ruling faction in the Democratic Partei wants to drive murder rates back to where they were in the 1980s.

2 days, 6 hours ago on Conversation @



Yeah, see words have meanings, and complex sentences determine the meanings of words within the sentence, and all the diversionary BS you have spouted, will EVER change the rules and how a complex sentence works.

See, changing how those rules work, based on your based idiotic political beliefs just doesnt work that way, cause every single ruling in the world where a complex sentence was in the wording of the claim, would then have to now be re-reviewed as einstein wannabe YOU, claims it is now changed.

By the way dumfukk, the placement of the dependent clause first in a complex sentence does not make it the determinator in any fashion!

By the way, why is it that you realy so heavily, on a ruling (Miller 1939) where the defendent had already died, and his representation never showed to provide the evidence that a short barreled shotgun, was indeed an appropariate weapon as it had been used in WW1 and on may previous occasions for battle....hmmmm.

Funny how even when the government plays bully like that and does a one sided review with no counter arguement, how they managed to implement the two pronged test of what is an acceptable firearm, and geez, the AR15 and all similar rifles do indeed pass that test, its called IN COMMON USE!

Maybe you should go convince one of the leading criminalogist/constituional scholars in the US Professor Adam Winkler how that Miller ruling wont eventually lead to eliminating the aasault weapon BS laws, which he stated it will, capiche moron!

2 days, 6 hours ago on Conversation @



Obviously, you cant provide any proof other than your beliefs, hence not the one who cant understand the ruling, also not the one who cant prove the 2A is a collective right only moron, you are! 

2 days, 6 hours ago on Conversation @



So sad, you obfuscate all sorts of your beliefs based on midirective claims and provide no proof to  back it up. so lets use the 3 steps of CONSTITUTIONALITY and let you spew some more!

In analyzing the typical constitutional claim, there are a series of three steps that must be followed in a logical sequence.

1.The first step is to specify the nature of the constitutional claim. This includes the character of the government overreaching and the constitutional provision(s) allegedly violated (e.g., racial discrimination engaged in by the federal government in violation of the equal protection component of the Fifth Amendment Due Process Clause; state interference with a fundamental right in violation of the Fourteenth Amendment Due Process Clause; state discrimination against interstate commerce in violation of the dormant aspect of the Commerce Clause; state discrimination against out of state residents in violation of the Privileges and Immunities Clause of Article IV, etc.).

Oh wait, it must be SPECIFIC to the particular case, which can be thousands of different permutations, hence an all encompassing ruling is rather hard to get to a writ of ceritori, which nothing in the lower courts was…HMMMM!

2. The second step is to identify the abstract criteria used to evaluate a constitutional claim of the kind asserted. These abstract criteria are embodied in a "standard of review." A standard of review is a test created to distinguish between constitutional exercises of government power and unconstitutional exercises of government power. The test identifies the dividing line between the constitutionally acceptable and the unconstitutional. If the government action passes scrutiny under the standard of review, the government has respected the limitations placed on its authority by the Constitution. The standard of review may also be referred to as the "level of scrutiny," the "test" or the "standard." The standard of review must be determined before a court can consider the facts of a particular case. A court at this stage is identifying general constitutional principles which it will use to resolve a case of the type it has before it. The selection of a standard of review is a critical stage in constitutional analysis and is often a subject of disagreement between the parties to the action because the standard selected can often make the difference between victory and defeat. The party raising the constitutional claim will try and present arguments for the strictest standard of review available under the circumstances in order to make it difficult for the government to justify its action. The government, by contrast, will try and present arguments for the most lenient level of scrutiny available under the circumstances so that its burden of justification is much lighter.

Oh wait, a lower court, that is an obvious BIAS against the 2A would NEVER make a decision based on PERSONAL BELIEFS now would they, oh hundreds of examples already exist!

3. The third step is to apply the standard of review to the particular facts of the case. This may involve an analysis of the government's reasons for its action, including the nature of the problem the government is trying to solve, what the government hopes to achieve by the solution it has devised and the connection between what the government is trying to achieve (the ends) and what it has done (the means). In general, the sounder the connection between the governmental ends and means, the more likely a court will be to find the government has acted in a constitutional manner.

So the GOVERNMENT is verify that its actions were an valid logical attempt to solve a problem by its actions…that’s ok, so where again is a law, that doesn’t affect the actual criminals, solve any alleged problem?

2 days, 6 hours ago on Conversation @



Can the militia exist without the individual first existing, yes or no moron!

2 days, 6 hours ago on Conversation @



You are being obtuse MORON!

Why is it all anti gunterds have a rabid aversion to enforcing the existing laws....oh thats right, it doesnt increase useless as teets on a boar hogs gun control laws that only affect the law abiding, hence it is a lame diversionary tactic of the ingorant, hate filled intolerant obamabagger anti gunterds!

They do this diversionary tact because 30% of the population, not white, commits 87% of all violent crimes, and votes predominantly democrat....hmmmm......makes democrats the most violent portion of our society.

So we understand why democrats dont REALLY want to address violence, they are the problem!

Thanks yet again for demonstrating and reinforcing that democrats dont really want to do anything about actual violence, they just want to stomp their feet, squeal in petulent rage and go WAAAAAHH DATS NOT FWAIR USING FWACTS I CANT PWOVE WONG WAAAAAAH!

2 days, 6 hours ago on Conversation @



W Eugene Hollon, authored a review of government data shows over 1870-1885 all the wildest west towns reviewing government death data and wow, only 45 deaths for a 1 per 100k death rate.

Then we review FBI UCR database in 2008 and we see gun ban paradises Chicago 12.3 deaths per 100k people, NYC 4.3 deaths per 100k people, Washington D.C. 23.2 deaths per 100k people, 

Wow, funny how the gun ban paradises are so much more violent than the wild west eh? Just proves reality is entirely different than your drug induced fantasies based on dime store novels and Hollywood.

Geez, lets get into the context of what was, see all the cowboys and travelers, came to towns because thats where the saloons, the gambling, the pretty saloon girls, the entertainment of the day were located at!

Some towns had people hang their guns up when they came to town becuase they were going to DRINK and get STUPID.

Oh wait, no one has ever said drinking and handling a gu_n is smart, hmmmm.

But then they didnt take their guns away, they just requested by the facts, they not carry while they were PARTYING.

In fact, that led directly to CONCEALED CARRY, the hideout gun, but hey, such facts are lost on simpletons!

Those country cops didnt ban certain types of guns, they didnt have registrations, they didnt do all that extra BS regulatory bullying that anti guntards love to do today.

We even have evidence that gun control then, didnt work either, otherwise how did the OK Corral occur in a hang your guns up town eh?

Get a clue moron!

2 days, 6 hours ago on Conversation @



And finally, a late-17th century comparison between the behavior of a large collection of seahorses and well-regulated soldiers:

One of the Seamen that had formerly made a Greenland Voyage for Whale-Fishing, told us that in that country he had seen very great Troops of those Sea-Horses ranging upon Land, sometimes three or four hundred in a Troop: Their great desire, he says, is to roost themselves on Land in the Warm Sun; and Whilst they sleep, they apppoint one to stand Centinel, and watch a certain time; and when that time's expir'd, another takes his place of Watching, and the first Centinel goes to sleep, &c. observing the strict Discipline, as a Body of Well-regulated Troops 
        --- (Letters written from New-England, A. D. 1686. P. 47, John Dutton (1867))

The quoted passages support the idea that a well-regulated militia was synonymous with one that was thoroughly trained and disciplined, and as a result, well-functioning. That description fits most closely with the "to put in good order" definition supplied by the Random House dictionary. The Oxford dictionary's definition also appears to fit if one considers discipline in a military context to include or imply well-trained.

2 days, 13 hours ago on Conversation @



But Dr Sir I am Afraid it would blunt the keen edge they have at present which might be keept sharp for the Shawnese &c: I am convinced it would be Attended by considerable desertions. And perhaps raise a Spirit of Discontent not easily Queld amongst the best regulated troops, but much more so amongst men unused to the Yoak of Military Discipline.
      --- Letter from Colonel William Fleming to Col. Adam Stephen, Oct 8, 1774, pp. 237-8. (Documentary History of Dunmore's War, 1774, Wisconsin historical society, pub. (1905))

2 days, 13 hours ago on Conversation @



I am unacquainted with the extent of your works, and consequently ignorant of the number or men necessary to man them. If your present numbers should be insufficient for that purpose, I would then by all means advise your making up the deficiency out of the best regulated militia that can be got.
      --- George Washington (The Writings of George Washington, pp. 503-4, (G.P. Putnam & Sons, pub.)(1889))

2 days, 13 hours ago on Conversation @



In the passage that follows, do you think the U.S. government was concerned because the Creek Indians' tribal regulations were superior to those of the Wabash or was it because they represented a better trained and disciplined fighting force?

That the strength of the Wabash Indians who were principally the object of the resolve of the 21st of July 1787, and the strength of the Creek Indians is very different. That the said Creeks are not only greatly superior in numbers but are more united, better regulated, and headed by a man whose talents appear to have fixed him in their confidence. That from the view of the object your Secretary has been able to take he conceives that the only effectual mode of acting against the said Creeks in case they should persist in their hostilities would be by making an invasion of their country with a powerful body of well regulated troopsalways ready to combat and able to defeat any combination of force the said Creeks could oppose and to destroy their towns and provisions. 
      --- Saturday, December 13, 1777.

2 days, 13 hours ago on Conversation @



This quote from the Journals of the Continental Congress, 1774-1789 also conveys the meaning of well regulated:

Resolved , That this appointment be conferred on experienced and vigilant general officers, who are acquainted with whatever relates to the general economy, manoeuvres and discipline of a well regulated army. 
      --- Saturday, December 13, 1777.

2 days, 13 hours ago on Conversation @



We can begin to deduce what well-regulated meant from Alexander Hamilton's words in Federalist Paper No. 29:

The project of disciplining all the militia of the United States is as futile as it would be injurious if it were capable of being carried into execution. A tolerable expertness in military movements is a business that requires time and practice. It is not a day, nor a week nor even a month, that will suffice for the attainment of it. To oblige the great body of the yeomanry and of the other classes of the citizens to be under arms for the purpose of going through military exercises and evolutions, as often as might be necessary to acquire the degree of perfection which would entitle them to the character of a well regulated militia, would be a real grievance to the people and a serious public inconvenience and loss. 
      --- The Federalist Papers, No. 29.

Hamilton indicates a well-regulated militia is a state of preparedness obtained after rigorous and persistent training. Note the use of 'disciplining' which indicates discipline could be synonymous with well-trained.

2 days, 13 hours ago on Conversation @



You obviously never passed basic english comprehension and did not graduate high school either, topped off with your inherent natural born pathological liar as well BECAUSE THE DEPENDENT CLAUSE NEVER HAS AND NEVER WILL DICTATE THE MEANING OF A COMPLEX SENTENCE, END OF STORY!

Still waiting for you to prove the militia existed before the armed indivudal and their pre-existing individual rights....oh wait, negative IQ anti gunterds never prove anything they claim, my bad!

Oh wait, your the anti gunterd, who claims the BOR is a control on the citizens rights, when it has been since its inception, a control of the government powers, prove otherwise MORON!

Heller was a ruling on the consitutionality of the gun ban, not the individual right (THAT WAS 8 to 1 MORON)

2 days, 13 hours ago on Conversation @


Hmmm, oh wait, does the BATF & the NICS background check ever catch a bad guy using a fake identification, why no they don’t Mr Steve, hmmmm.

Man, lots govt. data and facts steve intentionally ignores about gun dealers yet it claims they are INTENTIONALLY the major source of firearms, yet the BATF doesn’t catch or stop fake id or straw buyers, hmmm.

In fact the CBS News 3/21/2001 report showed 100% of undercover congressional investigators using fake IDs were able to skirt mandatory background checks and purchase guns in all of the five states where they tried.

The General Accounting Office study concluded that the national background check system for purchasing guns "cannot ensure that the prospective purchaser is not a felon."

2 days, 17 hours ago on Conversation @


This means that in 2010 14,409,616 background checks so 

2,977,559 / 17,387,175 = .171 or 17.1%, shows 83.9% of all background checks that mattered, went through the system

So 50% of 2,977,559 = 1,488,780 bad guys had someone straw buy for them in 2010.

Oh wait, we see that the actual # of firearms purchased per background check via NICS & NSSF data average at .38 guns per each background check between 1997-2011 (5,459,240 purchased in 2010).

That means 1,488,780 x .38 = 565,736 firearms were sold to straw buyers in 2010 alone.

Since 17.1% of sales didn't go through NICS, safe to assume that 83.9% of the sales to straw buyers didn't get caught by the background check as they only prosecuted 26 straw buyers whom they caught AFTER the fact, one can assume that rate applies. 

That means 565,736 x .839% = 474,653 firearms were sold from licensed dealers to straw buyers.

Oh wait, does the BATF allow civilians access to use the NICS for private sales, oh wait, they don’t do they, hmmmm!

So since .097% of dealers (67 in 2012) x 4 years (time needed to audit all dealers)= 248 bad dealers = 474,653 /248 dealers = each dealer sold 1,914 guns each illegally, intentionally, 5.25 guns per day if open 365 days a year, really?

2 days, 17 hours ago on Conversation @


Claims the massive majority of guns are INTENTIONALLY sold by gun dealers.

Mar 2013 NICS Operations report shows 2012 that of 13,100 gun dealers audited in 2012 67 out of 69,000 regular gun stores had their licenses revoked = .097%.

Mar 2013 NICS Operations shows 5 year rotational schedule at current IOI ATF agent staffing, around 4 years if they increased their staffing by the 131 IOI's as per BATF budget review. Google justice dot gov/oig/reports/2013/e1305 dot pdf

In Minnesota alone

St. Paul:           

25 IOI in office,            

52 IOI auditors claimed needed,            

40,500 available IOI inspection hours,  

6634 FFL's in division, 

1327 ffl's audited,            

40 hrs average per audited FFL's, 53080          

 (12,580.00) hours needed to meet audit schedule / 1,520 hours per year available per IOI auditor = 12,580/1,520 = 8.27 auditors needed (17 less than requested)

Avg. hours needed per all audits = 49.8 hrs so 

(131 IOI auditors x 1,520 hrs) /49.8  = increased # of gun dealers audited each year = 3,998 more dealers per year.

13,100 + 3,998 = 17,098 so 69,000/17,098 = 4.035 years, hmmmm

Such inconsistency a government agency stating they need more than they actually do.

That means out of 25 BATF offices, there are 5 offices that are worse off than St Paul MN in getting their job done

USDOJ Firearms use by Offenders Nov 2001 shows 80% of guns acquired by unlicensed means = (50% from theft/50% from straw buys).

USDOJ Background Checks & Firearm Transfer report 2008 shows the % of bad guys attempting to buy from a licensed source had reduced by 68% since 1997.

Simple math shows a 68% reduction means bad guys attempting to buy from a retails store 12% x (1.00-.68%) = 3.64% & gun shows 2% x (1.00-.68%) = .64%.

NICS Operations report shows that in 2010 139,651 bad guys rejected at both state & federal levels.

Simple math shows as 139,651 = 4.48% of bad guys rejected so 139,651/4.48 = 1% x 100 - (139,651) = total checks not performed each year because the bad guys INTENTIONALLY don’t attempt to buy from a licensed source = 2,977,559.

2 days, 17 hours ago on Conversation @


Did a review, dug up the budgets for the BATF since 1998, a 138% increase in budget, amazing how govt. data proves old smelly wrong, the fact she yanked her replies is also proof of that.

The only BUDGET cuts that were threated, were DIRECTED specifically, at the failed Project Gun Runner programs that were identified as NOT being a valid project as shown by the way the Fast & Furious programs were run. 

So reality is the BATF poor performance on that  nasty little  intentional screwup caused their own heartburn, so sad!

BATF Budget           (Millions)

2012            1,200

2011            1,158

2010            1,158

2009            1,078

2008            1,011

2007            988.1

2006            935.8

2005            882.5

2004            827.3

2003            826.8

2002            823.3

2001            771.1

2000            604.6

1999            557.6

1998            502.3

2 days, 17 hours ago on Conversation @


“The reason the ATF doesn’t make it a high priority to target people who attempt to buy a gun from the gun dealer is they spend the majority of their time targeting violent offenders who use guns illegally,” said Mike Brouchard, the former assistant director for field operations of the ATF. “By taking that person and arresting them it has little to no impact on violent crime.”

2 days, 17 hours ago on Conversation @


So waiting for you antis to show how maybe saving one injury from bad guys a year at a cost of over $330 mil a year is justifiable!      

So in 2012-2013 the FBI spent over $68 million on salaries 2-1, and shows an increase of $100 million in salaries and benefits for expansion to support the massive increases in NICS transactions run in 2014!

So we see that us $168 million in salaries, but wait, that doesn’t cover the entire NICS operations cost to tax payers.

See, 13 States contact only state, 7 states contact state for handgun & FBI for long guns (80% of all guns purchased are handguns) and the remainder use NICS for both handguns and long guns.

That means roughly that $168 million (just in salaries and benefits) are being spent in 2014 for 30 states operations of the NICS…hmmm!

So there must be a way to figure out what cost there is accrued in the states who don’t use the NICS, yeah, we can.

Can anyone claim government is any more efficient in those 20 states than it is in the 30 states using the federal NICS, no, didn’t think so!

In 2012 there were 8,725,425 million background checks processed by federal (1,143,049 by e-check)

10,866,878 transactions were processed by state users

So lets see $168 mil/30 states = $5.6 mil average cost per state using federal NICS

20 states x $5.6 mil =  $112 mil cost for 20 states not using federal NICS!

Oh wait, that is only $280 mil cost to tax payers to run the NICS for both federal & states…hmmmm.

How much does it cost to run all the facilities, and support functions of their daily operations….

Amazing how one can easily show that taxpayers foot the bill of $330 million a year for  NICS, and only show maybe 1 or 2 injuries prevented each year, WOW ISNT THAT SUCH A GREAT THING, well, maybe to a moron socialist it is!

2 days, 17 hours ago on Conversation @


Then of course one must also look at how many people the background check supposedly saves.

Since physically stopping a person from acquiring a gun, is only accomplished by putting them in jail, one only has to work from the avg number of incidents a gun is used by a bad guy in a crime and calculate against the number of bad guys actually put away!

Of course you anti guntards can prove that people stop trying to lie, do evil by comparing the 4.48% of bad guys who are supposedly stopped from buying a gun results in the well publicized and proven human trait of giving up, as you anti guntards have clearly demonstrated how you give up your pathological lies, hate and ridicule after being stopped in oh so many of your gun control anti rights efforts!

In 2010 using NICS, FBI, USDOJ, Police Firearm Dishcharge reports, CDC data, we see.....

1.248 mil violent crimes reported, 74.65% not reported, 322,000 involved a gun, 85% of incidents no shots fired, 15% of shots fired hit target 1 in 7 injuries fatal.

Which if one calculates out the multiple USDOJ studies showing that over 80% of all violent crimes are committed by career criminals, gang members, crazies & domestic
violence abusers..we see the following.

(total successfully prosecuted by BATF in 2010) 

44 x 15% = 6.6 total people involved with shots fired

6.6 x 15% = 1 person hit by shots fired

1 x 20% = .2 people hit by shots fired by non criminals, 

                    .8 people hit by shots fired by bad guys

Wow, you do realize that the cost of the near 3,000 plus people employed by BATF, FBI and state agencies for background check process cost the US over $300 million each year, dang.

So explain again how that $330 mil + in background checks is justifiable to save maybe just 1 or 2 injuries per year?

2 days, 17 hours ago on Conversation @


Oh wait, here are actual government NICS Operations reports on how many bad guys were actually put into jail!

2010, 44 successfully prosecuted out of 139,651 total rejections

2009, 32 successfully prosecuted out of 129,357 total rejections

2008, 31 successfully prosecuted out of 135,933 total rejections

2007, 39 successfully prosecuted out of 128,277 total rejections

2006, 62 successfully prosecuted out of 134,442 total rejections

2 days, 17 hours ago on Conversation @


Oh darn, whats this, page 5, you should read it.

Looking at just the Federal background checks, (because only 55% of states use the federal system) we see the following!

The DENI Branch screened 76,142 NICS denials received from the FBI during 2010, and referred 4,732 denials (approximately 6%) within the established guidelines to field divisions. The referred cases were made up of 2,265 delayed denials (3% of all denials) and 2,467 standard denials (over 3%). 

The remaining denials (71,410, or nearly 94%) did not meet referral guidelines or were overturned or canceled.

71,410/76,142  = 93.8% initial denials were overturned or canceled.

You know that means that they werent actually bad guys, hmmmm, darn.

So since this range is rather consistent, explain again anti gunterds how many people are actually saved by the background checks?

2 days, 17 hours ago on Conversation @


What’s this, a report on BATF inspections of 13,100 of the existing gun dealers, man, the NRA sure stops them from doing their jobs eh, uh, no apparently not!

So 69,000 gun stores 67 licenses revoked = 67/69,000 = .000097 = .097% (that’s less than 1/10th of a % for you math illiterates)

Wow, thought you anti gunterds claimed all these gun stores were intentionally selling guns illegally, uh if they were, why then are the BATF not shutting down more than these on an annual basis sweety!

2 days, 17 hours ago on Conversation @



Unfortunately for the anti gunutters, the only version of the second amendment ratified by the states, is the 1 comma version.

“A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.”

Maybe you can explain how for the entire history of English language, that the independent clause, a complete sentence capable of conveying a clear meaning, and must first exist for a dependent clause to have meaning, has always set the meaning of the complex sentence. (“the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed”)

Yet some now infer the dependent clause, an incomplete sentence, incapable of conveying a clear meaning (A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State) is now the determinator of the complex sentence meaning and history and English scholars have all been wrong throughout the history of written English. Have at it, but warn us when Hades will be freezing over for you actually having data to support your claim.

Lets see, have you removed the 30 plus references from the congressional writings 1774-1789 & the federalist papers showing well regulated as to meaning well trained in the arts of war? Much less all those dictionaries that say the same thing? No, you haven’t. Reference Karpeles Museum, CA.

So reality is, the only regulation that really is allowed by the govt., is to the unorganized militia. But as govt. is responsible for the call up and muster of the unorganized militia, we see they are consistent in their failure to do their jobs in not doing so.

Maybe you removed that original draft of what became the second amendment. You know, the one that was clearly written as a collective right, but then was changed to what exists today.

original proposed draft 
the right to keep and bear arms 
of the 
(17 TH of 20 amendments) on display at the Karpeles Manuscript Library 
Santa Ana, California

"That the people have a right to keep and bear arms; that a well regulated Militia composed of the body of the people trained to arms is the proper, natural and safe defense of a free State. That standing armies in time of peace are dangerous to liberty, and therefore ought to be avoided as far as the circumstances and protection of the community will admit; and that in all cases the military should be under strict subordination to and governed by the civil power."

Why did our founding fathers change the amendment draft if it was what they wanted?

Oh that’s right, actions do speak louder than words. Ref Karpeles Museum, CA again.

Then of course, here is the logic failure the anti’s always have. They always fail to prove, that the militia existed before the armed individual.

The anti’s always fail to prove that a collective right can exist without the individual right first existing as how does a collective begin, oh that’s right, pre-existing individuals come together to form said collective, DOOOHH!

Funny how all that was before the 2008 rulings eh MORON!

2 days, 18 hours ago on Conversation @



The one that they found wasnt working and shut down with specific orders not to revive it, that tell!

2 days, 18 hours ago on Conversation @




Otherwise the Mexican government would have allow the BATF in to trace ALL THE GUNS MORON!

Then of course all the OTHER GUNS THE GOVERNMENT SENT that are obviously utrning up in cartels hands because the MEXICAN GOVERNMENT IS MORE CORRUPT THAN A CHICAGO POLITICIAN!

Dont forget about the TIME TO CRIME RATE of those arms traced is near 12 YEARS.

Still waiting on you obamabaggers to demand the Mexican Army give up the NOW over 500,000 weapons in that armory, that they refuse to turn over for trace....

Funny how when reality is looked at, you have a hard time proving more than 4% of the weapons are traced back to gun shops, especially when you idiots refuse to admit the BATF never catches anyone using a fake id to begin with!

You were saying MORON!

2 days, 18 hours ago on Conversation @



BATF prosecutes less than 1% of the 2.056 mil rejected since 1997.

BATF doesn’t do anything about the 95.52% of bad guys (21 mil + since 1997) who don’t even try to buy from a licensed source to begin with.

BATF doesn’t allow civilians access to NICS for background checks on private sales.

BATF out of 139,651 rejected in 2010 only prosecuted 44, 26 straw buyers, 11 felons, 7 domestic violence abusers, no crazies.

BATF let over 297,577 straw buyers pass the background check and buy over 446,363 guns in 2010 (over 2.23 mil+ since 1997)

Govt. refused to resource to input the mentally ill & felons into NICS database with only 4.865 mil severely mentally ill and felons in NICS database as of Mar 2013 while there are over 31.793 mil of both in the US.

Govt. refuses to resource people and moneys to pursue the 1.043 mil + people wanted on open felony warrant of whom 50% are probably severely mentally ill as are 50% of current 2.7 mil prisoners.

Man them are some nasty loopholes the government & BATF have created.

When are you lefties going to fix these BATF & Govt. loopholes instead of making more useless laws that per Haynes vs. US 390, 85, 1968 & Freed vs US 401, 601, 1971 which affirm the 5th amendment right of no self incrimination, makes 85% of all gun control laws not applicable as a prosecutable charge eh?

You know, licenses, registrations, background checks etc, etc, etc...all require someone to IDENTIFY THEMSELVES.

So explain again how a law, you cant punish a bad guy with, will reduce violence by said bad guy eh?

Oh thats right, you lefties will wave your magic fairy wand and sprinkle your magic fairy dust and wish it to happen, LOL!

2 days, 18 hours ago on Conversation @



“The reason the ATF doesn’t make it a high priority to target people who attempt to buy a gun from the gun dealer is they spend the majority of their time targeting violent offenders who use guns illegally,” said Mike Brouchard, the former assistant director for field operations of the ATF. “By taking that person and arresting them it has little to no impact on violent crime.”

2 days, 18 hours ago on Conversation @


Following are the key passages from the cable, drafted on Nov. 30, 2009, which reveals that the ultimate destination of an assault weapon found at a crime scene — one of a batch of more than 1,000 rifles shipped via the DCS program — was the “government” in the Mexican state of Michoacan.

Blue lantern coordinators [who are charged monitoring DCS weapons shipments] requested that Poloff [political officers] investigate the circumstances surrounding the recovery of an U.S. licensed AR-15 rifle from a Mexican crime scene and substantiate the chain of custody from the supplier to the end user. The investigative branch of the Mexican Attorney General (PGR CENAPI) used E-trace to determine that the last legal point of sale was [U.S.-based gun manufacturer] Bushmaster International, LLC. Realizing that the recovered weapon was part of a USG [U.S. government] licensed [DCS] sale, Bushmaster notified the State Department.

… This investigation tracked the chain of custody for the weapon through the following entities: the U.S. supplier, the U.S. manufacture representative in Mexico, the Mexican customs-broker, the Mexican Army, and the State Government of Michoacan.

…. On the basis of this and similar cases, [emphasis added] it is not evident that government officials at the state [level in Mexico] apply strict enforcement measures to track the chain of custody of weapons once SEDENA [Mexico's Secretariat of National Defense, which oversees the Army] transfers them from its custody to the custody of state officials. Given the lack of accountability for weapons once they arrive at the state level, U.S. law enforcement agencies have fair reason to worry that a number of weapons simply "disappear.”

… Post believes both the USG and the GOM [government of Mexico] need to take a more systematic approach to tracking weapon transfers to the state level and beyond to the final end user. We support the Blue Lantern Coordinator's proposal that his office bundle, according to region, the cases of firearms recovered from crime scenes. Mission Mexico's ICE and ATF Attaches would then approach the Mexico Attorney General PGR's International Relations Office with a list of the serial numbers of confiscated weapons that had been transferred to state authorities and request a fuller accounting for how these weapons ended up in the hands of criminals. …

And yet another case of DCS weapons shipments coming under the scrutiny of State Department investigators is revealed in a separate set of U.S. Embassy cables made public by WikiLeaks.

In one of those cables, released on April 4, the State Department’s Defense Trade Controls Compliance office orders a review of a shipment of rifles and ammunition “of significantly heavy caliber” that had been directed to “the presidential guard, or Estado Mayor Presidencial [emphasis added].”

The cable notes that the Estado Mayor “has never previously been party to a U.S. export license for firearms or ammunition.”

“This check is to confirm receipt of these defense articles and verify security of the items,” the cable states.

However, another State Department cable released by WikiLeaks on Feb. 21 of this year points out that “a mid-level Mexican Army major was arrested in late December 2008 for assisting drug traffickers and providing them with limited information about the activities and travel plans of Mexican President Felipe Calderon.”

That Mexican Army major, according to the State Department cable, had been “assigned to the Estado Mayor [emphasis added] … the unit responsible for protecting Mexico's president, to secure the periphery around the president's location” — and the same unit that had acquired the high-powered ammunition through the DCS program.

Narco News queried officials with several think tanks in Washington, D.C., who have expertise in the arms trade or organized crime in Mexico, to get their read on DCS arms diversions in Mexico.

Andrew Selee, director of the Wilson Center’s Mexico Institute, was asked if he believed that the diversion of licensed U.S. arms sales to criminal elements in Mexico is a major problem.

His response: “It’s an intriguing point.”

3 days, 4 hours ago on Conversation @


As part of its Fast and Furious operation, launched in October 2009, some 2,000 or more firearms illegally purchased in the U.S. were allegedly allowed to “walk” (or be smuggled under ATF’s watch) across the border in a supposed effort by the federal law enforcement agency to target the kingpins behind Mexico’s gun-running enterprises, ATF whistleblowers contend.

This flood of weapons, including high-powered assault rifles and even military-grade munitions, coursing into Mexico in fiscal 2008 and fiscal 2009 via the DCS program and ATF’s Fast and Furious seems to have been, in part, the catalyst for a huge spike in narco-related bloodshed in the country.

According to a report issued in February of this year by the Trans-Border Institute at the University of San Diego, narco-trafficking-related homicides in Mexico jumped from 2,826 in 2007 to 6,837 in 2008, and spiked again in 2009, hitting a record 9,614. In 2010, the homicide mark shot up to 15,273.

Those three years (2008-2010) account for the bulk of the nearly 40,000 drug-war murders since President Felipe Calderon of Mexico declared his war on the “cartels” in late 2006 and subsequently inserted the Mexican military into that battle.

WikiLeaks cables

It is clear that most of the guns allowed to cross the border under ATF’s Fast and Furious operation went directly into the hands of criminals, given those guns were purchased as part of criminal conspiracies being tracked by ATF.

However, even though serious narco-corruption exists within law enforcement and the military in Mexico (the very parties who are the end-users of legally imported weapons), the path that DCS arms shipment diversions follow to the criminal world remains illusive.

The whistleblower Web site WikiLeaks, though, recently released a State Department cable, drafted in November 2009, that sheds some light on how these diversions seem to be carried out. 

But first, it’s important to understand the path of DCS weapons shipped to Mexico.

Jason Greer, public affairs officer for the Bureau of Political-Military Affairs at the Department of State, told Narco News previously that “all firearms licenses approved by [the State Department] for commercial resale in Mexico are exported to the Ministry of Defense (MOD), Mexico.”

Greer added:

The MOD is the import authority for firearms and is also responsible for licensing of Mexican firearms dealers. Upon receipt of the firearms, the MOD transfers the firearms to the end-user authorized on the [State Department-issued] export license. 

The Mexican Ministry of Defense, of course, oversees the Mexican military. In fact, a reading of Mexico’s firearms law reveals that the Defense Ministry has a monopoly on approving and overseeing all licenses, sales, transport and storage of arms and munitions in Mexico, whether for private-sector players or other government units — including municipal, state and federal law enforcement units.

So, if you are a smart narco-trafficker, and they are smart, it might pay to spread some money and influence around Mexico’s Ministry of Defense, or to have your people inside the organizations that are the ultimate recipients of the weapons (such as Mexico’s local, state and federal security forces) to assure the necessary diversion of firearms to your cause.

And it is that latter scenario that the State Department cable released by WikiLeaks earlier this month reveals is likely the scenario in play. Essentially, the cable establishes state-level government employees, such as the police — many of whom are on the payrolls of narco-trafficking organizations — as the weak link in the DCS chain.

3 days, 4 hours ago on Conversation @


Felipe Calderón's Drug War Has Become Hot Market for U.S. Arms Trade

By: Bill Conroy


" The dollar value of U.S. private-sector weapons shipments to Mexico in fiscal year 2009 exceeded the value of private arms shipments to two other major conflict regions elsewhere in the world, Iraq and Afghanistan, and even outpaced the value of arms shipped to one of the United States’ staunchest allies, Israel.
U.S. private-sector suppliers shipped a total of $177 million worth of defense articles — which includes items like military aircraft, firearms and explosives — to Mexico in fiscal 2009, which ended Sept. 30 of that year.

By comparison, over the same period, private arms companies in the U.S. shipped $40 million worth of weapons to Afghanistan; $126 million to Iraq; and $131 million to Israel.

In fact, Colombia, the source of most of the world’s cocaine and a major battlefront in the so-called war on drugs, received only $30 million in private-sector arms shipments from the U.S. in fiscal 2009.

The onslaught of weapons that hit Mexico in fiscal 2009 via these legal commercial exports is multiplied even further by the thousands of additional illegal weapons that the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) allegedly allowed to cross the border into Mexico, unchecked, as part of what appears to be a seriously flawed operation known as Fast and Furious — which was launched in October 2009.

This double whammy of deadly firepower pouring into Mexico through these U.S.-sanctioned programs also coincides with a major spike in Mexico’s murder rate over the same period.

The revelation of Mexico’s emergence as a leading market for the private-sector arms trade in fiscal 2009 surfaced after an examination of the most recently available figures for the State Department program that oversees foreign arms sales by U.S. companies.

Under that program, the U.S. State Department requires private companies in the United States to obtain an export license in order to sell defense hardware or services to foreign purchasers — which include both government units and private buyers in other countries. 

These arms deals are known as Direct Commercial Sales (DCS). 

Each year, the State Department issues a report tallying the volume and dollar amount of DCS items approved for export and shipped — with the most recent report covering fiscal 2009.

Narco News reported in March 2009 that the deadliest of the weapons now in the hands of criminal groups in Mexico, particularly along the U.S. border, by any reasonable standard of an analysis of the facts, appear to be getting into that nation through perfectly legal private-sector arms exports authorized under programs such as DCS.

Between 2005 and 2009, nearly $60 billion worth of U.S. defense articles were exported globally by U.S. private companies via the DCS program, according to a recent Government Accountability Office (GAO) report.

In addition to the $177 million in defense hardware shipped by private U.S. companies to Mexico in fiscal 2009, some $204 million in arms were shipped to Mexico in fiscal year 2008, according to DCS data compiled by the State Department. Now, war zones like Iraq and Afghanistan dwarfed Mexico in terms of DCS arms shipments in fiscal 2008, with a total of $3.8 billion collectively, but in terms of actual DCS arms shipments in fiscal 2009, according to the State Department data, Mexico beat out both of them — as private-sector arms shipments to Iraq and Afghanistan fell off sharply.

At the same time that hundreds of millions of dollars in legal arms shipments were crossing the border into Mexico though the DCS program, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, or the ATF, allegedly was allowing thousands of illegally purchased firearms to be smuggled into Mexico by warring narco-trafficking organizations.

3 days, 4 hours ago on Conversation @


Geez, another pile of made up ka ka and lies, you are such a good widdle obamabagger pavement ape drone repeating the lie of your demon spawn master george soros!

3 days, 4 hours ago on Conversation @


Lets see 311 murders, 65 using firearm in 1996 65/311 = 20.9%
Lets see 244 murders, 44 using firearm in 2011 40/244 = 16.39%

Amazing how when one digs into the details, the ACTUAL TREND for reduction in killings using a firearm is rather puny!

Yet the number of assaults with weapons keeps rising, hmmmm. Sure appears that the level of violence isnt being reduced, but just luck of the draw some of those arent killings, so sad.

Oh and as noted in GOVT. and recorded history, there was indeed a NASTY gang war going on in the 1980's to early 2000's. Has that ended matey, oh yes, it has hasnt it.

Oh whats this page #31,Homicide in Australia: 2007–08 National Homicide Monitoring Program annual report %7b89DEDC2D-3349-457C-9B3A-9AD9DAFA7256%7dmr13_004.pdf

"............. The majority of firearms used in homicides were unregistered and/or unlicensed" hmmm, such a consistent trend all over the world that the bad guys dont obey the law to begin with!

All the while also refusing to acknowledge the effect of the baby boomers age subgroup as it affects crime rates. Geez, the Aussies had the Baby Boomers (born 1947-1964) also didn’t you, yeah you did!

Criminologists the world over all agree the most active criminal ages are 15-24 and 25-34, then the criminal activity declines the older a subgroup gets. Amazing how that actually mirrors identically the trend in murders DECREASING, a trend that Australian government shows began occurring back in the mid 1980's and continues to this day. Not to mention the ending of those gang turf battles.

Hence yet again, no valid proof that gun control had anything relevant to causing that reduction in murders., a near 42% drop in actual murders using a firearm in the US versus a 39% drop in murders using a firearm in Australia. 

Uh dude, there is no statistical difference is there, geez shuckey darn! 

Yet again proof that less firearms doesn’t equal less violence, much less more guns equal more violence BS.

You were saying?

3 months, 3 weeks ago on Conversation @


By the way, what is a country, with gun bans suicide rate vs the US? Australia has 1/100th of our firearms, so they should have 1/100th of our suicide rate, uh dude, their 2010 suicide rate is 11.14 per 100k people.

What about murders, lets compare that as well.

1996 Australia 1.7 murders per 100k people 2011 1.08 murders per 100k people a -36.5% reduction

1996 US 7.4 murders per 100k people 2011 4.7 murders per 100k people a -36.5% reduction.

How is it again, that a country with a 42% increase in civilian firearm ownership and 100 times more firearms in law abiding civilian hands than Australia, have the same reduction in murders as they did?

Now if one breaks it down into weapons used if you take and look at the normal trend, one see's Australia reduction in murder by illegal use of firearms only reduced -4.41% from 1996 to 2011, the US from 1996 to 2011 was reduced  -26.5%.

Oh wait, you forgot to mention the increases in weapons being used to commit murders or VIOLENT CRIME which the Australian government acknowledges in their reports, and reflect that indeed as noted, more WEAPONS and more KNIVES are being used to commit a crime REPLACING the use of a firearm. 

But hey dont let govt. FACTS get in the way of your fantasy. Since you already have a functioning link to the Australian crime database, you can try and refute their data again!

"A Transcript of the Police Interview With Martin Bryant" http : // loveforlife . com . au / content / 07 / 10 / 30 / transcript-police-interview-martin-bryant

Funny, how even before 1996, you needed a LICENSE to purchase a firearm, yet the Port Arthur killer didnt have one, yet that is somehow the LAW ABIDING GUN OWNERS FAULT AGAIN EH?

So without the Port Arthur killings using a firearm only 65 occurred in 1996, which was 40 in 2011, wow thats impressive, NOT.

Geez, didnt the Port Author killings occur in 1996 making a spike in their killings, yeah it did. 

So is it a true reflection upon normal crime trends to add that anomaly/spike into the trends as a rational comparison to see what effect a law had on a result, no it isnt!

See that is where the gun banners like to use % to look impressive and quote the % of firearms used in murders has dropped SO DRAMATICALLy.

3 months, 3 weeks ago on Conversation @


England -rates per 100k people

1898 1.0 murder rate no gun control

1997 1.3 murder rate, strict gun control implemented, 820 VCR

2011 1.0 murder rate 1,5867 VCR, murders have reduced to 1993 levels after a 25% increase. 

(ref Home Office UK)

Their murders have always been low, not due to gun control, and strict gun control didn’t reduce the murders, much less the violence, such a consistent trend in gun ban countries.

Lets compare England to US 2011(rate fallen/risen since 1991)

England 987,666 Violent Crime / 63,181,775 x 100,000 = 1,583.21 per 100k (78.67%)

US 1,203, 506 Violent Crime /311,591,917 X 100,000  =383.6 per 100k (-49.04%)

England 818,301 Assault / 63,181,775 x 100,000 = 1,295.15 per 100k (-36.15%)

US 751,131 Assault /311,591,917 X 100,000  = 241.06 per 100k (-44.36%)

England 77,684 Robbery / 63,181,775 x 100,000 = 122.95 per 100k (32.9%)

US 354,396 Robbery /311,591,917 X 100,000  =113.73 per 100k  (-58.31%)

England 54,919 Rape / 63,181,775 x 100,000 =  86.92 per 100k (2.23%)

US 83,425 Rape /311,591,917 X 100,000  = 26.77 per 100k (-36.59%)

England 638 murder / 63,181,775 x 100,000 =  1.01 per 100k (-30.9%)

US 14,612 Murder /311,591,917 X 100,000  = 4.69 per 100k (-31.1%)

England 60 Murder w gun / 63,181,775 x 100,000 =  .095 per 100k (114%)

US 9,982 Murder w gun /311,591,917 X 100,000  = 3.17 per 100k (-52.51%)

Now the real problem irving has is showing how little Englands violent crime rates have fallen during their gun ban years, vs the US which has added 42% more firearms in law abiding civilians hands, but whose violent crime has fallen.

Man how is it that England, with 1/200th of our civilian owned firearms, can’t reduce their violent crime like the US did during the same time frame, while the US added another 42% in guns in law abiding civilians hands!

So much for less guns in law abiding civilians hands = less violence BS

So much for more guns in law abiding civilians hands = more violence BS

3 months, 3 weeks ago on Conversation @


Per FBI UCR & CDC in 1991 24,700 murders, consistent % where firearms used is 67.8% =16,747 murders by illegal use of firearm, 15,383 suicides by firearms, 657 justifiable homicides, 1,463 accidental firearms deaths =34,250 deaths where firearms were used

2011 14,612 murders 67.7% used a firearm = 9,892, 591 justifiable homicides, 835 accidental deaths, 19,766 suicides = 31,084 deaths where a firearm was used.

Since 1991 to 2011, that is a reduction in…..

Totals / Rate

Violent Crime -37.04% / -49.04%

Murder w gun -41.31% / -52.51%

Rape -21.73% / -36.59% 

Robbery -48.47% / -58.31%

Assault -31.26% /-44.36%

Accidental deaths -41.9% / -52.14%

Amazing how those are the highest total reductions of ANY country in the world during that time!

So explain again how since 1991 there has been a 42% increase in firearms in civilian hands there hasn’t been a 42% increase in violence or suicide?

1991 suicide rate 12.2 per 100k people, if increased by 42% = 17.3 per 100k people

2010 suicide rate 11.9 per 100k people

3 months, 3 weeks ago on Conversation @


Oh darn, here is just a sample of the countries, all of whom have strict gun control, and their murder rates by illegal use of a gun, care to do the 206 countries in the following link?

Rate per 100k people

Honduras 68.4

El Salvador 39.9

Jamiaca 39.4

Venezuela 39

Guatemala 34.8

Columbia 27.1

Brazil 18.1

South Africa 17

Dominican Republic 16.3

Panama 16.1

Ecuador 12.7

Mexico 10

Paraguay 7.3

Haiti 6.09

Nicaragua 5.9

USA 3.6

3 months, 3 weeks ago on Conversation @



Based only on reported justifiable homicides…


Rate of violent crime reported involving a gun 26.8 (1990-2012 FBI UCR)

11,474,391 defensive gun uses (avg.per year 220,661)

35,368,382 people defended (avg. per year 680,161)

1,131,788 murders prevented (avg. per year 21,765)

6,507,782 injuries prevented (avg. per year, 125,149)

Oh wait, based on just FBI DATA we are UNDERCOUNTING how many murder and injuries are prevented…hmmm!

Cost saved by law abiding civilians armed self defense!

Jens Ludwig, an avid anti gun professor claimed gun violence cost the US $100 Billion a year in 2000 report using the whack-a-loons logic of basing their stimation on how much the public would be willing to pay to eliminate gun violence at 100 million households, or $1,000 dollars apiece, how stupid can one be, well guess the anti gunturds do continually demonstrated how stupid they truly are!

Since these quacks can’t disprove that the 97.3% of killings are by career criminals, gang members, suicider and doemstic violence abusers, it is safe to assume that the massive costs to the public are the direct result of criminal acts.

Yet all he and the CDC proposes affects the law abiding, such is the circle jerk of their illogic to blame all that on the law abiding gun owners to begin with, how rude and uncivil.

Now lets look at what the PHANTOM average cost is as referenced in Ludwig’s interesting one sided biased study.

Now lets put more realistic $ numbers to the equation. So assuming emergency room care for each death and lost income of one year at $63,600, we can calculate approximately how much law abiding civilians have saved the public since 1960.

So assuming emergency room care for each injury and ongoing health care afterwards, but no data on how to add in lost wages (avg. age dependent to each incident), will leave that out for the moment = $50,000

Totals 1960-2012

Law abiding civilians

Murders Prevented: 1,131,788 = $2,087,275,125,883 saved

Injuries prevented: 6,507,782 = $1,067,305,771,958 saved

Criminals/gangs/crazies/domestic violence abusers

Murders: 482,794 = $859,307,807,299 cost incurred on public

Injuries: 2,896,762 = $120,532,214,103 cost incurred on

Suicide by illegal use of a gun

Deaths: 372,584 = $2,743,319,039 cost incurred to public

Injuries: 37,258 = $274,331,094 cost incurred to public

Accidental Firearm Discharge

Deaths: 54,019 = $$657,003,517 cost incurred to public

Injuries: 100,313 = $1,220,055,532 cost incurred to public

Benefit to public

Injuries prevented: 7,639,570 = $3,154,580, 897,842

Cost to public by criminals/suicides/accidents

Injuries: 3,943,730 = $984,734,731,394

Cost analysis

So law abiding gun owners provided a cost benefit to the public of 

+$3,154,580,897,842 Self defense saves lives cost benefit

-$984,734,731,934Bad guys cost 

+$2,169,846,166,448 Trillion dollars cost benefit to the public of law abiding gun owners self defense actions.

Amazing how law abiding armed self defense prevented murders and injuries that double the number of people killed and injured by career criminals, gang members, suiciders, crazies, domestic violence abusers and accidental deaths.

3 months, 3 weeks ago on Conversation @



Lets see the video of a gun loading, aiming and firing itself, oh wait, only the insane believe that, go see a shrink sunshine!

Cras are registered for tax purposes alone and are not an affirmed right, another epic fail by a crazy lefty!

Do I need the governments permission to buy a car? No.

Do I need to buy the car from only certain people with licenses to sell cars? No.

Can I buy as many cars as I want each week/month/year. Yes

Can I buy small cars, big cars, slow cars, fast cars, cars that look dangerous? Yes

Can I buy Hummers virtually like the troops use? Yes.

Do I have to wait from 5 to 15 days to pick up my car. No

If I traded in one car for a newer model do I still have to wait five to ten days to pick the new one up. No

Can I modify my car to allow more fuel, more performance, or better cornering. Yes

Would I have to turn over to the government without compensation some models of automobiles that might be banned years after I buy them. No

Do I need a license to buy a car? No

(in most states)

Can I buy a car at age 16? Yes.

Are driving lessons mandated in most high schools? Yes

Can I buy a car from anyone in any state? Yes.

Can I sell my car to anyone in any state? Yes

Can convicted felons buy, own or drive a car. Yes

In some places (e.g. NYC or New Jersey) would I first need a permit to buy from the police department which sometimes takes up to 2 years to obtain. No

In some cities (e.g. Washington D.C.) would I have to store your car partially disassembled. No

Do I need to register a car that I own? No (as long as I keep it on my own property)

Do I need a background check or waiting period to buy a car? No

Is my car held responsible if I misuse it? No

Would failure to register my car be a federal felony (prevents me from owning another one). No

Do I need to "safe store" my car even though many are stolen and used for criminal purposes? No

Will I lose my driver's license if I violate the law with my car? Most likely not

Can I legally drive my car into any state/city in the nation with every jurisdiction honoring my registration/license? Yes

Shall I go on? Or do you really, really want to treat guns like cars?

3 months, 3 weeks ago on Conversation @


So armed self defense from murderous drug cartels is vigilantism, ROTFLMFAO, ROTFLMFAO, the media will claim pedophilia is normal and healthy and does no harm to children!

6 months, 1 week ago on Anti-cartel vigilantes reject disarming in Mexico standoff


1,007 deaths/injuries in 63 gun free zone mass shootings since 1982 avg. 16.08 per incident


53 deaths/injuries in 19 incidents in gun free zones since 1991 where armed self defense occured, avg. 2.65 per incident!


30 plus years trying it the anti gun nuts way isnt working, and armed self defense had it occured in those 63 gun free zone incidents where no defense occurred, could have prevented up to 843 deaths/injuries!


We challenge the anti gun nuts to go to the families of those 1,007 victims, look them in they eye, and say you supported disarming their family members when the data clearly shows armed self defense could have saved uo to 843 people from being injured!


My money bet is they dont make it out of the 3rd home before being beaten to death!



10 months, 1 week ago on Guns and coffee  : Rutland Herald Online



So sad you have no proof, much less government proof to support your claim, otherwise you would post it. LOL!

Go wave your magic fairy wand and magic fairy dust elsewhere, sane people dont believe you!

10 months, 4 weeks ago on Prosecute those failing gun checks


@IHateTheGop @chuck333

Will repeat the information from above since it apparently takes you 3 or 4 times to understand facts you cant refute.

Lets identify who exactly is responsible for the majority of that violence first.

For several decades, studies have been conducted on crime and causalities by various bodies including major universities, criminologists and even the U.S. Department of Justice. These studies have found that approximately 80% of all crime is committed by 20% of all criminals. Some of the studies have provided slightly different numbers but all of them have found that a small group of criminals commit a vastly disproportionate number of crimes than their peers.(Wolfgang et al ., 1972; Petersilia et al ., 1978; Williams, 1979; Chaiken  and Chaiken, 1982; Greenwood with Abrahamse, 1982, and Martin and Sherman,1986).

Recidivism rates being over 40% as well!

2.7 mil prisoners

1.4 mil active gang members

2.5-3.5 mil active criminals

1.043 mil plus open felony warrants

Hence add in the career criminals.

CDC -Suicidal people speak for them-selves as suicide is a felony.

Shall we review police firearm discharge reports in Chicago and NYC where between 76-80% of those involved in shootings, both shooter and injured were both involved in criminal activity at the time of the incident.,,

Yeah, review of all the govt. data above shows over 92% of all killings by illegal use of a firearm are committed by career criminals, gang members, suiciders & crazies w approximately 50% of the remainder due to domestic violence incidents. A sane person would normally address the largest problem first don’t you agree?

Oh wait, you arent sane, my bad!

10 months, 4 weeks ago on Prosecute those failing gun checks


@IHateTheGop @RLEmery 

That the best you got in your koolaide delerium, so sad!

10 months, 4 weeks ago on Prosecute those failing gun checks


@AntiGov Geez, govt. facts are made up, PROVE IT!

10 months, 4 weeks ago on Prosecute those failing gun checks



Since registration by law doesnt apply to criminals, and by history been proven to not affect violent crime in the least, then explain why it is needed?

11 months ago on Prosecute those failing gun checks


@CarmineD @Victor_Eismine

Amazing how in 1986 ER Dr Kellerman presented a study to the New England Journal of Medicine  

This was the 43 times more likely study proven to be a lie. 

Well, see in the academic world, one submits the data for peer review so that your hypothesis can be verified, or debunked. Funny, Dr. Kellerman didnt provide that data for 4 years, hmmmm, why would he have done such a thing? Afterall his results clealry claimed guns were a disease?  

Then when he did provide the data, it had missing data, e.g. he removed every incident of valid self defense as that would change his predetermined desired results! 

Not to mention he had glaring holes in his methodology, refusing to acknowledge the criminal life style many of the surveyed indivudals led, the drug dealing, theft rings, etc, etc, etc they participated in as a lifestyle. 

So since Kellerman decided that exercising ones 2A is a disease (Epidimology) and didnt seperate between criminal & law abiding and his blatant refusal to allow independent review of his data for 4 years, then the obvious intentional manipulation of said data to reach a desired result, and the results being disproven, the studies were blatant academic fraud, blatant lies. The CDC refused to discontinue producing such politcially motivated junk science so in turn they got spanked by congress for lying.  

You know it is a pretty blatant lie when even congress critters paddles your backside! 

Sadly it appears polticial ideology still carries more weight today with the CDC still, rather than trying to show real root causes of violence, you know, greed, lust, avarice, poverty, gangs, drug & alcohol abuse, broken family unit, 1 momma w 8 kids & 8 different daddies..... 

The newest study put out just this year, also by Dr Kellerman, intentionally did not include District of Columbia data (among other things), we are on to his false tricks and would tear his methodology to pieces cause he is too stupid to change to method that would provide some credibility to his position, but then again, antis aren't endeared with much in the way of common sense, and amazingly if one does include the D.C. data, his results don’t show correlation. 

One who actually wants to find the truth wouldn’t do such a thing, but Kellerman is not interested in the actual truth, only to sell his agenda! 

Then this 3rd fake science study this last February, only included guns in suicides when one must look at the actual number of suicides attempted to ascertain an effect on the population. 

See, we can go to ANY country where strict gun controls are implemented, and show EVERYONE how the number of suicide ATTEMPTS didnt decrease after they implemented strict gun control. so sad. 

Yeah, so sad that the 1st amendment allows such pathological lies to be passed off as science, when it is junk science, a lie!

So start including the benefits, the numbers of lives saved each year, or be proven liars over and over again, your choice!

11 months ago on Prosecute those failing gun checks



So what does that 2% actually correlate to the number of shootings and deaths prevented, do tell?

Guns were only used in 26.14% of all violent crimes reported in 2011 per FBI UCR database.

So since multiple USDOJ studies show that 85% of the time a gun is used no shots are fired so using 15% to identify how many times shots are fired = 3.921% shots are fired.

But then we see how police at best, hit their target 15% of the time so 3.921 % x 15% = .0059% of times is the target hit, hmmmm.

532,911 stops x 2% = 10,658 bad guys had guns

10,658 x .0059% = 63 total injuries possibly saved

So since there is 1 death out of every 7 injuries that is 9 deaths and 54 injuries.

Then of course, we already see from many NYC Firearms Discharge reports how 80% of shootings, both shooter and injured, were both involved in criminal activities at the time of the shooting.

So reality rounded up is there were 2 deaths and 12 injured innocents potentially saved by the Terry stops as lets get serious who really cares about bad guys shooting each other eh!

Man, how much does that equate to in dollar figures as that is an awful of manpower to prevent 2 murders and 12 injuries of innocents per year in NYC, LOL!

36,000 police in NYC, the largest police force of any modern city in the world, a police officer at any given time within a 1/4 sq mile of 384 sq miles of city, LOL!

Yet violent crime is on the rise again in NYC.

532,911 Terry stops / 36,000 police = 14.01 terry stops per police officer.

Oh wait, see only about 50% of those are actually walking the beat cops, so it is closer to 28 Terry stops per active duty cops!

14 total injuries /532,911 = .0000263 lives saved per Terry stop

1 mil cops in the US = ((14.01 X 1 MIL)* .0000263 ) /7 = 368 total injuries prevented = 53 murders prevented and 315 injuries prevented of innocent lives.

LOL, of course we can using just government data demonstrate  that law abiding gun owners since 1960 have using arms for self defense, prevented over 581,000 murders and prevented over 3.334 mil injuries.

In 2010 that was over 9,225 murders prevented and over 54,000 injuries prevented, hmmmmm.

So explain again, with any logic, how Terry stops, will prevent the bad guys from doing all their other killings by hand guns, when 7,914 murders were commited by career criminals, gang members eh?

Come on, put a $ number on those as by the actual government evidence, law abiding civilians defending themselves will save 174 times more people than the cops.

So indeed, if it saves just one life it, in this case CIVILIANS SELF DEFENSE by use of a gun, is 174 times more likely to save a person, than the $100's of million spent on Terry stops were all the cops in the US doing them, is indeed justified!


11 months ago on Prosecute those failing gun checks



Yet I demonstrated sarcasm multiple times already, and your the one complaining, LOL!

11 months ago on Prosecute those failing gun checks



2011 Pop. 311,591,917 Violent Crime 1,203,564 r(rate) 386.3 Murders 14,612 (rate) 4.7  Robbery 354,396 (rate) 113.7 Aggravated Assault 751,131 (rate) 241.1

Information collected regarding type of weapon showed that firearms were used in 67.7 percent of the nation’s murders, 41.3 percent of robberies, and 21.2 percent of aggravated assaults. 

9,892 Murders

146,366 Robbery

159,240 Aggravated assault

315,498 total reported crimes in 2011 involved a firearm

But as our own government recognizes that per USDOJ National Victimization reports, as do other countries......Violent crimes not reported 2011 = 79.27% not reported

315,498 - 9,829 as all murders got reported = 305,606 / 20.73% = 1% x 100 = total number of violent crimes involving a gun in 2011 = 1,474,221 violent crimes in 2011 involving a firearm, out of 5.805 mil total violent crimes committed in 2011.

As noted below, since our own government recognizes that over 92% of all those murders by illegal use of a gun are committed by career criminals, gang members, suiciders, crazies w about 50% of the remainder being domestic violence incidents, why is you anti gun extremists refuse to enforce the current gun control laws and fix those failures to enforce?

The law states quite clearly, 85% of current gun control laws dont apply as a prosecutable charge against the bad guys, but in a circle jerk of idiocy, you anti gun extremists continue to claim it does.

What about these irrefutable government facts is so hard for you leftists to acknowledge or undertsand eh?

Are you truly that stupid, that insane, or are you exactly what we know you to be, kommies of the lowest order, do tell!

11 months ago on Prosecute those failing gun checks



So as noted below, why are you so against enforcing the existing laws, based on your actions or should we say LACK OF ACTION on current law, we shouldnt have any law anyway!

11 months ago on Prosecute those failing gun checks


@KillerB @RLEmery 

Another play on words, entitlement eloi are just like cows, the government milking them constantly for votes and blind obedience. 

Cant call such entitlement eloi pigs, as pigs are only butchered and eaten once, cows keep producing milk!

Sheeple works also as they can be sheared each year and some eaten!

11 months ago on Prosecute those failing gun checks



Because it really doesnt accomplish much when one looks at the data!

In May 2012, the New York Civil Liberties Union released a detailed analysis of the NYPD’s

The 532,911 stops in 2012 (a decrease of 22 percent from 2011) were spread unevenly

amongst the city’s 76 precincts, with the 75th Precinct (East New York) leading the city

with 24,408 stops. Setting aside the Central Park Precinct (22nd), the 17th Precinct (Kipps

Bay) had the fewest stops at 1,331.

· In 71 out of 76 precincts, black and Latino New Yorkers accounted for more than 50

percent of stops, and in 36 precincts they accounted for more than 90 percent of stops. In

the 10 precincts with the lowest black and Latino populations (such as the 6th Precinct in

Greenwich Village), blacks and Latinos accounted for more than 70 percent of stops in

six of those precincts.

· Young black and Latino men were the targets of a hugely disproportionate number of

stops. Though they account for only 4.7 percent of the city’s population, black and Latino

males between the ages of 14 and 24 accounted for 40.6 percent of stops in 2012. The

number of stops of young black men neared the entire city population of young black

men (133,119 as compared to 158,406). More than 90 percent of young black and Latino

men stopped were innocent.

· Though frisks are to be conducted only when an officer reasonably suspects the person

has a weapon that might endanger officer safety, 55.8 percent of those stopped were

frisked. Of those frisked, a weapon was found only 2 percent of the time.

Of course what the bad guys have taken to doing, is renting out gatts, picking them up from predetermined drop spots or passing it off like a pick pocket does when 5-0 approaches, all sorts of ways to avoid da man!

11 months ago on Prosecute those failing gun checks



Amazing how technologically inferior opponents are still fighting th US military machine 12 years later, oh how can that be!

11 months ago on Prosecute those failing gun checks


@SamRock @RLEmery 

Why, the NSA cant catch 20 mil illegla aliens, cant catch any of the 1.043 mil people wanted on open felony warrants in the US, cant help the police solve the 91.94% of violent crimes committed but not solved each year, cant do anything about the $52 billion in illict drugs coming across from Mexico, you really need to get a clue on that sunshine!

As for the lefties, they dont care about the bill of rights, their teensy ego's wont allow them to give ANYTHING UP as anytime you infer they do, they get rude and obnoxious demonstrating their 7 times inherently more violent personalities, they dont care about reducing violence, so why not use SARCASM to ridicule them eh?

11 months ago on Prosecute those failing gun checks


@KillerB @RLEmery 

You misunderstand the play on words, and the udder sarcasm it means, you should take two steps back, and look at the cake the antis like to jam down our throats, being jammed back down their throats!

Get a clue!

11 months ago on Prosecute those failing gun checks


Haynes vs. U.S. 390 U.S. 85 1968 where the US Supreme Court ruled 8-1 in favor of Haynes that any law requiring a felon to self incriminate themselves and violate their 5th amendment rights was not enforceable as a charge for prosecution.

Hence criminals don't have to follow 85% of the existing gun control laws that do so, e.g. your stolen weapons, registrations, BACKGROUND CHECKS etc....

Uh how does a law, that dont apply to the bad guy, reduce violence by the bad guy eh koolaide lovers?

Oh athst right, it doesn't!

Amazing how the criminals don't have to obey these laws yet only law-abiding citizens do? This just validates the hypocrisy that laws affect only the felons!

After all, 22,417 gun control laws and we see how effective a piece of legislation is at stopping violence because if it did, there wouldn't be ANY VIOLENT CRIME. 

11 months ago on Prosecute those failing gun checks


In the adult world, the word "COMPROMISE" means that each side in an issue, gives something up they value in order to meet in the middle and resolve the issue. 

So the question to the anti's is rather simple 2 parts: 

1) what have you given up in compromise that you valued for all the previous 22,417 gun control laws implemented? 

2) what right do you value that you intend to give up for these new proposed laws? 

Some fantasy made up right doesn't count in the real world, a right affirmed in the BOR and the reason must be measurable in real math and GOVT. evidence and not in some wacked out Kenyesian fantasy math! 

Since you antis don’t value the 2A, you can’t lie and say that is what you give up. 

After all, if we who are pro-gun give up in compromise the same as anti gun nuts have, which is nothing, how then can we in any sense of the word be called unreasonable? 

Love how the antis refuse to compromise and give up anything they value to get gun control.

In fact history has show everyone how words, the freedom of speech, can be abused. We see how religious beliefs have been the greatest intiator of wars in all of history, one person god having a bigger tallywhacker than the other guys god, over 800 million killed.

Then we see how the next most dangerous idea, based on a collection of words to form a belief called socilaism, has led to over 200 million deaths in the last century or so, because many civilians resisted such attempts.

So based on irrefutable history words and beliefs, allowed by the use of freedom of speech, is the greatest danger to safety of our children.

In the spirit of compromise, we suggest the Antis give upsome of their 1st amendment right.

They would be required to be licensed every 4 years.

They would be open to random inspections by the govt.

They will be required to pay a tax for everytime they use their freedom of speech in a public forum.

A paper work error in their submitting for more use of said right will be construed as a felony.

Letting a family member borrow their portion of that right, will require a background check before they receive permission to exercise their right.

They will not be allowed to lie in their exercise of their right.

Three time offenders will be deemed incurable and jailed for life. 

Every different media forum they wish to exercise their right will require government permission, and further taxation.

Any and all electronic devices will be registered and audited at any time the government so chooses.

If one person in a household abuses that right and breaks the law, everyone in that family and household loses their rights and are guilty!

See, you really wouldnt be giving up your right, you would just be infrgined upon a little, this year, a little more the next year, and the year after, and the year after.

Thats a pretty good start, any more REASONABLE suggestions for laws at controlling the most dangerous tool of all WORDS AND IDEAS, let us know as how can the left disagree with such reasonable restrictions!

But its for the safety of the children.

11 months ago on Prosecute those failing gun checks



Lets identify who exactly is responsible for the majority of that violence first.

For several decades, studies have been conducted on crime and causalities by various bodies including major universities, criminologists and even the U.S. Department of Justice. These studies have found that approximately 80% of all crime is committed by 20% of all criminals. Some of the studies have provided slightly different numbers but all of them have found that a small group of criminals commit a vastly disproportionate number of crimes than their peers.(Wolfgang et al ., 1972; Petersilia et al ., 1978; Williams, 1979; Chaiken  and Chaiken, 1982; Greenwood with Abrahamse, 1982, and Martin and Sherman,1986).

Recidivism rates being over 40% as well!

2.7 mil prisoners

1.4 mil active gang members

2.5-3.5 mil active criminals

1.043 mil plus open felony warrants

Hence add in the career criminals.

CDC -Suicidal people speak for them-selves as suicide is a felony.

Shall we review police firearm discharge reports in Chicago and NYC where between 76-80% of those involved in shootings, both shooter and injured were both involved in criminal activity at the time of the incident.,,

Yeah, review of all the govt. data above shows over 92% of all killings by illegal use of a firearm are committed by career criminals, gang members, suiciders & crazies w approximately 50% of the remainder due to domestic violence incidents. 

Of course when one reviews FBI data, one should recognize, that the FBI doesnt identify, if the person committing the crime, was a felon or one of the other 9 categories of people identified in 1968 Federal Gun Control Law on having lost their 2A rights.

Even funnier being that since most of the bad guys were shooting each other, they knew each other, LOL!

A sane person would normally address the largest problem first don’t you agree?

Oh wait, anti gun zealots arent sane, my bad!

11 months ago on Prosecute those failing gun checks


@IHateTheGop @RLEmery 

Oh wait, we have lists of names to, but you people arent smart enough to understand that!

But apparently you are really hurting we see, LOL, koolaide lover!

11 months ago on Prosecute those failing gun checks


Amazing how the BATF refuses to prosecute more than 1% of those rejected by the background checks, (1.83 mil since 1997)

2010, 44 successfully prosecuted out of 139,651 total rejections

2009, 32 successfully prosecuted out of 129,357 total rejections

2008, 31 successfully prosecuted out of 135,933 total rejections

2007, 39 successfully prosecuted out of 128,277 total rejections

2006, 62 successfully prosecuted out of 134,442 total rejections

Even more amazing is the BATF refusal to do anything about the 95.52% of bad guys who dont even attempt to buy from a lizensed source to begin with (2,977,577 in 2010 alone)

Even more amazing is how the BATF refuses to allow civilian access to the NICS for private sales.

Even more amazing is how the BATF let over 297,559  straw buyers pass the background checks to buy over 446,363 guns in 2010.

But since the govt. refuses to fund and resource input of felons & crazies into the NICS database (4.865 mil out of over 31 mil crazies & felons in the US).

Then of course the refusal to catch the 1.043 mil plus people wanted on open felony warrants per FBI NCIC of which 50% are probably as severely mentally ill as are 50% of the 2.7 mil prisoners per forensic psychiatrists!

LOL, man the government really sucks at enforcing the existing laws!

11 months ago on Prosecute those failing gun checks



Mailing lists without registration numbers and such, geez, you really do guzzle the koolaide!

11 months ago on Prosecute those failing gun checks


Another Jospeh Goebbels prodigy in the making, claiming more support than there really is. In the near 45 days since the defeat of the useless as teets on a boar hog legislation S649 that didnt do anything to actually affect the bad/crazy guys committing the crimes, we have seen 14 gun control rallies in major cities where gun control is supposed to be strong, yet from the pictures, we cant even see 1,200 total people in support of the Nazi gun control effort. Near 30 million people in those 14 cities and you cant even get more than .00004% to show up, when you are claiming over 50% in support of a bill, which they didnt even read?


All while the S649 wouldnt fix the BATF current refusal to prosecute more than 1% of the 1.83 mil rejected since 1997, do anything about the 95.52% (2,977,559 bad guys in 2010 of which 26,423 were crazies) who didnt even attempt to buy from a licensed source to begin with, doesnt do anything about the 297,577 straw buyers who passed the background checks in 2010 of which only 44 total were prosecuted out of the 139,651 rejected, 26 being  straw buyers, 11 felons, 7 domestic violence abusers.


Lest we remind you how the BATF refuses to allow civilian access to the NICS to begin with.


Lest we forget how the govt. doesnt want to input mentally ill into the NICS (only 2.82 mil out of 23.15 mil mentally ill in US) or felons (2.045 mil out of more than 8.643 mil felons), much less the 1.043 mil people wanted on open felony warrants of which mental health experts note that 50% of current 2.7 mil prisoners are mentally ill, think that rate has changed on those wanted on those open felony warrants, do tell.


All while ignoring the most basic of laws, that per Haynes vs US 390, 85, 1968 which affirmed the 5th amendment, that 85% of gun control laws (those requiring identification) dont legally apply to bad guys as a prosecutable charge, you know registrations, background checks, licenses..... as it violates their 5th amendment right of no self incrimination.


Of course seeing how the legalese weasel words of a registration were added into S649 as the AG was written as not being allowed to create a registry, whereas before THE LAW  was all encompassing. See that is how it begins, an agency not reporting to the AG accidently begins the creation of a registry and then when caught, points out that by law, it was only illegal for the AG to do so, and then begins the legal dance. Where upon another agency that doesnt report to the AG, begins working on said registration again, such that when the court cases come about after multiple years, the registry already exists. Of course failing to mention how the AG would then be responsible for prosecuting themselves, and we see how that worked out when Holder ran those guns to the cartels a couple years ago!


Canada $2 billion dollar plus registry, 52% compliance for pistols, less than 30% for long guns, that hasn’t solved one crime, has traced 47 firearms to prove, yes they were stolen, and the long gun portion of the registry was defunded in 2012, such a common trend.


CoBIS, a fired shell database implemented by MD, NJ, NY 1997 at $4 mil per year cost to tax payers, traced 2 firearms as stolen, solved no violent crimes nor prevented them, also defunded in summer 2012 after $44 mil cost to taxpayers for verifying yep, them firearms was stolen, how pathetic and useless registrations are.


So when one actually digs into the details of that poorly hidden registration attempt called S649, one doesnt wonder any more why supporters of that are called liars!

1 year, 1 month ago on Dynamic on guns is changing  : Rutland Herald Online


 @onetenther  @Brian Barrett So a law, based on a lie, that infringes upon the law abiding exercise of said right is perfectly legal in a jumble of bueracractic hypocrisy that doesnt do one substantiated thing to reduce violence by the crazies & felons, got it!

1 year, 5 months ago on I'm broadcasting LIVE right now on Mixlr. "Tenther...


 @onetenther So since gay people have a higher incidence of AID's and I am afraid of AID's, all gay people should be segrergated from the rest of the population because of my unsubstantiated fear is indeed justifiably legal to infrigne on everyone elses rights, got it!

1 year, 5 months ago on I'm broadcasting LIVE right now on Mixlr. "Tenther...